I just got a M3 Max and I can’t use it

[jafd]

There is some really niche proprietary software that I use daily for my work that only runs on windows. There are no alternatives to this software and probably less than 500 people in the world use it and the developers will not update it. They haven’t made any changes since 2015.

Since you're mentioning that it's CPU- and memory-intensive, your particular case is just screaming that you need to get something like a desktop machine that can put up with sustained load, give it as much RAM as it will take, and connect to it from your Macbook using RDP or something.

The 12th gen Intel Core (13th is only marginally better) and recent Ryzens are eyewateringly better than whatever was available back in 2019. And it's likely you can get a system with an i7 and as much RAM as it will fit for a fraction of the M3's price.

 

[jafd]

Without knowing, I would suggest you look into using WINE (a good commercial version would be CodeWeaver’s Crossover) as a possibility over a full VM.

Won't fly on a different CPU architecture, end of story.

 

[bdog1234]

Some added twists are this software requires a sentinel usb dongle to work. I have got that part to work but worry about getting it going with some of these other emulators. The instrument also is capable of tons of things but only the ones you pay for are unlocked and the software somehow passes this information to the instrument.

 

[msackey]

That beta is not taking more users, but Microsoft Remote Desktop is available now and works fine.

‎Windows App

‎Windows App for Mac (previously named Microsoft Remote Desktop) is your gateway to securely connect to Windows including remote PCs and admin-provided virtual apps and desktops across Windows 365, Azure Virtual Desktop, Dev Box and Remote Desktop Services. Embrace the simplicity of a unified...

apps.apple.com

Can also use Chrome Remote Desktop.

 

[seek3r]

Won't fly on a different CPU architecture, end of story.

Yes, it does, leverages rosetta. WINE can run x86 apps on ARM Macs

Hell MR covered this when codeweavers announced it almost exactly 3 years ago https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/18/run-windows-software-on-m1/

 

[Wando64]

and if they haven't updated it since 2015 it won’t be.

I am using MS Money on Windows 11 ARM in Parallels on a M1 Mac.
MS Money was discontinued in 2009 and I am certain my version is older than that.

 

[0339327]

I am not sure if this is the right place for this or not but I am really bummed out. I have been using a 2019 MBP that I bought new and it has been great. There is some really niche proprietary software that I use daily for my work that only runs on windows. There are no alternatives to this software and probably less than 500 people in the world use it and the developers will not update it. They haven’t made any changes since 2015.

Anyway I have used this software on my 2019 MBP with windows running on fusion and it works great and has for years. I got my new M3 Max and this software will not run on it. I tried parallels and fusion and it will not work.

I am so disappointed and am at a loss on what to do. I have been using Mac since 2012 for everything except for a couple windows only programs. The data that this one program uses is getting bigger and bigger with time and I really need a newer faster computer but I think I already have the fastest intel MBP.

It seems my options are either stick with my old 2019 MBP or switch over to a windows laptop. I am not all excited about that. I use this one program 30-40 hours a week and am constantly copying and pasting info to and from it. I do everything aside from this program on the Mac side.

1. You can’t expect this be to Apple’s problem. Apple isn’t into making computers for Windows.

2. I do agree that Apple has been getting more stingy on basically everything lately; and it’s very unsettling. However, software for Windows from 2015 is beyond the norm.

3. I have a similar issue with some software we use that isn’t compatible with Mac. We now have several Windows machines for those use scenarios.

4. I’ve been very displeased with Apple software lately and have been considering supporting an organizational move to Windows. We are likely going to wait another year or so to see if Apple gets their act together with the maturation of Apple Silicone. If not, buh bye.

 

[MauiPa]

Ummm. Lesson learned, if you need a windows only program, get a computer that runs windows. Personally, I would say not upgraded since 2015, time to move on. That is called obsolete, guess if it still works, ok, but for how long?

 

[cheesygrin]

I have some experience working with this type of software for my customers.

Firstly, I would say that, if this software is as crucial to your business as it seems to be, then you NEED FULL SOFTWARE SUPPORT from the manufacturer.

From what you’ve described, the manufacturer does not support using virtualised environments on a Mac. They design their software to run on a PC. It sounds like the only time they will update the software is if there is some change to Windows that stops it from working, which would force them to do maintenance. They don’t care whether the software runs in a Mac virtualised environment or not, as the user base isn’t big enough to worry about it, and the function so specialist that it warrants a dedicated PC to run it anyway.

