If Apple notebooks were built like Thinkpads, I would own one

[moot]

The Z is an abomination, and I will be the first to admit that it's the bastard child of the Lenovo merger.

The equal to it is the toilet seat ibooks in orange and blue

seriously wtf was apple smoking at the time

Each to their own but I seriously love my tangerine.

and it is still going strong after more than 6 years of use. It is fine for lots and lots of simple duties.

 

[Ryan T.]

So make up your mind. Do you want a bulky ThinkPad or an elegant Porsche. You're contradicting yourself there, and a Porsche was by far the worst car you could pick for an analogy to support your opinion. You should have picked a Hummer. The Apple is the Porsche, not the ThinkPad.

Top of the line Thinkpads (T Series) are actually thinner and lighter than their MBP/AlBook counterparts.

I have a T42 with a 14" SXGA+ screen that weighs 4.9 lbs travel weight. And gets me 6 hours of battery life with a 9 cell battery. Good luck getting that on a MBP.

 

[danny_w]

Personally, I have never been in love with the ThinkPads, but mostly just because of Windows and that dumb red stick (I never got used to it). I agree that they are built like a tank, and also think that they are probably the best looking of any Windows laptop available today. I have an AlPB, but based on all of the problems I have been reading about with the new Apple notebooks (and no, it isn't anything new), this may be both my first and last Apple notebook ever.

 

[mark!]

Top of the line Thinkpads (T Series) are actually thinner and lighter than their MBP/AlBook counterparts.

I have a T42 with a 14" SXGA+ screen that weighs 4.9 lbs travel weight. And gets me 6 hours of battery life with a 9 cell battery. Good luck getting that on a MBP.

Which has half the VRAM, half the bus speed, slower DVD writing thingy, no firewire, slower processor, only runs XP, etc etc.

 

[dpaanlka]

Top of the line Thinkpads (T Series) are actually thinner and lighter than their MBP/AlBook counterparts.

I have a T42 with a 14" SXGA+ screen that weighs 4.9 lbs travel weight. And gets me 6 hours of battery life with a 9 cell battery. Good luck getting that on a MBP.

No MBP is available with a screen smaller than 15.4" display. That's quite a difference. Also, ThinkPads are not available with a 17" display under any configuration.

Those T systems also have some really crap standard configurations. 40gb hard drive?? And still with the tray-loaders ahhh!!!

 

[zap2]

Top of the line Thinkpads (T Series) are actually thinner and lighter than their MBP/AlBook counterparts.

I have a T42 with a 14" SXGA+ screen that weighs 4.9 lbs travel weight. And gets me 6 hours of battery life with a 9 cell battery. Good luck getting that on a MBP.

Well Apple does not make a 14'' MBP so its really unfair to compare a real laptop with a fake one

 

[howesey]

iv always wondered why IBM doesnt even put their chips in their own laptops! also, what is that "access IBM" button that's on all thinkpads? what does it do?

IBM do not make or own them. It's a Chinese company who put their logo on. IBM sold their computer division off the other year.

 

[Core Trio]

All I know is that of the 3 macbooks I have actually used, all had the whine and moo. All macbook pros on display at my Apple store (5 of them total) had the whine so loudly that I could hear it in the store. Not good statistics for me right now.. After seeing my roommate's 5 day old macbook start mooing like crazy and whining louder every day, I am officially scared away from apple laptops for awhile

I find it very hard to believe that all the display models were whining in the store so terribly loud. At both Apple locations in my area i have yet to hear any whining laptops, they've been hot, but completely silent. Also, i have 3 friends who are all happy new owners of Macbooks, Ive used all 3. No whine, no moo, no problem.

 

[Chrispy]

I find it very hard to believe that all the display models were whining in the store so terribly loud. At both Apple locations in my area i have yet to hear any whining laptops, they've been hot, but completely silent. Also, i have 3 friends who are all happy new owners of Macbooks, Ive used all 3. No whine, no moo, no problem.

Sorry that you find that hard to believe, but you could hear the whine on all of them. My roommate was with me and she heard it too. I asked an employee about it and he got flustered and said it was just normal for them to do that. The macbooks on display were whining too but at least you had to put your ear up to them to hear it. The MBPs were so loud all you had to be doing was standing in front of one to hear it. I just can't figure out how some people have been problem free while others on this forum (myself included) have had nothing but problems.

You may not believe my statement, but it is true as can be.

 

[dpaanlka]

Sorry that you find that hard to believe, but you could hear the whine on all of them. My roommate was with me and she heard it too. I asked an employee about it and he got flustered and said it was just normal for them to do that. The macbooks on display were whining too but at least you had to put your ear up to them to hear it. The MBPs were so loud all you had to be doing was standing in front of one to hear it. I just can't figure out how some people have been problem free while others on this forum (myself included) have had nothing but problems.

You may not believe my statement, but it is true as can be.

My Mom's new 17" MacBook Pro doesn't wine or moo. What are all you crazy people talking about?

EDIT: She bought hers two days ago.

