I potentially need a new computer. Please help.

[profcutter]

Molly,
I think you’re handling this exactly the right way. I’m really hoping that the new power supply does the trick. If I were you, and the machine DIDN’T work after the repair, I’d probably try to troll the forums for a used iMac 27 inch.

The screen size makes a huge difference. I taught online last year, and I had access to two separate 27 inch monitors, the one built into the iMac and an external. It made teaching so much easier. When you’re doing screen capture recordings, the extra real estate on the 27 inch makes a huge difference as well.

It’s just a lousy time for a computer to poop out on you, one made longer, I suspect by the chip shortage. I like to keep my machines for as long as I can as well, I still use my 2015 MBP as my main mac. So, in short, I’d try to spend as little as possible on a used machine, and save my pennies for a new M2 iMac 27 or 30 inch. Otherwise, I’d be pretty sad when the new ones came out, and I was using an M1 and only 24 inch. That’s just me.

If you do want the 24 inch with 16GB, I’ve found that at least in the philly area, check the apple store app at midnight or 1 o’clock. Plenty of 16GB machines available, as long as you have the magic specs, I think 16GB/1TB. If you wait till morning, they’re all gone.

 

[kenoh]

my problems started in the past 6-8 weeks with no hardware or software change in the same timeframe.

i do appreciate the troubleshooting but if the power supply doesn’t fix it, then a new computer will.

which brings me back to my main and original question: m1 or intel version?

OK, trying not to scream conspiracy but remember I just got a Mac Mini M1 to replace my late 2016 MacBook Pro because it started doing exactly what you are describing - even poking around in the log files gave little in the way of diagnostic information. I knew the PSU was fine (I know what a knackered PSU presents as) and the best guess I had was that of thermal issues.

IMHO an M1 is better for future resale value. However, what I have found is that performance wise, there is a difference in running intel software in Rosetta vs M1 native. M1 native flies, Rosetta is noticeably slower. Notice I said slower not slow.

Now, everything is nice on the M1 - I had a 27” matte 4K monitor going spare so got the mini. The internal speaker is pants for anything other than listening to YouTube videos.

I got the 16gb ram version but only the 512GB internal drive as everything I need is off in the cloud or on NAS storage anyway.

I am very happy with the M1 but just know this, Photoshop on M1 is not quite point for point comparable with the Intel version. The main way this is apparent, is that your 3rd party plug ins no longer work on Photoshop for M1. If you use plug-ins like NIK or any of the luminosity mask tool panels etc, then these are not available on M1 Photoshop - this being said, it is easy to force photoshop to run the intel version where you will then find all of your plug ins like normal but note the performance gotcha above. If you use NIK by right click edit in… in LR then you are fine - assuming you are using the latest version, to use older versions takes some “tweaking”

Outside of this, I couldn’t be happier with the M1 Mini.

Looking at the Geekbench scores for the 2017 i7, vs the M1 Mac mini, the M1 seems on paper to be more than 70% faster than the 2017 iMac. Just short of the geek bench scores of the 2020 iMac i9.

I would seriously consider what @Apple fanboy is saying and consider the Mini and a monitor of your own choosing for future flexibility oh and the matte screen is a joy. No more sitting at wonky angles trying to edit through a reflection of your own face.

Not sure this helps and also I would be keeping an eye on Apple new toys day…. Which should be in a couple of months. Suspect M2 silicon will be announced so as food for thought, how about an iPad Pro now to tide you over for writing the course etc? That way you can be ready when the M2 is announced?

The M1 pro is a thing of beauty - I have the 2020 model damnit!


Not sure this helps at all…

 

[kenoh]

Is it possible to get an M1 Mac Mini and use the iMac simply as a display?

I think Apple stopped that bit working a few generations ago right? I may be wrong but I thought as of about 2014 then stopped that function - too useful and stops us buying pro displays…. - oops sorry cynic moment….

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

OK, trying not to scream conspiracy but remember I just got a Mac Mini M1 to replace my late 2016 MacBook Pro because it started doing exactly what you are describing - even poking around in the log files gave little in the way of diagnostic information. I knew the PSU was fine (I know what a knackered PSU presents as) and the best guess I had was that of thermal issues.

IMHO an M1 is better for future resale value. However, what I have found is that performance wise, there is a difference in running intel software in Rosetta vs M1 native. M1 native flies, Rosetta is noticeably slower. Notice I said slower not slow.

