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If M$ is building a new OS from scratch for 2005 how will Apple compete?

Originally posted by nightowl
As a former PC user (still stuck with one at work :( ), I switched almost a year ago to Apple for one simple reason - stability in the OS and sick and tired of M$.

Until just a few years ago, I was one of those Apple bashers, trash talking the Mac, it's a toy, etc. OSX got me interested in the Mac, and ultimately is why I switched at home.

It's amazing at how easy, powerful, and gorgeous my Mac is. I've been a PC user for nearly 20 years, actually started on an Apple ][ in elementary school. I WAS the biggest PC cheeleader there was.

Heck, I've even convinced my best friend to switch, when he scrapes some money together to buy all new hardware.

To tie it all into this thread, I think that as M$ ticks more and more of us seasoned, experienced, knowledgable users off, we will be switching more and more. I didn't like some of the privacy "features" in XP, and I have yet to install it on any of my PCs.

Ahh, so glad there's no more "Blue Screen of Death" rearing its ugly head!
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Ditto For me!
 
Blackcomb does have some truly innovative features. IIRC the whole imaging model should be offloaded to the graphics card (Quartz SHOULD be doing the same thing by that time), it will have a database like filesystem for super fast BeOS-like searches, and probably a bunch of other things. On the other hand, it'll have a MS user interface (they OUGHT to be able to do it right, but so far they have a string of miserable failures), and it will have Palladium <gives the Palladium team the finger>.
 
Originally posted by Catfish_Man
Blackcomb does have some truly innovative features. IIRC the whole imaging model should be offloaded to the graphics card (Quartz SHOULD be doing the same thing by that time), it will have a database like filesystem for super fast BeOS-like searches, and probably a bunch of other things. On the other hand, it'll have a MS user interface (they OUGHT to be able to do it right, but so far they have a string of miserable failures), and it will have Palladium <gives the Palladium team the finger>.
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See Quatz Extreme... Quartz is doing that NOW
 
Windows users have 3 options on Microsofts latest 'anti-piracy' joke
1) M$ releases it, you get some software that takes anti-file sharing away
2) M$ release it: You never get another windows update. From there you can use you old hardware or get another solution to the problem (mac)
3) Use M$ anti piracy shiz and live with it, ha.
 
Originally posted by Catfish_Man
it will have a database like filesystem for super fast BeOS-like searches, and probably a bunch of other things.
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this is apples only threat. really.

i have read it may be based on MySQL Server. BUT, if apple has everyone using only OS X and with very little classic it can classicize HFS and do the same.

They could even use BFS if they realy wanted. i am sure that Be wouldnt mind selling it.

Apple is going to stay alive for one reason above all others: us. we will buy our next somputer from apple, and our next and our next etc etc. apple ahs positioned itself so it only needs us to survive. The more we get the better it gets but we can survive.

besides the world still needs successful powerpoint presentations where the laptop plugs into the projector and just works.

long live apple. apple for life.
 
Originally posted by P-Worm
I worked for an engineering company last year that had all of their Windows machines running 2000 because the company does not trust XP. There are lots of people that work this way.
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Indeed there is.
Apple might have done the single best thing they have ever done in developing OSX... and we all know the various reasons.

Microsoft, since it's the subject here, can do the same. Seems to me that 30BLN in cash can buy a lot of R+D, and if they truly hire some visionaries and get off that DLL-Death-Dance, they can change the world. But they won't, and folks will still buy it. Windows fixation by the general public continues to be the biggest mystery of my tecnological life.
 
Microsoft is just a big company that copied off of other people to get started. They bought full use rights to DOS, they copied Apple's GUI, and Windows XP is just a sorry attempt to copy Apple's good looks and all-around greatness. I know of a few people who think Mac is to 'Simple' and 'You can't do anything on it', but when all of that copy-protection junk happens in 2005, they'll really be screwed. Windows IS just really one big web browser (I forgot who said that). Anyone who has ever worked on Windows, if IE crashes, then your desktop and open windows do too. The reason M$ has never been as good as Mac is because it runs off of DOS. DOS handles all of the core operations. M$ has based all of their OSes off of something they didn't even make! So, if Microsoft makes a new OS from scratch, then they'll have to put their minds to work.... because I can guarantee you they won't use another platform to base their OS on. I mean, M$ is this so-called superior company, they should be able to make a superior operating systems. I don't know if people will adjust to the copyright thing, though. What is their reasoning?
 
Originally posted by Gelfin
Apple will compete very well with whatever new monstrosity Microsoft comes up with, because the reason MS is developing a new OS to start with is so that they can embed Digital Rights Management into the core of the OS. There's almost no way this can be anything but a disaster for them. The problems it will introduce will befuddle novices and infuriate advanced users. Microsoft will not be able to resist using it to engage in anticompetitive business practices (no other word processor will be able to import a Microsoft Word document, for instance). And thanks to the lunacy of the DMCA in the U.S., it will inevitably become a violation of federal law for you to simply get your computer to do what you want it to do in certain cases.

