I agree that Apple should offer a choice of levels of service. Taking the computer in is simply not a reasonable option if you're using it to earn your crust.Sesshi said:
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I'm done with Apple...
- Thread starter vv-tim
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Sesshi said:
What the F is your problem? I didn't bash Dell and say that I was done with them. I simply pointed out that in at least this particular case, Dell was no better than anyone else.
FYI, the ONLY Apple product that I own is my iPod. I have three Dells in my house and an E-machines laptop. I want to get an iMac, but I hardly think that makes me a Fanboy. To the contrary, you could easily be called a Dell fanboy, but that would just be childish now wouldn't it?
It seems to me that some people like to come in to an Apple related community and Troll for whatever reaction they can get. What's the matter, the game is no longer fair when someone without a biased opinion states a counter opinion (backed up with facts)?
You are way out of line on this one.
aristobrat said:
BINGO. You are correct, I was speaking in regards to a home situation.
Now if they want me to start on about the 10 laptops that my office bought a few years ago, I could. Here's a hint. 3 identical failures which required motherboard replacement. 3 out of 10 is a 33% failure rate. I don't know about you, but that is unexceptable. But you know what? We just bought 8 new Dell D610's that arrived last week. Fingers are crossed that we don't have a repeat of that sort again.
skunk said:Not to be too picky, but it's 30%.
You are correct, but I was on a rant. hehehe
Those laptops were a real thorn in my side, so they still get me worked up.
appleretailguy said:
I do realise I'm a bit of a fool for even trying to be even handed given my truly like-for-like experience on a board like this. But you can't blame a guy for trying... ?
According to our Dell Enteprise sales rep, regardless of what level "home user" service you have, your calls are routed to entirely different call centers than medium & large business/gov't, business and healthcare. The different call centers each have different goals for hold time, when they're allowed to transfer you to a specialist, how far they'll deviate from their scripts if you're a technical user, etc.Sesshi said:
While the SLA may be the same (next day on site service is next day on site service), what you have to go through to arrange it as a home user isn't the same as the big guys.
I say this as a US-based enterprised-sized IT shop employee that's owned several personal Dells over the years.
Just for clarification, the one time I've used AppleCare was for a replacement DVD-ROM drive on my old iMac G3 in 2000. An engineer visited within 48 hours of me booking the call and replaced the faulty drive in my home.
Do I take it this no longer happens?
Do I take it this no longer happens?
Oh for sure aristobrat. I get to speak to Irish guys (with equally impenetrable accents, but we'll leave it at that) instead of Indians when making a support call on my Precisions.
The service level is however the same. Granted, the Inspiron / Dimension support treats you more of an idiot than the Latitude / Precision. But if you go through their troubleshooting routines then the service level is met. I also have the option of calling US support out of UK hours for telephone-based troubleshooting because I have extended support.
It's never happened for me. It's always been a pickup and return. In a couple of cases they've had the temerity to ask for my credit card number before they'll send a spare part - so @#&*%$£ late that I actually bought spares myself from Cancom. I had the standard additional 3 year warranty on an Inspiron. When the PSU on that failed, they sent a replacement the next day - no further information required.
The service level is however the same. Granted, the Inspiron / Dimension support treats you more of an idiot than the Latitude / Precision. But if you go through their troubleshooting routines then the service level is met. I also have the option of calling US support out of UK hours for telephone-based troubleshooting because I have extended support.
dynamicv said:
It's never happened for me. It's always been a pickup and return. In a couple of cases they've had the temerity to ask for my credit card number before they'll send a spare part - so @#&*%$£ late that I actually bought spares myself from Cancom. I had the standard additional 3 year warranty on an Inspiron. When the PSU on that failed, they sent a replacement the next day - no further information required.
Technically, onsite service is listed in the AppleCare terms as an option for some desktop machines if you are within 50 miles of one of their onsite repair locations, but Apple is the one who decides how your problem gets addressed. You might be able to talk them into onsite repair if you have extenuating circumstances, but they're going to do everything they can to have you use a cheaper option for them.
It is quite an arrogance with just a few cases of customer support under your belt to assume that you've seen everything either company has to offer. We purchased two desktops from Dell, both of which had harddisk failures. Our in house support did not show up for a week for one of those and that was our institutional support. 100% failure rate, awful customer support and no apologies, either.
Of course, everybody in those surveys who rate Apple higher than Dell are of course gullible foolish consumers. All of those surveys and rankings of quality are worthless as well. Pffft!...
Of course, everybody in those surveys who rate Apple higher than Dell are of course gullible foolish consumers. All of those surveys and rankings of quality are worthless as well. Pffft!...
theBB said:
Pot. Kettle. Black.
You've got me really steamed on this one guys by the sheer ignorance. I don't think I'm going to let this one go until the mods wade in.
In which case, they've gone rather downhill on the support front. Mind you, if the build quality has dropped, the old Applecare service would see them eating into that $11 milliard dollars rather quickly.Sesshi said:
Still, I remember being really impressed. Not good.
Or maybe those surveys are unfairly skewed in Apple's favour by people like me who rate according to what AppleCare used to be, not what it is now. We'll see in a few years. If Sesshi is right, Apple's rating will begin to tank soon enough.theBB said:
dynamicv said:
Apart from a really troublesome Duo I had (on which one could argue it kept going wrong because the service messed it up all the time), I can't remember ONE of my main Macs going wrong until the time I stopped using them in the mid-90's due to professional requirements.