So my recommended solution would definitely be to buy a high spec PC (not laptop for power/heat reasons) that can happily sit there permanently running the software, as the designer intended.

Microsoft Remote Desktop is an excellent utility that allows you to view the remote computer full screen, swipe between full screen desktops just as if virtualised, copy and paste between desktops, and all the while offload the CPU workload to the dedicated PC, keeping your Mac running faster for your other office tasks.

 

[rgeneral]

In this case it seems you have 3 options:
1. Keep using the 2019 until you can't, and then review again when it fails to be usable for you.
2. Switch entirely to Windows.
3. Get a Windows computer but connect to it using Microsoft Remote Desktop from the Mac. This would still give you clipboard support and let you maintain access to the Mac apps you're currently using.

Why not just boot camp the 2019. Then RDP into that. No need to buy a windows computer

 

[EmotionalSnow]

Hello bdog1234,


I can imagine that the situation is quite frustrating and I sympathize.

However, the solution to your problem is quite straightforward. Please understand that I am not trying to
give a simplistic answer!

Just buy a sufficiently powerful Windows machine (laptop computer or desktop) and be done with the issue. That is certainly what I would do. Many problems have solutions which can be purchased. Life is too short to be worrying about unnecessary things!

Forget about virtualization, remote access, etc. All these "solutions" are mere attempts at fitting a square peg in a round hole.

Good luck with resolving your problem.


richmlow

The only one trying to fit square pegs in a round hole is you. OP clearly stated that he would like to avoid having to switch from the Mac since he is very invested (not speaking in terms of money) into the Apple & Mac ecosystem.

To OP: The best solution I see is either continuing to use the 2019 MBP until it cannot do the job anymore and then getting a Windows machine you can remote into from a Mac (even if it's next to you in the truck) or not waiting for the Mac to die and making that switch right now.

Next best option is fully switching to Windows, and thereby giving up on the ecosystem.

 

[MrENGLISH]

I'm not sure why the software won't run in ARM Windows, that does seem strange. I too rely on some niche Windows x86 only software for my work (Sage Payroll) and I run it just fine in Parallels running Windows for ARM. I can't remember but there might be something you need to do for your Windows for ARM installations to enable x86 emulation, it's been a while since I set mine up.

I also rely on ARM Windows 11 via Parallels to run one particular program for work.

One thing I've noticed about ARM Windows is that drivers don't always play nice with it and that could be one of the issues OP is running into.

 

[ipaqrat]

Windows has just announced that windows will come as an app for iPads and macs. You’ll be able to run it that way somewhere next year. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-app/overview

Looks to me like "Windows App" is merely a matured version of HyperV with a matured thin client. Microsoft, dey own sefs, desribes it as "Gateway to Azure Virtual Desktop, Windows 365, Microsoft Dev Box, Remote Desktop Services, and remote PCs, securely connecting you to Windows devices and apps on a device of your choice." There's no solution that's not already available, compute/performance/connectivity wise. Just a new way to pay for service is all.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

At this point, it sounds like if you rely that heavily on the software just buy a solid workstation PC with Windows on it. Sounds like it will save you a significant amount of time (and money) just by doing this. Use your Mac for personal use or anything else you may do at work.

Simply using a more modern PC, you should see significant improvement in processing times with the data you are referring to. Intel Macs - especially the one you are using - are notorious for overheating and throttling with any bit of workload. You'd be far better off getting a Thinkpad with a better cooling system or your best bet is to get a decently powered desktop, load it up with RAM and get half your work week back.

I am not sure if this is the right place for this or not but I am really bummed out. I have been using a 2019 MBP that I bought new and it has been great. There is some really niche proprietary software that I use daily for my work that only runs on windows. There are no alternatives to this software and probably less than 500 people in the world use it and the developers will not update it. They haven’t made any changes since 2015.

Anyway I have used this software on my 2019 MBP with windows running on fusion and it works great and has for years. I got my new M3 Max and this software will not run on it. I tried parallels and fusion and it will not work.

I am so disappointed and am at a loss on what to do. I have been using Mac since 2012 for everything except for a couple windows only programs. The data that this one program uses is getting bigger and bigger with time and I really need a newer faster computer but I think I already have the fastest intel MBP.

