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iMessage needs to treat sent messages like WhatsApp
- Thread starter Ebok
- Start date
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You seem to think everyone has what’s ap. I won’t ever put that app on my phone. Facebook is not someone I want tracking my every message.. iMessage is everything i need and way more to Communicate with everyone.
Absolutely nothing sub standard about I message either. And not all that proprietary since it allows you to text anyone with a phone number...
As an aside, if anyone’s interested in why WhatsApp is more popular outside the US, speaking from the UK at least: while many plans come with lots/unlimited SMS, MMS is usually not included this, so you get charged for them. Also, I’m not aware of any carrier here supporting group MMS (and no one would want to use them anyway cos of the cost anyway).
In America, where it seems MMS is just as free as SMS, it makes sense that the Messages app would be popular. Even if your friends have Androids, it’s still fine to use Messages and have it fall back to MMS for media and groups. We can’t really do that here. So rather than split our time between two services it’s either just to do everything with WhatsApp, even if sometimes SMS would be ok.
In America, where it seems MMS is just as free as SMS, it makes sense that the Messages app would be popular. Even if your friends have Androids, it’s still fine to use Messages and have it fall back to MMS for media and groups. We can’t really do that here. So rather than split our time between two services it’s either just to do everything with WhatsApp, even if sometimes SMS would be ok.
It's not that nobody uses it, but nobody I've ever met does. Since my family, circle of friends, and co-workers are all very iMessage centric, no reason to have anyone switch over.
Love to have goalposts moved
“You can’t convince anyone to use WhatsApp”
“Sure?”
“Well... My friends don’t use it.”
In France, SMS, MMS and unlimited calls in Europe are included for 5€ and sometimes for 0.99€ when there’re sales.
But a lot of my friends, Android or Iphone users, uses WhatsApp
Both the Messages.app and WhatsApp.app have there advantages and disadvantages.
As far as the main group goes if a messages doesn't go through for me when I send it I don't want it to automatically send later. This is because most of my text are time sensitive. Sending them later for me would often cause confusion or make it appear I'm illiterate and/or lazy asking or stating something that has already been stated by someone else. That said, I'm not against having the option for auto retry built in.
I think integration should be mentioned first though. Its not realistic to think a 3rd party app can integrate with the OS and ecosystem as an app made and preinstalled by the the device and OS manufacturer themselves.
However that doesn't mean integration should be overlooked. The Message app just works better with the users devices and how they are used. If you are reading Messages your other devices won't use a notification alert, whereas WhatsApp has my house going off like grand central.
Messages also has larger range of products (speaking as an Apple user) for Messages to be integrated into.The Apple Watch has a Messages app but WhatsApp doesn't. The HomePod can read and send text when you iPhone is nearby it, WhatsApp can't. The HomePod is currently closed off for development so I can't blame WhatsApp however again its doesn't mean the convenience of Messages working with the HomePod should be dismissed.
Other things, WhatsApp severely degrades image quality of photos sent through the app by reducing resolution and lossy recompression. This degradation of photos is on par with cell carriers SMS systems,
When using iMessage in Apples Messages app you'll send the actual photo/video unmolested from the state it is in saved on your phone. You do have the option to lower photo quality to save on cellular data usage with Messages as well.
There are workarounds for WhatsApp behavior like sending the photo as a document or zipping the file however no one ever does this. When I get a photo via WhatsApp that I want to save I have to have the sender e-mail to me or if they have an iPhone just iMessage it too me.
However they aren't done destroying your photos and video quite yet. The WhatsApp camera only uses the most basic APIs at an even lower resolution that what it reduces images too when sent. This is comparing the native Camera app, the camera app in messages and the camera app in WhatsApp.
And as you can see it doesn't use an ICC profile, not that it really matters due to the amount of photo data removed from an already lossy file. Any app can use the stock iOS camera specs and features. Its pretty clear they are trying to minimize bandwidth and server usage, and all it cost you is the quality of your photos. Not going to say its not a common practice but other apps with built in camera are typically much better, instagram for example is identical to Apples camera as far as how the hardware is used.
