Resolved I'm outraged! Amazon banned me forever because of too many returns

[Chappers]

He has screenshots of most of the screens of the notebooks that he returned, so I don't think he's trolling to hurt Apple, ... I think he's just upset at Amazon for suddenly turning off his acct.

I agree - he's no troll - seen the photos. His complaint does seem to be against amazon - it just happens to be MBP's that he's returned although I wish he had continued here to explain - I'm sure he would have received some help.

Although I still can't believe that these days people don't keep receipts.

Its naive at best.

 

[aristobrat]

although I wish he had continued here to explain - I'm sure he would have received some help.

FWIW, he did a little more explaining recently in the middle of this thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/558172/

 

[Unspeaked]

I love how this thread keeps going even though the OP hasn't posted since the 2nd page.

I guess I don't blame him for avoiding it after the majority of responses he got, but I find it very amusing...

 

[madoka]

I guess I don't blame him for avoiding it after the majority of responses he got, but I find it very amusing...

Dude was found to have returned some $12,000-$14,000 worth of MBPs in the past 2 years. I'd be too embarrassed to return as well if I made that big a stink about how unfair Amazon was.

 

[webworm98]

Yes, I know this is an old post, I came across searching google for Amazon ban. I just though I would add some points.

Why buy from Amazon in the first place? Why not just purchase directly from Apple. Seems you have cash to burn.

I haven't read anywhere where it states how many laptops you bought and returned btw.

Not necessarily apple, but a lot of companies use Amazon payments and people cant buy their products

Dude was found to have returned some $12,000-$14,000 worth of MBPs in the past 2 years. I'd be too embarrassed to return as well if I made that big a stink about how unfair Amazon was.

Maybe for the original poster. However, some got banned for 3 returns no matter how much they purchased. Some got banned for no reason.

What would be interesting to know if people that have ban accounts if they can still use Amazon Canada or Amazon Uk

If you get banned I would contact the bbb. You could write Amazon and tell them you wont return any more items, they may reopen your account for buying only.

 

[bruinsrme]

If this helps any, ...

https://forums.macrumors.com/search/?do=finduser&u=62022&starteronly=1

It must be a love hate relationship
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/332768/

 

[shokunin]

Reviving this thread

Wow.. amazon just shut-down my account. Oddly enough 2 days I ago I initiated a return on a pneumatic nailer worth $149. This is probably my third return in 8 years. Yes 8 years, I've bought 2 Mac Pro's (2006 & 2008), 2 Mini's (G4 PPC, Intel C2D), 1 Imac (2008 C2D), and 1 white Macbook (1st Intel CoreDuo), and NEVER needed to return any Apple product.

I've also bought a few grand worth of Canon Lenses and other equipment and yet they shut me down for no reason. What's wierd is that in the last 60 days alone, I've ordered over 50 items over $2K worth of merchandise and now my account is gone.

I can't even print out receipts for warranty purposes. Total value of all returns is less than $1000 out of $20K over those 8 years or so.

So calling the CSR is no help so far. If they don't want me as a customer, fine, but I have $700 in gift certificates in my account that I can no longer access... argh!

 

[webworm98]

Wow.. amazon just shut-down my account. Oddly enough 2 days I ago I initiated a return on a pneumatic nailer worth $149. This is probably my third return in 8 years. Yes 8 years, I've bought 2 Mac Pro's (2006 & 2008), 2 Mini's (G4 PPC, Intel C2D), 1 Imac (2008 C2D), and 1 white Macbook (1st Intel CoreDuo), and NEVER needed to return any Apple product.

I've also bought a few grand worth of Canon Lenses and other equipment and yet they shut me down for no reason. What's wierd is that in the last 60 days alone, I've ordered over 50 items over $2K worth of merchandise and now my account is gone.

I can't even print out receipts for warranty purposes. Total value of all returns is less than $1000 out of $20K over those 8 years or so.

So calling the CSR is no help so far. If they don't want me as a customer, fine, but I have $700 in gift certificates in my account that I can no longer access... argh!

If you have returned an item and paid with a credit card or a debit card with a Mastercard/Visa symbol. You can file a dispute with you bank.

Contact the BBB about the $700 gift certificates. Amazon has to allow you to use the $700 gift certificates. I would also contact the Attorney General in the state where Amazon is located.