Now, everything is nice on the M1 - I had a 27” matte 4K monitor going spare so got the mini. The internal speaker is pants for anything other than listening to YouTube videos.

I got the 16gb ram version but only the 512GB internal drive as everything I need is off in the cloud or on NAS storage anyway.

I am very happy with the M1 but just know this, Photoshop on M1 is not quite point for point comparable with the Intel version. The main way this is apparent, is that your 3rd party plug ins no longer work on Photoshop for M1. If you use plug-ins like NIK or any of the luminosity mask tool panels etc, then these are not available on M1 Photoshop - this being said, it is easy to force photoshop to run the intel version where you will then find all of your plug ins like normal but note the performance gotcha above. If you use NIK by right click edit in… in LR then you are fine - assuming you are using the latest version, to use older versions takes some “tweaking”

Outside of this, I couldn’t be happier with the M1 Mini.

Looking at the Geekbench scores for the 2017 i7, vs the M1 Mac mini, the M1 seems on paper to be more than 70% faster than the 2017 iMac. Just short of the geek bench scores of the 2020 iMac i9.

I would seriously consider what @Apple fanboy is saying and consider the Mini and a monitor of your own choosing for future flexibility oh and the matte screen is a joy. No more sitting at wonky angles trying to edit through a reflection of your own face.

Not sure this helps and also I would be keeping an eye on Apple new toys day…. Which should be in a couple of months. Suspect M2 silicon will be announced so as food for thought, how about an iPad Pro now to tide you over for writing the course etc? That way you can be ready when the M2 is announced?

The M1 pro is a thing of beauty - I have the 2020 model damnit!


Not sure this helps at all…

The Mini is probably the most ignored and dismissed Apple product, and yet it is very capable and I have three of them. One is a media server with over 10tb of space, and one is a 'trainer content feeder' for my attempts at staying young and fit. I could not see using a traditional iMac for a media server. Who has the space for that? And the MIL was about to get one because it was fairly inexpensive, and could use a gigantic TV for a monitor/screen since it was her prime entertainment device, replacing her cable subscription. It works so well for so many functions. I hope Apple never kills it. If anything, they should see it as a model for a new new new new Mac Pro 'thin client' that could be slightly larger than the current Mini, and yet be a screamer, with everything except RAM being off the reservation. (Maybe liquid cool the thing?)

 

[jz0309]

The more important question for @mollyc for today is: did your iMac shut down after you took the addl RAM out?

 

[kenoh]

The Mini is probably the most ignored and dismissed Apple product, and yet it is very capable and I have three of them. One is a media server with over 10tb of space, and one is a 'trainer content feeder' for my attempts at staying young and fit. I could not see using a traditional iMac for a media server. Who has the space for that? And the MIL was about to get one because it was fairly inexpensive, and could use a gigantic TV for a monitor/screen since it was her prime entertainment device, replacing her cable subscription. It works so well for so many functions. I hope Apple never kills it. If anything, they should see it as a model for a new new new new Mac Pro 'thin client' that could be slightly larger than the current Mini, and yet be a screamer, with everything except RAM being off the reservation. (Maybe liquid cool the thing?)

You OK? That one got away from you a bit there at the end didn’t it?

I agree. I too ignored the Mini but for some reason I have started taking @Apple fanboy seriously of late and showed it some attention.

I have to say I like it and the reduction in clutter vs a 15” MBP on the desk is great. Great form factor and for photos it is perfect. Also runs cool and silent - last thing I need is another fan running at my desk!

 

[mollyc]

The more important question for @mollyc for today is: did your iMac shut down after you took the addl RAM out?

No, it didn't but based on past history, that doesn't actually mean anything. I had a period of about two weeks with no shut downs at all, and then it started re-occuring. It performs particularly well after being unplugged from the wall overnight, which it had been yesterday. I did get a fresh backup, but beyond that I didn't use it much so I don't think it was on long enough for anything to go wrong. The fact that it does well after an extended unplugging is what leads me to think power supply.

I will keep the ram out as an ongoing experiment, but that it didn't shut down immediately doesn't tell me anything at this point.

 

[Apple fanboy]

You OK? That one got away from you a bit there at the end didn’t it?

I agree. I too ignored the Mini but for some reason I have started taking @Apple fanboy seriously of late and showed it some attention.

I have to say I like it and the reduction in clutter vs a 15” MBP on the desk is great. Great form factor and for photos it is perfect. Also runs cool and silent - last thing I need is another fan running at my desk!

