If Apple releases Net-book at MW 09 will you buy?

[macbook123]

I'm re-posting from another thread. There will be no Net-book for the following very simple reasons:

*Steve Jobs said it in the question session after the Oct 14 event.

*There are already way too many new products scheduled, which are almost 100% certainly going to come out: a) iMac b) Mac Mini, c) 20&30 inch monitors, d) iPhone Nano.

*It would take away from the market of the Air

I don't even know why this is a rumor. It's just impossible.

 

[NT1440]

Says who? I don't, but it's not hard to imagine someone pondering with lightweight computer to get, including MBA's Thinkpad X-series, Sony Vaios, and, of course, netbooks, listing pros and cons.

Well considering that most people buying netbooks are the people wanting an inexpensive computer, I dont think anyone with that mindframe is considering an air.

 

[Tosser]

I'm re-posting from another thread. There will be no Net-book for the following very simple reasons:

*Steve Jobs said it in the question session after the Oct 14 event.

We've been through this: Jobs have said many things that weren't true. I never quite understood why some people believe anything and everything that man says.

*There are already way too many new products scheduled, which are almost 100% certainly going to come out: a) iMac b) Mac Mini, c) 20&30 inch monitors, d) iPhone Nano.

We're talking about a multi-billion dollar company here. Not some small niche player with three engineers having to think "either or".

*It would take away from the market of the Air

I think netbooks as it is takes away from ultralights of any kind. The question is, does Apple want to offer something and get a piece of the products people go to, or do they simply want to loose out to competitors netbooks?

I don't even know why this is a rumor. It's just impossible.

Sure. Because Stevieboy said so …

Well considering that most people buying netbooks are the people wanting an inexpensive computer, I dont think anyone with that mindframe is considering an air.

Some people are interested in a small computer first, second thoughts are feature sets and third price. Very seldomly do people begin with "I have, say, US$300 – now on what can I blow it". Of course money matters, I'm not saying it don't, but usually it's a limit put on after having realised one's wishes, wants and needs and having checked what's "out there", what's worth buying in that context.

 

[Maven1975]

No, that's simplifying it too much. Although that it's true, it only adheres to a "general" consumer, not the individual. Hence, a PocketPC will never be a "fully featured laptop". However, if you take what you say and apply it to said individual, it certainly can be, and it has thus lost all meaning.


Says who? The only company that seems to be outphasing FW is Apple. FW-equipped shipped laptops are on the rise, and there are no heir to take over (No, not USB 3.0 – it may be faster, but it's one-way, and can't do half of what firewire can).

You claim that USB is "on the way in"? Name me one computer which ships with it. And of course, name me one pro audio interface manufacturer who will switch from FW to USB 3.0 when USB 3 comes out. Hell, do the same with a manufacturer of pro video gear.
Impossible? Well, then don't go about claiming those things.


Yet your beloved MBA still shipped with optical discs and not a card reader with the install dmg on, say, an SDHC-card.

Further, although CD sales are going down, it's very seldomly possible to buy CD quality (or lack thereof) on anything but optical discs. We don't all want 128kbps MP3/4s.


So? There are some things that are downright impossible to do through the web by todays standards and speeds. It doesn't matter how it may look in twenty years – unless of course you intend to use your recently purchased computer in twenty years? Quite the investment. I buy computers for the world of today, since I need them today – not twenty years down the line.
Nor would I want sensitive and/or work related stuff uploaded to some third party – even if it was possible to do audio, video, PS'ing (which I don't) over the web.


Of course I do. But that doesn't mean that then everything is not only a-okay, but excellent over here in the Apple-fold.

It is painfully obvious that Apple is presing on into a different direction and it is disturbing several users.

Examples:
FW, Display Port, Disc Drives

Are we going to whine that there is no HDMI on their laps as well?

I do understand that the Air was shipped with Restore DVD's, but you are omitting the fact that they developed Remote Disc. Installing Via wireless N is equal to faster than internal super drives. If you can not afford WIFI, you don't need an Air. (Air because it is light, but also a wireless dependent device)

USB 3.0 will be adopted by every manufacturer. The name has been burnt and branded into consumers brains. I think that Apple will chose to go down this road to simplify their devices further.

To add, I feel that we may see OS updates (10.7,10.8 and so on) available via iTunes. Apple is becoming very conscious of packaging, shipping, and other costs that are cutting into their profits and adding unneeded waste. Additionally, it could/would help curb piracy.

The argument of CD audio quality is not valid. If you are a true Audiophile, even thinking of listening to a CD on a laptop would make you cringe.

Who needs a card reader?

http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-SDSDP...7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1230612919&sr=8-7

Back to firewire, take a step back and look at Apple as of late.

Glossy only. Pro's hate it
FW cut. Pro's Hate it
LED Cinema Display: Pro's hate it.

But the normal consumer LOVES it! This is why I THINK Firewire is on the way out. Why is firewire (Esp. 800) so scarce on PC's? Royalty charges, lack of exposure, misrepresentation? I think it might be a little of all.

As far as you twenty year statement, I would cut that in half. Again, I think my Air does everything I need until USB 3.0 is integrated. At that point, I will just update the system. These are not the PPC days. We are on the Intel update train now. Expect your computers to drastically reduce in price within 12-15 months.