 

[Chrispy]

I have been trying to figure out what the story is on the MBPs in another thread. I know they don't moo anymore, but every single display model I have seen whines like crazy. However, those display models have been there since the MBP first came out. I'm hoping the newer models don't do it anymore.

 

[Killyp]

Mine's fine. I can hear the fan sometimes, but I don't care. It's an awful lot quieter than my dad's Dell Inspiron (which sounds like an oven)!!!

 

[bousozoku]

Based on my experience supporting IBM machines, I wouldn't be so quick to claim that they're better than Apple machines.

In one instance, the owner of the company bought the top of the line ($6000+) IBM ThinkPad and wanted it set up. When I was testing the remote connection to our communications server, it wouldn't work. Add to this that the machine was so new that IBM sent manuals for the next model down because they didn't have the correct manuals ready.

When finished, it took 6 calls to IBM, 4 IBM support people, a DSP modem firmware downgrade, and a lot more hours than anyone wanted to admit.

No, that's not typical of IBM. Usually, they're much worse, but consumers thankfully don't see the volume of problems.

 

[Chrispy]

It it funny how people all have different experiences with customer service. I have always had horrible service from Apple. However, when I had an IBM thinkpad IBM was always very helpful when I had problems. It seems some people on this forum have had the exact opposite experience tho.. strange.

 

[yadmonkey]

Lets drop my thinkpad from 6 feet and your macbook pro, and see which one breaks more

I can't argue with that. In fact, as a longtime Mac user and technician, I mostly agree with your rant, except that you can't run OS X on a Thinkpad, so it's Apple notebooks for me, even if they are not built to be sturdy.

But Apple has made a laptop which is, in my opinion, as sexy as any they make today and as tough as a Thinkpad - the Lombard/Pismo. In 7 years of fixing thousands of Macs and PCs, I've seen every kind of abuse and I've always been impressed with the resillience of both Thinkpads and the Lombards/Pismos. Here's my own story...

When not in use, my Lombard sits on a shelf about 3 feet under another shelf which is rotatable and used to hold a lava lamp. Once I tripped on the power cord for the lamp and the glass part of the lamp came out of the base and the fat part of the glass crashed right down on top of my closed Lombard with 100% of the weight, plus the momentum from the fall. Do you know how heavy those things are?? I was certain I'd open it to see a smashed LCD... not only was the LDC and backlight fine, but there wasn't even a skuff on the finish on the back of the screen. Try that with a TiBook or Aluminum or MBP!!

And I still think they are sexy as hell design-wise - beautiful curves and the finish on my six year-old Lombard barely shows any age.

I think Apple often oversteps the line of good function in order to give their products "sex" appeal. Hell, I'd buy a beige Macbook or MBP if it was as sturdy and reliable as a Lombard.

 

[DevilsRejection]

Thanks for agreeing with me. I only can wish that the redesigns will be better. The iBook got a new name and look, but the Powerbook just got a new name and an iSight

I hope they offer an even smaller notebook because the 13 inch is still too big for my taste

 

[dpaanlka]

Thanks for agreeing with me. I only can wish that the redesigns will be better. The iBook got a new name and look, but the Powerbook just got a new name and an iSight

I hope they offer an even smaller notebook because the 13 inch is still too big for my taste

The PowerBook design is still industry-leading though. Even after 3 years. How can you complain about it?

Jesus I remember when 2" thick was normal. Oh wait.. it still is on PCs.

 

[Counterfit]

Actually the Aluminum skin is only there for aesthetics, and for protection from the elements. The actual stiffness of the computer is provided by an internal skeleton.

Er, did you read the link in my post? Anodized aluminum is very stiff, especially when used in combination with the magnesium frame inside. Take out the respective frames and the PB/MBP will be much stiffer than anything (again, possibly excepting Thinkpads with CFRP, I'm not sure how stiff that is, but I bet it's pretty damn stiff)

 

[psycho bob]

Thanks for agreeing with me. I only can wish that the redesigns will be better. The iBook got a new name and look, but the Powerbook just got a new name and an iSight

I hope they offer an even smaller notebook because the 13 inch is still too big for my taste

The 12in Powerbook was one of the most underrated Apple products of all time. It was beautifully proportioned, powerful for its size, had superb battery life and enjoyable to use anywhere. Had it had a backlit keyboard and FW800 I would have bought one in a shot. The new MB aren't that much larger area wise just wider given the screen dimensions.

The thing with the latter G4 Powerbook's and new MBP's is from a design point of view they are without equal. I'm not just saying that as a fan of Apple design but whenever a person see's one there heads turn whether they know what it is or not. Very few PC notebooks can do that. I've only ever found them a joy to use, comfortable keyboard, great port locations and nice large trackpads.

Battery life could be better, GPU's could be faster but I have no other complaints and none of those are worth spoiling the design over. People are quick to criticise the well publicised issues with early MBP's but I'm yet to see compelling reasons against the actual design. The TiBooks were good pieces of design but I'll be the first to admit they were a little flimsy, the AlBooks corrected this.

