Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
In 3 years, 50% of all computers capable of playing AAA games will be Macs
- Thread starter senttoschool
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Also, they are all anonymous sources cause of apple contracts preventing them from freely speaking. They are getting delays in payment for work done, they don't want to be sued too.
It's important for the sake of clarity and credibility to follow up on the story whether Apple responded or not. If Apple responded we would have an explanation or official statement. If they still haven't we should get to know that the blame is on them. As it is now it sounds as if the blame is on the reporter for not following it up.
If this was a one-off, it would be more suspect. But it's not. Apple has a history of being actively hostile towards game developers. Many many years ago, I went on a rant about it on this site, but the long and the short of the problems are:While I'm sure there can be problems with Apple this is a series of articles by the same writer called Neil Long at mobile gamer.biz with questionable sources. He also writes in both articles about Apple Arcade that "We have contacted Apple for comment on this report and will update this story if or when they respond." but since the first time back in Feb he hasn't updated the story with any news about a response from Apple.
Inside Apple Arcade: axed games, declining payouts, disillusioned studios – and an uncertain future - Mobilegamer.biz
Apple’s game subscription service seems to be on auto-pilot after the tech giant “cancelled a ******** of projects and pissed off a lot of people,” our sources say. And now there are whispers of another reboot.mobilegamer.biz
Those Assassin’s Creed, Resident Evil and Death Stranding ports have bombed - Mobilegamer.biz
Estimates suggest that fewer than 3,000 people have paid $49.99 to play Assassin’s Creed Mirage on iPhone. Other console ports like Resident Evil 4 and Death Stranding have flopped too.
Under 2,000 people have paid to play Resident Evil 7 on iOS, estimates say - Mobilegamer.biz
Appmagic estimates suggest that, rather unsurprisingly, the latest console game port to come to iOS has also flopped.
Inside Apple Arcade (again): late payments, stonewalled studios, terrible tech support and Vision Pro woes - Mobilegamer.biz
Vision Pro can’t handle “complex games” and working with Apple is like being in an “abusive relationship”, say our sources.
1) Apple doesn't provide GPU support to game devs.
And that's it. There is no point #2. AMD/nVidia/Nintendo/Sony/MS will provide hardware support to work around issues. Sony, Nintendo, and MS will provide software support to help developers work around driver or OS issues. The end result is that, if a game studio finds a bug on the PS5, AMD and Sony will be engaged to fix it (or find a work around) so that the game can ship.
When you find a bug on an Apple platform, the bug ticket may or may not be worked on, and if it is fixed, you may or may not be notified. The fix may or may not require a whole new OS to get it to the hands of the end users -- and that's assuming that the are actually updating their libraries, and aren't leaving the graphics libraries to rot for half a decade like they did with openGL.
Game developers hate Apple, end users don't care about gaming when they can play the same game (when a mac port even exists) with better graphics on any other platform.
If you build it, they will come. But if you are hostile to everyone and everything, no one will bother showing up, ever.
That's not quite true. Many major developers have direct contacts inside Apple, and aren't stuck in the Feedback Assistant limbo, furthermore Metal is quite good these days, especially on Apple Silicon, and every minor macOS release improves it.
Obviously if you are an indie developer making your first game and never programmed something on macOS before it will still take a bit to understand how things work, because it's not Windows, but that's not necessarily because of worse API.
That doesn't mean that Apple Arcade is not mismanaged or that their sales team sucks. Both can be true at the same time.
Obviously if you are an indie developer making your first game and never programmed something on macOS before it will still take a bit to understand how things work, because it's not Windows, but that's not necessarily because of worse API.
That doesn't mean that Apple Arcade is not mismanaged or that their sales team sucks. Both can be true at the same time.
While I’m sure Apple has its flaws and people have different experiences of their support you’re generalizing blatantly just like another PC gamer. There are officially several cases of Apple helping and working closely with game developers, especially since the release of Apple Silicon.
At WWDC 2021 Apple revealed that 4A and Larian had asked them for help for optimizing Metro Exodus and Baldur’s Gate 3 for Apple Silicon and Metal and Apple had happily helped them for free.
