If you had to choose: Thunderbolt Vs Upgradeable GPU + PCIe slots?

[flat five]

Thanks for the tips, but I think I'll keep spreading the truth.

[...]
in a 2008-12 BEFORE the can even appears.

etc

the truth? as in macs have never been the highest spec'd machines on the market?
your 'truths' have always been the truth.. there is and always has been something that can 'beat' a brand new top of the line mac.. always


are you just now realizing this? because if so, it's not really necessary to keep soapboxing it because i'm pretty sure everybody else besides you already knows this.

and like it or not-- most people that buy macs (or any computer for that matter) simply do not care if they have the fastest/newest/latest/etc video card known to man.
i feel you're preaching to your own tiny choir about how slow and outdated the NewMacVidCards will be.. the people agreeing with you already agreed with you before the sermons.

what do you think will be a better overall performer- an off the shelf newmac or an old one with whatever pcigpu you can throw at it?
(redundant question to an extent.. i just don't know if you're willing to really think about that question instead of autopilot answer)

 

[Tesselator]

Thanks for the tips, but I think I'll keep spreading the truth.

But so far all you're doing is ignoring the truth.

"Rolling over and taking it" doesn't sound like good advice to me.

You can call it that if you like but it's not accurate to do so. The truth is that the design is set and we have no say-so for the upcoming nMP. And considering those in support of the nMP (ready and willing to buy it) are the majority you stand out as a rebel without a cause - only a Cassandra.

The only way Apple will listen is if these things sit on the shelves. I don't think they just want to be an iToys company. Voting with your wallet is the best way to get them to listen.

If I convince a few other people to do the same, more votes.

So you and a few of your "followers" are going to troll us to death whether we like it or not aye? Wow, that doesn't sound like much fun! You're already on record for your disapproval of the nMP why not just leave it at that? Why as a clear minority opinion must you now pledge to hound us all into submission?

It is already possible to put better GPUs in a 2008-2012 MP then anything Apple is offering for nMP.

And so it has been with every MacPro ever released. Again and again people have told you and even shown you clippings from Steve Jobs himself stating that Apple is NOT about bigger/better/faster cutting edge incrementalism. That's the PC market which you seem to be confusing with Apple. If you want that go WinTel (or even the illegal Hackintosh route).

"Accept it and tell others to do the same" sounds like what the alien invaders tell the helpless denizens of earth on a Sci Fi movie.

That seems to fit perfectly. I can see you really want to make war. You're gunning up and looking for enemies. But could you please do it on your own site, and not destroy this place in the process? No one but a few of your fans care about your war and all it will accomplish here (as evidenced so far) is to upset everyone and cause a lot of senseless and nonsensical bickering over and over in every thread. UG!

 

[flat five]

...Oops... Double-post. Sorry.

nah, i think you just deleted your post #

[EDIT] no, wait.. it's back again

 

[Tesselator]

nah, i think you just deleted your post #

[EDIT] no, wait.. it's back again

Yeah, I clicked Quote instead of Edit. I have a habit of editing my messages 3 or 4 times before I get all the spelling and missing words straightened out.

 

[MacVidCards]

I'm pretty sure the fastest GPUs going never to almost never utilize x16 v3 (~16GB/s). I'm going to go ahead and say ya, Never! Further I'm going to say the same in regards to x16 v2 (8GB/s) - ya, never. We might wanna think so tho.

It'll kinda be like putting a SATA3 SSD on a SATA2 connection. Some stuff will be throttled but most won't. And putting this card on any MacPro will also throttle it. It's a PCIe v3 x16 card and the nearest MacPro is half that.

So much for the truth. If it changes whenever you want to make a point, you aren't in possession of it.

Have a look at those colorful bars at top of thread, see who is in the minority.

 

[Tesselator]

^^^ Both are proper in the context and time-frame they came from. I am allowed to learn right?

So much for the truth. If it changes whenever you want to make a point, you aren't in possession of it.

Have a look at those colorful bars at top of thread, see who is in the minority.

Yes, just look at those bright colors: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1610878/

Nice attempt to take things out of context (and change the subject) though.

 

[VirtualRain]

Thanks for the tips, but I think I'll keep spreading the truth.

"Rolling over and taking it" doesn't sound like good advice to me.

