Don't use the "native" white point. Doing so will give you the same yellow that's in the default profile. Instead, try targeting D65 or 6500K manually. That usually works for my i1 Display 2.
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iMac 24" owners. LISTEN UP!
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Don't use the "native" white point. Doing so will give you the same yellow that's in the default profile. Instead, try targeting D65 or 6500K manually. That usually works for my i1 Display 2.
Hmm... The previous 24" iMac uses LG.Philips LM240WU2-SL/A1, while the new one uses LM240WU2-SL/B1. No tellin' whether the 'A1' vs. 'B1' suffixes indicate a minor engineering revision or something related to quality -- and no luck finding specs for either on the web.
Although NEC uses the same(-ish?) part#, they also claim to measure each panel individually and store panel-specific correction factors in an ASIC that adjusts the LCD drive signal to compensate for panel non-uniformities.
There's far more to that fancy/spendy NEC monitor than a raw panel.
Regarding the new 24" iMac: I did some simple brightness measurements (using an ordinary digital camera as a light meter), and found that the left 1/3 of my iMac's screen is more than twice as bright as the right 1/3. The brightness ratio drifts around a little from hour-to-hour, but the best I've seen is a left:right luminance ratio of about 2.1:1 -- and it's sometimes as bad as 2.6:1.
Over the past week, I've repeated the measurement dozens of times -- with white, blue, and 18% gray backgrounds; with iMac, Adobe (1998), and custom color profiles; and at various brightness settings -- and the results are always in the same (> 2.0:1) ballpark.
To put this in perspective, my iMac's range of brightness adjustment (F1 & F2 keys) is slightly less than 2.0:1 -- and so, the left side of my screen, at minimum brightness, is brighter than the right side at maximum brightness. Direct measurements confirm this.
BTW, I can't detect any trace of left-to-right color shift or the "yellowing" effect reported (and photographed) by others -- but the brightness gradient is burning out my left eyeball. I love everything else about the new iMAc, but the display non-uniformity is totally unacceptable; so it's going back (...and back, ...and back, ...and back) until I find a good one.
LK
i haven't been following this thread at all.
however.
when i first took my 24" out of the box, there was a yellow-ish tint to the screen. so i calibrated it, and now there isn't. i can't screen capture it, because it's a physical characteristic of the screen. i'm sorry if this has been said before.
with regard to the unevenness of the problem, after setting my background to a dark or light grey, i was able to see what the OP was referring to. it's an optical illusion, and you'll only notice it when the screen is a completely solid colour, and again, you won't be able to screen capture it, because the illusion relies on the black border around the screen.
look at the attached image.
there are only six colours in this image.
with your eye, pick any one of the grey bars in the image.
look at the left hand side of the bar you've chosen. notice how it appears less intense than the right hand side of the same bar.
this is something your eye is doing. each bar is a single solid colour. if you don't believe me, get two sheets of paper and cover the bars either side of any one of them, and the illusion will disappear.
because of the black border around the screen, your eye does the same thing when you make the background a solid colour. if you haven't calibrated your screen, and it has a particular colour bias (e.g. yellow) this may appear to be inconsistent when you have a solid grey across your screen.
when you have windows or applications open, the illusion will disappear, because the "solid" colour is broken up by whatever you're doing on screen.
incidentally, when i chose the original colour profile on my imac, i could see what the OP was referring to, which is why i calibrated my screen
however.
when i first took my 24" out of the box, there was a yellow-ish tint to the screen. so i calibrated it, and now there isn't. i can't screen capture it, because it's a physical characteristic of the screen. i'm sorry if this has been said before.
with regard to the unevenness of the problem, after setting my background to a dark or light grey, i was able to see what the OP was referring to. it's an optical illusion, and you'll only notice it when the screen is a completely solid colour, and again, you won't be able to screen capture it, because the illusion relies on the black border around the screen.
look at the attached image.
there are only six colours in this image.
with your eye, pick any one of the grey bars in the image.
look at the left hand side of the bar you've chosen. notice how it appears less intense than the right hand side of the same bar.