It seems my options are either stick with my old 2019 MBP or switch over to a windows laptop. I am not all excited about that. I use this one program 30-40 hours a week and am constantly copying and pasting info to and from it. I do everything aside from this program on the Mac side.

Over the years I have been through some similar scenarios and they never went well. It sounds like your initial data collection process is growing and needing stronger hardware.
A) Your data collection step software being Win and unlikely to change suggests that what you need is a stronger Win box for that phase.
B) Apple clearly will not support your Win needs in the immediate future, if ever.

Step one IMO is to buy a strong modern Win box for the Win phase of your work. You clearly want/need to be speeding up that phase, and it is frankly nuts to rely on emulation/virtualization for enterprise-critical field work because when something breaks the vendors will always point fingers at your kludged software, even if the emulation is not at fault.

When something breaks at least you will be on strong footing, having applied best-available (Win) tech at the task. And you will have the hardware handy to deal with the break solution using either Mac or Win.

Step two is to get the processed data from the Win box into the rest of your world. One way is to just move to an all-Win operation. That sucks for many of us, so if you want to stay Mac then figure out how to move the data processed by the Win box to your Mac box; it is just data, right? MS Remote Desktop sounds promising, but I have not used it.

Regarding powering multiple laptops in the field, just buy a Honda generator fo $1k if your truck lacks the amperage. Or use Milwaukee batteries and the Milwaukee 110 volt inverter. Mac laptops charge with all kinds of power sources.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I had similar needs with CUDA and windows. I have a Linux/Windows AMD threadripper/ 4090 work station with 128 GB RAM. I had the workstation before Apple announced moving to AS. My 2019 MBP was one of the worst Macs I ever owned, too loud and ran hot. I have M1 Max 64 GB MBP 16 for past 2 years. I usually use Remote Desktop to connect to my work station if I need to run windows apps. My MBP is my main driver when I am on the road traveling.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Ummm. Lesson learned, if you need a windows only program, get a computer that runs windows. Personally, I would say not upgraded since 2015, time to move on. That is called obsolete, guess if it still works, ok, but for how long?

Lots of computer processes across the US (and the world) are far out of date. It is a huge vulnerability, but it is what it is for us one-person shops. Hence my recommendation to get a solid Win box for the first phase data collection/analysis.

 

[redpandadev]

You can try UTM (https://docs.getutm.app/installation/macos/) which will let you install an x86 version of Windows (emulated) on your M3 Max. Performance may or may not be any good. It probably won't be any better (and might be worse) than your 2019 - only real way is to try it. UTM uses QEMU and Apple's Virtualization frameworks as a backend. This at least eliminates one roadblock for you (Windows ARM and Microsoft's x86 layer appears to actually be the problem here, not the Mac).

 

[ChrisA]

I am not sure if this is the right place for this or not but I am really bummed out. I have been using a 2019 MBP that I bought new and it has been great. There is some really niche proprietary software that I use daily for my work that only runs on windows. There are no alternatives to this software and probably less than 500 people in the world use it and the developers will not update it. They haven’t made any changes since 2015.

Anyway I have used this software on my 2019 MBP with windows running on fusion and it works great and has for years. I got my new M3 Max and this software will not run on it. I tried parallels and fusion and it will not work.

I am so disappointed and am at a loss on what to do. I have been using Mac since 2012 for everything except for a couple windows only programs. The data that this one program uses is getting bigger and bigger with time and I really need a newer faster computer but I think I already have the fastest intel MBP.

It seems my options are either stick with my old 2019 MBP or switch over to a windows laptop. I am not all excited about that. I use this one program 30-40 hours a week and am constantly copying and pasting info to and from it. I do everything aside from this program on the Mac side.

Of course the old Windws software will not work on Apple Silicon. Anyone here could have told you that.

You only have one option as the developers will not update it. Keep and 2015 vntage Windows machine around FOREVER. Maybe buy a few of them while you still can as they will be really hard to find in 10 years. Be VERY careful when you update he Windows OS as a new OS might break the old software.

Either the above or you will have to start looking for an exit route..