 

[Tosser]

It is painfully obvious that Apple is presing on into a different direction and it is disturbing several users.

Examples:
FW, Display Port, Disc Drives

Are we going to whine that there is no HDMI on their laps as well?

You think that's the same as omitting firewire?

I do understand that the Air was shipped with Restore DVD's, but you are omitting the fact that they developed Remote Disc.

You realise that this is merely a workaround for the introduced problems of the tapered sides. That it still does not amounts to "optical discs are dead", right?

Installing Via wireless N is equal to faster than internal super drives.

It's not.

If you can not afford WIFI, you don't need an Air.

Strawman. I never argued I, nor anyone else, could not afford Wi-Fi, nor was I pretending that such a thing was or should be a parameter.

(Air because it is light, but also a wireless dependent device)

Ah, yes. That's a real argument
Next you'll tell me that the 15" MacBook is a computer for "pros" …

USB 3.0 will be adopted by every manufacturer.

I never said anything of the sort. I am saying that no manufacturer of, say audio interfaces, are saying (or showing) that USB 3.0 is the heir to FIREWIRE. Quite the difference.

The name has been burnt and branded into consumers brains. I think that Apple will chose to go down this road to simplify their devices further.

See above. And please quit with the strawman argumentation.

To add, I feel that we may see OS updates (10.7,10.8 and so on) available via iTunes. Apple is becoming very conscious of packaging, shipping, and other costs that are cutting into their profits and adding unneeded waste. Additionally, it could/would help curb piracy.

Obviously you think that Apple is in a vacuum, and that all the data people need can be had from iTunes. The reality is, there's a whole world outside of 128kbps MP4s, OS X-updates and iPhone Apps.

The argument of CD audio quality is not valid. If you are a true Audiophile, even thinking of listening to a CD on a laptop would make you cringe.

You are nuts. Stop with the strawman argumentation, will you. It's called "ripping" and with the use of an external DAC it's as good as CD quality (i.e. 16bit/44.1kHz) gets. Further, I use my computer for audio work which often entails burning a cd, getting CD-quality (and better )audio into (and out) of the computer.
Besides, "audiophile" smacks of snake-oil. It's a term worn proudly only by people who believe their ability to hear goes well into the microwave spectrum – you know head-fi'ers.

Who needs a card reader?

Are you serious? Phones these days have swappable cards, cameras these days have swappable cards, video cameras (some) have swappable cards, many recorders have swappable cards, PDAs have swappable cards.

Who needs a card reader? Man, are you ever out and about for more than an hour at a time with your lappie?

http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-SDSDP...7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1230612919&sr=8-7

Ah, yes, let's go buy such a card for all our stuff. And when you're out and about and have to buy another card in some shop, you will be **** out of luck, because you don't carry an external card reader and you don't have any card reader in your laptop.

Back to firewire, take a step back and look at Apple as of late.

Glossy only. Pro's hate it
FW cut. Pro's Hate it
LED Cinema Display: Pro's hate it.

But the normal consumer LOVES it! This is why I THINK Firewire is on the way out. Why is firewire (Esp. 800) so scarce on PC's? Royalty charges, lack of exposure, misrepresentation? I think it might be a little of all.

We have gone through this over and over and over again:
1 Firewire on shipped computers are ON THE RISE.
2 Are you trying to convince anyone by saying that normal consumers "LOVES" the nixing of FW? What's to love? Seriously, at most they're indifferent.
3 consumers "loves" that there are no choice of matte? Are you serious? If lowest common denominator consumers can get their glossy screens why even care about a matte option?
4 It's about time they stopped calling the 15" MB "MacBook Pro". They shouldn't try to piggy back on the rennome WE gave them, while with the other hand catering solely to lowest common denominator consumers.

As far as you twenty year statement, I would cut that in half.

Good for you. But you still buy a computer to use now and not one that might be good in ten years time, now would you?

Again, I think my Air does everything I need until USB 3.0 is integrated.

So, as of now, it doesn't?

At that point, I will just update the system. These are not the PPC days. We are on the Intel update train now. Expect your computers to drastically reduce in price within 12-15 months.

What's your point? That because it becomes cheaper, USB 3 is suddenly the heir to FW? Or because the tech becomes cheaper to buy a computer all of sudden we will all just download everything, even if there isn't sufficient bandwidth? I really can't see the point in what you're saying, other than one should buy something that doesn't fulfill one's needs, because in THE FUTURE it will become cheaper. And, frankly, that doesn't make any sense.

 

[Maven1975]

You think that's the same as omitting firewire?



You realise that this is merely a workaround for the introduced problems of the tapered sides. That it still does not amounts to "optical discs are dead", right?


It's not.


Strawman. I never argued I, nor anyone else, could not afford Wi-Fi, nor was I pretending that such a thing was or should be a parameter.


Ah, yes. That's a real argument
Next you'll tell me that the 15" MacBook is a computer for "pros" …




I never said anything of the sort. I am saying that no manufacturer of, say audio interfaces, are saying (or showing) that USB 3.0 is the heir to FIREWIRE. Quite the difference.



See above. And please quit with the strawman argumentation.


Obviously you think that Apple is in a vacuum, and that all the data people need can be had from iTunes. The reality is, there's a whole world outside of 128kbps MP4s, OS X-updates and iPhone Apps.



