interesting, I have a 2021 M1 MBP (16") for home use and a HP laptop at work and don't really have a preference between the two off the top of my head. at work I'm plugged into a wireless keyboard 90%+ of the time, but at home basically never with my MBP. can do my usual 110+ WPM on all devices
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I visited the Apple Store today and tried out the new MacBook Pro keyboards...
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I was not able to type as fast on the M3 Max 16 keyboard but I don't hate it or anything. I guess I just love my Logitech Mx Keys and Mx Anywhere 3S mouse so I propped the Max on a stand. I can type considerably faster on the Mx Keys. The only problem is using the 3S mouse scroll wheel on web pages is just horribly jerky. I prefer the track pad and gestures so I went and got the black Magic Track pad and now I am completely happy. Yeah it seems like a lot of extra stuff to buy on top of an already expensive laptop. But I also have the Samsung Galaxy Tab S9+ and S23U so I also use the Keys and the 3S to control all 3 devices so it was worth the money to me. If your not happy with the MacBook keyboard it's so easy to buy whatever keyboard you feel best typing on. Below is a picture of the setup I ended up with.
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I have the full-sized (with numpad) Logitech MX Keys keyboard and it is an absolute joy to type on. I loathe using the cheap Microsoft keyboard my employer issued me for my desk at work.
That said I still love the keyboard on my 2021 14" MBP, but maybe that's because I had a butterfly keyboard laptop before that and I have some form of Stockholm Syndrome from finally having a not-as-bad keyboard.
I think it is just personal preference. I have ALWAYS even when they first came out, disliked the 2015 style MBP keyboards (ie the retina MBP keyboards). The travel is too much and the actuation force is too high. They felt mushy to me. I like the feel of my work 16" M1Max MBP probably the best of any Mac laptop I've ever owned (been using Macs since 2009). Not sure how the newer versions are but as long as they are going for a crisp typing feel, that's what I want.
Apple has stuck with the same keyboard design since switching to M1. Personally, I think the current design is miles ahead of the butterfly keyboards they replaced, and the keyboard is easy to type on.
I'm currently enrolled in a software development program and I have an old ass Thinkpad that's not cutting it. Borrowed a friends M2 Macbook pro for a few days and it's not subjective or opinion the keyboard is designed like ass to hurt your fingers I used to teach an ergonomics class.
. There's literally medical studies on this and and international ISO standards for recommended key travel for ergonomics. Apple and a lot of other laptop keyboards fail to meet the standard. In the pursuit of making thinner devices ergonomics have been thrown out the window which is a damn shame. The science backs this and we should all be collectively demanding keyboards that are more comfortable to use and aim to cause less musculoskeletal problems.
"Overall the results show that given similar activation force, larger key travel distances were associated with better performance and experience. The fastest typing speed and least discomfort and difficulty were observed for the device with the largest travel distance."
. There's literally medical studies on this and and international ISO standards for recommended key travel for ergonomics. Apple and a lot of other laptop keyboards fail to meet the standard. In the pursuit of making thinner devices ergonomics have been thrown out the window which is a damn shame. The science backs this and we should all be collectively demanding keyboards that are more comfortable to use and aim to cause less musculoskeletal problems.
"Overall the results show that given similar activation force, larger key travel distances were associated with better performance and experience. The fastest typing speed and least discomfort and difficulty were observed for the device with the largest travel distance."
Weak finger-strength era.
My preference is Cherry MX Blues with 4 mm travel and 60 centinewtons (their highest) of force required for activation. And this is what I use on the desktop. But I also like the new Apple MacBook Pro keyboards too. But I'm a tennis player and also lift. There are all sorts of external keyboards available if you have individual issues. It appears that the vast majority of people are fine with Apple's current keyboards as I don't see many complaints about them.
You can always use older MacBook Pros if you want a different feel. The Retina generation was soft to press while the prior generation had more key travel.
Not a single point you made refutes anything I said so I'm not sure why you're even replying. It's not just Apple that is guilty here it's most laptop vendors. Medical proof and an ISO standard saying we need more key travel as it's better for ergonomics and speed. I don't care what everyone is fine with I want the equipment we use to be as healthy as possible.¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Why do you think that my goal was to refute what you were saying.
People vary widely as do their capacities and preferences. If you want something else, use an external keyboard.
The vast majority of people don't care about your point.
If you don't like what industry produces, make your own or find another solution.
I maintain todo lists, long-term and short-term. Keyboards aren't on any of my lists.
I am extremely happy with my current setup. My priorities for hardware are an iPad mini, and a 2020 iMac 27.
1. What's the ISO standard for recommendation of key travel of keyboards? I never heard of that standard before, and I'd like to look it up.
2. Are laptop keyboards designed for daily use, or "in a pinch" use?
1. ISO 9241 recommends key displacement between 2-4mm but allows for a min/max of 1.5mm-6mm while still meeting the standard. There are also recommendations for key height, actuation force, etc, it goes on and on.
2. It doesn't matter but I will say most businesses are providing laptops to employees for daily work use, most people buy laptops as opposed to desktop computers so I think it's even more important we consider ergonomics in laptop keyboards
I noticed it too having come from a 2013 Retina to an M1 Pro. Also, having played with various models at the store, seems that the MBA's keyboards felt a little softer and nicer.
That being said, at work I use a company-provided generic keyboard that I don't even know the name of. Its travel is very deep, full desktop kind, and I definitely type much faster and more accurately on that thing than on my Mac.
That being said, at work I use a company-provided generic keyboard that I don't even know the name of. Its travel is very deep, full desktop kind, and I definitely type much faster and more accurately on that thing than on my Mac.
The reason is that the butterfly keyboard from the previous gen was so bad that they praised the new one when compared. There are plenty of better keyboards out there, even the Air keyboard is better.