Before you do the complaints, see if you can log-in to the Amazon Canada or Amazon UK and order using the $700 gift certificates. You would use the same account log-in.

 

[aristobrat]

So calling the CSR is no help so far. If they don't want me as a customer, fine

Do they give no reason for closing your account?!

 

[Ttownbeast]

If they owe you no money the matter is simple and has been around for thousands of years practiced by all shopkeepers. It's a concept called "the right to refuse service." It was this thing businesses used to post under the open sign telling customers that. Amazon apparently decided not to do anymore business with you so live with it.

 

[webworm98]

If they owe you no money the matter is simple and has been around for thousands of years practiced by all shopkeepers. It's a concept called "the right to refuse service." It was this thing businesses used to post under the open sign telling customers that. Amazon apparently decided not to do anymore business with you so live with it.

Amazon should warn you when you first open your account. Two many returns to Amazon, we will close your account. They do warn you when you open a seller's account.

They do owe him/her money. He has a lot of credits or gift certificates, that why I told him to use Amazon Canada.

What Amazon should do, is when you run out of your return limit, refuse returns instead of closing a persons account. You have to get your return approved anyway, so can't Amazon say no?

After this incident, I will make sure not to get anything that is two expensive from there.

the right to refuse service.

Sort of as long it is not discrimination. If it is a public place, no they can not refuse service. Like a public library at least without a court order. In most states (maybe all) the business must display the sign at the door. Amazon does not have it on thier home page.

 

[JML42691]

...In most states (maybe all) the business must display the sign at the door. Amazon does not have it on thier home page.

But I'm sure when you signed up for amazon.com (although I don't use amazon, so I'm not 100% sure), you agreed to some Terms and Conditions or something like that that was probably 20,000 words long that nobody ever reads but always checks off the box claiming that they did. I'm sure somewhere in those 20,000 words there was some clause that states that they can refuse service, somewhere...

 

[wywern209]

wow.. OP that sucks. maybe you should write an email to amazon's public relations or whatever that is higher up that handles this sort of stuff and explain that there were SERIOUS issues with the items that you ordered. Hmm.. i should prob tell my 'rents about this banning thing. esp my dad who does a lot of photography and frequents amazon.

 

[Ttownbeast]

Amazon should warn you when you first open your account. Two many returns to Amazon, we will close your account. They do warn you when you open a seller's account.

They do owe him/her money. He has a lot of credits or gift certificates, that why I told him to use Amazon Canada.

What Amazon should do, is when you run out of your return limit, refuse returns instead of closing a persons account. You have to get your return approved anyway, so can't Amazon say no?

After this incident, I will make sure not to get anything that is two expensive from there.

the right to refuse service.

Sort of as long it is not discrimination. If it is a public place, no they can not refuse service. Like a public library at least without a court order. In most states (maybe all) the business must display the sign at the door. Amazon does not have it on thier home page.

There might be some fine print stating when such things as credits and gift certs are redeemable. even a brick and mortar store sets policies stating how long a rain check is useable for and 700 bucks in credit and gift certs doesn't sound like something that would keep forever.

 

[webworm98]

There might be some fine print stating when such things as credits and gift certs are redeemable. even a brick and mortar store sets policies stating how long a rain check is useable for and 700 bucks in credit and gift certs doesn't sound like something that would keep forever.

Yes, but that has changed with the new law that was passed by the U.S. congress any gift certificates or gift card without a credit card logo must remain valid for 5 years from the date of issue. Michigan state law may include the gift cards with the credit card logos but I am not sure. Michigan has the 5 years expiration date as well.

So, another words, Amazon needs to reopen his account until the $700 are gone or the 5 years are up, whichever comes 1st and not allow him to return any items he purchases. Tip if they do reopen his account. He shouldn't purchase anything directly from Amazon, he should buy from other seller. Most items I bought from Amazon sellers are decent.

 

[Mr Skills]

What Amazon should do, is when you run out of your return limit, refuse returns instead of closing a persons account. You have to get your return approved anyway, so can't Amazon say no?

I don't live in the US, but I assume it must be against the law for them to refuse a return if the item is demonstrably defective. If not, I'd be shocked.

 

[Ttownbeast]

Yes, but that has changed with the new law that was passed by the U.S. congress any gift certificates or gift card without a credit card logo must remain valid for 5 years from the date of issue. Michigan state law may include the gift cards with the credit card logos but I am not sure. Michigan has the 5 years expiration date as well.