You are nuts. Stop with the strawman argumentation, will you. It's called "ripping" and with the use of an external DAC it's as good as CD quality (i.e. 16bit/44.1kHz) gets. Further, I use my computer for audio work which often entails burning a cd, getting CD-quality (and better )audio into (and out) of the computer.
Besides, "audiophile" smacks of snake-oil. It's a term worn proudly only by people who believe their ability to hear goes well into the microwave spectrum – you know head-fi'ers.


Are you serious? Phones these days have swappable cards, cameras these days have swappable cards, video cameras (some) have swappable cards, many recorders have swappable cards, PDAs have swappable cards.

Who needs a card reader? Man, are you ever out and about for more than an hour at a time with your lappie?




Ah, yes, let's go buy such a card for all our stuff. And when you're out and about and have to buy another card in some shop, you will be **** out of luck, because you don't carry an external card reader and you don't have any card reader in your laptop.



We have gone through this over and over and over again:
1 Firewire on shipped computers are ON THE RISE.
2 Are you trying to convince anyone by saying that normal consumers "LOVES" the nixing of FW? What's to love? Seriously, at most they're indifferent.
3 consumers "loves" that there are no choice of matte? Are you serious? If lowest common denominator consumers can get their glossy screens why even care about a matte option?
4 It's about time they stopped calling the 15" MB "MacBook Pro". They shouldn't try to piggy back on the rennome WE gave them, while with the other hand catering solely to lowest common denominator consumers.



Good for you. But you still buy a computer to use now and not one that might be good in ten years time, now would you?


So, as of now, it doesn't?


What's your point? That because it becomes cheaper, USB 3 is suddenly the heir to FW? Or because the tech becomes cheaper to buy a computer all of sudden we will all just download everything, even if there isn't sufficient bandwidth? I really can't see the point in what you're saying, other than one should buy something that doesn't fulfill one's needs, because in THE FUTURE it will become cheaper. And, frankly, that doesn't make any sense.

99% of the time, Ripping Audio is going to mess with the masters quality/encoding. Even if you can achieve a perfect duplication, what percentile of MBP owners are doing exactly this exact operation?

Please don't discount or offend anyone here that knows there is a difference in quality A/V gear. That is a separate discussion entirely.

Why would I need more than 128 GB and a few 8 GB flash cards? Good luck sicking you beloved CD/DVD Disc's into your pocket while traveling. Why would anyone buy an Air if they were doing your type of heavy lifting? They wouldn't!

Although, I have edited a few HD iMovies without issues and transferred them to a SD card for playback on my PS3. The PS3 drive can not keep up with the files when trying to play them off a DVD. Imagine that. How did I get the files on the MBA in the first place you ask? I have an AVCHD camcorder that uses SD cards.

After taking apart a MBA, I can tell you that there is no room for any type of CD/DVD drive. There was clearly no intention of installing one. In addition, the new MBP's have tapered sides.

Apple's own keynote said their view is that technology is moving away from CD/DVD medium.

In Apple's eyes, the 15" is for Pro's. Like I said, There are other options out there.

I never said USB 3.0 would be the heir to firewire. I just think it will be the next choice for Apple with its recent decisions.

Firewire shipped computers seem to be on the decrease lately at Apple.

I only claimed that digital deliver is going to be a goal for them.

The MBA is a perfect machine for my needs. When USB 3.0 arrives (As I think it will), I will upgrade.

As for the WIFI comment, It was a statement of fact. The Air and most netbooks thrive in a wireless environment. Everyone.. If you cant afford Wifi, don't but an Air. Period.

Bandwidth in the USA is still an issue. I only get 20 MBPS D/L in AZ, but other countries, like Japan have awesome bandwidth.

 

[Tosser]

99% of the time, Ripping Audio is going to mess with the masters quality/encoding. Even if you can achieve a perfect duplication, what percentile of MBP owners are doing exactly this exact operation? Please don't discount or offend anyone here that knows there is a difference in quality gear.

LOL, are you saying you're a head-fi'er?

Seriosly, a proper rip to lossless or uncompressed will certainly not affect the original (a bought cd is no "Master"), nor will it affect any encoding. It is a bit-for-bit copy.

Why would I need more than 128 GB and a few 8 GB flash cards? Good luck sicking you beloved CD/DVD Disc's into your pocket while traveling.

You continue with your strawman argumentation. I never said I would travel with CD's – there's a reason I rip my stuff. A laptop (or netbook) is for much else besides travelling. Did I mention "in the field"? I think so.

Why would anyone buy an Air if they were doing that type of heavy lifting? They wouldn't!

What "heavy lifting"?

Apple's own keynote said their view is that technology is moving away from CD/DVD medium.

Yes, and other banalities. Of course we are, but that is not to say that optical media is already in the past. We may be "moving away" from it, but we're hardly anywhere near it.

Let's have this conversation again when Apple ships their computers with the OS on flash or similar.

In Apple's eyes, the 15" is for Pro's. Like I said, There are other options out there.

