If my iPhone 6 couldn’t have 3D Touch then why does it now have 3D Touch?

[boltjames]

Haha… classic example of “I was wrong but can’t [graciously] admit it”.

And finding additional fault to further obfuscate the matter .

I wasn't wrong about anything.

The functionality of 3D Touch has been replicated by long press on the iPhone 6 under iOS 11.1. That is a fact.

 

[Feenician]

I wasn't wrong about anything.

The functionality of 3D Touch has been replicated by long press on the iPhone 6 under iOS 11.1. That is a fact.

No, it hasn’t, and it can’t usefully be done. Multi-depth would be much too awkward as it would require multiple intervals of long pressing. What has happened is that gestures that are long press are shortcutted on 3D Touch devices with a quick 3D Touch.

 

[C DM]

I wasn't wrong about anything.

The functionality of 3D Touch has been replicated by long press on the iPhone 6 under iOS 11.1. That is a fact.

Long press has been around for a long time, way before iOS 11. Simply some additional places have gained long press functionality. 3D Touch can be used for some long press features, but that's just one sub-set of 3D Touch, and the rest of it certainly hasn't been added or replicated on devices that don't support it.

 

[ZEEN0j]

I wasn't wrong about anything.

The functionality of 3D Touch has been replicated by long press on the iPhone 6 under iOS 11.1. That is a fact.

In control center only. Not anywhere else where the two inputs would collide.

 

[boltjames]

No, it hasn’t, and it can’t usefully be done. Multi-depth would be much too awkward as it would require multiple intervals of long pressing. What has happened is that gestures that are long press are shortcutted on 3D Touch devices with a quick 3D Touch.

I'm talking about eating ice cream and you're talking about the utensil necessary to scoop it out of the container. You may have a professional scoop and I may have a teaspoon, but in the end we're both eating mint chocolate chip. I understand the difference in technology. What I'm saying is that the end result is practically/potentially the same.
[doublepost=1510291883][/doublepost]

Long press has been around for a long time, way before iOS 11. Simply some additional places have gained long press functionality. 3D Touch can be used for some long press features, but that's just one sub-set of 3D Touch, and the rest of it certainly hasn't been added or replicated on devices that don't support it.

Definitely. I get that. But if Apple could enable Faux 3D Touch with a simple long press in Control Center, think what else they could have done.

 

[Feenician]

What I'm saying is that the end result is practically/potentially the same.

No, it’s not. Long press can add exactly one more action to a button or other UI element. 3D Touch adds multiple actions, depending on pressure. This isn’t complicated.

I have no idea what the ice cream nonsense was meant to prove.

 

[boltjames]

In control center only. Not anywhere else where the two inputs would collide.

Disagree.

Let's say that if instead of the giggly icon delete on a home screen long press it instead brought up a fly-out submenu with options just like 3D Touch, one of which was "remove app" and another "move app". Could have had the best of both worlds.

 

[Feenician]

Disagree.

Let's say that if instead of the giggly icon delete on a home screen long press it instead brought up a fly-out submenu with options just like 3D Touch, one of which was "remove app" and another "move app". Could have had the best of both worlds.

If people suddenly had to long press, then access a menu to delete or move an app there would be more s**t lost on these forums than a dog park for incontinent dogs.

 

[boltjames]

No, it’s not. Long press can add exactly one more action to a button or other UI element. 3D Touch adds multiple actions, depending on pressure. This isn’t complicated.

I have no idea what the ice cream nonsense was meant to prove.

Let's try this again:

3D Touch adds multiple actions based on pressure. All set there. No argument.

Faux 3D Touch Long Press can also add multiple actions, but not based on pressure. Based on flyout menu content. For example, if a Faux 3D Long Press on iMessage brought up the same submenu found on the real 3D Touch with the addition of "move app" and "delete app", you wind up in the same place. I can send a quick text without opening iMessage, I can move apps, I can delete apps.

Functionally, the same thing (get to underlying functions quickly without launching app). Technically different (one is pressure based, the other is menu based). Different ways to scoop it, but same ice cream.

 

[Feenician]

Let's try this again:

3D Touch adds multiple actions based on pressure. All set there. No argument.

Faux 3D Touch Long Press can also add multiple actions, but not based on pressure. Based on flyout menu content. For example, if a Faux 3D Long Press on iMessage brought up the same submenu found on the real 3D Touch with the addition of "move app" and "delete app", you wind up in the same place. I can send a quick text without opening iMessage, I can move apps, I can delete apps.

Functionally, the same thing (get to underlying functions quickly without launching app). Technically different (one is pressure based, the other is menu based). Different ways to scoop it, but same ice cream.