So, another words, Amazon needs to reopen his account until the $700 are gone or the 5 years are up, whichever comes 1st and not allow him to return any items he purchases. Tip if they do reopen his account. He shouldn't purchase anything directly from Amazon, he should buy from other seller. Most items I bought from Amazon sellers are decent.

2 problems there--maybe Michigan's law states that, but a company that operates globally may not be specifically subject to a single states laws and just because Michigan says five years international policies on commerce may differ if Amazon were based out of Michigan then maybe. Second there is the Ex Post Facto rule constitutionally which does not guarantee that just because our OP here has accumulated 700 bucks worth of expired unused credit since a law was passed by congress "after the fact" 700 dollars is a lot of credit to earn over time.

I'd be fairly certain it wasn't earned all at once I've been using Amazon myself now for 4 years and barely used 100 bucks worth of their promotional services accumulated over that time.

I think the OP in this case is more pissed that he couldn't bully Amazon into redeeming the outdated credits and probably got his account suspended in the process bothering them about this. And since it wasn't money out of his pocket but perks amazon offered for a limited period he lost nothing. It's kind of like going to Vegas--you get comps for being a good customer but that doesn't extend the rights to be an ******* because they can still kick you out of the hotel for being unruly comps or not. I don't think the OP gave the whole story and came here to rant just to justify his own POV and garner some consumer sympathy.

 

[webworm98]

2 problems there--maybe Michigan's law states that, but a company that operates globally may not be specifically subject to a single states laws and just because Michigan says five years international policies on commerce may differ if Amazon were based out of Michigan then maybe. Second there is the Ex Post Facto rule constitutionally which does not guarantee that just because our OP here has accumulated 700 bucks worth of expired unused credit since a law was passed by congress "after the fact" 700 dollars is a lot of credit to earn over time.

I'd be fairly certain it wasn't earned all at once I've been using Amazon myself now for 4 years and barely used 100 bucks worth of their promotional services accumulated over that time.

I think the OP in this case is more pissed that he couldn't bully Amazon into redeeming the outdated credits and probably got his account suspended in the process bothering them about this. And since it wasn't money out of his pocket but perks amazon offered for a limited period he lost nothing. It's kind of like going to Vegas--you get comps for being a good customer but that doesn't extend the rights to be an ******* because they can still kick you out of the hotel for being unruly comps or not. I don't think the OP gave the whole story and came here to rant just to justify his own POV and garner some consumer sympathy.

Here the gift card laws
http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core_financial_services/003889.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_CARD_Act_of_2009

The Credit CARD Act of 2009 prohibits gift cards (store issued or bank issued “gift cards”) from expiring before 5 years from the date of purchase or when money was last loaded onto a card, and prohibits fees for the first 12 months. These consumer protections will go into effect next summer. Stronger state laws will remain valid.

That part is the U.S. Regulation/law. So, if funds were added to the Amazon gift card anytime after February 22, 2010 then he has 5 years to use it provided he is U.S. resident and used the Amazon website in the U.S.

Now if it is a Promotional credit and not considered a gift card, then amazon can cancel it at anytime.

If his state has stronger laws, Amazon must abide by them because they do business in that state.

 

[webworm98]

I don't live in the US, but I assume it must be against the law for them to refuse a return if the item is demonstrably defective. If not, I'd be shocked.

That's a misnomer except for an auto & home purchase.

Auto
6 month lemon law included as is.

House
Several years unless you tell it is sold "AS IS" and needs repair which you can't pay for.

Most states if not all require a sign to be displayed if you don't allow returns or returns for certain items. Wal-mart does not allow return of airbeds but will allow an exchange. There is a sign there.

The only other exception is fraud.

 

[Ttownbeast]

Here the gift card laws
http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core_financial_services/003889.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_CARD_Act_of_2009




That part is the U.S. Regulation/law. So, if funds were added to the Amazon gift card anytime after February 22, 2010 then he has 5 years to use it provided he is U.S. resident and used the Amazon website in the U.S.

Now if it is a Promotional credit and not considered a gift card, then amazon can cancel it at anytime.

If his state has stronger laws, Amazon must abide by them because they do business in that state.