Is it now? I don't see anything but the monicker being "pro" about it. In fact, Jobs mentioned how _consumers_ liked glossy screens so they would move in that irection. They essentially nixed fw on the 15 incher (by reintroducing the Agere chipset). The only thing "pro" about the 15" MB is the expresscard slot, but since a) it's also found on other computers - even netbooks - one can hardly claim that that is enough to distinguish it as a "pro" computer, not to mention that the Expresscard slot found on that 15" MB doesn't work properly under OS X if you stick an FW-adaptor in it – not even if said adaptor has a TI chipset.

So, what's "pro" about it, except the monicker?

I never said USB 3.0 would be the heir to firewire. I just think it will be the next choice for Apple with its recent decisions.

You certainly more than implied it.

Firewire shipped computers seem to be on the decrease lately at Apple.

Wow! No frecking kidding! But that does not mean that firewire is dead, nor that USB 3 will make FW obsolete, nor that manufacturers of FW-gear will move on to USB 3.0 and nix FW.

I only claimed that digital deliver is going to be a goal for them.

Sure

The MBA is a perfect machine for my needs. When USB 3.0 arrives (As I think it will), I will upgrade.

We have already been through this.

As for the WIFI comment, I was a statement of fact.

No it wasn't. You implied that an ability to pay for WiFi was part of my argumentation and therefore it was a strawman argument.

The Air and most netbooks thrive in a wireless environment. Everyone.. If you cant afford Wifi, don't but an Air. Period.

Some people

Bandwidth in the USA is still an issue. I only get 20 MBPS D/L in AZ, but other countries, like Japan have awesome bandwidth.

That's my point: SOME places might have good coverage and bandwidth, but to deduct that because apple says "we're moving away from it" (as if that is something new) and there are good coverage in SOME places, that then there is no need for it NOW is utterly ignorant not to mention ridiculous.


You added to your post:

Although, I have edited a few HD iMovies without issues and transferred them to a SD card for playback on my PS3. The PS3 drive can not keep up with the files when trying to play them off a DVD. Imagine that. How did I get the files on the MBA in the first place you ask? I have an AVCHD camcorder that uses SD cards.

After taking apart a MBA, I can tell you that there is no room for any type of CD/DVD drive. There was clearly no intention of installing one. In addition, the new MBP's have tapered sides.

LOL, I know there was absolutely NO intention to do that. Had there been, though, they would not have tapered the edges, RESULTING in the concessions and workarounds: Mini-ports, few ports, hinged ports, no drive, huge bezels, core shutdowns and so on. The reality is that the MBA is a prime example of looks before function.

 

[Maven1975]

LOL, are you saying you're a head-fi'er?

Seriosly, a proper rip to lossless or uncompressed will certainly not affect the original (a bought cd is no "Master"), nor will it affect any encoding. It is a bit-for-bit copy.



You continue with your strawman argumentation. I never said I would travel with CD's – there's a reason I rip my stuff. A laptop (or netbook) is for much else besides travelling. Did I mention "in the field"? I think so.




What "heavy lifting"?


Yes, and other banalities. Of course we are, but that is not to say that optical media is already in the past. We may be "moving away" from it, but we're hardly anywhere near it.

Let's have this conversation again when Apple ships their computers with the OS on flash or similar.




Is it now? I don't see anything but the monicker being "pro" about it. In fact, Jobs mentioned how _consumers_ liked glossy screens so they would move in that irection. They essentially nixed fw on the 15 incher (by reintroducing the Agere chipset). The only thing "pro" about the 15" MB is the expresscard slot, but since a) it's also found on other computers - even netbooks - one can hardly claim that that is enough to distinguish it as a "pro" computer, not to mention that the Expresscard slot found on that 15" MB doesn't work properly under OS X if you stick an FW-adaptor in it – not even if said adaptor has a TI chipset.

So, what's "pro" about it, except the monicker?




You certainly more than implied it.



Wow! No frecking kidding! But that does not mean that firewire is dead, nor that USB 3 will make FW obsolete, nor that manufacturers of FW-gear will move on to USB 3.0 and nix FW.


Sure



We have already been through this.


No it wasn't. You implied that an ability to pay for WiFi was part of my argumentation and therefore it was a strawman argument.



Some people



That's my point: SOME places might have good coverage and bandwidth, but to deduct that because apple says "we're moving away from it" (as if that is something new) and there are good coverage in SOME places, that then there is no need for it NOW is utterly ignorant not to mention ridiculous.


You added to your post:



LOL, I know there was absolutely NO intention to do that. Had there been, though, they would not have tapered the edges, RESULTING in the concessions and workarounds: Mini-ports, few ports, hinged ports, no drive, huge bezels, core shutdowns and so on. The reality is that the MBA is a prime example of looks before function.

I know the sonic differences between a Sony receiver and a set of Lexicon separates. So, I guess that makes me an Audiophile. In your opinion, all components are created equal? Interesting.

I edited my post to reflect "Your type of heavy lifting" Needing something from a computer that is not present on a MBA.

I have not had core shutdowns on my Rev. B. I clearly stated that Rev. A was half baked. The reality is, they have fixed these issues with the Air Rev. B.

"You continue with your strawman argumentation. I never said I would travel with CD's – there's a reason I rip my stuff. A laptop (or netbook) is for much else besides travelling. Did I mention "in the field"? I think so."

So you are saying you rip your media so you don't have to do it in the field? Why would this be any different from what we do with our Air's? Furthermore, from what Apple suggested to do when omitting the CD/DVD drive from one of its laptops?