Optimize high-end games for Apple GPUs - WWDC21 - Videos - Apple Developer
Optimize your high-end games for Apple GPUs: We'll show you how you can use our rendering and debugging tools to eliminate performance...
At WWDC 2022 they announced their collaboration with Capcom and Hello games which brought us Resident Evil Village, Winters’ Expansion and No Man’s Sky.
At WWDC 2023 they announced their collaboration with Hideo Kojima Production which brought us Death Stranding DC.
At WWDC 2024 they announced their collaboration with Ubisoft and their work on AC Mirage, AC Shadows and Prince of Persia: Lost Crown.
Hello Games worked on NMS a whole year without Apple's involvement. Halfway through Apple got involved and offered great help to bring Mac gamers 7 years of content free for everybody who already owned it on Steam. Some devs take the easy way. Some like Hello Games love the challenge:
"As a dev team, we watch Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference every year with excitement to see what shiny new tech they're going to unveil. Moving our engine to Vulkan moved us closer to Metal, and when Apple Silicon was announced, the opportunity and challenge was just too tantalizing to pass up. We've been working on this move to Metal for nearly two years now. About halfway through, Apple got involved as a close and very helpful partner, we couldn't have done it without them. It would probably be easier to just do a basic port of a game to a new architecture, but we wanted this to feel like a native game, something built for the hardware. It meant adopting a new rendering pipeline, shifting development to Xcode and Mac machines, and revisiting everything from controls to load times to reimplementing multiplayer. Certainly, it's painstaking and meticulous work, but it wasn't painful, it's the type of challenge we enjoy. I'm excited to see where a move to Metal might lead in future. This is just our next step in a longer journey."
Exclusive Q&A with the creator of 'No Man's Sky'
AppleInsider managed to get a few moments with Hello Games CEO Sean Murray to ask a few questions about the "No Man's Sky" launch on Mac. Here's what he had to say.
appleinsider.com
Apple engineers worked also with Piranha Bytes on ELEX II for a native port. It only took about 8 months to port a DX12 open world game to Mac with all the bells and whistles.
"Piranha Bytes always strives to deliver more complex and enhanced games, and bringing ELEX II to Mac was no exception. ELEX II takes advantage of the Metal shading language to tap into Apple silicon performance. With Metal's Indirect Command Buffer (ICB) approach on Mac, the game also fully embraces GPU driven pipelines. In a little over eight months, a team specializing in GPU and Metal ported the DX12 version of ELEX II to Mac. ELEX II worked closely with Metal engineers to take full advantage of the many powerful features and tools to deliver a truly wonderful game."
They also have worked with Bloober Team on Layers of Fear and The Medium. Apple even showcased The Medium during the session about Game Porting Toolkit.
"Apple silicon has transformed gaming on Mac — delivering incredible graphics performance, new capabilities, along with extraordinary battery life,” said Bloober Team CEO Piotr Babieno."
‘Layers of Fear’ remake is launching on day one for Mac
Horror collection ‘Layers of Fear’ already had a concrete release date of June 15th for many platforms, but now the day one launch also includes Apple Mac computers. This is only for recently-released models with Apple-manufactured silicon chips, but it’s certainly a feather in the company’s...
www.engadget.com
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10123/
Yeah, Apple is so actively hostile towards game developers that Capcom decided to keep porting more titles like Resident Evil 4 with DLCs, Resident Evil 7 Biohazard with DLCs and Resident Evil 2 with DLCs. Game devs hate Apple so much that they keep porting AAA and indie titles to Mac; like Assassin’s Creed Shadows, Prince of Persia: Lost Crown, Farming Simulator 25, World of GOO, Palworld, Frostpunk 2, Control Ultimate Edition, Dead Island 2, Robocop Rogue City, Riven, Valheim, Sniper Elite 4, Lies of P, Stray, Snowrunner, Everspace 2, EVE Online Equinox, Isonzo, Toal War: Pharaoh, Grid Legends and thousands more each year. There were over 5500 Mac games released only on Steam last year.
Ubisoft must have absolutely hated the fact that ”The Game Porting Toolkit saved us many months of development, greatly accelerating our timeline to bring the shaders from Assassin’s Creed Mirage to Metal”.