My solution for running Windows 11 on my M2-Pro Mac is to run a virtual machine on a headless Linux PC. The PC is under a desk with no monitor attached. Then I use "Remote Desktop" to share the virtual machineonto my Mac. It works really well. 20 years from now I will still be able to run this same virtual machine on whateverhardware I happen to have. I will not have to keep an antique computer around. VMs are a great way to containerize a leggacy system. You just need a VM server on you network. VM servrs can be free, use you old Mac for that. Just close the lid and put it near you router connected by Ethernet and it can serve you old Windows apps to any screen, even an iPad.

When the old Intal Mac finally dies move the VM image to some new hardware.

Don't want to bother setting this up. Buy a subscription to a service that supplies virtaul Windows systems in the cloud.

 

[ChrisA]

The software is made by a company that makes some engineering type instruments that I use for work. The software interfaces with these instruments and processes the data they collect. The company is still in business and updates their instruments but their point of view is the software works so why change it.

The data processing part is pretty computer intensive. The last data set I did took about three hours to complete. If I could get this running on a faster computer it would greatly help me. Our current client wants reports delivered daily so I work all day collecting the data and then am up late at night processing the data.

Why not buy a really fast desktop PC? This is for work so the budget should be "whatever it takes" and then use Remote Desktop to run the Windows app on you Mac. If it really is taking till late night to process, then you can justify something MUCH more powerfull then an old MacBook.

In fact I do some experiments in Machine Learning and this can use up any amount of CPU time, up to days and weeks. So what most people do is go to Amazon, or Google and use a cloud server. I can rent hours on a server that costs $30,000. Have you thought about using a cloud service?

 

[richmlow]

The only one trying to fit square pegs in a round hole is you. OP clearly stated that he would like to avoid having to switch from the Mac since he is very invested (not speaking in terms of money) into the Apple & Mac ecosystem.

To OP: The best solution I see is either continuing to use the 2019 MBP until it cannot do the job anymore and then getting a Windows machine you can remote into from a Mac (even if it's next to you in the truck) or not waiting for the Mac to die and making that switch right now.

Next best option is fully switching to Windows, and thereby giving up on the ecosystem.

EmotionalSnow,


I was just offering my opinion on the simplest and quickest solution to this problem. Even your response supports my
suggestion.

Don't be so full of vitriol.


richmlow

 

[ignatius345]

[deleted]

 

[snak-atak]

So if the 2019 MBP is the end of the line which it appears it is this is a major fork In the road for me. For one if my MBP craps out I can’t just go buy a new one, and with Apple switching to the silicon chips it won’t be long before they phase out support for the intel Macs. Who knows how much time I have left but I wont be able to use this computer forever.

When I am at work I am staring at my computer all day long. I don’t ever touch my phone. I answer all my text messages on my computer. I use notes extensively with employees providing me information via shared notes from their phones that I see on my computer. I have find my open all the time to see where people are on the job site.On the personal side I use photos extensively. I have spent countless hours organizing in excess of 100k family photos dating back to scanned in ones from the 90s. I use Final Cut Pro and Compressor a lot. I use an iPad and iPhone and really like how everything is synced between them and my laptop.

it seems there would be so much I would lose switching to windows. Having two computers doesn’t seem too feasible either. I have windows running full screen on my Mac and swipe to switch back and forth between it and my Mac desktop. I do this back and forth hundreds if not thousands of times a day.

If the program is Windows native and your livelihood is that dependent on it, you shouldn’t fool around with workarounds. You should stick to what they support and get yourself a Windows pc that meets the software requirements.

If you REALLY want to run it on a Mac, then buy the pc and leave it running in a quiet corner of your office and RDP into it from your Mac.

 

[ipaqrat]

Thanks the second computer with Remote Desktop is interesting and I may give it try. While not impossible the added complication is all of this all the work is mobile. I am sitting my truck with my laptop connected to the instrument with a long cable during the day and then working on the data in my motel room at night. I could certainly get a windows laptop and hook it to my MBP but it wouldn’t be as elegant as a windows desktop machine sitting in the corner of the office. And no I couldn’t have it in the office and network in as many of the places we work are in the middle of no where with absolutely no cell or internet service. I guess the only thing I need to check is that the 110 outlet in my truck can power two laptops. I know I have tripped the breaker on it several times trying to plug other things in while my laptop was connected.

Sounds like you're working the patch... up in Alberta? Alaska? I kinda remember an oilfield instrumentation outfit's software some while ago... I was shocked it looked like they were still running it in Windows 7.