It looks like you need to fire off an email to sjobs@apple.com Hopefully you can talk some sense into him.

 

[Tosser]

I know the sonic differences between a Sony receiver and a set of Lexicon separates. So, I guess that makes me an Audiophile. In your opinion, all components are created equal? Interesting.

No. What is interesting is your need to continue to misrepresent what I say. I am pointing out to you that a bit-for-bit copy will sound the same as the original. That is certainly not saying all equipment are created equally. Do you even know what a DAC is? It doesn't sound like you do.

I edited my post to reflect "Your type of heavy lifting" Needing something from a computer that is not present on a MBA.

I don't consider any of my examples "heavy lifting".

I have not had core shutdowns on my Rev. B. I clearly stated that Rev. A was half baked. The reality is, they have fixed these issues with the Air Rev. B.

That does not in any way make your argument stronger, nor does it make mine weaker.

"You continue with your strawman argumentation. I never said I would travel with CD's – there's a reason I rip my stuff. A laptop (or netbook) is for much else besides travelling. Did I mention "in the field"? I think so."

So you are saying you rip your media so you don't have to do it in the field?

No, again, I do that for traveling. I also have work to do, though, so SOME things are ripped and burned in the field. I don't travel with music cd's though. There is no point in that.

Why would this be any different from what we do with our Air's?

Why? Because out in the field (i.e. WORKING) you don't have your NAS and Wireless N-network at all times.

It looks like you need to fire off an email to sjobs@apple.com Hopefully you can talk some sense into him.

Hmm. Talk about missing the point entirely. He's not the one running around here defending anything. You are. You are the one who feels a need to make extraordinary use of strawman argumentation in order to sound persuasive, and you're the one that thinks that the future is already present.

 

[MVApple]

I bought my gf an HP Mini 1000 this Christmas and she LOVES it. Everyday since she got it she tells me how much she loves her mini. She is not a hardcore computer user. When I was at Best Buy looking at the computer a bunch of people were eyeing it and talking about how its a good value for a neat little computer.

You have to view this through the eyes of the average consumer who probably doesn't use their computer for much more than Microsoft Office and web browsing.

My gf tells me she's going to take it to class to type her notes on. At the size and weight its just right for taking notes on and carrying it around. I would have loved to have gotten her, her first Mac but it wasn't an option. I think a lot of people that have a desktop but want a secondary computer for light use like office and web browsing work for short periods of time is going to eat up these netbooks.

Don't take my word for it, look at the crazy sales they are experiencing. Apple WILL release a netbook. It started out as a niche market but it has exploded and I doubt Apple will sit it out twiddling their thumbs.

 

[Maven1975]

No. What is interesting is your need to continue to misrepresent what I say. I am pointing out to you that a bit-for-bit copy will sound the same as the original. That is certainly not saying all equipment are created equally. Do you even know what a DAC is? It doesn't sound like you do.


I don't consider any of my examples "heavy lifting".


That does not in any way make your argument stronger, nor does it make mine weaker.





No, again, I do that for traveling. I also have work to do, though, so SOME things are ripped and burned in the field. I don't travel with music cd's though. There is no point in that.




Why? Because out in the field (i.e. WORKING) you don't have your NAS and Wireless N-network at all times.




Hmm. Talk about missing the point entirely. He's not the one running around here defending anything. You are. You are the one who feels a need to make extraordinary use of strawman argumentation in order to sound persuasive, and you're the one that thinks that the future is already present.

"I don't consider any of my examples "heavy lifting". "

How do you rip a Disc on a computer that does not have an optical drive? If you need that function, one would buy a computer with a optical drive. I would call trying to rip a CD/DVD on a Air heavy lifting without the addition of an external drive.

"That does not in any way make your argument stronger, nor does it make mine weaker."

Maybe not, but it does point out your Strawman statements about core shutdown. In addition, the bezel on the MBA is no larger than the MB or MBA. It also helps add more space on the keyboard for comfort IMHO.

"No. What is interesting is your need to continue to misrepresent what I say. I am pointing out to you that a bit-for-bit copy will sound the same as the original. That is certainly not saying all equipment are created equally. Do you even know what a DAC is? It doesn't sound like you do. "

You make a bunch of assumptions. Please read these direct quotes.

"LOL, are you saying you're a head-fi'er?

"Besides, "audiophile" smacks of snake-oil. It's a term worn proudly only by people who believe their ability to hear goes well into the microwave spectrum – you know head-fi'ers. "

In my opinion, it seem you are quick to pass judgement on ones expertise.

"Hmm. Talk about missing the point entirely. He's not the one running around here defending anything. You are. You are the one who feels a need to make extraordinary use of strawman argumentation in order to sound persuasive, and you're the one that thinks that the future is already present"

I would love the ability to change the battery, and add more ram to the Air. I would also like it to have OLED, FW 400, FW 800, Blu-Ray, 20 USB slots and hell.. even a DVD/CD drive all at the same weight.

Pop back to reality, not gonna happen.

If I had to guess, I would say you are looking for an argument. I am just pointing out that technology is advancing. Holding on the the past might not be the best option. It seem you are complaining about Apple's want/desire to push things into a different direction. Complaining here will get you little traction. Perhaps trying the Apple support forums.