All of that isn't actually a huge deal , just avoid taking/sending images in WhatsApp if you care at all about the fidelity of your photos. Its not like WhatsApp is a photography app but when it comes to a messaging app that you are constant communication with friends, co-workers, and family than a camera and the apps ability to send photos is very important.
However I think the main issue with WhatsApp is that it doesn't come as a default app on the iPhone. It requires setting it up and it requires you telling other people they need to go out of their way if they want to text you.
The Messages.app and iMessages themselves are FAR from perfect and WhatsApp undeniably has some nice features. However I use WhatsApp out of necessity to appease some friends I have that live outside the US but I've never been a big fan of it. I actually prefer the even more basic app GroupMe.
Edit : Sorry for all the grammatical errors 2 days without sleep has my head spinning.
As far as the main group goes if a messages doesn't go through for me when I send it I don't want it to automatically send later. This is because most of my text are time sensitive. Sending them later for me would often cause confusion or make it appear I'm illiterate and/or lazy asking or stating something that has already been stated by someone else. That said, I'm not against having the option for auto retry built in.
I think integration should be mentioned first though. Its not realistic to think a 3rd party app can integrate with the OS and ecosystem as an app made and preinstalled by the the device and OS manufacturer themselves.
However that doesn't mean integration should be overlooked. The Message app just works better with the users devices and how they are used. If you are reading Messages your other devices won't use a notification alert, whereas WhatsApp has my house going off like grand central.
Messages also has larger range of products (speaking as an Apple user) for Messages to be integrated into.The Apple Watch has a Messages app but WhatsApp doesn't. The HomePod can read and send text when you iPhone is nearby it, WhatsApp can't. The HomePod is currently closed off for development so I can't blame WhatsApp however again its doesn't mean the convenience of Messages working with the HomePod should be dismissed.
Other things, WhatsApp severely degrades image quality of photos sent through the app by reducing resolution and lossy recompression. This degradation of photos is on par with cell carriers SMS systems,
When using iMessage in Apples Messages app you'll send the actual photo/video unmolested from the state it is in saved on your phone. You do have the option to lower photo quality to save on cellular data usage with Messages as well.
There are workarounds for WhatsApp behavior like sending the photo as a document or zipping the file however no one ever does this. When I get a photo via WhatsApp that I want to save I have to have the sender e-mail to me or if they have an iPhone just iMessage it too me.
However they aren't done destroying your photos and video quite yet. The WhatsApp camera only uses the most basic APIs at an even lower resolution that what it reduces images too when sent. This is comparing the native Camera app, the camera app in messages and the camera app in WhatsApp.
And as you can see it doesn't use an ICC profile, not that it really matters due to the amount of photo data removed from an already lossy file. Any app can use the stock iOS camera specs and features. Its pretty clear they are trying to minimize bandwidth and server usage, and all it cost you is the quality of your photos. Not going to say its not a common practice but other apps with built in camera are typically much better, instagram for example is identical to Apples camera as far as how the hardware is used.
All of that isn't actually a huge deal , just avoid taking/sending images in WhatsApp if you care at all about the fidelity of your photos. Its not like WhatsApp is a photography app but when it comes to a messaging app that you are constant communication with friends, co-workers, and family than a camera and the apps ability to send photos is very important.
However I think the main issue with WhatsApp is that it doesn't come as a default app on the iPhone. It requires setting it up and it requires you telling other people they need to go out of their way if they want to text you.
The Messages.app and iMessages themselves are FAR from perfect and WhatsApp undeniably has some nice features. However I use WhatsApp out of necessity to appease some friends I have that live outside the US but I've never been a big fan of it. I actually prefer the even more basic app GroupMe.
Edit : Sorry for all the grammatical errors 2 days without sleep has my head spinning.
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I can’t say I’ve seen many bugs at all, even in iOS 12 beta. And what “missing features” do you speak of?
Why would you try to text when you aren't connected to a network? By the time the user got the message it would be pointless possibly.
the point is it takes a few minutes waiting for the elevator by the time i get to my unit. since i'm doing nothing waiting i can use my time efficiently by reading the messages and responding to them then and there and hit send. it sits in a queue waiting for a network and once i connect to a network or wifi it sends, rather than 'fail'.