Yeah, Apple despises game developers so much that they even give away a Design Award to them each year since 1997 for ”Innovation” and ”Visuals and Graphics” among other categories. Some recent winners are Lies of P, RE Village and Genshin Impact.
Your situation may be different but here is another developer who is excited and ”bullish” on Mac gaming, CCP Games with EVE Online:
“One of the first things we had to do was really look at our core architecture and how we developed the game. We had to take the game from 32-bit to 64-bit. There was a lot of just cleanup of old, fantastic ideas [in the code] that were probably the best ideas at the moment they were made, but the game is 18 years old, so there’s been 18 years of development, 18 years of progress in the world. It sometimes catches up to you, but this process was way smoother than I’d even dared to predict when we started this project.”
”We’ve done this because we’ve had a Mac client for the longest time and there’s been a lot of love from Apple on EVE. There are a lot of people at Apple that are EVE players, and a lot of people at CCP that are Mac users. So that’s definitely been part of our motivation, and the user base that uses a Mac is a healthy number.”
”Perhaps most important of all, though, is Apple’s move to its own silicon. The M1 really, really, really changes the situation. It is a really powerful piece of kit and there’s more to come, based on rumors and whatnot and reading the tea leaves. Other studios, absolutely, should update their worldview on the capabilities of the Mac. The laptops in particular are a game change. Like, you can play EVE Online on an M1 Mac for hours on end on battery, and nothing really compares on that front. You can’t really do that on any other laptop but an M1 laptop, and that is a fundamental game-changer to how you can play EVE Online. Playing on a battery was kind of science fiction before the M1.”
”That isn’t chalked up to the hardware alone, obviously. EVE Online’s native Mac client was specifically optimized for the Apple M1 chip, so it runs especially well on this hardware compared to other games. It’s definitely a testament to the great work that the team did on the Metal rendering path [for the Mac client].”
“I think people have largely been in this camp of Macs and games not being a match made in heaven, but people should update their worldview. We’ve seen a great benefit from doing this, and I think we will continue to reap the benefits for a long time to come.”
EVE Online developers are bullish on Mac gaming – and think you should be too
CCP Games is excited about what Apple's new silicon can do
The majority of computer users or Mac users don’t live for gaming. Hardcore gamers are in fact a minority. Most gamers are casual gamers who don’t need or want to spend too much time and money on different gaming HW/SW. So when a native port is available it’s a better choice for casual Mac gamers.
Developers are also the ones who know their market best and can decide if it’s worth to make a Mac port. Obviously they believe so in all these cases because nobody likes to loose money. According to SteamDB 17,390 Windows games are scheduled for release or have been released this year. 3,654 of those are planned for Mac. That’s 21%, only on Steam. The fact that Mac with only 1.37% user share on Steam gets 21% of the games does simply show that most developers don’t hate Apple, Apple is not actively hostile towards game devs and Mac users care about gaming. Remember that people don’t buy Macs for gaming but Mac users like to game too and always welcome native ports.
2022 CTA Gaming Study
The U.S. gaming population expanded by 3% from 2019 to 2022, as 9 million new gamers aged 13 to 64 entered the market, according to a new Consumer Technology Association (CTA)® study.
They can play the same game with better graphics on any other platform? You mean like all the buggy, badly optimized and failed PC AAA releases in the recent years that could cripple even the best gaming systems and took months or years to fix? Like Cities: Skylines 2, Starfield, The Last of US 1, SW Jedi: Survivor, Hogwarts Legacy, The Lamplighters League, Redfall, Gollum, Cyberpunk, The Day Before, Destiny 2: Lightfall, Horizon Zero Dawn and many more?
Also what difference does it make to be able to play games on other platforms when you don’t even have the time? Gamers have backlogs worth $19 Billion in total. When people compare the vast library of PC games to Mac I often wonder how many of those games people actually finish or play at all. Many times it feels like a continuing search for the next big title rather than actually enjoying and finishing the games you have. It’s not about playing but wishing to own and play the latest and greatest games we never get the chance to.
PC Gamers Spent Whopping $19 Billion On Games They Never Played
PC gamers continue to build their backlogs without going through them, adding up to over $1.9 billion of unplayed games.
tech4gamers.com
Last edited:
While I’m sure Apple has its flaws and people have different experiences of their support you’re generalizing blatantly just like another PC gamer. There are officially several cases of Apple helping and working closely with game developers, especially since the release of Apple Silicon.