The only way Apple will listen is if these things sit on the shelves. I don't think they just want to be an iToys company. Voting with your wallet is the best way to get them to listen.

If I convince a few other people to do the same, more votes.

And while you're here in this thread, have a look at those colorful bars at the top.

I think you're delusional if you believe any amount of grumbling or polls against the new Mac Pro will make one iota of difference. If this Mac Pro sits on the shelves and is a financial failure, we all know what the result will be... they might as well shut down this sub-forum if it comes to that. This is the last kick at the can for this computer segment from Apple.

 

[MacVidCards]

I think you're delusional if you believe any amount of grumbling or polls against the new Mac Pro will make one iota of difference. If this Mac Pro sits on the shelves and is a financial failure, we all know what the result will be... they might as well shut down this sub-forum if it comes to that. This is the last kick at the can for this computer segment from Apple.

So we should all be thankful for whatever scrap of a computer the Great Apple in the Sky tosses down for us?

What kind of thinking is that?

"We are not worthy" isn't the way to look at this.

If someone doesn't like it, they shouldn't buy it. And if someone likes it or has a use, great.

Why are those of us unhappy being asked to shut our traps?

What possible issue does telling the truth cause?

At least I'm being consistent. I don't claim that PCIE 2 bottlenecks cards in comparison to PCIE 3 when it suits my argument and then 2 weeks later claim the opposite when it suits a new argument I choose to make.

The truth stays the truth and if you are afraid of it you've got big problems.

I have spoken to several "Pros" here in Hollywood in the post biz. Not a one of them is excited or eager to get one of these new machines. That's the truth. Maybe a sudden influx of TB2 accessories will change that. But all of the talk about putting 6 or 7 GTXxxx cards in a TB2 box is like planning where you're going to go once that Air Car comes out that you read about in Popular Science back in Jr. High.

I don't believe for an instant that I personally can have any effect on the outcome, but why not try anyway? I voted for Obama but since he didn't win by 1 vote, does that mean I should have stayed home and watched TV?

Why are the Apologists so eager to have everyone sit down and sing the Apple Corporate Tune? I hardly consider myself the ringleader, the argument went on just fine while I was on vacation for 2 weeks. Can hardly hold me accountable for that. I literally had NOTHING to do with it, so I guess it isn't just me.

Anyway, last time I checked, this particular thread is a poll. And that poll indicates that the people who have read and responded are 2 to 1 in favor of "old school" vs iCan. So who is the majority and who is the minority? At least in this thread, it's pretty obvious.

I had a crazy thought the other day. Imagine if instead it was HP who announced that PCIE was dead and they were going to end their server & workstation lines and intro a tiny circular computer that could only connect to other things through a proprietary port that they worked out with Intel. We'd all be laughing ourselves off our chairs.

 

[Sean Dempsey]

I tip my jug at you for this fine thread. Nothing like a completely obvious strawman poll to stir up the forums.

If I was at a computer I'd type more, but since I'm on my iPad mini 16gb black (wifi only) ill just say: this thread having over 300 posts is proof Jesus died in vain.

 

[Tesselator]

So we should all be thankful for whatever scrap of a computer the Great Apple in the Sky tosses down for us?

So you're telling us you don't have a choice?

What kind of thinking is that?

Standard consumerism.

"We are not worthy" isn't the way to look at this.

Only you are saying we're looking at it like that. It's not the case of course though.

If someone doesn't like it, they shouldn't buy it. And if someone likes it or has a use, great.

Exactly! See, you do get it!

Why are those of us unhappy being asked to shut our traps?

What possible issue does telling the truth cause?

It's one thing to go on record as disapproving or not interested. It's quite another to raise the same points over and over endlessly in every thread like it's some kind of mission. And you don't just make your points and leave it alone either. You argue, challenge, ridicule, and even attack anyone who has a different opinion from your own. Doing that just makes this an unpleasant place to be.

 

[tuxon86]

So you're telling us you don't have a choice?


Standard consumerism.


Only you are saying we're looking at it like that. It's not the case of course though.


Exactly! See, you do get it!


It's one thing to go on record as disapproving or not interested. It's quite another to raise the same points over and over endlessly in every thread like it's some kind of mission. And you don't just make your points and leave it alone either. You argue, challenge, ridicule, and even attack anyone who has a different opinion from your own. Doing that just makes this an unpleasant place to be.

