I’ve used windows in the past at home and had poor experiences. I’m glad it works for you. I’ve never had the same luck.
see post #88.
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iPad Pro I'm a big iPad fan but isn't the Surface Pro more of a "pro" than the new iPads?
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I’ve used windows in the past at home and had poor experiences. I’m glad it works for you. I’ve never had the same luck.
see post #88.
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Yes. That is the very definition of 'anecdotal'. If it does not work for you, thinking that is does not work for the rest of the world also.
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That it works in my case (and millions of others) proves it can work. So now the issue is
what is it your software/hardware set up that is causing problems.
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I made the on screen keyboard vanish on the SPro6 (Don’t know how) - which makes me laugh in hindsight. Ditto for the Arc mouse not pairing up on the Surface Book 2.
Perhaps I’ll try again at some point. As far as the iPad Pros, I know what my creative flow is on them, and that’s how I will use them going forward.
I think it’s great that some people only use an iPad or iPP. Ditto for the Surface Pro. Get whatever works best for your work and play.
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If you’re in the States, watch for Microcenter’s discounts and then bring those to Best Buy and ask to price match. Microcenter had sales on Surface Book 2s last week. Try Microsofts’ online store too.
Best Buy were more than happy to price match Apple stuff to Microcenter’s sales today, my credit card was not though (refused by AI)
. In fact, the BB manager and a sales associate both promised they would gladly price match any time I ask going forward.
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Windows works for everyone. It’s fine. The question here is how well does it work for some people. A lot of people find macOS better. I haven’t heard a lot of people who specifically prefers Windows to macOS. However, getting a fully functional, often very powerful computer for way less money, getting a specific hardware option not availalable in Apple world or being a PC gamer - are some of several very good reasons to get a PC. But for a lot of people, macOS, macOS apps and the Apple ecosystem is the reason they go to the Mac. Trying to convince these people that somehow Windows is just as good is just like trying to convince people who need, say, high end GPUs that Macs are cool too.
So, it’s not exactly anecdotal, it’s millions of people that don’t want to use Windows. Just like even more people want to use PC hardware and don’t want to use Macs. But if @Shanghaichica says Windows doesn’t work for them, I believe it.
My reaction was on a post of @Shanghaichica.
He/she claimed Windows crashes multiple times a day, gives lots of error messages a day and is not an OS fit for professional use. That goes beyond 'it does not work for me'.
The generalization you bring is nice and agreeable, but has nothing to do with the context that post was in. You should read the whole post from the start.
What you are bringing up, I agree with for the most part, but is a whole different discussion altogether.
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You’re right, I didn’t take the whole context into account. I apologize. I am not a big fan of Windows, but it is certainly fit for professional use, and used by professionals in huge numbers.
I would say that over the years, the situation has changed a lot and the gap between MacOS and Windows has narrowed significantly. Running MacOS these days it seems I get a lot more crashes and spinning beachballs than in the past, and at the same time Windows is more robust and stable than in the past.
Both are mature platforms that are mostly being refined rather than taking giant leaps forward. Where Apple and Microsoft have a fundamental difference is how they approach mobile. Microsoft has been trying to build a single OS for everything while Apple built a separate OS for mobile.
I'm of the "think different" mindset. I don't see any reason why we need separate operating systems. The system should be able to adapt to the use case. While nobody has yet achieved this perfectly, I think Microsoft has made incremental progress after many failed attempts, but will eventually get there. From what I have seen, Apple seems steadfast in a dual system approach.
Sadly, Windows updates, UI inconsistency, lack of beautiful 3rd party apps and and a much smaller number of practical quality of life improvements make Windows still far inferior to macOS. Gap may have narrowed, but it’s still not even close. And that’s even before we take macOS integration with other Apple devices into account.
Also, latest blunders like erasing the documents of users after an update does not help Windows’ robust image.
Imo it’s not fit for professional use because of the experiences I’ve had with it both professionally and privately. However I am aware that many organisations all over the world use windows computers. They are cheap and you can get a job done on them. We have 7 PCs on our ward and only 3 of them are worth using. The rest of them need to go in the bin.
Convergence of mobile and deskop is, actually, short-term thinking and not playing the long game. First of all, I wouldn’t call it mobile and desktop, I would use modern and classic terms instead. While Microsoft is trying to create a “compromise” between the two, sticking modern concepts onto a traditional core, Apple is trying to evolve its modern OS into something versatile and fully capable. Just like Microsoft’s efforts, they are not there yet, but will eventually will be. Until that time, they are improving and polishing macOS to allow iOS to be its own thing and not compromising it. The question is, who will get there first - will Microsoft create a truly modern Windows before Apple creates a truly versatile and capable iOS. And when they both get there, which one will be more optimized for the new way of thinking when it comes to computers. My guess: Apple.
