I love unibody MacBook Pros, my take on $40 dollars MacBook Pro

[Aoligei]

Well, what should you expect when buying a brand-new laptop for as little as $100? Very cheap and very low-end components, such as those you mention. You can kinda obviously get a better deal by buying an older but more powerful second-hand laptop for the same kind of money.


Just out of interest, what Celeron processor does the laptop have? It's probably an Atom-architecture-derived CPU which explains its abysmal performance, but I'd be interested in comparing its performance to a Core 2 Duo.

Top, 2009 MacBook Pro running macOS Catalina. Bottom, Acer Aspire A114-31 Intel Celeron N3350. The 2009 MacBook Pro is roughly 3.2x faster than Celeron N3350.

The above is Geekbench 5 score for my 2020 HP Windows laptop. Specification: AMD Ryzen 3200U (2 core 4 threads), 16GB RAM, 500GB NVME Drive, AMD Vega 3 graphic. Cost was $399CAD, but Costco had $100 dollar off, so I picked up for $299CAD before taxes. This machine is about twice faster than 2009 MacBook Pro.

Based M1 Mac mini is roughly 10x more powerful than 2009 MacBook Pro and 5x more powerful than AMD Ryzen 3 3200U and 1.5x faster than AMD Ryzen 5 2600 with 16GB RAM and Nvidia GTX 1650 (my custom build PC) and 33x more powerful than Celeron processor.

 

[BeatCrazy]

@Aoligei I can appreciate your adventures trying to daily drive a cheap/old MacBook. Although I typically like the latest/greatest, it's indeed fun to see just how far you can get with a computer you got for free or $40.

You hinted at what I recently got flummoxed with... lack of software support. If you normally use the Microsoft 365 suite, and Safari + ad blockers, your options are very limited if running anything Big Sur or older.

I don't mind having slower ports, or even the overall slower performance. But software workarounds can be a complete nightmare.

 

[Aoligei]

@Aoligei I can appreciate your adventures trying to daily drive a cheap/old MacBook. Although I typically like the latest/greatest, it's indeed fun to see just how far you can get with a computer you got for free or $40.

You hinted at what I recently got flummoxed with... lack of software support. If you normally use the Microsoft 365 suite, and Safari + ad blockers, your options are very limited if running anything Big Sur or older.

I don't mind having slower ports, or even the overall slower performance. But software workarounds can be a complete nightmare.

Microsoft 365 will actually work with Catalina, so it is okay. But eventually Microsoft will drop Catalina support and older Mac, especially one older like this one will have hard time to run Big Sur... But some poster said they are able to run Big Sur just fine.

For browser, I use Brave. It is Chromium based browser, so add ons like ad blockers will work fine. I don't use Safari at all, it is kind slow.

Performance is okay, but as soon as connect to second display, the whole system craws. Every single Mac will eventually face this particular issue when Apple stops support. For Intel Mac, at least Windows or Linux is alternative, but for Apple Silicon based Mac, it is remain to see how Linux support would be like.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Microsoft 365 will actually work with Catalina, so it is okay. But eventually Microsoft will drop Catalina support and older Mac, especially one older like this one will have hard time to run Big Sur... But some poster said they are able to run Big Sur just fine.

Ah, you're correct. Catalina is the minimum, but later this year I expect Big Sur to be the minimum.

 

[Aoligei]

Ah, you're correct. Catalina is the minimum, but later this year I expect Big Sur to be the minimum.
View attachment 2024109

I did additional testing with this machine. I didn't have much time to play around with this machine since I got a week ago.

The Catalina installation is kind buggy to me, I have Wi-Fi issue which I could not connect to Wi-Fi if i put the computer to sleep for a period of time (i.e. 2 hours).. I have a Wi-Fi dongle connected to this laptop which kind resolving Wi-Fi problem.

This machine was not design to handle macOS Catalina, therefore, CPU kind get stress out fairly regularly. The result is that this laptop is kind noisy when fan kicks in. It is about 55db using iPhone app, so it is audible. So quite operation is not a thing.

I/O connection. USB 2.0 connection, 8GB file transfer took around 5 mins to complete. Same file with newer MacBook Air 2019 takes less than 1 minutes. Internal SSD is bottle necked by SATA 2 connection as well, so any cheap crappy SSD would work. There is no point to get expensive SSD, since you can't take advantage of higher speed anyway.