You are equaly guilty when it comes to personal attack so you shouldn't protest too much. Beside none of you are mods, so you should also stop trying to tell the rest of us what to do.

If you don't like what we are saying, you're free to ignore us or leave the thread.

 

[MacVidCards]

If you don't like what we are saying, you're free to ignore us or leave the thread.

Comes to a thread that IS a poll that is currently 2 to 1 AGAINST nMP, sings praises of the Poll loser while calling out those who side with poll winner.

Wonders why there is friction.

Hmmm.......

 

[VirtualRain]

At least I'm being consistent.

Yes. No doubt about that.

I was on vacation for 2 weeks

It was the best two weeks on this forum in recent memory. Your posts on this subject are occasionally funny, but most of the time condescending.

It's one thing to go on record as disapproving or not interested. It's quite another to raise the same points over and over endlessly in every thread like it's some kind of mission. And you don't just make your points and leave it alone either. You argue, challenge, ridicule, and even attack anyone who has a different opinion from your own. Doing that just makes this an unpleasant place to be

+1

 

[MacVidCards]

Yes. No doubt about that.



It was the best two weeks on this forum in recent memory. Your posts on this subject are occasionally funny, but most of the time condescending.



+1

I'm sorry, but telling us all that we had better learn to like the nMP and buy some or our Benevolent Benefactor, their esteemedness Apple, may stop giving us permission to throw $3K at them is the height of condescension.

And telling me I should not say anything more because you personally don't agree, not good either.

You guys have your right to sing the praises & the joys of TB and that nifty PCIE SSD and the Whirling Dervish/Lazy Susan pedestal, etc.

And we have our right to disagree and point out nonsense when we see it. (FI, PCIE 2 vs PCIE 3 flip flop waffle fest)

It's a fun little computer. It just isn't a Mac Pro.

 

[Tesselator]

It was the best two weeks on this forum in recent memory.

+1

Yup, it really was. Civil discussion, everyone making their points and considering the points of others, and without the constant "Last Word" argumentative attitudes. I felt a totally different energy here. Oh well, it was nice while it lasted. I guess it's back to bickering and name calling then aye? UG!

----------

And we have our right to disagree and point out nonsense when we see it.

Actually I don't think you do. At least not over and over and over like you have here now and in the other threads from two weeks back. That behavior is outlined in the rules as trolling.

 

[GermanyChris]

I still disagree

You're still wrong Tessolator & Co.

 

[slughead]

Thanks for the tips, but I think I'll keep spreading the truth.

"Rolling over and taking it" doesn't sound like good advice to me.

The only way Apple will listen is if these things sit on the shelves. I don't think they just want to be an iToys company. Voting with your wallet is the best way to get them to listen.

If I convince a few other people to do the same, more votes.

So I should shut up and move on. Discussing the merits of new vs old hardware is "just bitching".

And here I thought this was a discussion board.

The funny part is, a lot of these nMP folks have been spreading misinformation like GPUs over TB aren't throttled, TB2 is 40gbit/s, Apple had to use proprietary cards. Just by us spreading the truth about this product people are getting wise to it's crappiness.

One person even criticized the poll up top, saying it was a biased question and it was actually consumer choice that made Apple cripple upgradability (that's not even an exaggeration, they actually said that). Yes, consumers wanted non-upgradable video cards.

----------

I think you're delusional if you believe any amount of grumbling or polls against the new Mac Pro will make one iota of difference. If this Mac Pro sits on the shelves and is a financial failure, we all know what the result will be... they might as well shut down this sub-forum if it comes to that. This is the last kick at the can for this computer segment from Apple.

LOL what? Why would they shut down a forum for something tons of people want to talk about? MP sales have been stagnant for years and yet there are still people here.

Also, you think that if the nMP fails that Apple will bail out of the pro market? What makes you think that?

 

[Tesselator]

I still disagree

You're still wrong Tessolator & Co.

That's cool, no problem. What do you disagree with? What am I wrong about? If I'm wrong about something I wanna learn and correct it.




----------

The funny part is, a lot of these nMP folks have been spreading misinformation like GPUs over TB aren't throttled, TB2 is 40gbit/s, Apple had to use proprietary cards.