 

[DevilsRejection]

I'm not complaining about the design folks, just the build quality and first generation issues that seem to happen everytime Apple launches a new product.

The current designs are pretty, but I'm curious to see the next iteration since Apple always seems to one up itself. I'm hoping for a notebook with less than a 13 inch screen.

EDIT: And you are right, I LOVED the 12 inch PB, if that baby had intel guts my first Mac wouldn't have been this Intel iMac I own now.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

It it funny how people all have different experiences with customer service. I have always had horrible service from Apple. However, when I had an IBM thinkpad IBM was always very helpful when I had problems. It seems some people on this forum have had the exact opposite experience tho.. strange.

Why is that strange? That happens with in any huge company where thousands of customer service calls are made every day. There's also going to be defects on computers when thousands are mass produce. Both of these things happen with every company. Customer serivce quality and product quality are always going to have variations when looking at such a huge sample.

 

[psycho bob]

I'm not complaining about the design folks, just the build quality and first generation issues that seem to happen everytime Apple launches a new product.

The current designs are pretty, but I'm curious to see the next iteration since Apple always seems to one up itself. I'm hoping for a notebook with less than a 13 inch screen.

EDIT: And you are right, I LOVED the 12 inch PB, if that baby had intel guts my first Mac wouldn't have been this Intel iMac I own now.

First gen issues I agree is a big issue but then we just expect them now. To be honest the 17in MBP and MB have been fine, for me the 'mooing' is a none issue. I can't fault Apple's build quality though, never seen a machine that has been any worse then your average mainstream PC.

I would love a return of the 12in but it isn't going to happen. A small tablet may be the best we can hope for.

 

[wako]

Er, did you read the link in my post? Anodized aluminum is very stiff, especially when used in combination with the magnesium frame inside. Take out the respective frames and the PB/MBP will be much stiffer than anything (again, possibly excepting Thinkpads with CFRP, I'm not sure how stiff that is, but I bet it's pretty damn stiff)

Maybe you should read your link again, and then actually look up Anodized Aluminum. On wikipedia, when you actually look up ANODIZED ALUMINUM, it talks about saying it is used for "its aesthetic and corrosion protection properties."

From reading your link you must have gotten the impression it was strong because it said "its hardness makes it suitable for use as an abrasive and as a component in cutting tools." Ironically when i clicked on cutting tools and clicked several links of the different types, it said nothing of how it was used because of its strength. Instead it talks about how some of the drill bits and what not is used to cut through "softer alloys like aluminum."

If you truely believe in the stiffness of Aluminum SO MUCH. I challenge you to do something. Make a video of course. Drop your Aluminum battery on its side, so the excess Aluminum would hit the ground first. Drop it say ONE FOOT from the air onto concrete, and see how easily it would bend. In fact if you simply took out your battery and tried to bend it with your hand you could.

I personally had a 12'' Aluminum PB and the battery got bent on the corner (the extra battery was in my book bag and somehow got bent). I was able to bend it back BY HAND.

I will give you though that Aluminum Oxide (product of anodized aluminum) has more strength then just Aluminum, but it is no where near as much as you seem to try to proclaim it.

 

[psycho bob]

If you truely believe in the stiffness of Aluminum SO MUCH. I challenge you to do something. Make a video of course. Drop your Aluminum battery on its side, so the excess Aluminum would hit the ground first. Drop it say ONE FOOT from the air onto concrete, and see how easily it would bend. In fact if you simply took out your battery and tried to bend it with your hand you could.

I personally had a 12'' Aluminum PB and the battery got bent on the corner (the extra battery was in my book bag and somehow got bent). I was able to bend it back BY HAND.

Why the heck would you want to do that

Aluminium will bend, it is soft in its raw form compared to other metals but I don't really see your point. I can lift my 17in Powerbook up open by grabbing one of its corners; it doesn't creek, bend or flex it is plenty strong enough. There is a big difference between a materials properties and how it behaves used in a structure. The design of the Al models is stiff enough.

Aluminum can indeed be straightened out if bent, in what way is this bad? It is still very strong. I've seen PC plastic notebooks and TiBooks dropped all of which suffered damage that could not simply be 'bent' out. The Ti construction involved gluing the material on to an internal chassis, the panels were very thin and easily became punctured or sprained. Once sprung they were also hard to glue back. Plastic's can be designed to adsorb (lexan for one) impact but most PC cases just crack breaking clips and shredding screw holes. The Ti models didn't have the rigidity of the Al models because although as a raw material it is very strong and rigid it was used in such thin sheets such properties were not present.

The move to Al not only allowed for better heat management but also thicker one piece shells which are inherantly more rigid without sacrificing too much in the way of weight. This is why I stress that construction is every bit as important as the choice of material itself. As Apple did with the use of Polycarbonate they maximise their designs for the chosen materials.

 

[yadmonkey]

The thing with the latter G4 Powerbook's and new MBP's is from a design point of view they are without equal. I'm not just saying that as a fan of Apple design but whenever a person see's one there heads turn whether they know what it is or not.

That's great if you are buying a notebook to turn heads.