Black Magic disk, shows top write speed is 171-190 MB/s and 250MB/s read speed. So large file transfer is kind painful, since I kind want use this as a media sever, the file transfer speed is kind drag when i transfer large files to this (I added 1TB HDD into this as I have replaced the SuperDrive).

 

[BeatCrazy]

@Aoligei

Inspired by your comments regarding Microsoft 365 apps and older machines, I found the latest version that Microsoft supports for High Sierra, version 16.43.

The included version of OneDrive in the above package will not work on High Sierra, only Catalina. And that will get dropped soon, per Microsoft's blog.

However, you can still access all your native docs stored in OneDrive from their native apps, and you can save Word/Excel/PPT right into OneDrive, even without the OneDrive app. You won't get automatic syncing, but you can still pull down and and save files without restrictions.

So, this does appear to be a good workaround for older machines. It's almost like you're using a perpetual license of M365, with features frozen from the 16.43 (Nov 2020) release.

 

[Amethyst1]

@Aoligei - Thanks for providing the benchmarks.

 

[Aoligei]

@Aoligei

Inspired by your comments regarding Microsoft 365 apps and older machines, I found the latest version that Microsoft supports for High Sierra, version 16.43.

The included version of OneDrive in the above package will not work on High Sierra, only Catalina. And that will get dropped soon, per Microsoft's blog.

However, you can still access all your native docs stored in OneDrive from their native apps, and you can save Word/Excel/PPT right into OneDrive, even without the OneDrive app. You won't get automatic syncing, but you can still pull down and and save files without restrictions.

So, this does appear to be a good workaround for older machines. It's almost like you're using a perpetual license of M365, with features frozen from the 16.43 (Nov 2020) release.

Hum. It seems Microsoft will only support macOS that is actively supported by Apple. Looks like Catalina support would be end when macOS Ventura comes out.

Annoying things in found with Microsoft Office is that it will constantly remind you to update OS and Microsoft updater is annoying.

As for software support. I found lots of apps are no longer support anything under Catalina. Apple’s own apps are all require newest OS.

Adobe Creative Clouds are also only support Catalina and above. Black Magic’s Davinci Resolve will also require Catalina and above.

Some commonly used apps like VLC players, browsers like Brave are all supporting macOS High Serria.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Hum. It seems Microsoft will only support macOS that is actively supported by Apple. Looks like Catalina support would be end when macOS Ventura comes out.

Annoying things in found with Microsoft Office is that it will constantly remind you to update OS and Microsoft updater is annoying.

As for software support. I found lots of apps are no longer support anything under Catalina. Apple’s own apps are all require newest OS.

Adobe Creative Clouds are also only support Catalina and above. Black Magic’s Davinci Resolve will also require Catalina and above.

Some commonly used apps like VLC players, browsers like Brave are all supporting macOS High Serria.

Yes, I've found many of the major softwares (especially from the Mac App Store) only support the current macOS plus the two prior.

However, you can get older versions of Apple's iWork suite directly from the App Store. Assuming you previously were able to get them for the older macOS/OS X version.

For example, the current version of Numbers doesn't work with High Sierra. However, if you have bought a new Mac in the past when High Sierra was the current OS, you would have been given entitlement rights to that version (along with the corresponding other iWork apps) in the past. As such, the App Store will prompt you to download an older version of the iWork app when you're on High Sierra.

If you never bought a new Mac for the older OS and still want the iWork suite, you can find a friend that fits in to the category above, and assuming they still have a Mac with the older OS you want to use, they can download the older version of Numbers, turn it into a .dmg and share with you.

 

[m1maverick]

Seriously? Help me find any used PC that is $40 dollars and have same build quality?

Didn't you say below that purchasing a $40 MBP is not a common occurrence? This implies that you got a better than average deal on it. So what would be the point?

Secondly, I am merely compare with the PC that I have and I am able to get for close to $100 dollars, why is such big issue for you? If you like your E7470 so much, then good for you. And I don't give a damn.

Again: What is the point of comparing a $100 (new) PoS PC to a $2,000 (new) Macintosh?