At WWDC 2021 Apple revealed that 4A and Larian had asked them for help for optimizing Metro Exodus and Baldur’s Gate 3 for Apple Silicon and Metal and Apple had happily helped them for free.
Optimize high-end games for Apple GPUs - WWDC21 - Videos - Apple Developer
Optimize your high-end games for Apple GPUs: We'll show you how you can use our rendering and debugging tools to eliminate performance...developer.apple.com
At WWDC 2022 they announced their collaboration with Capcom and Hello games which brought us Resident Evil Village, Winters’ Expansion and No Man’s Sky.
At WWDC 2023 they announced their collaboration with Hideo Kojima Production which brought us Death Stranding DC.
At WWDC 2024 they announced their collaboration with Ubisoft and their work on AC Mirage, AC Shadows and Prince of Persia: Lost Crown.
Hello Games worked on NMS a whole year without Apple's involvement. Halfway through Apple got involved and offered great help to bring Mac gamers 7 years of content free for everybody who already owned it on Steam. Some devs take the easy way. Some like Hello Games love the challenge:
"As a dev team, we watch Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference every year with excitement to see what shiny new tech they're going to unveil. Moving our engine to Vulkan moved us closer to Metal, and when Apple Silicon was announced, the opportunity and challenge was just too tantalizing to pass up. We've been working on this move to Metal for nearly two years now. About halfway through, Apple got involved as a close and very helpful partner, we couldn't have done it without them. It would probably be easier to just do a basic port of a game to a new architecture, but we wanted this to feel like a native game, something built for the hardware. It meant adopting a new rendering pipeline, shifting development to Xcode and Mac machines, and revisiting everything from controls to load times to reimplementing multiplayer. Certainly, it's painstaking and meticulous work, but it wasn't painful, it's the type of challenge we enjoy. I'm excited to see where a move to Metal might lead in future. This is just our next step in a longer journey."
Exclusive Q&A with the creator of 'No Man's Sky'
AppleInsider managed to get a few moments with Hello Games CEO Sean Murray to ask a few questions about the "No Man's Sky" launch on Mac. Here's what he had to say.
Apple engineers worked also with Piranha Bytes on ELEX II for a native port. It only took about 8 months to port a DX12 open world game to Mac with all the bells and whistles.
"Piranha Bytes always strives to deliver more complex and enhanced games, and bringing ELEX II to Mac was no exception. ELEX II takes advantage of the Metal shading language to tap into Apple silicon performance. With Metal's Indirect Command Buffer (ICB) approach on Mac, the game also fully embraces GPU driven pipelines. In a little over eight months, a team specializing in GPU and Metal ported the DX12 version of ELEX II to Mac. ELEX II worked closely with Metal engineers to take full advantage of the many powerful features and tools to deliver a truly wonderful game."
They also have worked with Bloober Team on Layers of Fear and The Medium. Apple even showcased The Medium during the session about Game Porting Toolkit.
"Apple silicon has transformed gaming on Mac — delivering incredible graphics performance, new capabilities, along with extraordinary battery life,” said Bloober Team CEO Piotr Babieno."
‘Layers of Fear’ remake is launching on day one for Mac
Horror collection ‘Layers of Fear’ already had a concrete release date of June 15th for many platforms, but now the day one launch also includes Apple Mac computers. This is only for recently-released models with Apple-manufactured silicon chips, but it’s certainly a feather in the company’s...
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10123/
Yeah, Apple is so actively hostile towards game developers that Capcom decided to keep porting more titles like Resident Evil 4 with DLCs, Resident Evil 7 Biohazard with DLCs and Resident Evil 2 with DLCs. Game devs hate Apple so much that they keep porting AAA and indie titles to Mac; like Assassin’s Creed Shadows, Prince of Persia: Lost Crown, Farming Simulator 25, World of GOO, Palworld, Frostpunk 2, Control Ultimate Edition, Dead Island 2, Robocop Rogue City, Riven, Valheim, Sniper Elite 4, Lies of P, Stray, Snowrunner, Everspace 2, EVE Online Equinox, Isonzo, Toal War: Pharaoh, Grid Legends and thousands more each year. There were over 5500 Mac games released only on Steam last year.