That's what I mean with 'anecdotal evidence'. Your experience is bad and therefore you assume it is not fit for profesional use. Yet 90% of the world uses Windows professionally.
Here you are mixing up Windows and hardware. A cheap crappy computer has nothing to do with Windows. If someone buys cheap unreliable hardware don't blame Windows. PC's are available in all price ranges and not only in cheap ranges. There are lots of PC's available in the 'Apple' price range as well with arguable the same (or maybe even better) quality.
Again you are blaming cheap or unreliable hardware, not Windows. Ask your employer to buy decent hardware instead of the unreliable/old/cheapo/crappy (take your pick) stuff you have at your job.
In short:
I am not defending Windows here per se.
I understand it completely when you say you prefer MacOS over Windows. But the conclusion you draw (that Windows is bad, period) is based on false premises and does not comply with facts. The bad experiences you have are based on cheapo hardware. If you would/could install MacOS on the same 7 computers on your ward they would crash just as badly and just as often. Would you blame MacOS then?
Professionally I use MacOS, Linux and Windows. All of them are perfectly capable of doing a professional job. All of them have strengths and weaknesses. In the end it's just about picking the right tool in the right situation.
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The hardware I bought for personal use at home was not cheap and it still failed every time. It’s my own opinion that windows is not suitable. However it doesn’t mean that this opinion is shared because obviously windows is the most popular computer operating system in the world. I understand that windows can get a job done but I don’t like all the maintenance and troubleshooting you need. This isn’t just my own experience. Everyone in my family are always complaining about the issues they have wit their windows computers but they are a bit more patient than me and are ready to troubleshoot. I think my dad actually enjoys it though.
New computers have been ordered for work. They should be here soon. However nobody is very optimistic as all my colleagues have said they don’t think it will be long before the new computers start playing up.
I am going to try windows 10 soon because I’ve heard it’s improved la lot.
I'm still amazed this question or statement even pops up. I've used windows since the 90s, built my share of PC's, have been certified in Office since 90s, teach Excel classes, heck, I was even iphone excited like on getting new Office or Windows versions way back when. Now that's pretty nerdy..lol
But as a father for over 12 years now, PC knowledge has went down the crapper for general users IMO. Kids seem oblivious. Schools have chromebooks or ipads early on. I have to take it upon myself to teach my daughter PC skills and I'm glad she's interested enough to have wanted a PC and keep learning on her own. So I can see why these questions are popping up. I've been using macs since the iphone 6 or so. Being able to run windows on it is essential. MacOS is still mostly personal use though.
I enjoy using an ipad. It's consumption only and a change of pace. The fact it isn't windows, simple, and convenient, IS its strength. But it doesn't mean i want to try to fit it in professionally. I prefer it as an entertainment device. But wow..are people still asking if a windows PC (Surface) is more "pro" than a simple ipad running a very limited mobile OS??? lol That's just incredible. Or is it sad? You just want to shake your head..
I even have staff accountants that can't type. A few you can tell are PC illiterate. At the very least, do your kids a favor and quit buying ipads or chromebooks for them. Get them a PC or Mac. Teach them Office.
But as a father for over 12 years now, PC knowledge has went down the crapper for general users IMO. Kids seem oblivious. Schools have chromebooks or ipads early on. I have to take it upon myself to teach my daughter PC skills and I'm glad she's interested enough to have wanted a PC and keep learning on her own. So I can see why these questions are popping up. I've been using macs since the iphone 6 or so. Being able to run windows on it is essential. MacOS is still mostly personal use though.
I enjoy using an ipad. It's consumption only and a change of pace. The fact it isn't windows, simple, and convenient, IS its strength. But it doesn't mean i want to try to fit it in professionally. I prefer it as an entertainment device. But wow..are people still asking if a windows PC (Surface) is more "pro" than a simple ipad running a very limited mobile OS??? lol That's just incredible. Or is it sad? You just want to shake your head..
I even have staff accountants that can't type. A few you can tell are PC illiterate. At the very least, do your kids a favor and quit buying ipads or chromebooks for them. Get them a PC or Mac. Teach them Office.
It really depends on what you are using it for. My computing needs are very minimal so I can get by on an iPad and for work we can’t use personal devices due to patient confidentiality. Now if I needed to do things like spreadsheets, graphs, reports, data analysis etc I couldn’t use an iPad as it’s not capable of those tasks. My personal choice would be a MacBook. However if you presented me with an iPad pro or surface pro and asked me to to do those types of tasks I would pick the surface pro despite my dislike for windows.