Accumulation of 700 dollars in any sort of credit in a period of approximately 4 months doesn't sound very likely dealing with e-commerce, and just because Michigan says so doesn't mean that Amazon is forced to abide by your definition of "stronger laws" just because the state tells you its law is stronger does not necessarily mean that it is. Besides Amazon is contractually based not law based here's the link to one of the user agreements mentioned which when starting an Amazon account the customer must agree to:

https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdui/about?nodeId=6019

Here is the most interesting part:

1.1 Eligibility. To use the Service, you must (a) have an e-mail account, (b) create a payments account with us (a "Payment Account") by providing complete and accurate registration information, (c) for mobile payments, have an SMS-enabled mobile phone, and (d) if you are an individual, be at least 18 years old or, if you represent a business, be duly authorized to enter into this Agreement on behalf of the business. We treat all activities under a Payment Account to be those of the registered user. You must update registration information promptly upon any change. We reserve the right to refuse to provide or discontinue the Service to any person or entity at any time for any reason. If you are not a permanent U.S. resident or citizen or a business entity authorized to do business in the United States, you will have limited privileges (described below), and you should understand these limitations before registering for a Payment Account or accepting any payments from other users.

And last I checked courts rarely award the customer for negligence--when the customer agrees it is assumed that they read the policy and knowingly entered into the contract there is no way around this if you want to use the service.

 

[webworm98]

Accumulation of 700 dollars in any sort of credit in a period of approximately 4 months doesn't sound very likely dealing with e-commerce, and just because Michigan says so doesn't mean that Amazon is forced to abide by your definition of "stronger laws" just because the state tells you its law is stronger does not necessarily mean that it is. Besides Amazon is contractually based not law based here's the link to one of the user agreements mentioned which when starting an Amazon account the customer must agree to:

https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdui/about?nodeId=6019

Here is the most interesting part:


And last I checked courts rarely award the customer for negligence--when the customer agrees it is assumed that they read the policy and knowingly entered into the contract there is no way around this if you want to use the service.

We reserve the right to refuse to provide or discontinue the Service to any person or entity at any time for any reason

Yes, they can do that but they still would have to either refund him $700 or allow him to use those funds before they close his account provided it is an amazon gift card.

Laws in the U.S. supersede contracts or agreements. If you read a credit card contract. It says something like this

If any portion of this contract become invalid because of a law, the rest of it shall remain enforced.

As far enforcing a law from one state to another.
Indiana made a stronger telemarketing do not call list and it applies to both in-state and out of state telemarketers. The law was challenged by an out of state telemarketer, saying Federal don't call list trumps that law & that Indiana laws does not apply to out of state business. The Judge sided with the state. For one they are calling Indiana residents, so they are doing business with Indiana residents. So, yes a business does or is suppose to follow state laws even if they are located outside the state but a lot don't because no action is taken against them. Indiana has taken action against both in state & out of state telemarketers for violating the state's do not call list.



Now back to the $700 whatever it is.

I really never heard that someone would have $700 credit toward merchandise. When, I return something to a merchant, I usually exchange it or ask for a credit to my card. I would rarely take merchandise credit.

 

[Ttownbeast]

Yes, they can do that but they still would have to either refund him $700 or allow him to use those funds before they close his account provided it is an amazon gift card.

Laws in the U.S. supersede contracts or agreements. If you read a credit card contract. It says something like this



As far enforcing a law from one state to another.
Indiana made a stronger telemarketing do not call list and it applies to both in-state and out of state telemarketers. The law was challenged by an out of state telemarketer, saying Federal don't call list trumps that law & that Indiana laws does not apply to out of state business. The Judge sided with the state. For one they are calling Indiana residents, so they are doing business with Indiana residents. So, yes a business does or is suppose to follow state laws even if they are located outside the state but a lot don't because no action is taken against them. Indiana has taken action against both in state & out of state telemarketers for violating the state's do not call list.



Now back to the $700 whatever it is.

I really never heard that someone would have $700 credit toward merchandise. When, I return something to a merchant, I usually exchange it or ask for a credit to my card. I would rarely take merchandise credit.

Yes but we are not talking about a credit card contract here and just because a law is passed does not always mean that it nullifies a contract after the fact unless the parties in the contract have added such a clause. Businesses have rights to set policies through contracts despite government regulations as they see fit as long as it is not harmful. One such example is employment laws where workers can enter into a contract to make less than the minimum wage such is common in the food service industry where some food service workers make less than 4 dollars an hour even though federal minimum wage dictates a minimum of 5.25 in such an instance even though the law is supposedly "stronger" the contract between the parties is what sets the standard.

