iMac 2020 what to expect?

[Wolf1701]

1. Apple has improved the GPUs (you can now get Vega 20/48 with the 2019 models).
2. Most, if not all, screens at 32" are 4K which would be a downgrade. If they go 6K with the XDR's resolution, any external monitor you use would resize your windows due to resolution mismatch. The only real option is an 8K 32" display, but those are still very expensive.
3. Thermal improvement would require a new systemboard and would also likely mean the end of user-replaceable RAM (as the most obvious option is to use the iMac Pro's fan design).
4. FaceID requires a case redesign as the current case is too thin at the top to allow for the FaceID module (it is also why the iMac still has a rather weak webcam).
5. T2 is probably coming, but I am guessing there is a reason Apple has yet to add it to the iMac when it is on everything else (including the iMac Pro).

we are also are used to think 'inside' the box... vega is old tech, screens... yes and no: 27" retina was untinkable before iMac late 2014, yes the thermal improvement could require a new design (also time) and maybe so the FaceID, T2 (or newer) seems to be the way apple has chosen to improve what intel could not... I suppose fusion drives should go to make T2 happen in iMac.

my point is: the cpu is not the only possible upgrade... and not necessarily the one who brings more advantages to the end user.

 

[dapa0s]

1. T2 is probably coming, but I am guessing there is a reason Apple has yet to add it to the iMac when it is on everything else (including the iMac Pro).

I'm guessing that they didn't add the T2 to the iMac because it would then be too similar to the iMac Pro and compete even more with it.

 

[CWallace]

Vega is "old tech", but Navi did not ship (at least in volume) until recently and Apple is adding Navi into the Mac line (the 16" MBP has it now and the Mac Pro should have it shortly). So we should see a Navi option with the 2020 update.

I think Apple can work around the "T2 is SSD only" issue by requiring the boot macOS installation to be on the SSD so the T2 can do it's thing. What I would prefer to see, frankly, is 256GB/512GB SSDs becoming the default storage configuration for the iMac and then offer larger HDD options as BTO "secondary storage" that would be configured as a Fusion Drive.
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I'm guessing that they didn't add the T2 to the iMac because it would then be too similar to the iMac Pro and compete even more with it.

The iMac Pro's selling points are Xeon CPUs, ECC RAM, more external expansion (4xTB3/USB-C) and the higher-end GPUs.

The T-series primary purpose is security and Apple wants that on everything so "competitive reasons" would not apply. The most-likely reason it is not yet on the iMac is that the T-series chips require an SSD and iMacs still have spinners in the lower configurations (either as the only drive or as part of a Fusion drive).

 

[_Skyfire_]

1. Apple has improved the GPUs (you can now get Vega 20/48 with the 2019 models).
2. Most, if not all, screens at 32" are 4K which would be a downgrade. If they go 6K with the XDR's resolution, any external monitor you use would resize your windows due to resolution mismatch. The only real option is an 8K 32" display, but those are still very expensive.
3. Thermal improvement would require a new systemboard and would also likely mean the end of user-replaceable RAM (as the most obvious option is to use the iMac Pro's fan design).
4. FaceID requires a case redesign as the current case is too thin at the top to allow for the FaceID module (it is also why the iMac still has a rather weak webcam).
5. T2 is probably coming, but I am guessing there is a reason Apple has yet to add it to the iMac when it is on everything else (including the iMac Pro).

While Vega 48 was technically an improvement, it's already 2.5 years old. When people call for an upgraded GPU they usually refer to something from the last 12 months


Edit: just now saw your later post, there really should be a delete option..

 

[Glockworkorange]

I'm guessing that they didn't add the T2 to the iMac because it would then be too similar to the iMac Pro and compete even more with it.

They didn't add it because they still sell iMacs with spinners and fusion drives---T2 and APFS perhaps don't perform well on spinners (no drive with spinning components have APFS).

Next refresh I think we'll see the end of fusion drives and pure SSD's for the 27 inch.

New thermal system too, like the iMac Pro.

I also think the iMac Pro is as dead as disco---it was a stopgap machine.

I don't think it will move to 6K---they'd have to make the screen 32 inches---I think doing that would be cost prohibitive (although I would buy one!).

 

[sublunar]

I think they'll keep selling the old models for a while. No new models with HDDs.

Vega is "old tech", but Navi did not ship (at least in volume) until recently and Apple is adding Navi into the Mac line (the 16" MBP has it now and the Mac Pro should have it shortly). So we should see a Navi option with the 2020 update.