Why not just get on a better network so you can stay connected all the time? You on T-Mobile or something?
iMessage is great. Can leave your phone at home on WiFi and go on holidays using your iPad.... and then SMS people back home using your normal phone number.
You have WhatsApp on multiple devices? Interested in how or why - I'm aware it's possible in a hacky way but WhatsApp is meant to be tied to one mobile device. You can use the web client (which is a missing feature of iMessage!) and, although I'm not 100% on the behaviour here, I think it won't notify on your phone if you're actively using the web client, or, if you do receive the notification on your phone, that will be cleared if you read it on the web first.
This isn't true. HomePod supports SiriKit, which supports messaging in third party apps. WhatsApp support SiriKit on iPhone (i.e. you can send and read messages) and I can only assume this naturally extends to HomePod. If extra support has to be added for HomePod and WhatsApp hasn't done that, fair enough. But it's certainly able to add that support at some point.
That's not how I see it. Firstly, WhatsApp is quite easy to set up - unlike some messaging systems it doesn't require an account. You just use your unique phone number and it sends an SMS with a verification code to confirm it, and you're done. You don't need to add people either, it just works off your phone book, so you can easily send a WhatsApp to people you know if they've got it installed too. Secondly, SMS is still open to anyone who doesn't want to use another messaging app, but for those that don't mind, WhatsApp is easy to install and discover each other on it.
I think you made a great post with lots of good points, I just picked out the bits I wanted to comment on. You're definitely right about WhatsApp image degradation, that is a true shame.
One of the advantages of iMessage for me is that I can send them from my laptop and iPad without needing to have my phone on. Maybe it's out of battery, or (recently at least!) installing a new iOS beta, or whatever.
did you even read my post? no network works underground, especially 3rd level underground where my spot is.
i don't see how this is so complicated. instead of a message failing it should sit in a queue until you connect.. if you don't connect within 5minutes, it gives you an alert that you have no network/service to set the message... rather than the method NOW is that it ATTEMPTS to send for about a minute then gives you "MESSAGE SEND FAIL"
You are correct. I was confusing WhatsApp with another similar web based messaging app when getting alerts. And I specifically tried to send a message in WhatsApp with my HomePod when I typed that post and got "Sorry I can't do that". Tried it again today and it worked, worked flawlessly actually.
While I don't disagree that WhatsApp isn't actually that hard to set up and use. However its infinitely more difficult than doing literally nothing and using the app thats is already in place especially if you don't have a real need for it.
I believe the opinions of WhatsApp vs Messages vary so much due to locations and how carriers work or something especially in countries outside the US. Only reason I got WhatsApp and still have it is for because that is what friends that no longer in the US use. I did ask why "WhatsApp" specifically and I got the responds, "because that what everyone uses here". Which makes perfect sense however that doesn't apply here nor does it make it better.
Don't get me wrong I don't hate the app, just lower on my preferences of messaging apps than the native app.
WhatsApp
- Free/no MMS required to send media to non-iPhones
- Better group management
- Web client (but reliant on iPhone)
- Can quote messages
- Can delete messages
- Queue messages
- Online/last seen/status
- Much better message search
iMessage
- Best media quality
- iPad and macOS clients (independent of iPhone)
- React to messages
- App integration via tray
- Rich/interactive notifications
- Integrated with SMS/MMS
- Comes built in
- Free/no MMS required to send media to non-iPhones
- Better group management
- Web client (but reliant on iPhone)
- Can quote messages
- Can delete messages
- Queue messages
- Online/last seen/status
- Much better message search
iMessage
- Best media quality
- iPad and macOS clients (independent of iPhone)
- React to messages
- App integration via tray
- Rich/interactive notifications
- Integrated with SMS/MMS
- Comes built in
jeeze, people need to learn to read. i just want sent messages to be treated like whatsapp (aka in a queue if you're offline/in a dead zone rather than failing to send). this has nothing to do with facebook.
How often are you in a dead zone that you need that feature? Whats the difference between sending it right then with no signal and sending it when you do have signal?
Daily in my garage waiting for an elevator. As I stated before instead of standing there picking my nose I can make better use of my time lol. Especially since once you read a message you can’t set it as unread (something that’s also annoying), and I forget to respond to messages.