 

[webworm98]

Yes but we are not talking about a credit card contract here and just because a law is passed does not always mean that it nullifies a contract after the fact unless the parties in the contract have added such a clause. Businesses have rights to set policies through contracts despite government regulations as they see fit as long as it is not harmful. One such example is employment laws where workers can enter into a contract to make less than the minimum wage such is common in the food service industry where some food service workers make less than 4 dollars an hour even though federal minimum wage dictates a minimum of 5.25 in such an instance even though the law is supposedly "stronger" the contract between the parties is what sets the standard.

I didn't say it nullifies a contract, just the part that is against the law. The rest stays in effect.

On the U.S. Federal minimum wages you are partially correct.
Food service still must be paid minimum wage. The difference is if they get tips. No tips, they get the full $7.25 an hour if they only get $6.00 for one hour, then the business must give them $1.25 for that hour.

Note $7.25 is now the new Federal Minimum wages including full and part time workers, even if your hired for to work for a non-for-profit organization. Just ask an accountant.

 

[Ttownbeast]

I didn't say it nullifies a contract, just the part that is against the law. The rest stays in effect.

On the U.S. Federal minimum wages you are partially correct.
Food service still must be paid minimum wage. The difference is if they get tips. No tips, they get the full $7.25 an hour if they only get $6.00 for one hour, then the business must give them $1.25 for that hour.

Note $7.25 is now the new Federal Minimum wages including full and part time workers, even if your hired for to work for a non-for-profit organization. Just ask an accountant.

Not when you sign a contract which many food service workers do, if you sign that contract you are basically signing a waiver relinquishing the rights to pay by federal standards which is what holds up in court. The minimum wage law protects workers who have not waived that universal right to a fair wage or do not have some sort of collective bargaining in place as an assurance.

My bad on the 5.25 though I hit the wrong key.

 

[DesignerOnMac]

You seem to like to comment on things you know little about. In fact, I cannot use my rewards because they are in my account at amazon. There is no way to access them or use them, or gift them to anybody. When I get my certificates, I always put them into my amazon account so that they will be readily available when I make purchases. Once I've done that, the paper certificates are used so I just throw them away.

Secondly, we live in a digital age. Amazon offers a wonderful purchase history/archive service where it is easy to search and locate by date/year, print out and otherwise find old records. Keeping paper receipts for tons of books, electronics and what not doesn't make any sense. I've never ever been banned from a store before and naturally couldn't have predicted that I would banned WITHOUT THE OPPORTUNITY TO USE MY CREDIT AND ACCESS MY RECORDS. I don't think that is short-sighted at all. I do have some emails and old receipts, but only some of them.

Boy, people are cynical here. I frequently upgrade my and my girlfriend's computers (sell the old ones on craigslist) and over the past few years I've also bought computers for my parents, a few of their friends and few of my own friends - I've put it on my credit card for their convenience since I was helping them switch to macs and they gave me free hands to get a system for them. I'm an academic and photographer, not some kind of sketchy reseller that uses amazon to make money.

Anyway, all I wanted was:

1. A fair warning after years of being a loyal and very frequent customer.
2. Access to the records I stored in good faith on their site, i.e. receipts.
3. Access to the credit I EARNED through my credit card that Amazon has simply stolen from me.
4. Not being treated like a criminal.

It may be that Amazon hasn't made money off me for the past two years (which I doubt), but that's an extremely short-term perspective. If this hadn't happened, I would have ordered a $1300 lens this week and I would have continued buying things regularly from them, most of which I would not return. In the long run, they would have made tons of money off me, not to mention off all the friends I would continue to recommend amazon too. Many of my friends have started buying all their expensive electronic purchases from amazon and I would have continued to promote amazon.

Anyway, you guys believe what you want and if you think Amazon is handling this in a good way, so be it. I don't agree and could never agree with that. No matter what the outcome is, I will never purchase another item from Amazon and I will cancel my Amazon credit card too.

While I agree with what you wanted, I am a little surprised that you do not print your invoices...either for warranty needs, or for business needs, if your computers are for a business. I would never rely on someone else keeping this info for me. As mentioned, contact CC company for purchase info, and I hope you get them.