No misinformation there. The 40gbit was my momentary mistake and was corrected in the next post or two. In context: GUPs when used as compute devices over TB1 are not throttled and there's probably enough bandwidth that a person could connect 4 or 5 GPGPUs per TB2 controller - without any throttling. About the only thing ya can't do is use it for intensive gaming and expect the best frame rates. Light to medium gaming (which is the majority of available games BTW) with one very fast card over TB2 - again no throttling.

I dunno what you're talking about with the proprietary GPU card thing. That's a given. The form-factor and probably the connector Apple is using in the nMP for the built-in GPUs is proprietary as we can plainly see.

 

[flat five]

I'm sorry, but telling us all that we had better learn to like the nMP and buy some or our Benevolent Benefactor, their esteemedness Apple, may stop giving us permission to throw $3K at them is the height of condescension.

it doesn't matter if you don't like the new computer.. it doesn't matter if it won't suit your needs..
you still must buy one.. give all your money to almighty apple. you have no choice.


just figuring since you're on a truth crusade, i might as well help you out.. what you said was a blatant lie but now it's the truth because someone (me) has actually told you what you're saying people have told you.

 

[beaker7]

the truth? as in macs have never been the highest spec'd machines on the market?
your 'truths' have always been the truth.. there is and always has been something that can 'beat' a brand new top of the line mac..

This is true but this will be the first time in the Mac Pro era where the performance penalty has been so large.

Half, or less, than industry standard compute performance.

One fourth standard workstation memory capacity.

Half, or less, than industry standard PCI-E bandwidth.

I like the new Mac Pro for what it is. It's just disappointing that they're no longer will be a reasonable competitive option at the high end.

 

[MacVidCards]

This is true but this will be the first time in the Mac Pro era where the performance penalty has been so large.

Half, or less, than industry standard compute performance.

One fourth standard workstation memory capacity.

Half, or less, than industry standard PCI-E bandwidth.

I like the new Mac Pro for what it is. It's just disappointing that they're no longer will be a reasonable competitive option at the high end.

Macs weren't always the red headed step child of PC horsepower wars.

How soon we forget.

"Apple is proud to be able to introduce the most powerful graphics processing unit on the planet first on a Mac," said Philip Schiller, Apple's vice-president of Worldwide Product Marketing. "The all-new Power Mac G4 with Velocity Engine, when combined with the incredible NVIDIA GeForce3 GPU, delivers industry-leading computing and graphics performance to Mac customers."

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=562

Steve Jobs was in Tokyo for Macworld 2001 to announce the powerful new, MARKET CLASS GPUs, surprised Tess doesn't remember.

Macs got latest and greatest GPU BEFORE PCs then.

They were still trying to compete.

Aside form which, even if you accept Macs as being not in front running, as they no longer are, this is still the first time that the outgoing model had the ability to have higher specs then new.

A Titan/GTX780 beats a Fire-Pro. So new ones will have less powerful GPUs then what you can put in old. When G5 came out, it didn't have crappier cards than G4. And they managed to switch to a more proprietary format and still have better cards . (AGP Pro vs AGP)

And it looks like it will be possible to have faster PCIE SSDs in old than new. Another "lose".

Glad we cleared that FUD up.

Next?

 

[flat five]

Half, or less, than industry standard PCI-E bandwidth.

I like the new Mac Pro for what it is. It's just disappointing that they're no longer will be a reasonable competitive option at the high end.

maybe..
but the point that people are trying to make which nobody is willing to accept is how little pcie bandwith has to do with having a solid platform in which to work from.. most people don't even use their slots.. many people that do use them appear to have problems and have to come up with hacks/workarounds trying multiple cards etc til they find one that works..

they aren't the best solution.. (most) people don't want to tinker around with their computers and research online how to fidget with the thing in order to make it work.. they want to buy something- plug it in- and it does exactly what it's supposed to do with no further fiddling around.

pcie slots are not a professional solution to expandability.. they are a hobbyist/enthusiast solution (not meant to imply that some pros don't harbor those qualities)..
i get it that everybody doesn't feel that way.. some people want to tinker with their computers.. some people's main purpose in owning a computer is to tinker with it and try get high benchmark score.. that's perfectly acceptable (though i really do think macs are the wrong platform to use for that.. probably the laughing stock of all computer tinkerers).. but seriously, most (all of the people i personally know using macs) people just don't care about benchmarks.. they want to turn things on and they work exactly as their supposed to with as little hassle as possible.

