I potentially need a new computer. Please help.

[Marshall73]

thanks i’ll have my husband look when he swaps the power supply. the room it lives it is not particularly dusty though (unlike the rest of my house 🤣). but good idea to check.

My desk/office where the iMac was used wasn’t particularly dusty but the iMac draws so much air through it that it takes more dust out of the air than a dyson, LOL

i cleaned it out thoroughly and replaced the aging mechanical drive with a 2TB SSD. It now runs perfectly.

 

[Joniz]

Sure. But buying both of them, using them for a month, and then returning the one you don't like isn't really an option.

Actually, if you order from Amazon (who generally have discounted prices), you can. We’ve done it a couple of times.

And during the Christmas season, you get even longer. Like three months.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I have the base M1 MBA, and it's been very reliable. I didn't rush out to buy it. I waited for any "showstopper" bugs, didn't see any, and I can't complain one bit about the performance. I will ask, if you had 40GB of RAM in the last Mac, did you have any idea what kind of memory pressure you had? I suspect 16GB would work for you just fine (I edit 20MP RAW on just 8GB), but I don't want to presume. If that checks out, your programs work in M1, preferably native, and you can handle the drop in screen size, I'd say just get the M1. There's always something better coming, but unless you anticipate your workflow changing significantly over the next few years (like editing much larger RAW files from some yet unpurchased camera body), it's just a stress you don't need to worry about. These M1 iMacs just launched, so you're probably a year away from something better even coming out.

Apple has a super-forgiving return policy. 14 days, no questions asked, free return shipping even. Yeah, there's Amazon, but I returned something to them recently, waited 2 weeks with no refund or status updates, and had to ask customer service. I got the refund, but for a company that can deliver same day, that's pretty sad. Don't get it from B&H or Adorama if you might return it. They stopped accepting returns on any opened computers sometime recently.

And to not answer your question, I was suspecting dust as well. If it clogs the works, the system will overheat and shut down. Based on the time from boot to crash, it's a very real possibility. But maybe the Mr can save the machine. Props to him for doing the research and buying the parts--but that's a car guy for you.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

You need to open it and clean it out. I had a similar issue and it was due to overheating because the fan was clogged up. The design of the iMac is great apart from the inability to clean it out without removing the display 😞

View attachment 1803888

That looks contageous...

 

[mollyc]

I have the base M1 MBA, and it's been very reliable. I didn't rush out to buy it. I waited for any "showstopper" bugs, didn't see any, and I can't complain one bit about the performance. I will ask, if you had 40GB of RAM in the last Mac, did you have any idea what kind of memory pressure you had? I suspect 16GB would work for you just fine (I edit 20MP RAW on just 8GB), but I don't want to presume. If that checks out, your programs work in M1, preferably native, and you can handle the drop in screen size, I'd say just get the M1. There's always something better coming, but unless you anticipate your workflow changing significantly over the next few years (like editing much larger RAW files from some yet unpurchased camera body), it's just a stress you don't need to worry about. These M1 iMacs just launched, so you're probably a year away from something better even coming out.

Apple has a super-forgiving return policy. 14 days, no questions asked, free return shipping even. Yeah, there's Amazon, but I returned something to them recently, waited 2 weeks with no refund or status updates, and had to ask customer service. I got the refund, but for a company that can deliver same day, that's pretty sad. Don't get it from B&H or Adorama if you might return it. They stopped accepting returns on any opened computers sometime recently.

And to not answer your question, I was suspecting dust as well. If it clogs the works, the system will overheat and shut down. Based on the time from boot to crash, it's a very real possibility. But maybe the Mr can save the machine. Props to him for doing the research and buying the parts--but that's a car guy for you.

yes he changes the oil in one of our cars too and does all the maintenance on our yard equipment.

i was smart when i picked him and lucky when he picked me. 🙂

 

[smirking]

LR classic is supported the M1 natively, and I have no desire to switch away from it.

WOW, really? I thought Adobe stopped all development on LR Classic?

I'm not a Lightroom user so I don't remember which version is which.