And Apple will be able to step up to the plate, yet again, and offer a computer that Just Works. And that's how they'll compete.
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Speaking strictly about popularity; Apple can not compete.

Techinical merit? Yes, of course.

As to the poster implying that since windows is not UNIX/BSD based it is inherently unstable, so was MacOS until version ten... :cool:

The NT kernel is a good one... it is just a shame that M$ feels they must honor combatibility back to crappy 16bit apps.

My question about Longhorn is... will it be a true 64bit OS? Or is it going to be some kludged together 32bit workup?
 
the battlelines have been drawn for the next phase of the compu-war...

digital hub vs. corporate spy

i pity the people who buy a machine/OS stacked with spyware, ready to lock you out if you play that justin timberlake cd too many times. i can see the switch ads now:

"i was working on my graduate thesis, and i was listening to some music, when all of the sudden this little gremlin came on my screen, held a gun to my paper and demanded a sacrifice of $12 ($49 Canadian) unless i could provide notarized proof of purchase...but there are no gremlins on my mac."

i don't see a mass windows exodus come '05-'06, but this will help apple's market share.
 
Apple has always competed! They always will. As long as Motorola or IBM keep delivering, then we are ok.
 
The reason Apple always wins in the UI department is simple.

Microsoft's engineers are ugly, straight men.
Apple's engineers are hot, gay men.

I mean seriously, have you SEEN that XP interface lately? I wouldn't be surprised if it said V-Tech or Fisher Price on it.
 
Originally posted by Eple
Longhorn will be the competiter for OSX jaguar :rolleyes:
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correct!!

but if we are still on jaguar in 05-06 ..... may god have mercy on us all. in other word: ms is making an os to compete with todays mac. but it will only be available tomorow. by then they will be once again, behind.

oh well. bad luck ms. hooray for apple, they dont need luck :D
 
Originally posted by springscansing
The reason Apple always wins in the UI department is simple.

Microsoft's engineers are ugly, straight men.
Apple's engineers are hot, gay men.
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*ahem* ... *backs away slowly* ...



*four miles later*...anyway, I heard MS is going to make an OS where they replace the start button with a big happy face and call it Windows XL. People are already pre-ordering it like crazy.

As long as MS is in the lead, they aren't going to rewrite their top dog OS to exclude legacy support. They are just going to continue their MS Office philosophy, release a new version often with little changes, a new annoying mascot, and more exploits, then spend the next 4 years fixing them. As long as people can play [insert PC only software title/game], it will sell through the roof.
 
Originally posted by Das
I heard MS is going to make an OS where they replace the start button with a big happy face and call it Windows XL. People are already pre-ordering it like crazy.
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to get off on a tangent here, has anyone taken a good look at the start menu (or any other graphical part of xp)? it's the ***** ugliest thing i've ever seen. i realize that we all know that xp is hideous, but every time i use it in my computer lab, it's like needles in my eyes. i don't know if ms is still using the same 12x10 pixel boot screen that they blow up to make it look like crap, but the font rendering in the interface is horrendous and the start menu (which is supposed to be the gateway to windows) is the ugliest, most pixelated monstrosity i've ever seen. do these people do graphic design in the dark?
 
The Start menu is one thing that drove me to the Mac. The horrible walking menus with hundreds of items! They say user studies led them to that?! It's got to be the most horrible user interface in the world! It's completely nutty - Start -> Programs (why "Programs"?) -> a list of over 100, text-only menu items, hundreds more inside text-only folders (the icons are so small they're just smudges). Ghastly.

For Microsoft to talk about what they will have in 2005 is pure FUD. (Where's Cairo? Wasn't it supposed to have all this hot-zingety stuff?) Besides, as we all know, it will be late. Really late, and with far fewer features than claimed. And loaded with bugs.
 
Originally posted by springscansing
The reason Apple always wins in the UI department is simple.

Microsoft's engineers are ugly, straight men.
Apple's engineers are hot, gay men.

I mean seriously, have you SEEN that XP interface lately? I wouldn't be surprised if it said V-Tech or Fisher Price on it.
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No, the ugly straight men are the ones who work on GNOME. (And the ugly gay men work on KDE.) I believe the artwork in XP was done by a separate design firm... hot, gay women maybe? Ahhhhhh the comedic joy of sexual orientation.
 
Here is the first look at Longhorn

PCWorld have a sneak preview of Longhorn -
Sneak Peak : Windows XP's Sucessor


"Most interesting is a completely new desktop element called Sidebar that lets you place commonly used items, including the taskbar, recently launched applications, and a clock, into a vertical, transparent window on either the right or left side of the screen."