 

[beaker7]

pcie slots are not a professional solution to expandability.. they are a hobbyist/enthusiast solution .

Oh I totally understand your point, I just don't agree at all. Slots are a big part of a professional workstation solution.

Also don't know what you're referring to about PCI-E slot usage being problematic. I buy a card, plug it in, and it works.

Perhaps the purported low usage rate of PCI-E slots in Mac Pro's to date was more about the fact that the slot configuration has always been half assed in the Mac Pro.

I had been hoping the lengthy redesign time had meant that they were going to fix the Mac Pro's historical shortcomings, instead they doubled down on all of them.

 

[flat five]

Perhaps the purported low usage rate of PCI-E slots in Mac Pro's to date was more about the fact that the slot configuration has always been half assed in the Mac Pro.

right. i agree.
they could of been better in the current macs.. a lot better*. but it's just weird to see a lot of people talking as if the current mac is the holy grail of expandability when all you can really do with it is throw in a few hard drives and a slim choice of gpus (unless you go the hack/hobby route of flashed PC cards etc.. again- definitely not a true pro solution though)

*and i do think intel/apple has recognized the pitfalls of pcie expansion and have made it better.. they've made it easier and i'm willing to bet $ that a helluva lot more people are going to be using pci (thunderbolt) than ever before.. just thinking about the mbp, i bet more people are already using TBpci as opposed to the express card slots which used to be on the laptops.. once the new mac comes out and settles in and more TB accessories become available, i bet that number will increase dramatically..

from both a corporate and user standpoint, i think it's way smarter to provide an expansion solution which the majority of users will utilize- even if it's half the speed.. as opposed to building a computer based around pci-e slots and internal hard drives even though maybe 10% of users will actually use it..

and hey, if you're in that 10%, it sucks.. i truly do understand that..
i really don't think apple would have ripped the pci slots out of there if a large percentage of its customers were using them.. that's what bums me out in some of these conversations-- the argument that apple did exactly that.. to me, they made a smart decision both for the sake of keeping the mac pro as a product and offering a better base for the majority of their users to launch from..

I had been hoping the lengthy redesign time had meant that they were going to fix the Mac Pro's historical shortcomings, instead they doubled down on all of them.

i guess we'll just have to wait and see.. yes, they're taking a risk here and gambling that more people will prefer the new design.. and seriously, i like that they're taking a risk with such a huge amount of $$ involved etc.. i'd much rather them do that then to just play it safe and continue building the same computer everyone else is building..
because that's the safety net we consumers all have going for us.. if this new mac ends up being a POS in real world, then we have plenty of other options to fall back on.. if apple were the only computer manufacturers out there, i'd probably feel a lot less gung-ho about their all-in attitude and would feel much better if they simply flirted with this new mac while continuing to provide the tried and tested model as well.. but since there are other means of obtaining the tried&tested boxes, i don't feel it's as important for apple to offer us a safety net.

 

[akdj]

You're right, PCIe upgrading is "old school"....

I *like* old school.

Go to the Mac Pro forum, click on "Views" to sort threads by most views (or just click here). It is absolutely astonishing how many of the very most popular threads are about upgrading. CPUs, GPUs, USB 3.0, Airport cards, SSDs. "New school" is throwing all that richness and diversity away.

Hey, if you never needed or cared to do this stuff, the new Mac Pro will be great for you; I get that. For the people doing the literally millions of page views on those upgrade threads, well it sucks for us.

People doing 'literally millions of page views aren't working with and using the Mac Pro for what it's made for. Of the dozens of colleagues I work with, all using the Mac Pros...from the old 'G' towers to the latest 2010-12 updates couldn't care less about MR. They're working, making money, and paying a new one off literally weekly, sometimes daily

Your links are incredibly humorous. Tinkerers attempting to increase frame rates with hacks and trial and error...for what? Crisis? WoW? If you're utilizing 'pro' programs...photoshop, Premier (Quadro/CUDA)--After Effects, Smoke or Maya...any creative, existing software, the current MP is still a smoking machine, with incredible reliability of both hardware and the OS its built on. Other than me...none of them give two turds in a basket of what's underneath, what IS allowing them to continuously churn out their dailies.