UPDATE: Looks like the performance is actually quite nice for LR Classic on an M1.

Adobe Launches Native Apple M1 Support for Lightroom Classic

Lightroom Classic finally sees native M1 support.

petapixel.com

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

yes he changes the oil in one of our cars too and does all the maintenance on our yard equipment.

i was smart when i picked him and lucky when he picked me. 🙂

I’ve changed oil before, and used to help my dad work on the car growing up. These days if I have the time and energy, I’m working on the money pit…er…home. When Mrs Darmok fell in love with a fixer-upper, my goose was cooked! An old lady house covered in green carpet!

 

[mollyc]

I’ve changed oil before, and used to help my dad work on the car growing up. These days if I have the time and energy, I’m working on the money pit…er…home. When Mrs Darmok fell in love with a fixer-upper, my goose was cooked! An old lady house covered in green carpet!

yes well i asked for a new house. less maintenance but more upfront costs!!

 

[mackmgg]

I have a Benq SW271 and have been quite happy with it. That said, you are going to be hard pressed to beat the 27” iMac 5K display.

Is your 2017 iMac adequate for the photography work that you are doing?

FWIW, see if your husband can get your current iMac working. If he can’t, I’d recommend a certified refurbished 2020 27” iMac, specifically, the 8-core with 8GB/1TB SSD/Radeon 5500XT and add 32GB of DRAM to it. You don’t need an M1 and Intel will be viable for you for at least another 5 years, if not longer. The price of the refurb is reasonable and will be so much better than what you currently have that unless you want to chase technology (which I don’t gather you do), you can simply use this computer and have something very familiar, but better.

Refurb iMac - https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...z-8-core-Intel-Core-i7-with-Retina-5K-display

Oh yeah if there are refurbs available that’s definitely the way to go. Best value for your money by far, they’re often better quality than the new ones because of the more rigorous QC process! I always buy refurb from Apple if the stock is there.

 

[ian87w]

my problems started in the past 6-8 weeks with no hardware or software change in the same timeframe.

i do appreciate the troubleshooting but if the power supply doesn’t fix it, then a new computer will.

which brings me back to my main and original question: m1 or intel version?

If a new Mac is a must, clearly get the m1. It's obvious that Intel macs will be dropped from support soon after Apple complete the transition. The downside is the only selection right now is either go with a smaller screen with the 24" iMac, or get the m1 Mac mini and but a separate monitor to your liking. Also max RAM of current m1 Macs as you already know is 16GB.

 

[ericinboston]

[tl;dr: M1 iMac or 2020 Intel iMac for replacement computer for photography?]

Dear Photo Friends,

I currently use a 2017 4.2 Ghz i7 27" iMac with 40GB RAM. I previously used a 2012 iMac and before that a 2008 iMac. The 2008 we kept around for a kids' computer for quite a long time and finally recycled it, and the 2012 is still here, occasionally used by my son. Neither ever gave me any issues, I just upgraded when needed due to new cameras, more storage, etc.

In the past two months or so, I have had a lot of trouble keeping my current 2017 iMac on. I just goes to a black, fully off screen for no reason. Sometimes I can leave it on overnight with no issues, and sometimes it shuts down while booting up. Yesterday I tried to use it and the longest it stayed on was about 4 minutes, enough to import a handful of photos, and after that I couldn't even get it to fully boot again.

I know you are not looking for a diagnosis, but I think my tip will be extremely helpful:

Everything you describe states the computer shuts off (not sleep, not reboot). Have you tried plugging the machine into a)a different outlet on the same circuit and b)a completely different outlet on a different circuit? It's possible a)your jack on the wall is wiggly and the cord just sometimes gets loose enough to lose a connection or b)the wiring behind the outlet is simply bad or c)the circuit itself is bad.

Lastly, if the above does not help, there is something that is not fast/cheap to test: it's possible your electrical feed is not "clean" and thus desktops simply power off. I have a few desktops that react exactly as you describe if I am using my portable generator. The generator has plenty of power, but it's not clean and the computer doesn't like it. One way to test this is to use an Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) such as the APC brand (as cheap as $50). It comes with software that tracks how good and clean your power is from the wall to your UPS. My APC unit actually allows me to adjust how sensitive it is to bad/unclean power before it kicks in to battery mode.