this is something your eye is doing. each bar is a single solid colour. if you don't believe me, get two sheets of paper and cover the bars either side of any one of them, and the illusion will disappear.
because of the black border around the screen, your eye does the same thing when you make the background a solid colour. if you haven't calibrated your screen, and it has a particular colour bias (e.g. yellow) this may appear to be inconsistent when you have a solid grey across your screen.
when you have windows or applications open, the illusion will disappear, because the "solid" colour is broken up by whatever you're doing on screen.
incidentally, when i chose the original colour profile on my imac, i could see what the OP was referring to, which is why i calibrated my screen
Attachments
Are you suggesting that light meters are subject to optical illusions?
My brightness measurements were done in macro mode with the spot meter averaging luminance over a rectangle of about 30 x 40 pixels (total metered area slightly less than 1 cm^2).
With a solid 18% gray background and screen brightness set to minimum, my camera is currently indicating shutter speeds ranging from 1/15 sec (67 msec) in the left side "hotspot" to 1/6 sec (167 msec) an inch or two from the right-hand edge of the screen. That's a left:right luminance ratio of 2.5:1 ...or else my calculator is experiencing algebraic illusions.
BTW, a 'calibration' applies equally to each and every pixel on the display, and thus, it has absolutely no effect on color or brightness gradients caused by uneven backlighting.
LK
Ok. My third iMac has exactly the same issue. But this time it's more yellow on the right side and not in the middle like with the other two.
The backlighting seems to be a bit more even on the new one though. So I don't know if I should keep the old one or the new one.
So now what? I doubt that they will send me yet another replacement. So I guess I will have to decide if I should keep it or return it for a refund.
Since I've now had 3 units with the same defect, I'm not that optimistic about finding one without it. But at the same time, how can the 76% in the poll not see this if it's there on every single screen? I mean, it's not that hard to spot. I don't think the ones who see it has some kind of super vision.
EDIT: just checked the new one with a black screen and the backlight bleed is horrible on that one so I guess I'll keep the "old" one if any.
The backlighting seems to be a bit more even on the new one though. So I don't know if I should keep the old one or the new one.
So now what? I doubt that they will send me yet another replacement. So I guess I will have to decide if I should keep it or return it for a refund.
Since I've now had 3 units with the same defect, I'm not that optimistic about finding one without it. But at the same time, how can the 76% in the poll not see this if it's there on every single screen? I mean, it's not that hard to spot. I don't think the ones who see it has some kind of super vision.
EDIT: just checked the new one with a black screen and the backlight bleed is horrible on that one so I guess I'll keep the "old" one if any.
I'm sorry but this is just not true. If it had been an optical illusion caused by the black border then the entire edges of the screen would appear lighter than the center of it. Which is obviously not the case. Also, people have been using light meters to analyze the screen proving what we see.
Regarding the yellow tint. That is something that cannot be removed using calibration. Some profiles will indeed make it more or less visible, but it's always there. Since the color temperature is uneven across the screen a color profile simply can't fix it. A profile affects the whole screen and not just parts of it.
I am not trying to offend or flame you, but I am simply amazed at the energy you have to keep this up. I've seen your user name at a few sites now, always saying the same thing.
At what point are you going either just going to enjoy your terrific new computer, or give up and go back to a PC? It's bordering on the ridiculous now.
iMacs are flying off the shelves right now, and the vast majority of people are ecstatic with their computers.
Sorry, but that's my two bits worth. Actually, I'm not sorry. Get over it.
"A few sites" would this one and Apples discussion board right?
The thing is, I spend a good deal of my life in front of this computer (sad but true). I do my work in front of it (7-10 hours a day) and I use it for personal things as well. So it does bother me that the computer I worked hard for has a flawed screen. And it does bother me that most people say they don't have this flaw, which would mean that I am getting faulty products.
Seriously, would you pay full price for a product that doesn't function properly? Especially if it's a flaw that bugs you all the time?
Yes, I do put a lot of energy into it, because I want to get to the bottom of the issue. Why would it bother you that I spend a lot of time investigating it?
Some people spend all their free time watching bad TV or playing World of Warcraft, which is something I'll never understand, but I don't complain about it.