If you truly like old school, grab some wax, a turntable...a D4 pad and drop the needle. You've no clue what this machine is gonna offer...it's already leaked incredible benchmarks for a machine 12% the size of the existing model. With built in PCIe SSDs that no one is buying right now but the richest of companies...and the highest performing GPU Apple's ever offered. With unparalleled external I/O...USB 3 and you're into the 'old school'. It's a good thing we've got forward thinkers in positions like Apple's design team. They revolutionized the phone. Tablet and mobile computing, the 'netbook' or lightweight computing...and the current rMBPs. The AIO many years ago...that 99% of the public is MORE than fine with....why bet against this machine? Again...when you know nothing about it other than Pixar's team was blown away by a software port...a week old, that performed many times better than what they were currently using?

I'm having a hard time following you...and I read this entire thread...I quoted you dozens of times with responses..but after reading through, I've come to the conclusion that its YOU that isn't using a MP for what it's made for. You're posting constantly on an enthusiasts forum. Pros don't care. They're busy making it work. If Apple doesn't offer what they need, they move to a system that does. Pretty simple actually

This thread is just amazing.

I honestly can't believe you guys are still bickering over this crap, when what you should be making noise about is how Apple is behaving. Their actions are inexcusable for the professional market. You do not tie people to your hardware and software and pull the rug up out from underneath everyone just because you can, in the name of fashion or profit or both.

None of this would be a problem if we had choice. That is what you should all be angry about. The fact that you have no choice with Apple anymore. It's their way or the high way. That is ******** and frankly I'm tired of being told what I'm going to buy and how I'm going to use my computer, both by Apple and the majority of you Thunderbolt defenders.

If they wanted to, they could have updated the old Mac Pro and released it with newer processors alongside the Mac Pro Mini. But they didn't, because they know everyone will blanch over the new machine IF THEY HAVE A CHOICE. So their solution was to REMOVE YOUR CHOICE, plain and simple, therefore guaranteeing the machine will be a hit sale wise because YOU HAVE NO MORE CHOICE.

But whatever, by all means continue arguing over this TB and PCI-e crap. TB and PCI-e are not the problem. Apple's way of thinking and their behaviour is. I don't know why you guys continue to put up with this ****, it's unbelievable. None of you would have a leg to stand on if we had the option between either interface, because then everyone could just use what they want or need. It's 20-****ing-13 and I can't believe that some company as big as Apple can't offer a ****ing choice anymore. That is beyond pathetic.

-SC

I remember your type when they removed the floppy too. And serial and parallel. And when the added FW800. You're another I don't believe uses a MP for what it's actually built for. Apple and the team employed is much smarter than the group slamming the removal of PCIe slots that were damn near worthless anyway...not enough third party support for such an incredibly small market. Say what you want about the options available. There never have been nor ever will be PCIe options comparable to Windows boxes. You'd think your love for slots would've driven you to the other side of the road many years ago...why ate you still here?

+1

I hope you're not wearing something that stains.

It's holy HELL getting Kool Aid out and I see a veritable gusher of it heading your way.

The apologists are imbued with a unique form of intellectual dishonesty, obvious truths don't concern them.

The fact that you can now install a 100% functional GPU in a 2008-2012 MP that will slaughter any of the listed nMP GPUs BEFORE IT EVEN COMES OUT is another piece of evidence.

New PCIE SSDs will offer faster storage to MP owners than that available in nMP.

We will probably soon have the ability to upgrade out Wireless to a faster (or at least equal) standard.

Railroad the customer at all costs is the new mantra.

They have become the exact people they derided in their "1984" commercial.

"Think Different" has become "Think like a Shareholder"

And yet the GPUs YOU sell aren't 'railroading'? Payment of double or triple in some cases for a Windows equivalent GPU? Are you concerned about losing business? I've still got a pair 2009 and 2010 Mac Pros. For what we do, I want pro cards. I could care less about the gamer's card of the week is.