I think Apple can work around the "T2 is SSD only" issue by requiring the boot macOS installation to be on the SSD so the T2 can do it's thing. What I would prefer to see, frankly, is 256GB/512GB SSDs becoming the default storage configuration for the iMac and then offer larger HDD options as BTO "secondary storage" that would be configured as a Fusion Drive.

Seems too complicated and lacking in space. I think people are more inclined to simply add external storage on the USB ports - especially easy if they go for a portable option which doesn't require external power. It would also arguably reduce repair costs as Apple would have got rid of hard drives that could fail from the supply chain.

The iMac Pro's selling points are Xeon CPUs, ECC RAM, more external expansion (4xTB3/USB-C) and the higher-end GPUs.

The T-series primary purpose is security and Apple wants that on everything so "competitive reasons" would not apply. The most-likely reason it is not yet on the iMac is that the T-series chips require an SSD and iMacs still have spinners in the lower configurations (either as the only drive or as part of a Fusion drive).

Perhaps Apple have decided to debut the T3 on the iMac (and other Macs) this year?

The interesting feature that Apple are utilising is T1/T2 as a Quicksync replacement/supplement - perhaps using it for Airplay 2 streaming to AppleTV on systems which don't have Quicksync (ie the Xeon ones). Yes, some systems will use the a T2 to help with simple exports to h.265 as well.

Apple could actually refresh the iMac Pro and produce a lower starting SKU with AMD 5300 (AMD 5500 and 5700 options), 16Gb RAM and 512Gb SSD (RAID) which would serve to replace the top SKUs of the standard iMac 27".

Replacing the lower tier iMac 27" SKUs altogether (and the upper 21.5" iMac SKUs) could be a 24" 4k iMac (120Hz refresh would be a nice and unique too). If they go all SSD they could label that a 'Pro' product too and use the same hardware and go with 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports.

And of course Apple could keep selling the 21.5" iMac for the entry level and that would also keep the Mac mini supplied with parts too if they left that unchanged - maybe bump it to Fusion drives all round. To keep up the semblance of life the Mini would get storage doubled for no extra cost which I believe would keep it going for a couple of years. This would especially be the case if Apple decide that no refresh was worth doing on either the Mini or remaining iMac 2019 SKUs which they'd keep around.

 

[dapa0s]

I'm honestly pissed that Apple is not saying anything about the iMac, and we have to do constant guesswork.

A lot of good stuff in this thread, but oh well, I guess we'll see when it comes out eventually. Hopefully, they don't just add new CPUs this year, and maybe try to do something new/creative, or at least improve the cooling on the regular iMac or make it more user-friendly. I would like to be able to maybe dust it out once in a while, without having to take it to the Apple store lol.

 

[ridgero]

I'm honestly pissed that Apple is not saying anything about the iMac, and we have to do constant guesswork.

A lot of good stuff in this thread, but oh well, I guess we'll see when it comes out eventually. Hopefully, they don't just add new CPUs this year, and maybe try to do something new/creative, or at least improve the cooling on the regular iMac or make it more user-friendly. I would like to be able to maybe dust it out once in a while, without having to take it to the Apple store lol.

There is a reason why this forum/site is called MacRumors

They don‘t talk about upcoming products (besides the Mac Pro) before the actual announcement.

I hope for an iMac 32“ with the Pro cooling system. I would buy it immediately.

 

[sublunar]

I'm honestly pissed that Apple is not saying anything about the iMac, and we have to do constant guesswork.

A lot of good stuff in this thread, but oh well, I guess we'll see when it comes out eventually. Hopefully, they don't just add new CPUs this year, and maybe try to do something new/creative, or at least improve the cooling on the regular iMac or make it more user-friendly. I would like to be able to maybe dust it out once in a while, without having to take it to the Apple store lol.

It's for the best that they don't need to say anything - remember the Osborne effect? The Mac Pro meeting from 2017 was clearly there to stop professionals from abandoning Mac Pro forever given that it took almost 3 years for the replacement to the 2013 Mac Pro.

The iMac isn't probably as predictable as iPhones on their annual refresh cycle because of the steep competition provided by Samsung, LG etc.

But it's not in as much of a thermal hole that the Mac Pro was. There is still a thermal hole to address though as suitable CPUs from Intel at upper SKUs seem to require more cooling with TDPs going well north of 100w.

Intel appear to be gearing up for some price cuts in the second half of the year thanks to competition from AMD and obviously Apple could very well have some discounted CPUs (whichever they choose) coming up for delivery by, say October.

If we agree on a change in cooling to future iMacs then we are looking at a move to the iMac Pro cooling scheme or something improved over that.