Sooo.... Once upon a time, back in the day, I had to support a few DOS and Win98 apps for a Three-Letter-Agency. But we had already moved on to Windows 2000 Pro and those little old apps just plain crashed. HOWEVER, I was pleasantly surprised to find that "Sequencing" the app within Microsoft's AppV (an app packager that Microsoft bought from an outfit called "SoftGrid").... SOMEHOW allowed the sequenced app to run under Windows 2000 Pro, even though the native code couldn't. This was a process of Abstraction and Portabalization.

So now I'm wondering if an app "Portabalizer" could bridge the gap to Windows ARM running in Parallels on your M3?? This is a real reach... but check out https://portableapps.com/platform/features. Their support pages mention something about WinARM support. There are several more platforms like it, you'll find, if the topic keeps you awake. And make backups, because it'll probably explode a bit.

NOW, you have to be SUPER DUPER aware that this process can introduce GINOURMOUS security risks, becuase you probably won't know for sure what these portabalizers do. And I'd guess [exxonchevronmobile??] would be unhappy if their ops got crowdsourced. In cybersecurity we make an effort to stomp on all portable apps, because they can be tricky to detect and monitor, and we don't like that. Not. At. All.

Frankly, just becuase of the work-life dependency, I'd get a bigger alternator for the truck, another inverter, and run a whole windows machine for your app. You can get a gaming-caliber rig for cheap this time of year, but you might not need a super-killer PC with fancy-pants graphics. Might need single-core ghz, rather than modern Performance/Efficience cores and GPUs.

 

[ChrisA]

I have some experience working with this type of software for my customers.

Firstly, I would say that, if this software is as crucial to your business as it seems to be, then you NEED FULL SOFTWARE SUPPORT from the manufacturer.

From what you’ve described, the manufacturer does not support using virtualised environments on a Mac. They design their software to run on a PC. It sounds like the only time they will update the software is if there is some change to Windows that stops it from working, which would force them to do maintenance. They don’t care whether the software runs in a Mac virtualised environment or not, as the user base isn’t big enough to worry about it, and the function so specialist that it warrants a dedicated PC to run it anyway.

So my recommended solution would definitely be to buy a high spec PC (not laptop for power/heat reasons) that can happily sit there permanently running the software, as the designer intended.

Microsoft Remote Desktop is an excellent utility that allows you to view the remote computer full screen, swipe between full screen desktops just as if virtualised, copy and paste between desktops, and all the while offload the CPU workload to the dedicated PC, keeping your Mac running faster for your other office tasks.

Loks like it was a mistake to get locked into this vendor and its system. But this is a done-deal now.

Virtualization can work but you might try using a cloud server. Thse servers can be very powerfull, moreso then anything you could afford to buy yourself. But this depends on a reliable Internet.

If AC power in the field is an issue, just get a really big lithium power bank. They make them as big as you want. Charge it when evr AC power is available. I used to run a radar on my sailboat from golf cart batteries. Today there are MUCH better solutions.

 

[frost_horizon]

It is a long story. Have you seen the movie "The Founder" about the people that created McD's? The people at this company kind of remind me of that. They take the slightest suggestion or request for anything with their products as a personal insult. Dealing with them is probably one of the biggest stresses of running my business but they are the only people in the world that make the product we need for this one very specific application. It is what it is and I have been dealing with it for a decade. I would say it is the perfect opportunity for a competitor to step in and while I would love that it is very unlikely as there are so few users/potential customers. I hope to retire in about 5 years so I just need to push through until then. I am just not sure if my 2019 MBP will last that long.

What the software does is unchanged over the past decade but our clients are requesting more and more detailed information as time goes on which has caused exponential growth in data sampling intervals and the shear volume of data which in turn exponentially increases computing time.

If it is done by a single company in the world, it doesn’t mean that it cannot be done by any other person/company. It is probably your use case is pretty unique and offering for software companies are invisible. You said it is $12k and about 500 people using it. It is $6M in sales, which is not much for software market, so I don’t think any company will be interested in creation of analogue for product with such market.

Just a caution. If your business is relying on an exclusive software, developing by a single vendor which didn’t update it since 2015 and doesn’t support modern architectures and different platforms (Do you know many software that you use as it is for 10-15-20 years?), it is a risk worth to evaluate. And if the company is not customer-friendly and not interested in helping their customers to succeed, but only cares about money, it is not good partner to go with long-term.