Anyway, at least take the 5 minutes and try other outlets. You don't want to spend thousands of dollars, trips to the store, and effort to realize that whatever else you buy has the same problem.

p.s. I would recommend a UPS to any person using any kind of desktop. Even if you don't use the software to automatically, gracefully shut down the machine, you will easily get 5 minutes of power to save your work and manually shut down. My $125 UPS will power my desktop i7 machine and 32" monitor for 30+ minutes.

 

[crees!]

Also, this was my original plan until mine stopped working, to let others test the M chips for awhile.

We’ve been using Apple chips for years in our phones and iPads. These M-variants are just beefier and I wouldn’t hesitate to purchase one.

 

[bunnspecial]

WOW, really? I thought Adobe stopped all development on LR Classic?

I'm not a Lightroom user so I don't remember which version is which.

UPDATE: Looks like the performance is actually quite nice for LR Classic on an M1.

Adobe Launches Native Apple M1 Support for Lightroom Classic

Lightroom Classic finally sees native M1 support.

petapixel.com

I’m a stubborn Classic user also, and will only switch if Apple drags me kicking and screaming.

I actually put off switching to CC got a long time and held out with my perpetual LR6 license.

It was a real pig on my M1 Pro 8gb/512gb before it was native. It was borderline unusable to the point that I switched back to my 2012 pro.

The native version changed things and it’s now really snappy and works great.

 

[FocusAndEarnIt]

Molly, sorry your iMac is failing you. Sad to see Apple hardware failing; it's a rarity for me but it does happen.

In trying to stick to your question, I think that you should go with the M1 iMac. If Apple's latest macOS Monterey is any indication, everything going forward is going to be tuned towards Apple Silicon, which makes sense. I also remember Craig talking about support for Intel. He was pressed on how long, and he only said years - when pressed further, 'Like 3 years? 4?' he just repeated, "years." If you recall the transition from PPC to Intel, PPC was left in the dust pretty quickly. Mac OS X Leopard (10.5) was the last version, and they were on Mac OS X Tiger (10.4) at the time. Granted, the upgrade cycles at that time were much slower (around 2 years instead of every year).

That all being said, you do take some risks: being in the batch of guinea pigs with the first Mx chip. I don't think this is much of an issue though as they've largely been raved about and minimal compatibility issues at this point. The other issue is your machine becoming outdated. This will happen to everyone, every year when they buy a new Mac. The 24" is a gorgeous display, but I doubt Apple will upgrade the 24" line this year -- they'll likely be going for the M1X chip in the 27" later this year. I suspect the 24" version will get the M2 in mid 2022, right along with the new MacBooK Airs around that time. Just a guess, not sure on the timing obviously other than being confident it'll be in 2022. The question is though, do you really need it? I'm writing on a 16" MBP which has tons of guts for an Intel Mac, and currently the M1 is on par with it or faster based on benchmarks. And the M1's a whole lot quieter... but that's a separate issue.

Remember: 16GB of system-on-a-chip memory is different than the memory in Intel Macs. I suspect you will be more than fine with 16GB.

In short, go for the M1 iMac. The real question is, what color?

 

[Adam Spicar]

Go for M1 iMac. I recently setup one for my friend and it's a BEAST!
He does video, pictures, newsletters and everything we threw at it was faster than his new Intel iMac. It was a pleasure to use with ZERO issues.
Plus it looks amazing!
20 years of using Apple and this is the best looking and feeling iMac.
Did I say it is the fastest I've ever worked on?

 

[smirking]

The native version changed things and it’s now really snappy and works great.

OK, I thought LrC was a rebranded and frozen version of LR6.

It's actually a CC suite app under active development. I had avoided LR because of how slow it was. Capture One Pro is working out great for me, but after I upgrade to an M1x, I might give LR another look.