It's tough to take your comments seriously. You've got a very vested interest in PCIe not going away. I would assume you're fine for some time...as it looks like there are 5 or 6 old school MP lovers blanketing this thread with almost a dozen pages now. You can market to them. I don't doubt your prowess. In fact, I applaud what you've done for our community. But I would also like to believe its YOU that's gonna figure out the way to make TB2 work...external GPUs, aggregating the bandwidth, figuring out how to update the current options internally....
...and continue to serve the 'old' MP community for years to come. They're not going anywhere. Those machines last forever (other than some power supplies)

Citation needed.

Please name one other system that boots Mac OS X natively and doesn't require third party or hacked kernel extensions that may or may not break with each successive OS update.

My primary means of income happens to be via my day job as a freelance iOS developer. I have been extremely lucky and continue to make boatloads of cash off my iOS applications, especially in contrast to other mobile platforms (Android and Blackberry).

I've invested tens of thousands of dollars into high-end Macintosh equipment and all the wonderful support equipment I use every single day (Poly AT MIDI keyboard, Wacom Cintiq, my Eizo monitor, a bunch of audio gear and a whole collection of iOS devices). My Mac Pro is loaded to the gills with all kinds of hardware, and even more sitting in an external Magma chassis (over the second PCI-e 16x link in my tower, so no, Thunderbolt will not suffice).

So really, I have no choice. If I want to continue using the software I've bought OS X licenses for, if I want to continue using the OS X specific hardware I've bought (most notably, my Apogee Symphony I/O)... I have to keep a Macintosh around somewhere, and that will likely have to remain my primary workstation since I use iCloud extensively for my mail and device synchronization.

I swear, folks who say "LOL, just switch platforms, chill dude, it's no big deal" are clearly not Apple oriented "professionals". Some of us use our computers to make money, rather then surfing Youtube and posting on Facebook.

-SC

You're not interacting with people using their MPs surfing Facebook or watching YouTube videos. Don't let your arrogance get the best of you. I know several extremely successful developers for iOS and Android that are working on laptops and iMacs. Ask the fellas at Rovio what they built the original and second version of Angry Birds on

I'd be very curious how complex these 'iOS' apps you're developing are that require the extensions and proprietary software you're using. And again, don't believe for a second iOS development will exceed the nMP's abilities at least within the next 5 years...NOR will your rig all the sudden stop being able to do what you need it to
No one on THIS forum is drinking the 'kool aid'. Isn't that a bit cliché at this point?

Thanks for the tips, but I think I'll keep spreading the truth.

"Rolling over and taking it" doesn't sound like good advice to me.

The only way Apple will listen is if these things sit on the shelves. I don't think they just want to be an iToys company. Voting with your wallet is the best way to get them to listen.

If I convince a few other people to do the same, more votes.

It is already possible to put better GPUs in a 2008-2012 MP then anything Apple is offering for nMP. Will be interesting to see how many more parts of machine will be "stuck in time" like an iMac and can be bettered by PCIE peripherals in a 2008-12 BEFORE the can even appears.

"Accept it and tell others to do the same" sounds like what the alien invaders tell the helpless denizens of earth on a Sci Fi movie.

And while you're here in this thread, have a look at those colorful bars at the top.

Take two. We can put better cards in the 08-12 machines. Bit we have to spend a couple grand (and hope it works) to put PCIe storage in, USB 3? Thunderbolt? Oh....and shave 85% the bulk n size? Forget the colored bars. The poll is seriously flawed to elicit a specific repsonse.

So we should all be thankful for whatever scrap of a computer the Great Apple in the Sky tosses down for us?

What kind of thinking is that?

"We are not worthy" isn't the way to look at this.

If someone doesn't like it, they shouldn't buy it. And if someone likes it or has a use, great.

Why are those of us unhappy being asked to shut our traps?

What possible issue does telling the truth cause?

At least I'm being consistent. I don't claim that PCIE 2 bottlenecks cards in comparison to PCIE 3 when it suits my argument and then 2 weeks later claim the opposite when it suits a new argument I choose to make.

The truth stays the truth and if you are afraid of it you've got big problems.

I have spoken to several "Pros" here in Hollywood in the post biz. Not a one of them is excited or eager to get one of these new machines. That's the truth. Maybe a sudden influx of TB2 accessories will change that. But all of the talk about putting 6 or 7 GTXxxx cards in a TB2 box is like planning where you're going to go once that Air Car comes out that you read about in Popular Science back in Jr. High.