Ubisoft must have absolutely hated the fact that ”The Game Porting Toolkit saved us many months of development, greatly accelerating our timeline to bring the shaders from Assassin’s Creed Mirage to Metal”.
Yeah, Apple despises game developers so much that they even give away a Design Award to them each year since 1997 for ”Innovation” and ”Visuals and Graphics” among other categories. Some recent winners are Lies of P, RE Village and Genshin Impact.
Your situation may be different but here is another developer who is excited and ”bullish” on Mac gaming, CCP Games with EVE Online:
“One of the first things we had to do was really look at our core architecture and how we developed the game. We had to take the game from 32-bit to 64-bit. There was a lot of just cleanup of old, fantastic ideas [in the code] that were probably the best ideas at the moment they were made, but the game is 18 years old, so there’s been 18 years of development, 18 years of progress in the world. It sometimes catches up to you, but this process was way smoother than I’d even dared to predict when we started this project.”
”We’ve done this because we’ve had a Mac client for the longest time and there’s been a lot of love from Apple on EVE. There are a lot of people at Apple that are EVE players, and a lot of people at CCP that are Mac users. So that’s definitely been part of our motivation, and the user base that uses a Mac is a healthy number.”
”Perhaps most important of all, though, is Apple’s move to its own silicon. The M1 really, really, really changes the situation. It is a really powerful piece of kit and there’s more to come, based on rumors and whatnot and reading the tea leaves. Other studios, absolutely, should update their worldview on the capabilities of the Mac. The laptops in particular are a game change. Like, you can play EVE Online on an M1 Mac for hours on end on battery, and nothing really compares on that front. You can’t really do that on any other laptop but an M1 laptop, and that is a fundamental game-changer to how you can play EVE Online. Playing on a battery was kind of science fiction before the M1.”
”That isn’t chalked up to the hardware alone, obviously. EVE Online’s native Mac client was specifically optimized for the Apple M1 chip, so it runs especially well on this hardware compared to other games. It’s definitely a testament to the great work that the team did on the Metal rendering path [for the Mac client].”
“I think people have largely been in this camp of Macs and games not being a match made in heaven, but people should update their worldview. We’ve seen a great benefit from doing this, and I think we will continue to reap the benefits for a long time to come.”
EVE Online developers are bullish on Mac gaming – and think you should be too
CCP Games is excited about what Apple's new silicon can dowww.techradar.com
The majority of computer users or Mac users don’t live for gaming. Hardcore gamers are in fact a minority. Most gamers are casual gamers who don’t need or want to spend too much time and money on different gaming HW/SW. So when a native port is available it’s a better choice for casual Mac gamers.
Developers are also the ones who know their market best and can decide if it’s worth to make a Mac port. Obviously they believe so in all these cases because nobody likes to loose money. According to SteamDB 17,390 Windows games are scheduled for release or have been released this year. 3,654 of those are planned for Mac. That’s 21%, only on Steam. The fact that Mac with only 1.37% user share on Steam gets 21% of the games does simply show that most developers don’t hate Apple, Apple is not actively hostile towards game devs and Mac users care about gaming. Remember that people don’t buy Macs for gaming but Mac users like to game too and always welcome native ports.
2022 CTA Gaming Study
The U.S. gaming population expanded by 3% from 2019 to 2022, as 9 million new gamers aged 13 to 64 entered the market, according to a new Consumer Technology Association (CTA)® study.www.cta.tech
They can play the same game with better graphics on any other platform? You mean like all the buggy, badly optimized and failed PC AAA releases in the recent years that could cripple even the best gaming systems and took months or years to fix? Like Cities: Skylines 2, Starfield, The Last of US 1, SW Jedi: Survivor, Hogwarts Legacy, The Lamplighters League, Redfall, Gollum, Cyberpunk, The Day Before, Destiny 2: Lightfall, Horizon Zero Dawn and many more?