 

[bunnspecial]

OK, I thought LrC was a rebranded and frozen version of LR6.

It's actually a CC suite app under active development. I had avoided LR because of how slow it was. Capture One Pro is working out great for me, but after I upgrade to an M1x, I might give LR another look.

Yeah, Adobe has continued to develop in the CC era. In fact, I seem to recall that early in the CC days, "Lightroom CC" was basically "Lightroom 7" albeit on the subscription/continuous update CC model. I might have the name wrong, but for a while into the CC era, unless my memory is twisted up, there was only a single product called Lightroom.

If I'm not mistaken, what we now call Lightroom CC was a new product developed along the way, and the continuation of the old product was renamed "Classic."

I stretch back to LR2, so LR Classic is familiar and comfortable.

Your speed observation is interesting. I've not used Capture One beyond a demo of it, and I didn't go with it just because of the learning curve/inertia of switching from Lightroom. I don't recall noticing a speed difference at the time. It would have been on my 2012 15" MBP, and I suspect Lightroom remains(today) as peppy as it is since it can use the dGPU. My first Mac, a 2011 13" Pro, was a different story especially since the integrated graphics in it are a big step down from the 2012 integrated.

Whatever the case, for a while I had a dual 2.7 G5 set up as a scanning workstation. Had I owned the computer back in 2005, doing that work with LR2/CS2 I'm sure I would have thought it was hot stuff. Now, even doing that same work with that same software, it sure feels slow.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Something I don't like to newer iMacs is that it is impossible to clean inside unless one removes the screen, since iMacs not longer have access panels in the back. My 2019 iMac does have a RAM modules access panel, but that's is it.

I probably purchased the last iMac, since it is not possible to dust the cooling fans unless one disassembles it. If one works in a dusty environment, which by the way could also be pollen, two or three years later the fan blades will be covered with dust. In this case, it is best to take it to the Apple store for servicing, or to take it apart to clean it.

 

[TheWasmer]

[tl;dr: M1 iMac or 2020 Intel iMac for replacement computer for photography?]

Dear Photo Friends,

I currently use a 2017 4.2 Ghz i7 27" iMac with 40GB RAM. I previously used a 2012 iMac and before that a 2008 iMac. The 2008 we kept around for a kids' computer for quite a long time and finally recycled it, and the 2012 is still here, occasionally used by my son. Neither ever gave me any issues, I just upgraded when needed due to new cameras, more storage, etc.

In the past two months or so, I have had a lot of trouble keeping my current 2017 iMac on. I just goes to a black, fully off screen for no reason. Sometimes I can leave it on overnight with no issues, and sometimes it shuts down while booting up. Yesterday I tried to use it and the longest it stayed on was about 4 minutes, enough to import a handful of photos, and after that I couldn't even get it to fully boot again.

I haven't worked in nearly 20 years, and the summer I sign up to write a photography class is the time when the stupid thing stops working.

My husband ordered a new power supply this morning and will attempt to fix my computer whenever it comes. He's quite handy with computers and I'm sure he's more than capable of fixing it, but I do not know if the power supply is the actual issue. (I've tried other options and I'm not asking you all to diagnose the stupid thing, just giving you background).

All that said, if the power supply does not fix the issue, then I will need to buy a new computer. I am having a hard time figuring out if I should go with the smaller but new M1 or stick with the Intel 2020 27". I am not interested in a laptop as a main computer (I have an 2018 MBA that I am currently using as a backup, which I typically use in the manner of an iPad), nor do I want to have to research monitors with a Mac Mini. Despite my current issues, I do like iMacs in general. But I worry that the M1 iMac isn't powerful enough with a max of 16GB RAM, and then I worry that the 2020 iMac will be basically out of date in the next six months or so. I have five local Apple stores, so I should be able to find something in stock at one of them, even if I would prefer a custom configuration.

What would you do in my position if I have to get something new?