There's enough of a history of iMac refreshes to enable educated guesses but with the iMac likely switching to a 18-24 month cycle Apple could be aiming to use Comet Lake S CPUs between Q4'20 and Q1'21.

 

[Wolf1701]

Apple invents an AIO Desktop Computer made from Glass that incorporates the Keyboard, Dual Trackpads & more

Today the US Patent & Trademark Office published a patent application from Apple that relates to a next generation all-in-one (AIO) desktop iMac that is made with a continuous glass body. The design is shown to have a number of twists with alternative ideas including ...

www.patentlyapple.com

all glass iMac?

 

[sublunar]

Apple invents an AIO Desktop Computer made from Glass that incorporates the Keyboard, Dual Trackpads & more

Today the US Patent & Trademark Office published a patent application from Apple that relates to a next generation all-in-one (AIO) desktop iMac that is made with a continuous glass body. The design is shown to have a number of twists with alternative ideas including ...

www.patentlyapple.com

all glass iMac?

How many of these things become a reality though? There's been patents involving an iPad like device that slips into an iMac like frame that I recall.

That link shows something that is ergonomically uncomfortable looking too as the screen is too low if directly connected to the screen like that.

Mind you, bad ergonomics never stopped the various Apple mice over the years.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Perhaps the question we should ask ourselves is, will this be the year Apple finally moves to a new chassis for the iMac and iMac Pro? Be objective and honest...which is hard to when we with it against our wants and desires.

I think they will because the TDP for the 10th Gen “Comet Lake” CPUs is going up to 125w and the Xeon W-22xx Series starts at 155w, along with support for higher frequency DRAM (2933MHz). Couple this with updated GPUs that may or may not draw more power depending on what ships and Apple’s new Industrial Design direction for the Pro Display XDR, the age of the current iMac chassis (7-9 years, depending on when you start counting) and this is really that moment when I think Apple know that it must update from aesthetic and technology standpoints. Admittedly, Tim Cook and Apple’s hardware engineers can probably wring one more iteration out of the current iMac chassis, but I think that MarCom and internal teams may finally be saying “enough is enough”. The ID for the Mac Pro will/needs to start migrating down the product stack and I see the Design teams pushing this hard to make their mark in a post Jony Ive Apple. I guess we’ll find out soon enough...or not.

 

[sublunar]

Perhaps the question we should ask ourselves is, will this be the year Apple finally moves to a new chassis for the iMac and iMac Pro? Be objective and honest...which is hard to when we with it against our wants and desires.

I think they will because the TDP for the 10th Gen “Comet Lake” CPUs is going up to 125w and the Xeon W-22xx Series starts at 155w, along with support for higher frequency DRAM (2933MHz). Couple this with updated GPUs that may or may not draw more power depending on what ships and Apple’s new Industrial Design direction for the Pro Display XDR, the age of the current iMac chassis (7-9 years, depending on when you start counting) and this is really that moment when I think Apple know that it must update from aesthetic and technology standpoints. Admittedly, Tim Cook and Apple’s hardware engineers can probably wring one more iteration out of the current iMac chassis, but I think that MarCom and internal teams may finally be saying “enough is enough”. The ID for the Mac Pro will/needs to start migrating down the product stack and I see the Design teams pushing this hard to make their mark in a post Jony Ive Apple. I guess we’ll find out soon enough...or not.

The advent of Comet Lake S and its increased TDP to wring more performance out of high end SKUs seem like the right time to redesign the iMac.

I would say that the increased heat from Intel and AMD space heaters would be bad news for any display panels mounted on the back.

Apple has a habit of purchasing power reduced AMD GPUs to fit the required heat profiles and perhaps there could be some movement towards a return to mobile CPUs if they feel that engineering a cooling solution for ever-hotter desktop CPUs isn't worth doing.

Now that Apple can offer a 'power' solution in the Mac Pro (and iMac Pro if that line is to continue) perhaps the ordinary iMac can instead go for a thinner design without invoking the perforative sense that Jonathan Ive's design team has too much control over affairs.

It only makes sense that the design language filters down stream over time.

Lower TDP multi-core mobile CPU and GPU, PCIe SSD, and a look at the back of the ventilated ProXDR display may show the way ahead but the XDR lattice may be a costly design statement. If they decide the Mac mini was worth a redesign (more than just a storage bump) I'd like to see a 'Mac' that follows the Mac Pro design language within its budget sensibilities.

 

[askunk]

Now that Apple can offer a 'power' solution in the Mac Pro (and iMac Pro if that line is to continue) perhaps the ordinary iMac can instead go for a thinner design without invoking the perforative sense that Jonathan Ive's design team has too much control over affairs.