Back then as ever, I had the machines fully aftercare'd but as far as I was concerned, it was for that almost unthinkable moment when the machines went wrong.
I come back, buy a brace of machines and I'm treated to engineering quality and service level that makes a third-rate Windoze builder look good.
dynamicv said:
Never underestimate the power of superior design (as opposed to engineering and service). You're seeing the effects of it right here already.
Sesshi said:
Except that the poster made a good point, in that you are comparing personal anecdotes impressions with published, widely accepted survey results. And the results were not about the quality of apple products. The results were *specifically* about CUSTOMER SERVICE?
So you think you know better than these survey results? You think you know better than the entire companies that are devoted to this type of research? You think you know better than the publication that publish this research?
So please, since you're committed to not putting this issue to rest, then answer me this:
Why should *anyone's* personal experiences refute a survey after survey after survey after survey, of thousands upon thousands of consumers, repeated year after year after year?
lmalave said:
Yes, but do the surveys distinguish between people who purchase a Mac with Applecare and someone who buys a bare-bones Dell with no support?
lukewarm
It took me nearly 6 months to get satisfaction from apple with a defective powerbook.
I'm hoping the one I have now keeps ticking along. I just got a new battery on the recall.
The odds of getting a crappy machine out of the box seem inordinately high.
Once you have a good one they're great.
But the possible prospect of having to deal with apple service again keeps me from buying anything new. That and they aren't making anything that really compares to the 12" power book. The new MBP and the Macbooks are too big for my taste.
The new small sony viao sure is attractive.
I think apple dropped the ball not making a macbook that is more compact than the 12" ibook.
It took me nearly 6 months to get satisfaction from apple with a defective powerbook.
I'm hoping the one I have now keeps ticking along. I just got a new battery on the recall.
The odds of getting a crappy machine out of the box seem inordinately high.
Once you have a good one they're great.
But the possible prospect of having to deal with apple service again keeps me from buying anything new. That and they aren't making anything that really compares to the 12" power book. The new MBP and the Macbooks are too big for my taste.
The new small sony viao sure is attractive.
I think apple dropped the ball not making a macbook that is more compact than the 12" ibook.
dynamicv said:
I somehow doubt this. The companies doing this consumer research are staking their professional reputations and entire value proposition on their accuracy. I'm sure they formulated their questions to be quite accurate, like only asking about the customer service / support experience *for a product purchased within the last year*.
Along those same lines, I saw a survey recently that said something like only 30% of Macs had to go in for repair within the first 2 years. Which sounds high but was the *lowest* in the industry. In fact, a tech analyst made a comment along the lines that it was "shockingly low". So not only do surveys show a better experience with customer support, but they show fewer reasons to even ask for customer support.
Because a lot of Mac users frequently just give Apple the benefit of the doubt. Everybody's personal experiences should matter to Apple. I'm sure Bang and Olufsen view each and every customer as important. If Apple want to be the premium brand they market themselves as, they need to do the same.lmalave said:
Sesshi said:
I don't know, but how is this relevant in the grand scheme of things? You want to bring in what percentage of people buy which warranty now???? I really don't know what percentage of Dell consumer buyers buy the 3-year warranty vs. the default 1-year. But what does it matter? Maybe because Dell is trying to market itself as lowest-price, it doesn't push the buyer to buy the extended warranty, whereas Apple, more concerned about its reputation as a premium brand, markets its AppleCare more aggressively. And which consumers are ultimately happier? Apple's. But don't take my word for it - look at *all* the various survey results.
And I will point out that I speak from the perspective of someone who's owned both Dells and Apples. I am careless with my material belongings and really put my machines through a lot of abuse. I also don't bother to buy the AppleCare. And I feel a lot more confident in Apple's customer service than Dell's (at least while my iBook was still under warranty). And having a physical location that you can take you Mac to is a huge advantage.
Let me give you a specific example: On *both* my Inspiron and my iBook, I yanked on the power cord so many times that it became frayed and had exposed wire (this was in the pre-MagSafe days). With the iBook, i took it to the Genius Bar and showed them the power cord. They asked me "how did this happen?" and I mumbled something like "uh, I dunno, I just noticed it", even though I knew it was totally my fault. The Genius went to the back and got me a new cord, no questions asked (other than a small form I had to fill out). Now what would Dell do in this situation? Well, I'm actually not sure, since I didn't want the aggravation of having to call Dell for something which was clearly not a mechanical defect. I probably could have, after being on hold and then having to justify it at length, gotten Dell to ship me a new power cord, and then I would just ship them back the "defective" power cord. But the point is, the Apple process was easier and I was a more satisfied customer.
So totally useless anecdote, haha!!!! Just proving my point that you can't go by anecdotes. It depends too much on the specific problem and the vagaries of random chance. For example in my case 1) my problem was just a simple part replacement, and 2) I live freaking *walking* distance from the NYC SoHo Apple Store.
So the point is - trust the surveys. And yes, trust the surveys that cover *all* the warranties that the user could possibly buy. You can *always* pay more to get better service. If even ProCare is not good enough, you can always hire a 3rd party service. Granted I live in NYC where there are lots of options but I have to believe most cities/towns have at least one company that does on-site Mac servicing.