 

[Tosser]

"I don't consider any of my examples "heavy lifting". "

How do you rip a Disc on a computer that does not have an optical drive? If you need that function, one would buy a computer with a optical drive. I would call trying to rip a CD/DVD on a Air heavy lifting without the addition of an external drive.

Yes, of course one would do that. But your argument is that there is no need for optical in general.

"That does not in any way make your argument stronger, nor does it make mine weaker."

Maybe not, but it does point out your Strawman statements about core shutdown.

Before you parrot what I say, perhaps you should look up "strawman argument".
The fact is, that Rev A. continously had core shutdowns from merely looking at things on youtube or video chatting.

In addition, the bezel on the MBA is no larger than the MB or MBA. It also helps add more space on the keyboard for comfort IMHO.

You never used the keyboard on a 12" powerbook, did you? The extra width around the keyboard doesn't matter at all. I am well aware that the bezels on the MB and MBP are large as well, but the fact is, had they not tapered the sides on the MBA they could have made them thinner (narrower). And for some reason – because of the apparent "thinness", perhaps? The bezels on the MBA looks much wider than on the MB and of course the MBP (because of the larger screen, mostly).

"No. What is interesting is your need to continue to misrepresent what I say. I am pointing out to you that a bit-for-bit copy will sound the same as the original. That is certainly not saying all equipment are created equally. Do you even know what a DAC is? It doesn't sound like you do. "

You make a bunch of assumptions. Please read these direct quotes.

Funny. You assumed in your strawman that I was saying all equipment was created equally because I said a proper rip was bit-for-bit the same as the original. You didn't even know the difference between a master and simply an "original", and the assumption you made certainly made it most likely that you didn't know what a DAC was – otherwise it would be very hard to jump to the conclusion that I thought of all equipment as being created equally. What is it then? You simply don't know anything about digital audio?

"LOL, are you saying you're a head-fi'er?

Indeed. You seemed well offended by what I said about the term "audiophile".

"Besides, "audiophile" smacks of snake-oil. It's a term worn proudly only by people who believe their ability to hear goes well into the microwave spectrum – you know head-fi'ers. "

So? I work in the audio business. I have an analytical mind and an engineer-like approach. Of course I have an opinion about snake-oil vendors and since I have frequented such sites (of which head-fi is just a very good example), I am well aware of how many people on those sites do nothing but reiterate snake-oil sales pitches.

In my opinion, it seem you are quick to pass judgement on ones expertise.

This is not some opinion I just thought of. It has been formed by experience, so there is nothing "quick" about this, nor is it an assumption. It's based purely on what people on that site act like and what they say, held against real knowledge and science.

"Hmm. Talk about missing the point entirely. He's not the one running around here defending anything. You are. You are the one who feels a need to make extraordinary use of strawman argumentation in order to sound persuasive, and you're the one that thinks that the future is already present"

I would love the ability to change the battery, and add more ram to the Air. I would also like it to have OLED, FW 400, FW 800, Blu-Ray, 20 USB slots and hell.. even a DVD/CD drive all at the same weight.

Pop back to reality, not gonna happen.

Ah, yes, it's unrealistic to expect and buy computers where you can aactually swap the battery or add more ram, find something with FW or dvd-drive. It's so far out in the future that we might as well ask for those twenty (!!!) USB ports you compare such demands to.

Wake up, will you?

If I had to guess, I would say you are looking for an argument.

Really? That's funny I see you all the time having to use strawman argumentation and red herrings (there's another one for you to look up) – for an outsider that would imply it is you who are looking for an argument, and by extension are projecting.

I am just pointing out that technology is advancing.

No you're not. Read your posts again.

Holding on the the past might not be the best option.

This really is hilarious. You have JUST said that you''re merely pointing out that technology is advancing. Yet in the next sentence having a need for firewire and/or optical drives are already "in the past"? Is it impossible or you to at least be consistent?

It seem you are complaining about Apple's want/desire to push things into a different direction.

No – I don't like it, but I am merely countering your argument that FW, optical drives et al are in the past, and that everyone can make do with wireless N, no optical drive and so on, everywhere they go, no matter what they do.

 

[Maven1975]

Yes, of course one would do that. But your argument is that there is no need for optical in general.



Before you parrot what I say, perhaps you should look up "strawman argument".
The fact is, that Rev A. continously had core shutdowns from merely looking at things on youtube or video chatting.

You never used the keyboard on a 12" powerbook, did you? The extra width around the keyboard doesn't matter at all. I am well aware that the bezels on the MB and MBP are large as well, but the fact is, had they not tapered the sides on the MBA they could have made them thinner (narrower). And for some reason – because of the apparent "thinness", perhaps? The bezels on the MBA looks much wider than on the MB and of course the MBP (because of the larger screen, mostly).

"No. What is interesting is your need to continue to misrepresent what I say. I am pointing out to you that a bit-for-bit copy will sound the same as the original. That is certainly not saying all equipment are created equally. Do you even know what a DAC is? It doesn't sound like you do. "


Funny. You assumed in your strawman that I was saying all equipment was created equally because I said a proper rip was bit-for-bit the same as the original. You didn't even know the difference between a master and simply an "original", and the assumption you made certainly made it most likely that you didn't know what a DAC was – otherwise it would be very hard to jump to the conclusion that I thought of all equipment as being created equally. What is it then? You simply don't know anything about digital audio?