Over the years, I've come to expect a certain quality from Apple products. This screen certainly doesn't live up to their standards. Neither does the later cinema displays, or laptop screens (apart from the current 15" MBP). This makes me concerned about where the company is heading, and I'm not alone in this. Speaking up about it is the only chance we have of seeing any improvements in the future.
The iMac really doesn't cost very much considering what it is and what you are getting. Seriously though, you are expecting too much from Apple. The fact that they make aesthetically pleasing products doesn't put them ahead of Dell, HP, Lenovo or any other computer manufacturer. Apple uses the same panels, hard drives, optical drives, speakers (I could go on all day) as the rest of the others. If you are expecting the components and screen to be as stellar as Apple's beautiful machines are on the outside then you should expect a whole lot more expensive machine.
I disagree with your final statement. Speaking up helps only a small bit and it does nothing on forums. Apple, nor does it's team read these forums to make decisions. If you BUY something and KEEP something you are excepting the way it is and to Apple you look like a satisfied customer.
A reduction in sales speaks up. Keeping the product and complaining doesn't.
Most likely everyone here who has the iMac has a screen like yours, it just doesn't bother people as much as you. I use mine for my business and pleasure 14 hrs per day (yeah it gets used a lot) and my screen is fine to me.
So either accept it or return it. Returning it says something to Apple. I would recommend getting something else or another manufacturer if you feel you'll get better.
Very similar predicament here. I'm on my second iMac -- with a blistering hotspot on the left side of the screen -- and trying to figure out what to do next.
Today, I took my light meter (digital camera) to the local Apple store to assess the chances of swapping mine for "a good one."
Executive summary: All four 24" iMacs on display had serious brightness gradients -- all in exactly the same location. Three of them had identical L:R luminance ratios of 2.5:1, and the fourth was an indescribably horrible 3.7:1. So, they all measured WORSE than my current machine's visually painful 2.2:1.
For reference, the most recent ergonomic standard (TCO'03) caps LCD luminance non-uniformity at a maximum of 1.5:1 -- so, the best iMac in the Apple store was three times worse than many TCO'03-certified monitors bearing "prestige" names such as Samsung, Acer and PackardBell (see tcodevelopment.com).
Although Apple doesn't appear to specify anything WRT display uniformity of iMacs, it's pretty clear that their measured performance would be considered seriously deficient by the ergonomic standards community.
To be fair, the units in the store all had lower serial numbers than mine -- but I have no reason to believe that makes much difference. In any case, I'm extremely reluctant to risk making a trade for something worse -- with little/no chance of getting something better. My iMac is excellent WRT backlight bleed, and has only one dead green subpixel -- way down in the bottom right corner, where it's a total non-issue.
Yep, tough decision. As I see it, the current iMac display situation leaves a huge hole in Apple's product line. If you want to run OS-X (but demand an ergonomically acceptable screen), you're stuck with the choice of the anemic econobox MiniMac or a budget-busting, fire-breathing monster in a huge tower.
So for now, the only course of action is to pressure Apple for a solution -- on the message boards, on the phone, and by email.
"If it's not one thing, it's another."
-- Roseanne Roseannadanna
I'm currently waiting for my third iMac and I'm thinking this is getting ridiculous...
Even my Macbook (first gen) have better colour and backlight consistency than these crappy iMacs... and that's really really bad...
All I'm saying is that if even my 4 years old samsung TFT is capable of having the same colours over the whole screen, surely a iMac should?
Morons saying "It's a consumer product, get over it" should only keep quiet, as much cheaper "Consumer products" are able to have much better screens.
The yellow tint that covers parts of the screen for many users (and blueish corners) are unacceptable on Any TFT, even if they're in the $200 pricerange, and I've never seen it on ANY TFT other than these iMacs...
That is just the thing. Everything else about this computer is just perfect. So why would they cut back on one of the single most important components? How much more would it cost them to put in a screen that is as least as good as the competition? $200-300? That is not a lot more expensive, I would gladly pay that.
This is especially important in an AIO machine like the iMac or the Macbook because you cannot easily switch out the screen.