Hi Mollyc,
Another reason your Mac might shutdown is due to overheating. I still own a 2008 MacBook (Unibody Aluminium).
there could be 3 further reasons because of overheating (which will trigger most computer (not only macs) to shutdown afaik):
a) cpu fan is not working
b) lots of dust inside and blocking airflow
c) thermal paste between CPU and cooling grill has aged and needs replacement.

maybe this helps

If a new Mac is needed, I guess the new M1 iMacs are good enough for photo editing, but screen size might be too small.

cheers
Sven

 

[leifp]

After having read this dollop of web-wisdom, and knowing that you run up-to-date software, I would only have one question: how large are your image files?

okay, two: how important is screen real estate/quality?

If you’re manipulating RAW images from medium format cameras, RAM might be a concern, however if you’re editing jpgs from a D750 an M1 with 16GB ought to exceed your needs.

personally, I bought an M1 mini to tide me through until the larger iMacs launch because I not only find my 27” iMac screen too small, I’m going to opt for matte (Now that I’ve seen Apple’s matte screens “live”). Or go big on the XDR if the next iMac doesn’t live up to my desires… and I can swallow the cost at the time.

context: in another life I was a photographer and screen quality and size remain hallmark requirements for me. I shoot with a D700, D750, and D850 in RAW+jpg. I haven’t caused my mini to stumble yet, if you enjoy anecdotal evidence…

 

[smirking]

Your speed observation is interesting. I've not used Capture One beyond a demo of it, and I didn't go with it just because of the learning curve/inertia of switching from Lightroom. I don't recall noticing a speed difference at the time. It would have been on my 2012 15" MBP, and I suspect Lightroom remains(today) as peppy as it is since it can use the dGPU.

It would have been around late 2016 that I adopted Capture One Pro. Around that time, there were a lot of gripes about how slow Lightroom was.

This Guy Built an Ultimate Lightroom Battlestation for $6,000

Hobbyist photographer and Twitter product designer Paul Stamatiou recently decided that his 2-year-old iMac was no longer up to the task of handling his

petapixel.com

In 2016, I finally decided to move on from Aperture. I trialed around a dozen competitors and I found Lightroom to be every bit as slow as what I had been hearing. Capture One Pro was only slightly better so I passed on both, but decided to give Capture One Pro another shot after they announced a new version with performance improvements.

Those improvements made it snappy so that's what I've been using as of 2017. The performance issues would creep back in and get resolved over the next couple of years, but it's been stable for a number of years now.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

You need to open it and clean it out. I had a similar issue and it was due to overheating because the fan was clogged up. The design of the iMac is great apart from the inability to clean it out without removing the display 😞

View attachment 1803888

And once a processor is thermal faults, and the flag is set, it's not going anywhere... I had a system 'thermal', and neither the motherboard, or the processor were usable after that. Ouch...

 

[jwolf6589]

I would go for the Intel. We've all heard very good things about the M1 but it is still new to the market. I never like to be the first in line as I'd rather let other people do the real world testing for me. I would wait another year before getting an M1.

Except by then it won’t be M1. But M2 or M3.

 

[mollyc]

I know you are not looking for a diagnosis, but I think my tip will be extremely helpful:

Everything you describe states the computer shuts off (not sleep, not reboot). Have you tried plugging the machine into a)a different outlet on the same circuit and b)a completely different outlet on a different circuit? It's possible a)your jack on the wall is wiggly and the cord just sometimes gets loose enough to lose a connection or b)the wiring behind the outlet is simply bad or c)the circuit itself is bad.

Lastly, if the above does not help, there is something that is not fast/cheap to test: it's possible your electrical feed is not "clean" and thus desktops simply power off. I have a few desktops that react exactly as you describe if I am using my portable generator. The generator has plenty of power, but it's not clean and the computer doesn't like it. One way to test this is to use an Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) such as the APC brand (as cheap as $50). It comes with software that tracks how good and clean your power is from the wall to your UPS. My APC unit actually allows me to adjust how sensitive it is to bad/unclean power before it kicks in to battery mode.