Glad to have been of service.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

There is also a really nifty USB-C base you can get for the mini that adds front USB-A and USB-C ports, a card reader, a headphone jack and an internal storage slot. It's $99, which is seems like a fair price considering it also is designed to match the mini perfectly.

I've considered getting a mini, but I spend so much time at that desk already working from home! Kinda want to get away from it at that point.

 

[Apple fanboy]

There is also a really nifty USB-C base you can get for the mini that adds front USB-A and USB-C ports, a card reader, a headphone jack and an internal storage slot. It's $99, which is seems like a fair price considering it also is designed to match the mini perfectly.

I've considered getting a mini, but I spend so much time at that desk already working from home! Kinda want to get away from it at that point.

That’s kind of my issue. I’ve started to view my office as the office. So I try and avoid it when not working etc! But I hate laptops. Even though I have a 13” MBP for work it’s always connected to a pair of 27” monitors, full size Apple keyboard and magic mouse 2.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Glad to have been of service.

Thanks. I have worked the whole day destroying my yard. Who rents commercial equipment to a frustrated ex-IT geek with a demonic streak.

I have severed my sprinkler line, my u-verse line, and found a chunk of rebar sticking out of the foundation. I've had a really interesting day.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

You OK? That one got away from you a bit there at the end didn’t it?

I agree. I too ignored the Mini but for some reason I have started taking @Apple fanboy seriously of late and showed it some attention.

I have to say I like it and the reduction in clutter vs a 15” MBP on the desk is great. Great form factor and for photos it is perfect. Also runs cool and silent - last thing I need is another fan running at my desk!

What, a Mac Mini version of the New New New New Mac Pro is too much for you? I think it's genius!!!

I imagine a wall of smoking (not literally) New New New New Mac Pro systems, enclosed in a wall, and each one is performing yeoman's effort crunching the meaning of life, and is about to come up with the ultimate answer to the ultimate question, of the ultimate answer, or something like that, but the true aim of Apple, according to me, should be in creating a new new new new new Mac Pro that is nearly the same size as a Mac Mini, and comes with an option for Liquid Cooling, and a big radiator with the ability to cool a dozen with one cooling unit. But one, and the cooling unit and be able to rock 11 more, for less money. Crank the next greatest movie of the century THIS NEXT YEAR!!! What a great idea.

I saw the rack mounts for the 'trash can' Pros, and was instantly envious, but a rack mount of Mac Pro Minis would be earth shaking.

Anyway, I'll go take a nap... Cheers. Get a new computer, but wait until the new Mac Mini sized Mac Pro. Maybe. I mean, it's up to you, but it would be awesome...

 

[mackmgg]

Well that's good news and an easy check. Have you considered bringing it to Apple and asking for a repair estimate? It may be worth spending $250 to fix it and be able to relax and keep the computer for awhile than make a quick decision (and you're going to have to migrate everything anyway...and how will that be done if your old iMac won't turn on?).

Also, have you checked with your credit card company to see if they offer a free extended warranty on all your credit card purchases? Most credit cards do AND you do not have to file a claim the day the machine breaks. Usually you have 90 days. So if you bought the computer on June 5, 2017 (the day it was released) and you bought Applecare and got a 3 year warranty, that would expire June 5, 2020. Your credit card would extend it to June 5, 2021 which was a few weeks ago...you said your problem started several weeks ago so you could tell your credit cart company the problem began May 15, for example. They would pay for either the repair or the full price of your purchase.

Oh yeah I’ll second the credit card recommendation if you had apple care. I just went through that process and it was pretty easy. You only need to get a repair quote, and then they’ll pay you that money whether you get it fixed or not. So even if you decide to get a new computer anyway, you can use the repair costs towards it!

 

[kenoh]

That’s kind of my issue. I’ve started to view my office as the office. So I try and avoid it when not working etc! But I hate laptops. Even though I have a 13” MBP for work it’s always connected to a pair of 27” monitors, full size Apple keyboard and magic mouse 2.

I hear you. My handler shouts at me if she catches me in the office. If I am in here it is assumed I am working - not playing with photos so if I dare wander in "out of hours" I have to have a good reason.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I hear you. My handler shouts at me if she catches me in the office. If I am in here it is assumed I am working - not playing with photos so if I dare wander in "out of hours" I have to have a good reason.

I’m working more hours than I’m not working, so she just leaves me to it.