You might be right. Honestly, I think that once Apple has moved to desktop-grade components on the iMac, they wouldn't go back easily. It would be hard to sell at marketing level and besides: an iMac with a mobile GPU, along with a Comet Lake S CPU (about 8% average improvement, according to rumours) would offer little or no speed improvement.

 

[sublunar]

You might be right. Honestly, I think that once Apple has moved to desktop-grade components on the iMac, they wouldn't go back easily. It would be hard to sell at marketing level and besides: an iMac with a mobile GPU, along with a Comet Lake S CPU (about 8% average improvement, according to rumours) would offer little or no speed improvement.

Apple couldn't refresh the 21.5" and 27" standard iMac models with anything but a faster desktop Comet Lake S CPU later this year as a continuation of existing product lines.

But they could launch a 24" iMac as a completely new product line with one eye on the increasing heat issues at top SKUs for Comet Lake S and successive S CPUs thereafter.

My envisioning of a 24" product would see a thinner, lighter product - able to be VESA mounted on monitor arms - which is the start of a new line. 24" is a common luxury business size, 4k panels in that size are available that could

Apple use Intel's H-class mobile processors for the MacBook Pro but what if they just ordered more of the top SKUs from that range to power a thin and light 24" 120Hz 4k iMac?

Comet Lake H CPUs should have as many cores as the S range but trade higher clock speeds for lower TDP. It's pretty much Apple's strategy for keeping power draw and heat down on their GPUs.

So this 24" iMac could effectively be a desktop 16" MacBook Pro with the thermal and power budget to use a better class GPU to help run a larger screen at up to 120Hz. And what if Apple were using K series CPUs and allowed 'proper' overclocking with their 'Pro mode' at the expense of fan noise?

As I mention earlier in the thread, Apple can satisfy the people who need a desktop class CPU in an iMac by producing a more affordable entry SKU of the iMac Pro while potentially keeping the 2019 21.5" iMac around with perhaps a storage bump to satisfy the entry level.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Seems too complicated and lacking in space. I think people are more inclined to simply add external storage on the USB ports - especially easy if they go for a portable option which doesn't require external power. It would also arguably reduce repair costs as Apple would have got rid of hard drives that could fail from the supply chain.




Perhaps Apple have decided to debut the T3 on the iMac (and other Macs) this year?

The interesting feature that Apple are utilising is T1/T2 as a Quicksync replacement/supplement - perhaps using it for Airplay 2 streaming to AppleTV on systems which don't have Quicksync (ie the Xeon ones). Yes, some systems will use the a T2 to help with simple exports to h.265 as well.

Apple could actually refresh the iMac Pro and produce a lower starting SKU with AMD 5300 (AMD 5500 and 5700 options), 16Gb RAM and 512Gb SSD (RAID) which would serve to replace the top SKUs of the standard iMac 27".

Replacing the lower tier iMac 27" SKUs altogether (and the upper 21.5" iMac SKUs) could be a 24" 4k iMac (120Hz refresh would be a nice and unique too). If they go all SSD they could label that a 'Pro' product too and use the same hardware and go with 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports.

And of course Apple could keep selling the 21.5" iMac for the entry level and that would also keep the Mac mini supplied with parts too if they left that unchanged - maybe bump it to Fusion drives all round. To keep up the semblance of life the Mini would get storage doubled for no extra cost which I believe would keep it going for a couple of years. This would especially be the case if Apple decide that no refresh was worth doing on either the Mini or remaining iMac 2019 SKUs which they'd keep around.

I really don't think we're going to see an new iMac Pro. I think I'll start a poll.

 

[askunk]

light 24" 120Hz 4k iMac?

Do you understand the GPU power needed to hold 120Hz on a 4K? I wish it would be the case, but forget doing it with an H-class CPU and a mobile GPU in a thin design. Perhaps in 2025.

On a funnier note... here's the 2020 iMac

Apple invents an AIO Desktop Computer made from Glass that incorporates the Keyboard, Dual Trackpads & more

Today the US Patent & Trademark Office published a patent application from Apple that relates to a next generation all-in-one (AIO) desktop iMac that is made with a continuous glass body. The design is shown to have a number of twists with alternative ideas including ...

www.patentlyapple.com

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I think we will see a redesigned iMac with better cooling. It would be stupid not to improve the cooling once you touch the design, much less after all the know-how developed with the iMP and then the MP (and the XDR).