Also what difference does it make to be able to play games on other platforms when you don’t even have the time? Gamers have backlogs worth $19 Billion in total. When people compare the vast library of PC games to Mac I often wonder how many of those games people actually finish or play at all. Many times it feels like a continuing search for the next big title rather than actually enjoying and finishing the games you have. It’s not about playing but wishing to own and play the latest and greatest games we never get the chance to.
PC Gamers Spent Whopping $19 Billion On Games They Never Played
PC gamers continue to build their backlogs without going through them, adding up to over $1.9 billion of unplayed games.
The whole "19 billion" thing is faulty to begin with. They don't know the actual purchase price of games and they don't know the true time played for all titles. Many people buy games on sale and in bundles for steep discounts which aren't reflected in the 19 billion. Neither are titles that were completed prior to Steam tracking time.
I've personally bought bundles because one game that I wanted was at its lowest price ever in the bundle.
People generally want to play the games they want to play. Not random crap that happens to work OK on Mac.
It's also funny to pretend macOS is some stable gaming paradise. The main reason you hear less issues is there's about 8 users.
The whole "19 billion" thing is faulty to begin with. They don't know the actual purchase price of games and they don't know the true time played for all titles. Many people buy games on sale and in bundles for steep discounts which aren't reflected in the 19 billion. Neither are titles that were completed prior to Steam tracking time.
I've personally bought bundles because one game that I wanted was at its lowest price ever in the bundle.
People generally want to play the games they want to play. Not random crap that happens to work OK on Mac.
It's also funny to pretend macOS is some stable gaming paradise. The main reason you hear less issues is there's about 8 users.
1 billion or 19 billion makes little difference. It’s an age-old established fact that many gamers have large backlogs and buy games they want to play without having the time. If all those AAA Mac games are ”random crap” to you it just shows your taste in gaming regardless of platform. You can also be sure that the number of shovelware is many times more on Windows. I also don’t see anyone claiming macOS is a ”stable gaming paradise”. That’s just your intentional interpretation but the fact is that thanks to later releases on Mac many initial bugs and problems have been fixed by the time of a Mac port.
What’s indeed funny is the habit of pretending that the grass is always greener on the other side and that Mac ports and Mac gaming have no purpose and right to exist, just because you can play games earlier on other platforms. It’s not the age of the games that decides if they’re good, it’s their quality. With that logic we should boycott all movies older than three years that we haven’t watched yet, especially the classics. Forget about those old junks like Godfather, Alien, Terminator and Lord of the Rings. I guess we should also stop eating all kinds of food since the recipes are hundreds or thousands of years old. Forget pizza and pasta! Insects are the latest and greatest.
You’re also simply wrong about Mac facts. In 2021 Steam had 132 million monthly active users. That number is now over 150 million for sure considering the yearly increase of users. 1.37% of those are Mac users which means over 2 million monthly active Mac users only on Steam but sure, play what you want on your Steam Deck at 240p Low for an enjoyable gaming experience instead of ”random crap” on Mac. Nobody's stopping you.
Comunidade Steam :: Guia :: Horizon Zero Dawn | Crashes, Stuttering, Low FPS and Performance Fixes
Horizon Zero Dawn is now available on Steam for PC and despite the expectations, the game is plagued with bugs and crashes. Most players experience issues even while having high-end PCs. Guerilla Game
Horizon Zero Dawn on PC: Not the optimized port we were hoping for
How many of our issues will be ironed out by Friday’s launch on Steam?
arstechnica.com
Horizon Zero Dawn's Poor PC Performance Is Developer's Top Priority
Guerrilla knows players' issues with the game.
6 Great Games That Received Bad PC Ports
PC ports aren't always perfect, and the following great game releases are a big proof of it.
Huh I completely missed these reviews. I still have the game for PS4 and I haven't played it yet.Comunidade Steam :: Guia :: Horizon Zero Dawn | Crashes, Stuttering, Low FPS and Performance Fixes
Horizon Zero Dawn is now available on Steam for PC and despite the expectations, the game is plagued with bugs and crashes. Most players experience issues even while having high-end PCs. Guerilla Gamesteamcommunity.com
Horizon Zero Dawn on PC: Not the optimized port we were hoping for
How many of our issues will be ironed out by Friday’s launch on Steam?
