I think I've had a change of heart on the ARM Macs.

[iBug2]

I agree that the M1 GPU is not dog crap (unlike the gpu in the Intel Mac mini). However plenty of other Intel Macs ship with better discrete GPUs, in particular the 16" MBP and the 2020 27" iMac. In the case of the 27" iMac, it is available with far better GPUs than the M1 in the 24" iMac.

Radeon Pro 580 in my 2017 iMac is much much better on paper than the M1 gpu. However when I edit photos on the M1 Air of my girlfriend, it's much much faster than editing them on my iMac. It's not even comparable. I just don't get how this small machine is this fast.

And the speed difference is not just due to CPU, when I enable metal GPU acceleration during photo editing, M1 gets a better boost than iMac and becomes 2-3X faster.

 

[iPadified]

Well it's obviously better than Intel, but it's not even as good as an Nvidia GPU from several years ago. I wont praise it too much as you still cannot game on it unless you like 30FPS on low, but it actually does run games now lol.

Also I know it's a memory shortage and it caching to the SSD. I can just compare to a 16GB machine and scroll on an endless news site, the 8GB machine is slow at loading... it's caching to the SSD because the ram is full. You NEED 16GB, 8GB is not enough unless you're that clueless and upgrading from an old Laptop and cannot tell the difference.

I've just wanted to confirm that, yeah searching on many videos, the 8GB is constantly holding the Mac up, it just isn't enough.

Gaming on an Air???? What did you expect?

 

[smirking]

I can't imagine buying an 8GB RAM machine in 2021, especially since it's soldered on and can't be changed.

This isn't your typical 8GB machine and 8GB is actually a lot more capable than most people believe.

I'm test driving an M1 MBP and I'm currently running the following:

1. Photoshop
2. Capture One Pro
3. PHPStorm
4. Firefox
5. Safari
6. Adobe Illustrator
7. Photos
8. Codekit
9. Pagico
10. MAMP w/3GB virtual server
11. Preview
12. Mail
13. Quickbooks
14. Apple Music

I've got more than few tabs open in Safari and more than a few in Firefox.

I'm just test driving this M1 while my 32GB 2018 Intel MBP is getting its battery replaced. I went with an 8GB model intentionally just to see if I could get by on it as an experiment. Consider me impressed. I've seriously considering keeping this 8GB M1 and selling my 32GB 2018 MBP, but I probably will end up returning it and getting a 16GB 16" MBP when they become available.

8GB is indeed a little tight for what I do, but I'm very very surprised at how little trouble I'm having.

 

[leman]

Well it's obviously better than Intel, but it's not even as good as an Nvidia GPU from several years ago.

Nvidia had fast GPUs in passively cooled laptops several years ago? You sure?

M1 GPU reaches around 80-90% of GTX 1650 Max-Q in unoptimized games, which IMO, is far from "terrible".

 

[AttoA]

But, Apple is banking on iOS games coming to the Mac rather than Windows/XBox/Playstation games coming to the Mac

I think Apple might be partially banking on the success of game streaming. If the web-app-based game streaming services become very good (and widespread), then it won't matter that your Mac is running a different architecture to that for which the game was made, and there would end up being a reduced case for choosing Windows for gaming (if any reasonably-sized title would always also release on the game streaming services). It would be a waste for Apple to focus on Mac becoming a gaming platform if they believe it wouldn't matter in the long run.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The day Apple "locks" down the Mac is when Apple removes the said features but the perfect time to do it so was the launch of M1 but the fact Apple did not shows Apple has no intention of Apple locking the Mac.

After the transition period ends, apple can suddenly pull the plug and flip the switch so macOS becomes a glorified iOS with no advanced feature people love today. I’d love to see how people reacts to all of that.

I think the Mac will be discontinued LONG before they have an opportunity to lock it down.

 

[JMacHack]

Well it's obviously better than Intel, but it's not even as good as an Nvidia GPU from several years ago. I wont praise it too much as you still cannot game on it unless you like 30FPS on low, but it actually does run games now lol.

That’s more to do with running games through translation than raw performance. Playing any games on Mac is a crapshoot because of that reason.

 

[Mcckoe]

Best igpu bar none, by a wide margin. Maybe that’s dog crap by gamer kiddie standards but unless you’re willing to pay scalper prices for 5 year old gpus, you can’t get better.

This conspiracy has been thrown around for more than a ****in decade now. They’re not locking down MacOS. Nobody would buy a Mac if they did and Apple knows it.

And Mac will never be a viable gaming platform, ever.

