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In Japan, iPhone is old news

"I skate to where the puck in going to be, not where it has been."

Doesn't Steve's use of Gretzky's quote sound a little ironic when you consider they're using EDGE technology for the iPhone which isn't cutting edge in the US now, even less so in Europe at the end of the year, and will be positively outdated when it arrives in Japan?

I don't mean to sound overly negative, but hearing the comments about the iPhone in yesterday's financial call don't fill me with confidence. It sounds to me the iPhone's specifications were decided upon by looking at the current US market - which is so odd for a device which won't see light of day for at least 6 months, especially considering the US isn't exactly blazing a trail in this specific area.
 
whooleytoo said:
Doesn't Steve's use of Gretzky's quote sound a little ironic when you consider they're using EDGE technology for the iPhone which isn't cutting edge in the US now, even less so in Europe at the end of the year, and will be positively outdated when it arrives in Japan?

I don't mean to sound overly negative, but hearing the comments about the iPhone in yesterday's financial call don't fill me with confidence. It sounds to me the iPhone's specifications were decided upon by looking at the current US market - which is so odd for a device which won't see light of day for at least 6 months, especially considering the US isn't exactly blazing a trail in this specific area.
Click to expand...
Well, Gretzky skated to where the puck was going. He didn't he skate right past it. I mean, what's the point of making a product that's so advanced that it over shoots the marketplace? I think Apple learned a lot w/the Newton. Pretty much by all accounts the Newton was a great product. But it was a few years too soon and never caught on. Fast forward to the iPod. Apple was patient, learned from the mistakes the trailblazing companies made, waited for the market to start developing and then released the right product at the right time.

barr08 said:
Wow, didn't know that, thanks for the info!
Click to expand...
Hey, no problem. :D


Lethal
 
I'm excited about the iPhone but I will say that Japan is far more advanced when it comes to mobile phones. I realize America's mobile phone market is far behind and I've drooled over various different Japanese phones (still am by the way), but the iPhone is a totally different beastie altogether. I still think it's pretty awesome, and it will be very interesting to see what other devices Apple and Cingular make. Maybe that music will be even more beautiful. ^.^
 
I've been to Japan quite a few times in the last 6 years and the iPhone is MUCH slicker than anything they've got going on. The technology is always ahead of us as they can watch broadcast television on their phones and surf the net and everything. But the iPhone looks and works much better than anything they have.
 
juansicos said:
I think Apple is going to change the specifications when they introduce the phone in Europe and Japan. Even here, in Spain we get 3g almost everywhere and HDSPA in bigger cities and i dont know if Vodafone or Telefonica offer Edge.
OFFTOPIC: This thing works like magic with my laptop (http://tienda.vodafone.es/do/catalogo/moviles/ficha?s=todos&p=be523f390e186014010e40fae8290002)
Click to expand...
+1 Thank you for saying that.

There is no reason that Apple will not sell an iPhone that is specific to each foreign country. Even the keyboard can be changed for different languages. Nobody knows the future. And that's what makes it so exciting.
 
kashimo said:
One other issue is the language. Japanese has 11 columns of kana with 5 kana in most columns (two have 3 and one has one). You don't need spaces, you don't need capitals. So a standard phone pad actually is very accurate in getting what you want written. Many Japanese (young and old) are not very good at using a qwerty keyboard so typing with such would not be very popular with the masses. Also the iPhone in its Japanese version would have to have bilingual support. It has not been shown if this exists now, but most phones in Japan can run in Japanese or in English (switchable). I figure this will be easy as Mac OS is the best for multilingual work. The big issue is how to input text that is to the liking of the Japanese.
Click to expand...

I was think about this last night. At the moment, my wife is somewhat frustrated because her UK phone doesn't have Japanese character input (event though the Vodafone and other networks here support Japanese characters). We had hoped to use our old Japanese phones her (swap a Japanese Softbank SIM out for a UK Vodafone SIM), to allow her to continue to send SMS and mail back via her phone to folks and friends in Japan. Issue was the phones were locked, and can't be unlocked with a simple code.

For her, entering Japanese text via a QUERTY keyboard (using Roman form->Japanese) would be no different to what she does anyway when writing emails on our MBP. However, I suspect for older generation Japanese, a keypad that mimics the look of a numeric pad and allows text entry just like the current generation of phones out there would be easier. In fact, why not have both options!?!? QUERTY input or traditional Phone Keypad input method.

It's has got me thinking. As nice as the iPhone is, I wasn't planning on getting one here in the UK. But, if it had Japanese support (assuming all worldwide models were the same OS X Lite, rather than regionalised) I could be tempted (would still need to be 3G as well).
 
I looked at the iPhone when it was announced and I thought to myself, "I NEED that." The more I think about it now, I don't need it. I only use my phone to make calls not replace my computer. I guess I'm not important enough to have all the functions that iPhone will have. Of course if T-Mobile picks it up in the distant future, I'll find an excuse to buy one and in my mind I'll be IMPORTANT.:D
 
dpaanlka said:
People are not excited because of that.
Click to expand...