Sure Apple might have set my expectations too high with their older products. In my experience, they always tried to build the best computer possible in a certain range, and they didn't care if it was $200 more than the competition. Not that they were never faulty, but at least they didn't choose bad components intentionally to cut the price. If that really is the case here.
The problem is that I still don't know if they all look like this. According to this poll over 75% don't have screens that look like this. And why would Apple say "this is not normal" and keep sending me replacements if this is the way they are supposed to look? They are just wasting their time and money that way.
My third replacement had exactly the same issue. I returned it for a Macbook Pro 17". The same CPU but a nVidia graphics card instead. This screen outperforms the iMac even though it is a TN-panel. Even backlighting (apart from slight light from the bottom part) and white is white instead of yellow. I am really happy with it.
I think every iMac out there has this issue - but it is not a big problem for most customers. If you are working with photography I strongly advice you to look at a Cinema-screen or one of the older iMacs (I saw two white iMacs and their screens looked great).
I will run a 20" Apple Cinema with my MBP 17".
/ Jacob
I think every iMac out there has this issue - but it is not a big problem for most customers. If you are working with photography I strongly advice you to look at a Cinema-screen or one of the older iMacs (I saw two white iMacs and their screens looked great).
I will run a 20" Apple Cinema with my MBP 17".
/ Jacob
I have no doubt that there is a lighting uneveness, and that the posters who have measured it are correct... but having looked at about a dozen 24 inch iMacs now, it just doesn't matter to most people... it's about a 1 f/stop difference.
I use an Eizo monitor for my critical color work. It cost over $2K. That's without a CPU, Disk, RAM, OS or Application Suite. Quality costs and you cannot expect a $1800 computer to compete.
OTOH, it would be great if Apple would offer something between the Mini and the Pro. I can assemble a 3GHz Core 2 Duo system with all Intel components, 2GB 800MHz ram for under $1K. I would gladly pay Apple $1800 for a comparable system with Mac OS X. That should have plenty of profit margin for them.
I use an Eizo monitor for my critical color work. It cost over $2K. That's without a CPU, Disk, RAM, OS or Application Suite. Quality costs and you cannot expect a $1800 computer to compete.
OTOH, it would be great if Apple would offer something between the Mini and the Pro. I can assemble a 3GHz Core 2 Duo system with all Intel components, 2GB 800MHz ram for under $1K. I would gladly pay Apple $1800 for a comparable system with Mac OS X. That should have plenty of profit margin for them.
I'm glad to hear that you have found a solution that you are happy with! I have also gone that route but it didn't work for me personally.
I have been thinking many times that this might be an electrical issue, but I'm lacking the knowledge about how backlighting works in detail so I haven't been able to figure out a possible cause.
However, I just read a post on the Apple discussions board that suggests that the problem might be with the LCD inverter. And it would actually make perfect sense if it is. I don't understand how Apple could have made such a mistake though.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1143059&tstart=0
This at least gives me some hope for a solution in the future.
However, I just read a post on the Apple discussions board that suggests that the problem might be with the LCD inverter. And it would actually make perfect sense if it is. I don't understand how Apple could have made such a mistake though.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1143059&tstart=0
This at least gives me some hope for a solution in the future.
That's a strawman argument worthy only of a certified, card-carrying iFanboy.
No one is asking for Eizo-level performance -- but something that rises to the level of mediocre would be nice. Is it really asking too much to expect iMac to deliver performance in the same ballpark as the very lowest price 24" monitors on newegg.com?
For example, Acer's AL2416W @ $439 and Samsung's 245BW @ $479 are both TCO'03 certified, and thus guaranteed to have at least three times better brightness uniformity than any of the five iMacs I've measured.
...OTOH, the new iMac cabinet is lovely -- especially when viewed on an Acer LCD,
LK
On edit: It's worth noting that Apple wasn't pinching pennies on their LCD panel selection for 24" iMacs. The LG.Philips LM240WU2 is among the best-performing panels currently available (see: NEC LCD2490WUXi @ $1389 from newegg.com). I'm beginning to suspect that Apple may have gone off the deep end with their "thin profile" obsession -- and ended up without enough depth for a reasonable-performance backlight/inverter assembly.