Anyway, at least take the 5 minutes and try other outlets. You don't want to spend thousands of dollars, trips to the store, and effort to realize that whatever else you buy has the same problem.

p.s. I would recommend a UPS to any person using any kind of desktop. Even if you don't use the software to automatically, gracefully shut down the machine, you will easily get 5 minutes of power to save your work and manually shut down. My $125 UPS will power my desktop i7 machine and 32" monitor for 30+ minutes.

We custom built our house in 2012. We have a whole house surge protector and a backup generator. My iMac has always been plugged in through a UPS. I actually did take it out of the UPS and plugged it into the wall to eliminate the UPS as a culprit, but it didn't make a difference (plus my UPS is only a year or two old). Our wiring is not bad and the power is clean. My parents once had a similar problem, but I know that is not the issue here.

After having read this dollop of web-wisdom, and knowing that you run up-to-date software, I would only have one question: how large are your image files?

okay, two: how important is screen real estate/quality?

If you’re manipulating RAW images from medium format cameras, RAM might be a concern, however if you’re editing jpgs from a D750 an M1 with 16GB ought to exceed your needs.

personally, I bought an M1 mini to tide me through until the larger iMacs launch because I not only find my 27” iMac screen too small, I’m going to opt for matte (Now that I’ve seen Apple’s matte screens “live”). Or go big on the XDR if the next iMac doesn’t live up to my desires… and I can swallow the cost at the time.

context: in another life I was a photographer and screen quality and size remain hallmark requirements for me. I shoot with a D700, D750, and D850 in RAW+jpg. I haven’t caused my mini to stumble yet, if you enjoy anecdotal evidence…

I currently shoot with a Z6 & Z6ii. I used a D800 for many years, and files from that camera probably make up the bulk of my library, but I have images going back to 2007 from all sorts of cameras. While I still access the D800 images frequently, I don't have to worry about big imports from that camera anymore (although occasionally I might re-edit an image here or there). I have no plans to get a medium format digital camera, although in the future I might get a medium format film camera and would have scans from that...but they'd already be jpeg by the time I got them unless I invest in a scanner, which at present isn't likely (although I suppose not impossible).

I do love the 27" size and I am not sure that I could go to a 24" but I'm not sure that I couldn't, either. I never maximize my screens and I have a feeling I'd quickly get used to the 24" if necessary. My first iMac was a 24" and it seemed fine at the time.

Hi Mollyc,
Another reason your Mac might shutdown is due to overheating. I still own a 2008 MacBook (Unibody Aluminium).
there could be 3 further reasons because of overheating (which will trigger most computer (not only macs) to shutdown afaik):
a) cpu fan is not working
b) lots of dust inside and blocking airflow
c) thermal paste between CPU and cooling grill has aged and needs replacement.

maybe this helps

If a new Mac is needed, I guess the new M1 iMacs are good enough for photo editing, but screen size might be too small.

cheers
Sven

Although dust is a possibility, the fans definitely still work.

 

[ericinboston]

We custom built our house in 2012. We have a whole house surge protector and a backup generator. My iMac has always been plugged in through a UPS. I actually did take it out of the UPS and plugged it into the wall to eliminate the UPS as a culprit, but it didn't make a difference (plus my UPS is only a year or two old). Our wiring is not bad and the power is clean. My parents once had a similar problem, but I know that is not the issue here.

Well that's good news and an easy check. Have you considered bringing it to Apple and asking for a repair estimate? It may be worth spending $250 to fix it and be able to relax and keep the computer for awhile than make a quick decision (and you're going to have to migrate everything anyway...and how will that be done if your old iMac won't turn on?).

Also, have you checked with your credit card company to see if they offer a free extended warranty on all your credit card purchases? Most credit cards do AND you do not have to file a claim the day the machine breaks. Usually you have 90 days. So if you bought the computer on June 5, 2017 (the day it was released) and you bought Applecare and got a 3 year warranty, that would expire June 5, 2020. Your credit card would extend it to June 5, 2021 which was a few weeks ago...you said your problem started several weeks ago so you could tell your credit cart company the problem began May 15, for example. They would pay for either the repair or the full price of your purchase.