 

[Clix Pix]

Molly, even though you are far from a beginning creator looking for a "starter Mac," you'll be interested in this review on DPR:

2021 Apple M1 iMac (24-inch) Review: The best 'starter' Mac for creators

Don't be fooled by its colorful, family-friendly design – the new 24-inch iMac is capable of serious photo and video editing performance.

www.dpreview.com

 

[mollyc]

Molly, even though you are far from a beginning creator looking for a "starter Mac," you'll be interested in this review on DPR:

2021 Apple M1 iMac (24-inch) Review: The best 'starter' Mac for creators

Don't be fooled by its colorful, family-friendly design – the new 24-inch iMac is capable of serious photo and video editing performance.

www.dpreview.com

Thanks. I'm not sold on the 24" screen and know that if I have to get something immediately I am just going to want whatever the "real" model is that will come out within the next year. Although I'm not a professional, I am far beyond a starter computer and just think I will be disappointed in performance of what is available right now.

I'm really hoping just to keep my existing computer going for a bit longer. This was an interesting read, though, and I appreciate the link. 🙂

 

[mollyc]

btw, it’s not the RAM. After working beautifully for the past 3-4 days, it just failed again, with the aftermarket RAM still uninstalled. I will leave it unplugged again overnight, and most likely it will work just fine tomorrow.

The psu came the other day so we will continue with the plan of my husband swapping that out this weekend.

 

[Clix Pix]

You're welcome! Yes, I figured you'd pretty much already ruled out the M1 24" iMac for various reasons already discussed in this thread, but nonetheless the article would be of interest anyway. I was surprised to know that DPR even reviews computers -- I usually think of them as reviewing cameras, lenses and various photographic accessories. Of course for all of us digital photographers a computer is a very critical "photographic accessory!"

I hope that you'll be able to keep your current machine up and running for as long as needed so that when the next level of M-series Macs starts rolling out you'll have more options and be able to choose what will truly suit your needs. Having to get something in a rush, a compromise, isn't usually very satisfying and as you said, you'd more than likely wind up buying whatever you really want further down the road once it becomes available.

In the meantime, though, if things turn out that you do need to get something now, it sounds as though the best option would be the M1 Mac Mini with an external HD sized to your needs. That offers a lot more flexibility for both the short run and the long run......

Ah, so now it's clear that the problem with your current iMac isn't the RAM. That's good to be able to rule that out as the source of the failures. Fingers and toes crossed that the swapping out of the power supply solves everything!!!

 

[Apple fanboy]

Thanks. I'm not sold on the 24" screen and know that if I have to get something immediately I am just going to want whatever the "real" model is that will come out within the next year. Although I'm not a professional, I am far beyond a starter computer and just think I will be disappointed in performance of what is available right now.

I'm really hoping just to keep my existing computer going for a bit longer. This was an interesting read, though, and I appreciate the link. 🙂

As someone who has sold computer monitors for 15 years, I can tell you people’s next monitor is always the same size or bigger. Those that reduce in size (rare) always bring it back with buyers remorse. I think your right to pass on the 24” for that reason alone.

 

[mollyc]

You're welcome! Yes, I figured you'd pretty much already ruled out the M1 24" iMac for various reasons already discussed in this thread, but nonetheless the article would be of interest anyway. I was surprised to know that DPR even reviews computers -- I usually think of them as reviewing cameras, lenses and various photographic accessories. Of course for all of us digital photographers a computer is a very critical "photographic accessory!"

I hope that you'll be able to keep your current machine up and running for as long as needed so that when the next level of M-series Macs starts rolling out you'll have more options and be able to choose what will truly suit your needs. Having to get something in a rush, a compromise, isn't usually very satisfying and as you said, you'd more than likely wind up buying whatever you really want further down the road once it becomes available.

In the meantime, though, if things turn out that you do need to get something now, it sounds as though the best option would be the M1 Mac Mini with an external HD sized to your needs. That offers a lot more flexibility for both the short run and the long run......

Ah, so now it's clear that the problem with your current iMac isn't the RAM. That's good to be able to rule that out as the source of the failures. Fingers and toes crossed that the swapping out of the power supply solves everything!!!

yes, I was a little worried that it was the ram as I didn't know if we'd be able to send the PSU back or not if we didn't need it. for better or worse that isn't the issue.

 

[mollyc]

Plus, it is unlikely I can even get a new 24" in the next month anyway due to supply constraints and needing a CTO. Even a 16GB Mac Mini is a CTO.