You have to remember, my $40 dollars is Canadian dollar, your $100 dollar is probably US dollars. This is not comparable. Your $100 dollar E7470 cost almost 3x more ($40 dollar is roughly $31 USD).

The E7470 is also seven years newer and contains better specifications all around: Core i5 processor, M.2 SSD, 3 x USB 3.0 ports, HDMI port, 1920 x 1080 display, and is thinner and lighter than the 2009 MBP. Plus it has the advantage of being able to run the current version of Windows.

With that said the point of bringing up the E7470 wasn't to compare it with the 2009 MBP. It was to show that, for $100, one can get a considerably better PC compared to the PoS you used in your MBP / PC comparison.

Finally, you might able to get $100 dollar for your E7470 and I might able to get $40 dollar MacBook Pro. This is not common occurrence. Frankly, from Facebook market to Kijiji, with search range from $50 to $150, all I can find is old Windows laptop with cheap build quality that I don't care of.

Actually the purchase of an E7470 for $100 is not all that uncommon. In fact I purchased a couple of them.

 

[m1maverick]

I am not compare with cheap PC. I am compare with cheap, Celeron-based, 32GB laptop. I didn't make genetic statement that cheap PC are crap. You turned into general Mac vs PC crap.

Which, if I am not mistaken, is a PC.

 

[Aoligei]

Didn't you say below that purchasing a $40 MBP is not a common occurrence? This implies that you got a better than average deal on it. So what would be the point?


Again: What is the point of comparing a $100 (new) PoS PC to a $2,000 (new) Macintosh?

The E7470 is also seven years newer and contains better specifications all around: Core i5 processor, M.2 SSD, 3 x USB 3.0 ports, HDMI port, 1920 x 1080 display, and is thinner and lighter than the 2009 MBP. Plus it has the advantage of being able to run the current version of Windows.

With that said the point of bringing up the E7470 wasn't to compare it with the 2009 MBP. It was to show that, for $100, one can get a considerably better PC compared to the PoS you used in your MBP / PC comparison.


Actually the purchase of an E7470 for $100 is not all that uncommon. In fact I purchased a couple of them.

Why are you keep mentioning this E7470. I get you like that PC so much and you want to repeat this over and over and over again.

I already said it is better than this MacBook Pro, so what do you want? I also said value is to the person. This E7470 offers to no value to me or anyone who is looking for used Mac.

If you can find E7470 for $100 that is great. I searched all the used marketplace within my vicinity, I could not find it. I AM not looking at eBay, I am avoid it at all cost.

To put this bluntly, even if you give me the best PC money can buy for free, I won’t take it. I just don’t care.

 

[Aoligei]

Which, if I am not mistaken, is a PC.

Why are you generalized this particular PC to PC as general. It doesn’t make any sense to me.

 

[m1maverick]

Why are you keep mentioning this E7470. I get you like that PC so much and you want to repeat this over and over and over again.

I already said it is better than this MacBook Pro, so what do you want? I also said value is to the person. This E7470 offers to no value to me or anyone who is looking for used Mac.

If you can find E7470 for $100 that is great. I searched all the used marketplace within my vicinity, I could not find it. I AM not looking at eBay, I am avoid it at all cost.

To put this bluntly, even if you give me the best PC money can buy for free, I won’t take it. I just don’t care.

I keep mentioning it because it is a more appropriate comparison to the 2009 MBP then the PoS $100 PC you used in your comparison.

As for not caring about a PC I am puzzled as to why, in your initial post and right off the bat, made a comparison to a PC. You opened the door on this. I am merely stating I think your comparison was faulty and presented what I feel is a better one.

If you're not interested in a PC versus Mac comparison then you should never have made it.

 

[m1maverick]

Why are you generalized this particular PC to PC as general. It doesn’t make any sense to me.

Because it is a PC.

 

[Aoligei]

Because it is a PC.

Mac is also a PC, just let you know. So what is your point?

 

[Aoligei]

I keep mentioning it because it is a more appropriate comparison to the 2009 MBP then the PoS $100 PC you used in your comparison.

As for not caring about a PC I am puzzled as to why, in your initial post and right off the bat, made a comparison to a PC. You opened the door on this. I am merely stating I think your comparison was faulty and presented what I feel is a better one.