I use my Mac to Stream from my PS5 quite often. If they could stream the controller haptics, it might be my preferred way to game.

 

[Shirasaki]

I think the Mac will be discontinued LONG before they have an opportunity to lock it down.

Thats fine too, and sounds like something Apple will definitely do in the future once they reinvent all wheels they deem needed on iPadOS.

 

[sracer]

They don’t need to do it now. Remember. M1 is STILL a beta chip for Mac, no matter how long it has been for iOS devices. Designing a good chip is very difficult.

After the transition period ends, apple can suddenly pull the plug and flip the switch so macOS becomes a glorified iOS with no advanced feature people love today. I’d love to see how people reacts to all of that.

Exactly. It is pretty obvious, given the trajectory, where this ends up. We're not there yet, but that's where we're going...and it is a "slowly boiling a frog" type of metaphor at work.

Incremental steps, none of which on their own will be a red flag to cause people to jump off... but the end result is they're caught. Some will complain, as they do with iOS devices, that they're "locked in" and "too invested" in the ecosystem to switch out.

Until then, there will be the skeptics. It is not fruitful to attempt to convince anyone... just make sure that you're making the right decision for you.

 

[cmaier]

- I still have a feeling Apple will lock down Mac OS like IOS, and if that happens... it's dead to me. But if the EU do change the law to make it so Apple has to allow sideloading on IOS, that might never happen.

This is why the EU can’t have nice things.

 

[Shirasaki]

I don't believe that cause then that would make the Mac an iPad. Also the M1 is not a BETA product.

The A12Z Dev Kit Mac mini was the BETA kit. I would 100% expect macOS to remain the same as it now even after
the transition ends.

A12Z Dev kit acts more like an alpha kit Apple released to the general public tbh, and that still doesn’t change the fact that M1 is the first generation chip that is being installed on a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro.

Apple themselves said they treat the Mac different than iPhone and iPad and Craig said the Mac will always be able get
apps from ANYWHERE. See the 2020 WWDC interview with John Gurber.

Apple can say all they want, but if they are not willing to eliminate macOS, why widen menu bar elements and make menu items bigger, when macOS is being used with mouse and keyboard? Why they introduce features available on iOS and iPadOS to Mac, if Mac is a distinct product line and should be used very differently to iOS devices? Why they allow iOS and iPadOS apps to be run on Mac, if Mac is, well, a Mac for professional users and to complete professional tasks? Would professional photographers download an iOS version of Photoshop for their professional works (assuming Adobe allowing that)? I doubt it.

Someone else gives this boiling frog analogy which is amazing in this scenario. Craig Federighi can say whatever he wants regarding macOS future, but Apple WILL merge macOS and iPadOS. When the time comes, I’d like to see how you guys react to it.

 

[leman]

Exactly. It is pretty obvious, given the trajectory, where this ends up. We're not there yet, but that's where we're going...and it is a "slowly boiling a frog" type of metaphor at work.

People have been prediction the "death of Mac" for the last ten years and somehow the Mac is still there. I see no evidence whatsoever that we are moving towards a closed Apple ecosystem. I mean, it might be "obvious" to someone who gets there information from conspiracy blogs, but there is nothing in the programing interface that would indicate anything like that.

This is why the EU can’t have nice things.

I would argue that the EU can have many more nice things than the USA. Europeans love their bureaucracy and some EU decisions are definitely questionable, but it's nothing compared to the power of arbitrariness of their American colleagues.

 

[cmaier]

People have been prediction the "death of Mac" for the last ten years and somehow the Mac is still there. I see no evidence whatsoever that we are moving towards a closed Apple ecosystem. I mean, it might be "obvious" to someone who gets there information from conspiracy blogs, but there is nothing in the programing interface that would indicate anything like that.



I would argue that the EU can have many more nice things than the USA. Europeans love their bureaucracy and some EU decisions are definitely questionable, but it's nothing compared to the power of arbitrariness of their American colleagues.

And yet I see so many posts on here complaining about why things cost so much more in the EU than in the US, why features are not available in the EU, why products are not available in the EU, etc. The more a government controls what the product is, what it can do, what is must cost, what services must be supplied with it, how long the warranty must be, how repairable it must be, etc., the more expensive the product will be and the fewer choices you will have.

 

[09872738]

- I still have a feeling Apple will lock down Mac OS like IOS,

Not gonna happen

 

[sracer]

People have been prediction the "death of Mac" for the last ten years and somehow the Mac is still there. I see no evidence whatsoever that we are moving towards a closed Apple ecosystem. I mean, it might be "obvious" to someone who gets there information from conspiracy blogs, but there is nothing in the programing interface that would indicate anything like that.