No, you're right. The people here in these forums would also be excited if Steve Jobs would sell his boogers for $50 p.p., and they'd immediately start to claim that Bill Gate's boogers are lame ripoffs :D
 
astarling06 said:
I looked at the iPhone when it was announced and I thought to myself, "I NEED that." The more I think about it now, I don't need it.
Click to expand...

If the iPhone was announced, and then shipped the same day, it would have been a huge success... a lot of the fanboys would not hesitate to change carriers, pay the price and get into the 'cool' wagon...

But... now the storm is over and we can see things clearly: The iPhone is not a revolutionary/innovative product. Its already old. End of story. Let's see what the iPhone 2 looks like.

PS: Sony Ericsson P990.
 
radio893fm said:
If the iPhone was announced, and then shipped the same day, it would have been a huge success... a lot of the fanboys would not hesitate to change carriers, pay the price and get into the 'cool' wagon...

But... now the storm is over and we can see things clearly: The iPhone is not a revolutionary/innovative product. Its already old. End of story. Let's see what the iPhone 2 looks like.

PS: Sony Ericsson P990.
Click to expand...

I guess you've been listening to the internet pundits too much. There is pleanty of revolution, its just not in every aspect of the phone. They didn't invent call merging but I've never seen it done as easy as it is on that demo. I still can't merge calls on my phone and i'm a Geek.
 
It is amazing reading this thread, how many people don't recognise the value of the iPhone. Well I'm not suprised, I ignored the iPod for years thinking what is the point, instead I bought the iRiver MP3 units:
- which supported more music formats,
- free to choose your favored music store,
- internal radio,
- voice recording,
- better screen for photos,
- video and this all at the same price like a mono lcd iPod without the above.

I found it doesn't work that way, unless you don't have anything else in live that counts, then you don't bother finding out:
- how to push the right button,
- how to get videos to sync
- wait endless for the device starts up,
- wait till your next picture shows after 10seconds.
etc,
My lesson, you better have less features but the features which are build in should work with a smile, if not after a month you get a fatique feeling.

For the phone, just one application that strikes me which is difficult with most phones ( I use a Nokia E61),
- My college calls me, for the exact dates of that congress in March.
- 1) Oeps, with my Nokia I have to think which button to push for my calendar, difficult because my brain is multitasking now
2) OK I found the menu button.
3) I tell my college, hold on please (taking the phone away from my ear),
4) Use joy stick to find the calendar icon
5) click joy stick to open the calender.
5) oeps I should have put my phone in handfree,
6) back to the phone screen by pushing the menu button twice,
7) hit the loadspeaker function "on",
8) then press the menu button again to go back to main menu
9) then find the calender icon again etc.

With the iPhone I expect this:
My colleges says, dates please
1) You take your phone away from your ear (it automatically goes in handsfree), you press the HOME key, the only button on the phone.
2) touch screen the calendar icon. (keep on talking and tell him the dates)
etc.
Done

Sorry guys but I like my Nokia E61, but this iPhone is from another planet.

Oh yes my nokia can do video, voice recording, MP3, photos, sms with full keyboard, 3G, Wifi, bluetooth.VOIP (which I really like), push email, internet.
 
Apple users ( especially those MacRumours users ) enjoy having their consumer freedom limited by Apple. As long as the limitation comes from Apple they are happy. If other companies do what Apple do, they would be hell to pay.

The Nokia E-Series is very good. Like you, I'm thinking - the iPhone is nothing special, apart from the GUI.

On your E61 - do you not have your Calendar on a hot button accessible from the standby screen?

Vorst said:
It is amazing reading this thread, how many people don't recognise the value of the iPhone. Well I'm not suprised, I ignored the iPod for years thinking what is the point, instead I bought the iRiver MP3 units:
- which supported more music formats,
- free to choose your favored music store,
- internal radio,
- voice recording,
- better screen for photos,
- video and this all at the same price like a mono lcd iPod without the above.

Sorry guys but I like my Nokia E61, but this iPhone is from another planet.

Oh yes my nokia can do video, voice recording, MP3, photos, sms with full keyboard, 3G, Wifi, bluetooth.VOIP (which I really like), push email, internet.
Click to expand...
 
skubish said:
I travel to Japan all the time. Those phones in Japan are no iPhone. They are clunkly, hard-to-use phones just like everywhere else.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is true, last time I went. Japanese phones do the same as what the iPhone does (and a bit more such as cash transactions - not that the iPhone wound't add that essential feature), but they don't do it *how* the iPhone does it. iPhone gets things right, usability, power, beauty, and when it hits other countries, its gonna be 3G. I can guarantee that. The whole stupid 2.5G crap is because of cingular.
 
so I'm not the only one who isn't woooooowed by the iPhone.

not such a big surprise ;-)

webbrowsing on a phone? don't care...
music on a phone? don't care...

so what do I care about??