If you're not interested in a PC versus Mac comparison then you should never have made it.

I was trying to refer this purchase would be bette than these cheap celeron eMMc based laptop. Not generalize whole pc vs Mac comparison.

You are Dell is still three time more expensive than my $40 dollar MacBook Pro, it doesn’t really offer more than three times more performance. So in terms of performance/dollar ratio, is isn’t better.

 

[m1maverick]

Mac is also a PC, just let you know. So what is your point?

Apparently you needed it explained to you.

 

[Aoligei]

Apparently you needed it explained to you.

You are the expert, so explain.

 

[m1maverick]

I was trying to refer this purchase would be bette than these cheap celeron eMMc based laptop. Not generalize whole pc vs Mac comparison.

With my point being that your comparison is a bad one and that considerably better / capable PC laptops can be had for the same money.

You are Dell is still three time more expensive than my $40 dollar MacBook Pro, it doesn’t really offer more than three times more performance. So in terms of performance/dollar ratio, is isn’t better.

You've already alluded to the fact that your MBP acquisition was an anomaly and not indicative of the overall market. Likewise my intent was not to compare the E7470 to the MBP but rather provide an example of a much more capable PC for the same cost as the PoS PC you used for comparison. IOW it's not a MBP versus PC comparison but rather an E7470 (or similar laptop) versus PoS comparison.

 

[m1maverick]

You are the expert, so explain.

Already done and you appear to now understand.

 

[theMarble]

rather provide an example of a much more capable PC for the same cost as the PoS PC you used for comparison.

Even if, yes the Dell E7470 is a better computer, this was posted in the Early Intel Macs subforum, so people here like these old Mac's, whether they're $40 or $400 dollars.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

@Aoligei

Inspired by your comments regarding Microsoft 365 apps and older machines, I found the latest version that Microsoft supports for High Sierra, version 16.43.

The included version of OneDrive in the above package will not work on High Sierra, only Catalina. And that will get dropped soon, per Microsoft's blog.

However, you can still access all your native docs stored in OneDrive from their native apps, and you can save Word/Excel/PPT right into OneDrive, even without the OneDrive app. You won't get automatic syncing, but you can still pull down and and save files without restrictions.

So, this does appear to be a good workaround for older machines. It's almost like you're using a perpetual license of M365, with features frozen from the 16.43 (Nov 2020) release.

Have you tried getting OneDrive from the app store? You need to "purchase" (in quotes because it's free) the app on a Mac with a new OS (this could be a friend's computer, or a virtual machine), but afterwards you will be able to download the last compatible version on your older OS via the app store's purchased page.

I used this to get OneDrive on Mavericks. It was working fine as of last summer, when I uninstalled it because I left the company that used it.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Have you tried getting OneDrive from the app store? You need to "purchase" (in quotes because it's free) the Mac with a new OS (this could be a friend's computer, or a virtual machine), but afterwards you will be able to download the last compatible version on your older OS via the app store's purchased page.

I used this to get OneDrive on Mavericks. It was working fine as of last summer, when I uninstalled it because I left the company that used it.

Wow, this actually worked! The key is you have needed to have "purchased" the Microsoft app during the period when you need the older download. For instance, my wife only recently "purchased" aka got the entitlement for the macOS Excel in the past year. When she tried to download Excel on her account on this High Sierra machine, she got a hard no. Her account didn't have any entitlements for any older versions, so she was basically stuck (this was before I found the direct, older links to use). It's the same with older OS X versions. Since I've used/downloaded Lion, etc. before, I can get those from the Mac App Store for compatible machines. But people who've only had new Macs cannot.

However, this older version of OneDrive doesn't have the "Files On Demand" feature. As such, I can only keep/sync OneDrive files that actually fit on my Mac's SSD. Not the end of the world, as I can still download files as needed, and Office docs will still sync into the basic OneDrive "Documents" folder.

 

[m1maverick]

Even if, yes the Dell E7470 is a better computer, this was posted in the Early Intel Macs subforum, so people here like these old Mac's, whether they're $40 or $400 dollars.

Yes we do. Which is why I said he should have left the comparison out. The initial post conveyed his fondness for the MBP well. IMO the comparison with a PoS PC was unnecessary. No one here needs convincing the MBP is a great system.