On a side note my children are not of school age yet but don’t they teach children IT skills anymore in school. When I was at school we were taught how to use Microsoft office.
what is pro?
It would be better to renounce such names as pro and introduce something like iPad Power or something. Apart from that, which is already pro for one, that is still kindergarten for someone else. I have a gaming PC with an i7, with which I mainly play, I do not need such power to work. Maybe more demanding games for ios should come out to make better use of the ipads, then the power would make more sense again.
It would be better to renounce such names as pro and introduce something like iPad Power or something. Apart from that, which is already pro for one, that is still kindergarten for someone else. I have a gaming PC with an i7, with which I mainly play, I do not need such power to work. Maybe more demanding games for ios should come out to make better use of the ipads, then the power would make more sense again.
It seems like your conflating Windows problems with hardware issues.
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I have used both Windows and MacOs for over 20 years and my take away is that they
are, and at least since 1998, have been very simiar. Since 2012 Apple has done a good
job integrating mobile and desktop, but recent updates to iCloud and ios has made
my windows-to-ios experience comparable.
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I think the thing with ipad, is there is a brand participation thing. So ipad enthusiasts jump through hoops to
do simple productivity tasks on an ipad because they attribute to ios some futuristic cache.
Ios is intrinsically simpler than full OS, but it does not scale well for productivity tasks.
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I tend to think neither convergence nor iOS taking over macOS is the path Apple is or should be taking. I used to think their insistence on keeping Macs/macOS and iPads/iOS separate was just a dirty money grab, which it might be partly, but I think it’s more. To me the two OSes seem to fill two fundamentally different but practically overlapping needs. Namely flexibility and ease of use—these are two ends of a single spectrum. macOS focuses on flexibility, and is designed for a hardware form factor designed for long tasks. iOS focuses on ease of use, and is designed for a hardware form factor designed for quick tasks or long consumption.
The confusion comes in though because the two form factors have a similarity—the screen—and with some compromise, they can be finagled to resemble each other. But even if that hardware compromise was found to be acceptable, there is still the probably bigger issue of different fundamental focuses of the OSes.
iPad/iOS came along to better fill a need that was being less adequately filled by Mac/macOS, which is the need for the general people to consume digital media and get basic and certain types of work done. I think Steve Jobs had great foresight here. And I think iOS and iPad has come further along with multitasking etc, to become a viable and even preferable method for even more types of work. But for a substantial remainder of work, like big multi-faceted custom projects, I don’t see Mac becoming irrelevant in the foreseeable future, simply because it is designed for such things, while iPad/iOS is designed for the other end of the spectrum. Combining, or trying to cover both ends of the spectrum would lead to much compromise. And while that may be a compromise some are willing to make, it seems too much of a compromise in Apple’s view.
To have different operating systems and not a true 2 in 1 in 2018 is truly a mess not in the interest of consumers having to buy two devices when only one is necessary. I have switched to Windows also as a matter of principle and will not support the strategy of having to own two devices.
I understand the desire for 2 in 1s—to save money and have only one device to manage. But the two things have to first make good sense to combine. MacOS focuses on flexibility, iOS focuses on simplicity/ease of use. How can one OS focus on two different polar opposite principles? And if you’re thinking it can just switch between the two OSes—keep in mind that for ideal optimization, hardware and software need to be designed for each other from the inside out (from chip to keyboard). One set of hardware can’t switch between two OSes that operate very differently, and still be extremely efficient and elegant—qualities which Apple is all about (though some may argue less so these days).
Microsoft is more flexible about their stance, hence their 2 in 1 products. But it’s been about 7 years since MS launched the Surface line. They’ve poured a lot into it in the years since, and at its peak the 2-in-1 has only ever been a mild success. To me this says that those who IRL love living with these compromises is a niche group. On the other hand, the high success of both Macs and iPads suggests that Apple has made the better choice all around.
The money aspect is certainly valid, but just from a user perspective, I much prefer having a touch-dedicated OS and find the experience of iOS much more pleasant than Windows 10 on hybrids. I used to own a Cintiq Companion 2 which was both a laptop and a tablet, and I never used it as a tablet because from OS to 90% of apps, things just weren’t optimized for tablet usage. I also like how Mac does laptop things - from big trackpads to macOS itself which I vastly prefer to Windows for many reasons.
So, without taking money into account, in a choice between a good Windows hybrid like Surface Pro or Surface Book and a MacBook + iPad combination, I went Apple.