Indeed. You seemed well offended by what I said about the term "audiophile".





So? I work in the audio business. I have an analytical mind and an engineer-like approach. Of course I have an opinion about snake-oil vendors and since I have frequented such sites (of which head-fi is just a very good example), I am well aware of how many people on those sites do nothing but reiterate snake-oil sales pitches.



This is not some opinion I just thought of. It has been formed by experience, so there is nothing "quick" about this, nor is it an assumption. It's based purely on what people on that site act like and what they say, held against real knowledge and science.



Ah, yes, it's unrealistic to expect and buy computers where you can aactually swap the battery or add more ram, find something with FW or dvd-drive. It's so far out in the future that we might as well ask for those twenty (!!!) USB ports you compare such demands to.

Wake up, will you?




Really? That's funny I see you all the time having to use strawman argumentation and red herrings (there's another one for you to look up) – for an outsider that would imply it is you who are looking for an argument, and by extension are projecting.






No you're not. Read your posts again.



This really is hilarious. You have JUST said that you''re merely pointing out that technology is advancing. Yet in the next sentence having a need for firewire and/or optical drives are already "in the past"? Is it impossible or you to at least be consistent?


No – I don't like it, but I am merely countering your argument that FW, optical drives et al are in the past, and that everyone can make do with wireless N, no optical drive and so on, everywhere they go, no matter what they do.


Again with the idiocy.

Your arguments are weak and rely on twisting words.

"Before you parrot what I say, perhaps you should look up "strawman argument".
The fact is, that Rev A. continously had core shutdowns from merely looking at things on youtube or video chatting. "

I was not the one that was not clear in their post. Perhaps stating Rev. A MBA's in the future would help.

This is the last time I will post this.

Don't buy a computer if it does not have what you need/desire on a day to day basis.

 

[petermcphee]

I would buy five of them.

 

[Tosser]

Your arguments are weak and rely on twisting words.

That's a claim for sure. But as usual, you don't even come close to backing it up with any sort of argument. What's ironic is that anyone can see what you say by simply going back in this thread.
I guess, though, that it's easier for you to claim that I rely on twisting words when you're caught in two adjacent sentences saying the exact opposite of each other.
"With no arguments, let's go claim something absurd," seems to be the mantra of the day.

"Before you parrot what I say, perhaps you should look up "strawman argument".
The fact is, that Rev A. continously had core shutdowns from merely looking at things on youtube or video chatting. "

I was not the one that was not clear in their post. Perhaps stating Rev. A MBA's in the future would help.

Remember when I talked about "projection"? When we talked about "new designs" and how the MBA was designed and what problems was associated with that computer I mentioned several problems that came with this new design. But you - you decide to focus on just a single of the problems (they they NOW fixed) and then imply a) I was wrong, and b) that I should be more clear. You seriously should try thinking for yourself and stop defending things blindly. If you did you wouldn't need to continue making red herrings, continue to ignore facts and valid arguments, and you'd stop trying to pretend I said something I didn't.

This is the last time I will post this.

Good riddance.

Don't buy a computer if it does not have what you need/desire on a day to day basis.

I'm sorry, but in a discussion forum, in a thread asking people if they'd buy "xxx", the whole point is discussing what one wants and/or needs. If we said nothing, there wouldn't be much a discussion, would there?
As usual, when you and your peers weak pseudo arguments doesn't cut it, you come up with the ingenious "If you don't like it, don't buy it", and "if you don't like it, there are other choices out there". That never gets old.

Stop with your rant.

I don't rant. I argue my case. It's just unfortunate you have no idea how to do that.

Post of the day.

It seems Steve and his billions could learn a thing or two from someone like Tosser who spends most of his waking hours on a chat forum.

I know it's hard to differentiate between subtleties, but there's a mountain of difference between "being active when around" and "being around constantly".
As usual, you and your peers are basing each and every premise and opinion on that pseudo sarcastic comment: Whatever Jobs does is excellent – no matter what. That, my friends, is one scary lemming attitude, showing exactly how little some people are able to think for themselves.

 

[Maven1975]

Then:

"LOL, I know there was absolutely NO intention to do that. Had there been, though, they would not have tapered the edges, RESULTING in the concessions and workarounds: Mini-ports, few ports, hinged ports, no drive, huge bezels, core shutdowns and so on. The reality is that the MBA is a prime example of looks before function."

Now:

"Remember when I talked about "projection"? When we talked about "new designs" and how the MBA was designed and what problems was associated with that computer I mentioned several problems that came with this new design. But you - you decide to focus on just a single of the problems (they they NOW fixed) and then imply a) I was wrong, and b) that I should be more clear. You seriously should try thinking for yourself and stop defending things blindly. If you did you wouldn't need to continue making red herrings, continue to ignore facts and valid arguments, and you'd stop trying to pretend I said something I didn't."

The reality is you are posting inside of the MBA thread complaining about function. News Flash--- We know what we are buying when we walk out of the door.

What more do you expect from the Air? Quad core? Firewire? Retinal Scanner? Price Drop?

"You never used the keyboard on a 12" powerbook, did you?"

Here you go with assumptions again.

 

[yoppie]

No. I get along just fine with my iPhone and MacBook.