 

[Apple fanboy]

btw, it’s not the RAM. After working beautifully for the past 3-4 days, it just failed again, with the aftermarket RAM still uninstalled. I will leave it unplugged again overnight, and most likely it will work just fine tomorrow.

The psu came the other day so we will continue with the plan of my husband swapping that out this weekend.

Good luck with it.

 

[Clix Pix]

As someone who has sold computer monitors for 15 years, I can tell you people’s next monitor is always the same size or bigger. Those that reduce in size (rare) always bring it back with buyers remorse. I think your right to pass on the 24” for that reason alone.

I'm probably the exception to that..... Many years ago when I had the first-generation Mac Pro I bought the 30" Apple Cinema Display to go along with it. This was to be my "Editing Machine." I will say that it worked wonderfully for editing and giving me plenty of screen real estate within which to work on and view my images. At the time I also had a 24" ACD connected to either an MBP or a Mac Mini, can't recall which now, and the idea I had was that I'd use that machine primarily for things like forums, emails, browsing the web, etc.

In theory, fine, but in reality and actual practice, I found that when I was on the "Editing Machine" and an email would come in that of course I'd read it and at times need to respond immediately to it, or that I'd take a break from my editing and go browse a forum or two....it was just quicker and easier to stay on the machine which was already turned on and up and running rather than fire up the one on the desk next to it just to read an email or two.

Reading text on that 30" ACD, browsing the web, reading forum posts and responding to those, doing email.....I found that the 30" ACD was just too darned big and that I was swiveling my head from side to side to read everything, which was annoying. Eventually as time went on I found myself using the machine with the 24" ACD attached to it much more frequently than the one with the 30" ACD. Finally at some point a few generations of Mac Pros later I sold the machine and the 30" ACD to a local fellow photographer/Mac user friend. I realized that although a larger monitor is great for photographic editing, unfortunately for me it isn't as good for everyday use.

Based on my previous and current experiences, I know I'd never manage well with TWO side-by-side displays, regardless of their size! For a while I had the 2012 iMac which was 21.5" and I quickly found that this was just a wee bit too small, that the earlier 24" iMac as well as that even earlier 24" ACD had been much more satisfying. So, when the time came to buy an external monitor for my current setup I knew that I'd be happy with a 24" display, and that has proven to be the case so far. Aside from that I would have difficulty handling a large, heavy display and wrestling it out of the box and up on to my workstation!

 

[Apple fanboy]

I'm probably the exception to that..... Many years ago when I had the first-generation Mac Pro I bought the 30" Apple Cinema Display to go along with it. This was to be my "Editing Machine." I will say that it worked wonderfully for editing and giving me plenty of screen real estate within which to work on and view my images. At the time I also had a 24" ACD connected to either an MBP or a Mac Mini, can't recall which now, and the idea I had was that I'd use that machine primarily for things like forums, emails, browsing the web, etc.

In theory, fine, but in reality and actual practice, I found that when I was on the "Editing Machine" and an email would come in that of course I'd read it and at times need to respond immediately to it, or that I'd take a break from my editing and go browse a forum or two....it was just quicker and easier to stay on the machine which was already turned on and up and running rather than fire up the one on the desk next to it just to read an email or two.

Reading text on that 30" ACD, browsing the web, reading forum posts and responding to those, doing email.....I found that the 30" ACD was just too darned big and that I was swiveling my head from side to side to read everything, which was annoying. Eventually as time went on I found myself using the machine with the 24" ACD attached to it much more frequently than the one with the 30" ACD. Finally at some point a few generations of Mac Pros later I sold the machine and the 30" ACD to a local fellow photographer/Mac user friend. I realized that although a larger monitor is great for photographic editing, unfortunately for me it isn't as good for everyday use.

Based on my previous and current experiences, I know I'd never manage well with TWO side-by-side displays, regardless of their size! For a while I had the 2012 iMac which was 21.5" and I quickly found that this was just a wee bit too small, that the earlier 24" iMac as well as that even earlier 24" ACD had been much more satisfying. So, when the time came to buy an external monitor for my current setup I knew that I'd be happy with a 24" display, and that has proven to be the case so far. Aside from that I would have difficulty handling a large, heavy display and wrestling it out of the box and up on to my workstation!

I’m the other way. A pair of 27” is my ideal. Great for the way I multitask and for photo editing.