A long press and another tap is not, in any way, comparable to a 3D Touch. Besides that it’s utterly irrelevant to your thread which says the iPhone 6 was somehow given 3D Touch. It’s nonsense.

 

[C DM]

I'm talking about eating ice cream and you're talking about the utensil necessary to scoop it out of the container. You may have a professional scoop and I may have a teaspoon, but in the end we're both eating mint chocolate chip. I understand the difference in technology. What I'm saying is that the end result is practically/potentially the same.
[doublepost=1510291883][/doublepost]

Definitely. I get that. But if Apple could enable Faux 3D Touch with a simple long press in Control Center, think what else they could have done.

They could do it in a few other places, but mostly it exists in those places. But that's more or less it, the rest of 3D Touch can't really be replicated.

 

[boltjames]

A long press and another tap is not, in any way, comparable to a 3D Touch. Besides that it’s utterly irrelevant to your thread which says the iPhone 6 was somehow given 3D Touch. It’s nonsense.

Here we go again with semantics. Teaspoon vs. Ice Cream Scooper. That's not the argument. We all know that the 2 technologies are different. But the 2 end-user-experiences can be practically identical.

3D Touch merely allows for a faster experience through fly-out shortcuts. Instead of opening an app and drilling through 3-4 clicks to get to "send text" or "set alarm" or "call home", a long press and finger drag can do the same thing.

That's the point. We were told that only the super special pressure sensitive glass layers could give us this world of shortcut goodness. It turns out that it can also be executed by a long press. Not sure why we're even having this debate. It is just fact.
[doublepost=1510293038][/doublepost]

They could do it in a few other places, but mostly it exists in those places. But that's more or less it, the rest of 3D Touch can't really be replicated.

I am familiar with 3D Touch on an app icon releasing a menu of function shortcuts. To me, that's its primary objective.

Can you give me more examples of how this works from an OS standpoint? Not how it works in some app....I get that some game developer could build an experience where the range of firmness in a press can add variability....rather in the OS itself and why Long Press can't deliver the same end use experience (ie quick access shortcuts) as 3D Touch can?

 

[Feenician]

Here we go again with semantics. Teaspoon vs. Ice Cream Scooper. That's not the argument. We all know that the 2 technologies are different. But the 2 end-user-experiences can be practically identical.

3D Touch merely allows for a faster experience through fly-out shortcuts. Instead of opening an app and drilling through 3-4 clicks to get to "send text" or "set alarm" or "call home", a long press and finger drag can do the same thing.

That's the point. We were told that only the super special pressure sensitive glass layers could give us this world of shortcut goodness. It turns out that it can also be executed by a long press. Not sure why we're even having this debate. It is just fact.

No, it’s not fact. Not at all. No ice cream analogy can make it so. Tell me how a 3D Touch link in Safari should work where there’s peek and pop. Something something ice cream?

You’ve attempted to shift your op from “OMG muh iPhone 6 has 3D Touch now. Damn you crapple!!!” To “iOS should have context menus everywhere”. The first is garbage and the second isn’t compelling or useful.

I’m disengaging from this thread lest it turn into another, tinfoil hat, 60+ page of ever shifting goalpost textual diorrhea. It may still, but I won’t be wasting my time in it.

 

[C DM]

Here we go again with semantics. Teaspoon vs. Ice Cream Scooper. That's not the argument. We all know that the 2 technologies are different. But the 2 end-user-experiences can be practically identical.

3D Touch merely allows for a faster experience through fly-out shortcuts. Instead of opening an app and drilling through 3-4 clicks to get to "send text" or "set alarm" or "call home", a long press and finger drag can do the same thing.

That's the point. We were told that only the super special pressure sensitive glass layers could give us this world of shortcut goodness. It turns out that it can also be executed by a long press. Not sure why we're even having this debate. It is just fact.
[doublepost=1510293038][/doublepost]

I am familiar with 3D Touch on an app icon releasing a menu of function shortcuts. To me, that's its primary objective.

Can you give me more examples of how this works from an OS standpoint? Not how it works in some app....I get that some game developer could build an experience where the range of firmness in a press can add variability....rather in the OS itself and why Long Press can't deliver the same end use experience (ie quick access shortcuts) as 3D Touch can?

There's the multitasking shortcut, the keyboard controlled cursor, the peek and pop functionality. Now some of that to one degree or another could be replicated if enough of the known UI/UX was changed, but that would come at too high of an unnecessary cost of making those fundamental changes just for the sake of that. It would be analogous to saying you can do most things without a mouse on a computer, which you mostly can, but it doesn't result in a good experience.