I'm hoping to upgrade to a MacBook Pro and a Mac mini (for entertainment use with my TV and an external computer movie) in 2009.

 

[Tosser]

Then:

"LOL, I know there was absolutely NO intention to do that. Had there been, though, they would not have tapered the edges, RESULTING in the concessions and workarounds: Mini-ports, few ports, hinged ports, no drive, huge bezels, core shutdowns and so on. The reality is that the MBA is a prime example of looks before function."

Now:

"Remember when I talked about "projection"? When we talked about "new designs" and how the MBA was designed and what problems was associated with that computer I mentioned several problems that came with this new design. But you - you decide to focus on just a single of the problems (they they NOW fixed) and then imply a) I was wrong, and b) that I should be more clear. You seriously should try thinking for yourself and stop defending things blindly. If you did you wouldn't need to continue making red herrings, continue to ignore facts and valid arguments, and you'd stop trying to pretend I said something I didn't."

The reality is you are posting inside of the MBA thread complaining about function. News Flash--- We know what we are buying when we walk out of the door.

The reality is that I'm posting in a thread about netbooks, and some idjit figured that the MBA must be a netbook, another idjit that it was far superiour to a netbook. Then some other idjit decided that noone should say anything bad about the MBA because it was superior to anything (regardless of needs) and the same idjit decided to try and prove that no concessions were made as a result of the design which dictated the functioniality.

That's the short of the long of it.

What more do you expect from the Air? Quad core? Firewire? Retinal Scanner? Price Drop?

I expect nothing of the MBA. However, I do expect people to recognise the huge concessions with regards to functionality all so it could be made to "look prettty".

"You never used the keyboard on a 12" powerbook, did you?"

Here you go with assumptions again.

Really? If you had, you wouldn't have come up with an argument where you implied that it was uncomfortable using a laptop without extra space besides the keyboard and screen. It's not a matter of assumptions. It's a matter of taking your arguments for what they are: Pure nonsense based on blind fanboyism.

 

[Maven1975]

"Really? If you had, you wouldn't have come up with an argument where you implied that it was uncomfortable using a laptop without extra space besides the keyboard and screen. It's not a matter of assumptions. It's a matter of taking your arguments for what they are: Pure nonsense based on blind fanboyism."

I find the Air more comfortable in every way. This is a matter of opinion.

"I expect nothing of the MBA. However, I do expect people to recognise the huge concessions with regards to functionality all so it could be made to "look prettty".

I find that it rids me of unwanted devices/weight. I wouldn't mind an extra USB, but you are right.. it does look good.

 

[Mykbibby]

Maybe or a iPhone nano as ATT has 3G iphones for 99 bucks

I hate that avatar... it gets me every time!

And no, I think Netbooks dont appeal to this crowd as much as they would to others.

 

[QCassidy352]

I'll say it again - I don't see the point of netbooks. The difference between a 3 lb. netbook and a fully featured 4.5 lb. macbook is minimal. The difference between a pocket-sized iphone/ipod touch/blackberry and a 3 lb. netbook is enormous.

For me, it's about whether I have to carry a bag or whether it's something I can just put in my pocket. Once we reach the "carry a bag" point, I'll just take a real computer, not a 9" toy.

 

[zap2]

Yes

 

[Maven1975]

I'll say it again - I don't see the point of netbooks. The difference between a 3 lb. netbook and a fully featured 4.5 lb. macbook is minimal. The difference between a pocket-sized iphone/ipod touch/blackberry and a 3 lb. netbook is enormous.

For me, it's about whether I have to carry a bag or whether it's something I can just put in my pocket. Once we reach the "carry a bag" point, I'll just take a real computer, not a 9" toy.

I agree. Actualy, if Apple didint have that lame screen on the MB, I might actualy consider it next time around.

Well put.

 

[zap2]

I'll say it again - I don't see the point of netbooks. The difference between a 3 lb. netbook and a fully featured 4.5 lb. macbook is minimal. The difference between a pocket-sized iphone/ipod touch/blackberry and a 3 lb. netbook is enormous.

For me, it's about whether I have to carry a bag or whether it's something I can just put in my pocket. Once we reach the "carry a bag" point, I'll just take a real computer, not a 9" toy.

I agree. Actualy, if Apple didint have that lame screen on the MB, I might actualy consider it next time around.

Well put.

Thats fine......for you.

But there IS a difference. I hold my 7'' EEE PC(which is the same size physically as the 8.9'' model) and compare to my 12'' iBook, there is quite the difference. And in price, and you're going to see units moving!

And enough with this toy crap....I can do all my work on a netbook, because I tend to only use FireFox/OpenOffice when I'm on the go. Why would I pay 1299(or 999, if I wanted an older Mac) to do that? Plus deal with the extra hassle, and lower battery life?

 

[ob81]

The Macbook Air is Apple's version of a netbook. There are netbooks with better specs than the Macbook Air.

Macbook Air users are in the market for netbooks. They so called need portability and not that many features, which a netbook offers.

Apple decided on the "Apple" version of a netbook to charge customers more, and make more money.

People that fell for the Macbook Air gimmick would have shown the same support if it had been a $400-500 netbook Apple released, instead of the Macbook air.

I have been writing on internet forums since about 1998. I don't expect anyone to openly agree with anything that I just said, but one of those lines apply to most.