"A new theme, called Plex, offers a more rounded window style, while a revamped, as-yet-nonfunctional Display Settings dialog box looks like something right out of Apple's OS X Aqua interface. "

This is all M$ could come up with 40bln in the bank. Where is the innovation? Why just copy from Mac os X or Linux. Isn't the sidebar an extended dock?
 
MS has a vast array of great talent, you cannot say that the guys hacking the code are dumb... no way.

I have seen longhorn (admittedly, there is a long way to go before release)... there is something _stuck_ in MS.. they simply seem unable to make an impressive product.

They have spent years buying other peoples ideas and frantically integrating them into Windows and so they have the hodge pogde that is WinXP.

Windows 2k was the best thing MS ever did, and on my Sony laptop, that's what I run (sits next to my mac). It is clean of fuss, and works very well, (and it took cues from Unix in it's construction) but I still feel it to be awkward when compared to my mac (9 or X)

It flies in the face of all the talent that MS has on it's campus and around it, but I somehow just cannot see it producing any product that challenges Apple in Apple's market / cutomer base. Particularly with the semi-zealots as most of us are.

There is something fundamental that MS does not _get_ about computing, and that is the role of the user, and I don't see any sea change that will put that right.
 
Longhorn looks like XP with a modified OSX taskbar. Sorry, but some of you are right, and I've said it before: 30BN bucks can buy a LOT of stuff, but I guess it's not enough to buy a visionary. MS doesn't get it, never has... with a few pretty cool exceptions... that slip my mind.
I have XP Pro running on my OmniBook. I tried, I REALLY tried to not only like it but also gave it a chance to make me as or more productive than OSX. Grade: D. XP: That's one lousy OS. That reference to Fisher-Price was RIGHT ON.
 
Another Angle...

This is a bit off topic, but I thought I would share. As a highschool Junior, I seem to be both the only one who is interested in this great stuff, and a mac "zealot," as someone said. And as far as I can tell other kids that I know only care about computers if they have some huge amount of megahertz, and they can play their infantile shoot-em-up game. I don't get it! But I think that their perception, and therefore, misunderstanding about the whole equation that is needed to derive the clock speed is something apple should target. I know this isn't a huge market now (juuuuuuuuuuuuuuust wait!) and I know switch was supposed to target people who had misconceptions, but frankly, most people (Including me! Am I the only one?) that I know were REALLY infuriated by Switch. I think it was sorta hostile. Not that we don't have the upper hand, my friends, but why come off as pretentious, if that's how they see us. I think that apple may have to lower themselves down to the level of some younger buyers, and that might mean compromising some of their ideals. As long as PCs feature 800 bazzillion megahertz, and you can play Duke Quakem 400,000 (Everyone KNOWS you can't play games on macs!) the mac will not be seriously considered on what I think will someday be a huge proportion of the buyers. People are too comfortable with windows, and too paranoid to switch...and I think that as long as MS can maintain that sterotype, we will always be 10% or less of the market. But then again.......Palladium.........:) That might be the proverbial straw.

Sorry for the rant.
 
ew that is just hideous... i got my pc looking like aqua (of course also hideous, but its WAY better then the EVIL green start button) and there is an apple logo covering UP the start button so it is bearable.. (sp?) I do like the blue... but it looks like a rip off of disgusting windows media player skins in windows media player 9.. only the whole os looks like it.. :mad: that is just disgusting.
 
Originally posted by alex_ant

No, the ugly straight men are the ones who work on GNOME. (And the ugly gay men work on KDE.)
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the sad part is that as ugly as gnome and kde are (actually, the stuff arlo rose did with crux and nautilus are pretty nice, and i rather like a lot of gnome mods i've seen), it still looks much better than xp. microsoft pays graphic designers to make the interfaces for their products and they are 10x more hideous than what coders slap together in a few weeks.

apple should have implimented virtual desktops from day one. i don't need them, but there are a lot of people who find them helpful, and we wouldn't want ms puting a unix feature in their os first.

as far as the file system goes, apple hired dave hyatt a few months back and early reports said that he was hired to work on the help viewer. we all know how that turned out (we sure got one hell of a help viewer). apple recently hired the guy who designed the BFS, so you can be fairly sure he's not wasting time recessing the widgets for the brushed metal theme. the sql database was the only thing that flackbomb seemed to have going for it, but after that xp sql worm a few weeks ago that shut down my isp and bank, i think we're safe.

ms's theory with the whole xp thing seems to be "make the bloat bluer and rounder and no one will notice". i almost wish they had better ideas just to give apple some competition as far as innovation went.
 
Originally posted by Eple
Longhorn will be the competiter for OSX jaguar :rolleyes:
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yes but the thruth is that microsuck just said that they will have problems for 10 more years to dvelp a secure os, i just hope they die before they can do it
 
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