I've never predicted the "death of Mac", nor am I doing so now. As I mentioned previously, the incremental steps taken, in and of themselves, are not concerning. You are free to believe that there is nothing in the programming interface to indicate a closing of openness. I don't have any incentive to convince you otherwise. You too should do what you believe is the correct action for you.

 

[09872738]

Apple WILL merge macOS and iPadOS. When the time comes, I’d like to see how you guys react to it.

Why would you even claim that? They won‘t, coz it makes no sense

 

[leman]

Apple can say all they want, but if they are not willing to eliminate macOS, why widen menu bar elements and make menu items bigger, when macOS is being used with mouse and keyboard?

Because it looks nice?

Why they introduce features available on iOS and iPadOS to Mac, if Mac is a distinct product line and should be used very differently to iOS devices?

Because this features make sense regardless of the platform? I assume you are talking about features like control center etc. — its just a convenient tool, regardless of whether your are looking at iOS, iPad OS or macOS. Not to mention that all these features have unique appearance and functionality on each platform.

Why they allow iOS and iPadOS apps to be run on Mac, if Mac is, well, a Mac for professional users and to complete professional tasks?

Why wouldn't they? Now that the Mac and the iOS devices share the same hardware platform, it's an easy enough thing to do, and some users welcome the functionality. I mean, Windows 11 will support android apps. Are you suggesting that Microsoft is turning PCs into a phone?

Someone else gives this boiling frog analogy which is amazing in this scenario. Craig Federighi can say whatever he wants regarding macOS future, but Apple WILL merge macOS and iPadOS. When the time comes, I’d like to see how you guys react to it.

If by "merging iPad OS and macOS" you mean that iPad will run a fully functional macOS, sure, I can see that happening one day. If you are talking about Apple locking in macOS instead, na, they are not that stupid.

 

[leman]

And yet I see so many posts on here complaining about why things cost so much more in the EU than in the US, why features are not available in the EU, why products are not available in the EU, etc. The more a government controls what the product is, what it can do, what is must cost, what services must be supplied with it, how long the warranty must be, how repairable it must be, etc., the more expensive the product will be and the fewer choices you will have.

We simply have taxes included in the price, and we have longer warranties by default. That's about it. It's another question that Apple is an USA-centric company and chooses not to implement certain features (like maps) for their European customers. Which is incidentally why I am using google maps - google has a big office in my city and they obviously take a lot of care to make sure that the maps are accurate.

 

[seek3r]

I can't imagine buying an 8GB RAM machine in 2021, especially since it's soldered on and can't be changed. As the 1.0 ARM Mac, it will be the first to have support dropped and be forgotten (remember the Intel Core Solo?)

For me, I have to wait for the Pro ARM Macs and hopefully a 32GB Max

And at least the solos were socketed and could be updated to a core 2 for a longer lifespan, that would be available for the M1s to extend their lifespan when they're dropped. That said Apple's been supporting hardware longer these days so they may not get support dropped as quickly as the core solos

 

[Shirasaki]

Because it looks nice?



Because this features make sense regardless of the platform? I assume you are talking about features like control center etc. — its just a convenient tool, regardless of whether your are looking at iOS, iPad OS or macOS. Not to mention that all these features have unique appearance and functionality on each platform.



Why wouldn't they? Now that the Mac and the iOS devices share the same hardware platform, it's an easy enough thing to do, and some users welcome the functionality. I mean, Windows 11 will support android apps. Are you suggesting that Microsoft is turning PCs into a phone?



If by "merging iPad OS and macOS" you mean that iPad will run a fully functional macOS, sure, I can see that happening one day. If you are talking about Apple locking in macOS instead, na, they are not that stupid.

Oh because they look “nice”. Sorry. Apple is not stupid to waste thousands of dollars to hire Apple engineer and developer to change the interface just to “make it nice”.

I’m not suggesting Microsoft will turn PC into a phone. Phone is a phone, but iPad and Mac are different. People don’t use their phones to edit excel sheet or create presentation all day long, but they can do it on iPad, and on a mac too. What if iPad can do 90% of stuff Mac can do at some point? And to me that’s a very real possibility, especially when iPad is attached to that expensive magic keyboard case.