.
It's funny, just when I decided that I was going to keep it, a pixel got stuck on the screen
I think fate is trying to tell me something here.So now I have to decide if I want a stuck pixel or worse backlight bleeding.
Since the iMac still is the only suitable option for me I will call apple on monday and tell them that I will keep one of them.
If this issue is sorted out I will sell it off and buy the revision.
I worry that it will get worse over time though. If this is a problem caused by the inverter, then it is likely that it will get worse.
yup. After scavenging these and other forums with interest re the new 24" display issues, I decided to get one today in the Apple Store regent street london. I asked them sales people there if they had heard of this issue and of course they hadnt =)
Have a look. Damn, I really like the mac, but can´t accept this quality since I do quite a lot of retouching of my own photography. Will probably return the machine and try another one or two before I give up..
Do you guys think there actually are any acceptable (in my case) ones around?
Have a look. Damn, I really like the mac, but can´t accept this quality since I do quite a lot of retouching of my own photography. Will probably return the machine and try another one or two before I give up..
Do you guys think there actually are any acceptable (in my case) ones around?
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From what the post tells us... yes. A majority of people don't have any problems with their screens.
If those are dead pixels running through the top of the "Skype" window in photo #4, that panel is seriously sick -- and Apple will almost certainly exchange it without question. The 24" iMacs typically have no more than one or two pixel defects -- and many (most?) have none at all.
Mine has one duff greenie, in a very unobtrusive lower corner.
.....................
...it adds character,
LK
Holograph, those pics you are showing don't exhibit the complaints people have been having, you just got a faulty computer. I can assure you if anyone including myself (since I have the same computer) had those artifacts on our screens we would not ignore them and say we're not having any issues.
To: Rainydays, you hit the nail on the head but I think you are not trying to understand. Apple does in fact make the most beautiful computers but in order for them to give such outstanding specs along with aesthetically pleasing boxes corners have to be cut in order to create a competing product on the market.
In case you haven't heard the rumor is out that Apple's computers are more expensive than the competition. I'm being sarcastic because I'm sure you have.
To get a 24" AIO with wireless N, bluetooth, gigabit ethernet, firewire 400/800, 5 usb ports and CPU specs that eat up many PC competitor's AIO's, in fact the iMac eats up many PC's CPU specs, cost will have to be cut somewhere.
The iMac does match other competitors LCD's. Show me an AIO with a better screen for the price, features, fit and finish of the iMac and I will agree with you that the iMac's screen sucks.
To: Rainydays, you hit the nail on the head but I think you are not trying to understand. Apple does in fact make the most beautiful computers but in order for them to give such outstanding specs along with aesthetically pleasing boxes corners have to be cut in order to create a competing product on the market.
In case you haven't heard the rumor is out that Apple's computers are more expensive than the competition. I'm being sarcastic because I'm sure you have.
To get a 24" AIO with wireless N, bluetooth, gigabit ethernet, firewire 400/800, 5 usb ports and CPU specs that eat up many PC competitor's AIO's, in fact the iMac eats up many PC's CPU specs, cost will have to be cut somewhere.
The iMac does match other competitors LCD's. Show me an AIO with a better screen for the price, features, fit and finish of the iMac and I will agree with you that the iMac's screen sucks.
Here in Italy
The situation here in Italy is the same: faded screens from left to right and yellow tint. I have tested others iMacs in the stores and all have the same issue (more or less). So I have made the sad decision (damn, the rest of this machine was perfect...) and return it for refund.
But... now I don't know what desktop to buy for my needs (Mac Mini? Too much underpowered. Mac Pro? Too much pricey).
Apple... what are You doing?
The situation here in Italy is the same: faded screens from left to right and yellow tint. I have tested others iMacs in the stores and all have the same issue (more or less). So I have made the sad decision (damn, the rest of this machine was perfect...
) and return it for refund.But... now I don't know what desktop to buy for my needs (Mac Mini? Too much underpowered. Mac Pro? Too much pricey).
Apple... what are You doing?