 

[Deeds500]

If you see a pic on a website you like, you press down hard and options pop up, such as save, copy, cancel etc. This has been on the iphone for as long as I can remember but it's not 3D touch.

 

[orbital~debris]

I wasn't wrong about anything.

The functionality of 3D Touch has been replicated by long press on the iPhone 6 under iOS 11.1. That is a fact.

You really are being a moof-milker / grade-A doofus about this…

The information here (https://developer.apple.com/ios/3d-touch/) clearly demonstrates how the functionality of 3D Touch cannot be replicated on a device without the necessary hardware. Also see the WWDC 16 video linked there.

 

[elfxmilhouse]

Here we go again with semantics. Teaspoon vs. Ice Cream Scooper. That's not the argument. We all know that the 2 technologies are different. But the 2 end-user-experiences can be practically identical.

3D Touch merely allows for a faster experience through fly-out shortcuts. Instead of opening an app and drilling through 3-4 clicks to get to "send text" or "set alarm" or "call home", a long press and finger drag can do the same thing.

That's the point. We were told that only the super special pressure sensitive glass layers could give us this world of shortcut goodness. It turns out that it can also be executed by a long press. Not sure why we're even having this debate. It is just fact.
[doublepost=1510293038][/doublepost]

I am familiar with 3D Touch on an app icon releasing a menu of function shortcuts. To me, that's its primary objective.

Can you give me more examples of how this works from an OS standpoint? Not how it works in some app....I get that some game developer could build an experience where the range of firmness in a press can add variability....rather in the OS itself and why Long Press can't deliver the same end use experience (ie quick access shortcuts) as 3D Touch can?

I totally see your point about changing the SW to make it work without a 3D touch screen. I think people are getting more hung up on you calling/equating the long press to 3D Touch.

The thing is you can make the case that anything could have been done via software. I really didn't get the point of 3D touch when it was first announced and it took me a while to actually use it (had the 6s and the 7 but didnt really start using it until the 7). However, I do see certain contexts where it makes sense to have a distinction between the two when it's not possible to make it work with the long press.

As far as a iphone 6 "gaining 3D Touch", i think it's just a side effect of ios changing. For damn sure Apple knew they could have implemented what you are talking about back then, but 3D touch was a selling point. I think if you were making this argument when 3D touch first came out you probably would have a better response here.

 

[dannyyankou]

I wasn't wrong about anything.

The functionality of 3D Touch has been replicated by long press on the iPhone 6 under iOS 11.1. That is a fact.

Long press has been around since the beginning. 3D Touch just adds another layer of interaction.

It works in control center because there’s only one layer of interaction, unlike long pressing on icons on the homescreen. There’s no way to add this functionality on the iPhone 6, it can’t tell the difference in pressure.

 

[boltjames]

Long press has been around since the beginning. 3D Touch just adds another layer of interaction.

It works in control center because there’s only one layer of interaction, unlike long pressing on icons on the homescreen. There’s no way to add this functionality on the iPhone 6, it can’t tell the difference in pressure.

My argument having now played with 3D Touch on my iPhone X for a few days:

1. The "pressure" thing isn't necessary other than it differentiates 1) moving/deleting apps from 2) the flyout menu's. The pressure was added to help Apple avoid....

2. ....what they could do easily on the legacy iPhone's which is make a Long Press bring up the same flyout but with the addition of two extra options on said flyout- "move app" and "delete app".

If you see a pic on a website you like, you press down hard and options pop up, such as save, copy, cancel etc. This has been on the iphone for as long as I can remember but it's not 3D touch.

I understand it's not what Apple markets as "Wait Until You Experience 3D Touch!!! Wow!!!" but it's the same damned thing. You see something. You press it. It brings up shortcut options to allow you to work faster and more efficiently.

You really are being a moof-milker / grade-A doofus about this…

The information here (https://developer.apple.com/ios/3d-touch/) clearly demonstrates how the functionality of 3D Touch cannot be replicated on a device without the necessary hardware. Also see the WWDC 16 video linked there.

Read my earlier posts about Ice Cream. It's about enjoying mint chocolate chip. I'm not getting into another utensil argument. It's not about how you scoop it.

I totally see your point about changing the SW to make it work without a 3D touch screen. I think people are getting more hung up on you calling/equating the long press to 3D Touch.

As far as a iphone 6 "gaining 3D Touch", i think it's just a side effect of ios changing. For damn sure Apple knew they could have implemented what you are talking about back then, but 3D touch was a selling point. I think if you were making this argument when 3D touch first came out you probably would have a better response here.

Thank you. Perhaps what is causing disagreement is that I don't view "3D Touch" as a technology but rather a UI experience. Whether a hard long press (3D Touch enabled phones) or a standard long press (non-3D Touch phones) it's the same damned thing. Press for awhile, a menu flies out with options.