Regarding Apple locking macOS, just look at T1/T2 chip MacBook Pro. Apple designs the computer that way so that offline data recovery is no longer possible. Good for privacy yeah, but it also mean savvy people wanting to hack into system to do interesting things would take more effort, and data recovery by third party shops no longer possible. Removing support for system extension also means tools trying to, say, control macOS behaviour and/or limit what macOS can do (Little Snitch) will be harder. I have seen article about firewall software on newer version of macOS no longer able to limit system service network traffic since they are whitelisted by macOS internally. What if someone don’t want macOS keeps phoning home? The list goes on and on.

 

[petvas]

They don’t need to do it now. Remember. M1 is STILL a beta chip for Mac, no matter how long it has been for iOS devices. Designing a good chip is very difficult.

After the transition period ends, apple can suddenly pull the plug and flip the switch so macOS becomes a glorified iOS with no advanced feature people love today. I’d love to see how people reacts to all of that.

The M1 is an amazing chip. If you think it's beta, then what do you say about Intel CPUs? They are probably in the alpha phase yet.

 

[Shirasaki]

The M1 is an amazing chip. If you think it's beta, then what do you say about Intel CPUs? They are probably in the alpha phase yet.

What do you mean alpha phase CPU? Intel Mac represented x86 Mac era, and M1 is the end of it and the start of Apple Silicon era. That’s how it is, and regardless of how we call it, M1 IS the first generation of Apple Silicon. Calling it “beta” because there is going to be issues and hiccups for every first generation of Apple consumer products (first generation iPhone, first generation iPad, both died rather quickly for obvious reason, as well as iPhone 4 ending horribly on iOS 7). Lack of optimised M1 app is one of those hiccups and development will need some time to catch up. When M2 is released, I bet most if not all mainstream applications (all kinds of browsers, Adobe suite, Microsoft Office for example) would be fully optimised for Apple Silicon and they will run amazingly well and better than their Intel counterparts.

 

[thunng8]

I have seen article about firewall software on newer version of macOS no longer able to limit system service network traffic since they are whitelisted by macOS internally.

this was removed after criticism by developers.

Apple removes criticised whitelist in macOS Big Sur 11.2

As of beta 2 of macOS 11.2, Apple's own apps can no longer bypass firewalls and VPNs

www.macworld.co.uk

Look I get that you love your conspiracies but what you describe will not happen, no matter how much you wish it to happen.

 

[leman]

Oh because they look “nice”. Sorry. Apple is not stupid to waste thousands of dollars to hire Apple engineer and developer to change the interface just to “make it nice”.

Are you serious? That's what they have been doing since Apple was first founded as a company. UI design is at the heart of Apple, and hey were the first ones to implement many things that others disregarded as unnecessary flippery. Starting with things like graphical interfaces and variable fonts. They even patented their rounded corner drawing algorithm.

I’m not suggesting Microsoft will turn PC into a phone. Phone is a phone, but iPad and Mac are different. People don’t use their phones to edit excel sheet or create presentation all day long, but they can do it on iPad, and on a mac too. What if iPad can do 90% of stuff Mac can do at some point? And to me that’s a very real possibility, especially when iPad is attached to that expensive magic keyboard case.

You suggested, that Apple allowing iOS apps to run on a Mac is a sign that they plan to merge the platforms. I pointed out that Microsoft allows to run Android apps on Windows 11. Since it is nonsensical to suggest that Microsoft want to fuse Android and Windows, I hoped this serves as an illustration that your logic is flawed.

Regarding Apple locking macOS, just look at T1/T2 chip MacBook Pro. Apple designs the computer that way so that offline data recovery is no longer possible. Good for privacy yeah, but it also mean savvy people wanting to hack into system to do interesting things would take more effort, and data recovery by third party shops no longer possible. Removing support for system extension also means tools trying to, say, control macOS behaviour and/or limit what macOS can do (Little Snitch) will be harder.

And now you are again confusing "locking in" and "not supporting my use case". Macs are not system for tinkerers and are not designed to be tinkered with easily. And can we please stop with the nonsense of "tech savvy people wanting to hack into systems". Tech savvy people don't want to hack into anything, they just want to be able to do their work. I am a tech savvy person and I am delighted that we finally have a properly secured system volume that I can't ruin by mistyping an elevated command. Sure, some people like to tinker with their systems, either for their job or their hobby. That's why modern Macs have reduced security profiles.

I have seen article about firewall software on newer version of macOS no longer able to limit system service network traffic since they are whitelisted by macOS internally. What if someone don’t want macOS keeps phoning home? The list goes on and on.

This issue was raised and Apple has responded to this concern by removing the internal whitelist entirely.

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