Horizon Zero Dawn's Poor PC Performance Is Developer's Top Priority
Guerrilla knows players' issues with the game.screenrant.com
6 Great Games That Received Bad PC Ports
PC ports aren't always perfect, and the following great game releases are a big proof of it.gamerant.com
I was obviously exaggerating with my 8 users comment. But thanks for proving my point that the number of Mac users in any given title is a rounding error compared to the PC side.
I didn't mention anything about the age of the game either. There's plenty of great older titles that never came to Mac or don't work on modern Macs, stuff like Red Alert 3, Elder Scrolls Oblivion, Max Payne, etc. I don't generally play shovelware on PC either so the fact that there's 10,000 new releases doesn't matter. What does matter is that the games I'm interested in are there. Not the number. Who cares if there's 2000+ new Mac games if you're interested in only two of them?
Was there a point to prove though? Did anyone say Mac user share is huge on Steam compared to Windows? It’s also an age-old fact most of us know. Steam Deck’s user share is 0.85% or 1.28 million and Linux has 1.23% or 1.84 million, both smaller than the Mac user base. So the number of Steam Deck/Linux users in any given title is also a rounding error compared to the Windows side, if anyone will make a point of that.
All those titles and many more run very well on Apple Silicon. You use Proton/Wine on your Steam Deck to run them, we use Crossover/Wine/GPTK/Whisky.
Many of the issues are fixed now though. I was talking about the release time.
Pointless junk measuring!
Do you know what site you're on?
How do you expect us to know if you're being serious or joking?!!? We don't know your experience with any sort of gaming, or when you're trolling, which this post seems like here.
And your point relative marlets in gaming goes both ways, given that the PC gaming market is a rounding error compared to the console market share!
So which is it? Are you posting in good faith or in bad faith?
Looking at the results from the August 2024 Steam Survey, it appears that the Mac userbase may be undersampled. Looking at the "Video Card Description" results, almost every single option's rate of change appears to be within the margin of error (whether an increase or decrease), with M3/M3 Pro being the only ones reasonably outside of said margin.
Without the ability to see the raw numbers instead of just percentages, it's hard to definitively prove this one way or the other. The other reason I think that the survey may undercount the Mac userbase is that while I received the invitation to take the survey on my gaming PC, it never showed up on my Mac, which is using the same Steam account. That would indicate the survey prompt is targeted at the specific device rather than the user account, which could skew results as well.
Steam doesn't report the sample sizes so how do you know they are within the margin of error (which I don't think they report either?).
Just saw the event for Intel Lunar Lake. World's fastest iGPU compared to what? AMD HX370 with 890M? Their top Ultra 9 288V 16% faster in gaming than 890M is about as fast as base M3 8-core GPU according to Just Josh. Dell just announced XPS 13 (9350) and they only offer at the moment Core Ultra 7 256V for $1460 with Win Pro 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. The display is 13.4” with only 1920 x 1200 resolution.
A base MBA M3 16/512 costs $1499. It has a larger display with better resolution, 13.6” 2560 x 1664 and you get 10-core GPU instead of base 8-core. M3 8c is already like Ultra 9 288V so M3 10c will outperform both Ultra 7/9 quite a bit for the same price and they say Macs are expensive.
A base MBA M3 16/512 costs $1499. It has a larger display with better resolution, 13.6” 2560 x 1664 and you get 10-core GPU instead of base 8-core. M3 8c is already like Ultra 9 288V so M3 10c will outperform both Ultra 7/9 quite a bit for the same price and they say Macs are expensive.
Last edited:
Intel is just saying it is faster than their last generation Intel Core Ultra 7 155H.
I was clearly talking about their comparison with AMD. They don't mention the AMD iGPU but HX 370 comes with AMD 890M. The base M3 8-core GPU is already about 16% faster than 890M so it's as fast as Intel's top Ultra 9 288V with Arc 140V. For basically the same price you also get M3 with 10-core GPU so it's cleary much faster than Core Ultra 7 256V with a downclocked Arc 140V iGPU.
I never had Steam asking for a hardware survey on my Macs - but it shows up on every windows machine I have.
I still think Apple will most likely focus on the mobile gaming market, since they are pretty dominant there. Mac will just get some games, that the publisher was paid by Apple to do so.