 

[dannyyankou]

My argument having now played with 3D Touch on my iPhone X for a few days:

1. The "pressure" thing isn't necessary other than it differentiates 1) moving/deleting apps from 2) the flyout menu's. The pressure was added to help Apple avoid....

2. ....what they could do easily on the legacy iPhone's which is make a Long Press bring up the same flyout but with the addition of two extra options on said flyout- "move app" and "delete app".

What if you want to copy a link without loading the page and using extra data? Or what about your keyboard telling the difference between bringing up special characters and using it as a trackpad? Or what about safari telling the difference between trying to move a tab around and doing a “peek/pop” on a tab.

There’s lot’s of other uses to 3D Touch besides the homescreen, come on

 

[boltjames]

What if you want to copy a link without loading the page and using extra data? Or what about your keyboard telling the difference between bringing up special characters and using it as a trackpad? Or what about safari telling the difference between trying to move a tab around and doing a “peek/pop” on a tab.

There’s lot’s of other uses to 3D Touch besides the homescreen, come on

I asked yesterday for people to provide examples of 3D Touch specific functions that demonstrate the need for different degrees of pressure applied to the screen and why it couldn't be replicated on a standard screen.

These are the first I'm seeing, so I will check them out.

 

[C DM]

I asked yesterday for people to provide examples of 3D Touch specific functions that demonstrate the need for different degrees of pressure applied to the screen and why it couldn't be replicated on a standard screen.

These are the first I'm seeing, so I will check them out.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ow-have-3d-touch.2085054/page-4#post-25439378

 

[MEJHarrison]

I would say 3D Touch could absolutely be implemented without the fancy touch sensitive screen. But I think the part your missing is they would need to complicate the user interface considerably to support long touch, light press and hard press. I'm not saying it can't be done. But I think the resulting user interface would be sufficiently complicated that no one would end up using the features. It would turn into another "gimmick" feature because no one would want to hold an icon for 5-6 seconds when they could just go in the app and do their thing much quicker.

In my opinion it's not really a question of whether or not it can be done from a technical perspective. I just think if you took away the speed of force touching, you'd end up with something no one would want. It's the speed that makes this whole thing useful.

 

[boltjames]

I would say 3D Touch could absolutely be implemented without the fancy touch sensitive screen. But I think the part your missing is they would need to complicate the user interface considerably to support long touch, light press and hard press. I'm not saying it can't be done. But I think the resulting user interface would be sufficiently complicated that no one would end up using the features. It would turn into another "gimmick" feature because no one would want to hold an icon for 5-6 seconds when they could just go in the app and do their thing much quicker.

In my opinion it's not really a question of whether or not it can be done from a technical perspective. I just think if you took away the speed of force touching, you'd end up with something no one would want. It's the speed that makes this whole thing useful.

Good post.

But if you want to talk about confusion, I was on my home screen trying to delete an app. At first I pressed too quickly, and that launched the app. Then I went back again and pressed a little harder and that brought me to 3D Touch options with a flyout menu.Finding the sweet spot between the two to actually make the icons jiggle and delete is now quite complicated.

I would actually prefer just one method to interact with a home screen icon. Long press, fly out menu, menu includes the option for deletion or movement of the app. To me, that’s far less complicated.

 

[MEJHarrison]

Good post.

But if you want to talk about confusion, I was on my home screen trying to delete an app. At first I pressed too quickly, and that launched the app. Then I went back again and pressed a little harder and that brought me to 3D Touch options with a flyout menu.Finding the sweet spot between the two to actually make the icons jiggle and delete is now quite complicated.

I would actually prefer just one method to interact with a home screen icon. Long press, fly out menu, menu includes the option for deletion or movement of the app. To me, that’s far less complicated.

I just came from a 6 Plus, so I'm also new to 3D Touch or whatever it's called. I too have had to retrain my fingers to push just so. And I'm still in the process of figuring it out. Coming from such an old phone, there's been tons of new stuff to play with and this has been low on the list. So I don't have a ton of experience yet, though I have started checking it out. At this point it's still a conscious decision. I've not yet reached the point where I use it without even thinking about it. So I still find myself doing things the hard way (i.e. opening the App Store to search for something).

Anyway, beyond what I've already said, I have no interest in attempting to second guess why Apple did things the way they did. While I love my Apple devices, getting more money is certainly a possibility. Still, I think I'd rather have 3D Touch than some watered down, long press, super menu. So at the end of the day, while I do think they might have been able to find another way to accomplish the same thing, I'm not the least bit disappointed with 3D Touch. In fact I prefer it to any other option I've heard so far.