Apple is well known to keep selling low-cost Macs using the old generation. I am confident that the present models, at least the 21.5", will be sold at a discounted price. After all, it's always a good excuse for Apple to increase the base price of the new generation.

About the change in screen size. I give it a 90% chance. I agree they can very likely be 24" and 30/32". I really doubt we will see luminances beyond the 650 nits mark.

However, Apple reserves the best features for the biggest model. Therefore, I doubt we will see a "ProMotion" iMac this year or the next. The MP covers the high-end GPU role and it's far from holding 120Hz. Moreover, now that the high-end Mac line has 5K as standard and the MP on 6K, it becomes exponentially more difficult to reach those steady 120Hz than on 4K.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I really don't think we're going to see an new iMac Pro. I think I'll start a poll.

I respectfully disagree...I think the iMac Pro is an important bridge from the iMac to the Mac Pro...Apple needs to get on the stick and get it updated...a Space Grey 32” XDR-based iMac Pro would be a jaw dropper. I don’t expect the same level screen as the XDR Display, just the same resolution. I won’t needlessly rattle off any other specs, all know what they should be.

At some point, Apple is going to bring XDR tech down to the lower tiers. Maybe not in 6 months, but eventually.

One of us will be right...

 

[Icaras]

But they could launch a 24" iMac as a completely new product line with one eye on the increasing heat issues at top SKUs for Comet Lake S and successive S CPUs thereafter.

My envisioning of a 24" product would see a thinner, lighter product - able to be VESA mounted on monitor arms - which is the start of a new line. 24" is a common luxury business size, 4k panels in that size are available that could

I like it. They could call this the iMac Air.

 

[Glockworkorange]

I respectfully disagree...I think the iMac Pro is an important bridge from the iMac to the Mac Pro...Apple needs to get on the stick and get it updated...a Space Grey 32” XDR-based iMac Pro would be a jaw dropper. I don’t expect the same level screen as the XDR Display, just the same resolution. I won’t needlessly rattle off any other specs, all know what they should be.

At some point, Apple is going to bring XDR tech down to the lower tiers. Maybe not in 6 months, but eventually.

One of us will be right...

You might very well be right. The truth is either the iMac Pro or the Mac Pro are overkill for me.

I just find it odd it hasn't been updated in so long---perhaps because they were spending so much time readying the Mac Pro?

 

[CWallace]

I respectfully disagree...I think the iMac Pro is an important bridge from the iMac to the Mac Pro...Apple needs to get on the stick and get it updated...a Space Grey 32” XDR-based iMac Pro would be a jaw dropper. I don’t expect the same level screen as the XDR Display, just the same resolution.

I expect you cannot "decontent" an XDR display because all the panels are cut from larger sheets that are manufactured with all the bells and whistles already baked in. So it would be an iMac Pro with an XDR display which means the base price goes from $4999 to $9999.

On the plus side, the extra screen real-estate would be welcome because you'd never connect a second (or third) monitor because the non-standard resolution of the XDR display means that your windows will resize every time you move them on or off the main display.

 

[Icaras]

I'm guessing that they didn't add the T2 to the iMac because it would then be too similar to the iMac Pro and compete even more with it.

So why even give the MacBook Air a T2 chip? The Air and 13” Pro have a lot of overlap and very little price difference separating the two.

I fully expect the iMac to get a T2 and my guess is they’re simply waiting to do that on the redesign.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

I thought the T2 wasn't added because of the fusion drives (something about the T2 and the SSD controller).

 

[retta283]

I may have said this before, but I want the iMacs to slim down to levels of the Aluminum Cinema Displays, and get 16:10 displays at 24" and 30" sizes. I wish they'd bring back Front Row too, I always loved using that. With a 24"-30" display it could be nice.

 

[sublunar]

I thought the T2 wasn't added because of the fusion drives (something about the T2 and the SSD controller).

T2 CPU doesn't work with spinning hard drives, and given that PCs with any kind of budget are moving away from traditional hard drives it make sense in a premium product to go all SSD.

I would have thought that Apple were waiting for a full redesign to add the T2 into the mix and it's at this point where I expect prices to go up too as the new designs will have to implement all-SSD onboard.

But we've already seen from the NAND pricing on the 16" MacBook Pro that Apple are able to double storage for no extra cost so surely it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to go all SSD from spinning hard drives.

Perhaps we might see a 2019 21.5" iMac lingering for a while as an entry level device, and developing my idea of a 4k iMac at 24", Apple could go 4096x2304 4k DCI-P3 (like the 21.5") in a 25" iMac to replace the 27" iMac.

This allows the 27" iMac Pro to continue on and cater for the power users with a new entry level SKU.