I don't believe for an instant that I personally can have any effect on the outcome, but why not try anyway? I voted for Obama but since he didn't win by 1 vote, does that mean I should have stayed home and watched TV?

Why are the Apologists so eager to have everyone sit down and sing the Apple Corporate Tune? I hardly consider myself the ringleader, the argument went on just fine while I was on vacation for 2 weeks. Can hardly hold me accountable for that. I literally had NOTHING to do with it, so I guess it isn't just me.

Anyway, last time I checked, this particular thread is a poll. And that poll indicates that the people who have read and responded are 2 to 1 in favor of "old school" vs iCan. So who is the majority and who is the minority? At least in this thread, it's pretty obvious.

I had a crazy thought the other day. Imagine if instead it was HP who announced that PCIE was dead and they were going to end their server & workstation lines and intro a tiny circular computer that could only connect to other things through a proprietary port that they worked out with Intel. We'd all be laughing ourselves off our chairs.

HP would be smart to innovate. Maybe you should start selling PC/Windows cards? You and your 'friends in Hollywood'. Always makes me laugh. Post houses are now in every corner of the world.

Pros don't care about the latest gaming cards. They're using professional graphic solutions and typically stick with what they have for years. I see the sales person coming out in your posts...one after another

Comes to a thread that IS a poll that is currently 2 to 1 AGAINST nMP, sings praises of the Poll loser while calling out those who side with poll winner.

Wonders why there is friction.

Hmmm.......

Lol. You and that silly biased poll. Are you starting to see a pattern here?

I'm sorry, but telling us all that we had better learn to like the nMP and buy some or our Benevolent Benefactor, their esteemedness Apple, may stop giving us permission to throw $3K at them is the height of condescension.

And telling me I should not say anything more because you personally don't agree, not good either.

You guys have your right to sing the praises & the joys of TB and that nifty PCIE SSD and the Whirling Dervish/Lazy Susan pedestal, etc.

And we have our right to disagree and point out nonsense when we see it. (FI, PCIE 2 vs PCIE 3 flip flop waffle fest)

It's a fun little computer. It just isn't a Mac Pro.

Not a Mac Pro? It's benching 10-15% faster in CPU loads (if we are to believe in geekbench 32 bit scores and posts) than the current fastest MP. Out of the box, in comparison to the existing out of the box MP, its storage solution is 1,000% faster....the GPU, in computing power, exponentially faster. Not a 'pro' computer. Lol. Not to a guy that sells old school PCIe video cards I suppose. For those producing content. Yep, and you can put 6 or 8 of them in the same space!

Oh I totally understand your point, I just don't agree at all. Slots are a big part of a professional workstation solution.

Also don't know what you're referring to about PCI-E slot usage being problematic. I buy a card, plug it in, and it works.

Perhaps the purported low usage rate of PCI-E slots in Mac Pro's to date was more about the fact that the slot configuration has always been half assed in the Mac Pro.

I had been hoping the lengthy redesign time had meant that they were going to fix the Mac Pro's historical shortcomings, instead they doubled down on all of them.

Precisely. Bad configuration to date. Not a lot of room to expand on the current configuration. A tiny population of PCIe cards available for the MP and the ones that are tend to take up enough room to eliminate at least one of the other three left....and no, you don't just buy a card and plug into the MP. It doesn't work like that. Never has. There's been more issues with PCIe cards in the MP than any off the shelf Windows machine I've ever bought. It's a joke.

Kinda wild. There aren't but about a half dozen evangelists in this 10 page thread that don't see the future. The big beige box is gone. In ten years it won't exist. Smaller form factor, bigger power, unlimited external expandibility, extremely fast storage...that will continue to speed up and approach RAM/swap speeds, so more RAM will be less of a big deal....these are the sweet spots. When you see laptops outselling desktops and tablets closing in on laptops...isn't it obvious where the future if computing is going?

The current rMBP is quite capable coding an iOS app...or even a Mac app on its own. This new MP is absolutely going to be a bad ass little rig. Don't want it, like the three or four of you have made clear, don't buy it. Lets see what the rest of the world does.