choice in interface... easy scrolling trough my contacts would be nice
reliable phone (not one that dies on me :p)


so What do I want?

as stated on other threads and as I told my friends who are blown away by the iPhone

I would like the iPhone (or whatever it will be called after the lawsuit... not really a smart move Steve) in a light version, no need for safari or iPod but with BT, WiFi with skype functionallity so whenever I'm at home or on a WiFi network I could use it to use skype (maybe then I might be interested in Skype :p) with the great interface options, decent standby time (no mention of how that is.. color screen eats batterylife I think)


but that's my idea, so unless they lower the price, don't sell it with 2y deals I'll probaly buy another Nokia next time I need one ;-)))
I remember the look on the face of the salesguy when I asked for a reliable phone with no blabla, he really had to think again because he probably preffered to sell me just any other phone...

I like my Nokia 6100 no blabla, but I would have liked BT instead of my cabled-handsfreeset in the car...
 
the technology might be pretty old news to japan, but its the interface functunality and the looks of the iphone that make it a big deal. hardware cant measure upt to software in the end. this is all speculation that it will be released flawlessly
 
3G in a cell phone is hardly like the Newton.

Plenty of phones have 3G already.

This is a cash grab by Apple:

1. release iPhone v1 without 3G, people buy it in droves.

2. 6 months later add 3G in a revised model.

3. People buy the revised version with 3G

4. Profit!

LethalWolfe said:
Well, Gretzky skated to where the puck was going. He didn't he skate right past it. I mean, what's the point of making a product that's so advanced that it over shoots the marketplace? I think Apple learned a lot w/the Newton. Pretty much by all accounts the Newton was a great product. But it was a few years too soon and never caught on. Fast forward to the iPod. Apple was patient, learned from the mistakes the trailblazing companies made, waited for the market to start developing and then released the right product at the right time.


Hey, no problem. :D


Lethal
Click to expand...
 
shrimpdesign said:
... That means it's omptimized for a mobile device. That's not the real internet. The real internet has full size graphics, flash, and ajax. The iPhone can do all of that, and Opera Mini can't.
Click to expand...

so is it known now that the iphone web browser can handle flash? i thought that was still uncertain. ???? please be ture.
 
shrimpdesign said:
No you haven't.

Look what I found on Opera Mini's website:

That means it's omptimized for a mobile device. That's not the real internet. The real internet has full size graphics, flash, and ajax. The iPhone can do all of that, and Opera Mini can't.
Click to expand...

Actually, Opera Mini allows you to access actual webpages, sans flash. The technology they use is called Small Screen Rendering, and it does a pretty good job of scaling a full size webpage onto something you can read and navigate on your cellphone.
The whole putting it trough a server helps a lot. my default browser on my cellphone uses double the bandwith to show me simple wap sites, with Opera Mini i get actual internet.
Plus, flash IMHO has become nothing more than a means to advertize in a more annoying fashion, so Opera Mini lacking flash doesnt bother me much.
 
I always find comparing technologies between different continents especially with Japan or Asia to be rather silly. You really can't compare Japan and the US or elsewhere for that matter.

Japan has self cleaning bathrooms, with toilets that shoots water up in replacement of toilet paper... they even brought us the Hello Kitty toaster. It's a tech obsessed culture, from robots obsession to whatever gadgets. Whereas if you look at the US, we are at least a season or two behind in cellphone technologies.

My biggest beef is if the japanese companies are already making those phones in Asia, why didn't they bring it here? They could have easily pushed Cingular, Verizon or whatever and make some amazing products with their cellphones to let the user control house lighting, laundry remotely by the phone.

Fact is, I have seen these phones, I was amazed how thin and cool looking they are. They maybe technologically advanced, but the iPhone beats them in usability. Apple has always been about usablity. Look at the iPod. It is technically no where near any of those PMP coming out. But why arent they not selling like hotcakes.

Look at nokia, their phones are quite impressive spec wise... but the media management is a pain.
 
Stella said:
3G in a cell phone is hardly like the Newton.

Plenty of phones have 3G already.

This is a cash grab by Apple:

1. release iPhone v1 without 3G, people buy it in droves.

2. 6 months later add 3G in a revised model.

3. People buy the revised version with 3G

4. Profit!
Click to expand...

I strongly believe that the reason the current iPhone does not have 3G support is the lack of available network support. USA is years behind both Europe and Asia when it comes to supporting the newest features and network support.
 
kashimo said:
I think this is why they are having to wait till 2008 to release it in Japan. In its current form it would not stand up to the current market. The iPod is hugely popular but its sales in Japan have actually slowed due to the market for handsets that can download music. Japanese don't like using credit cards online (lots of really bad scams have happened) so the iTunes store is not doing as well as they would have liked. They introduced the iTunes cards and sell them at convenience stores. Even there, they are not selling many. The iTunes library in Japan lacks Sony labels as Sony has their own dowload-to-phone service and they want to control that sector. Many of my friends still rent CDs and copy the music to their iPods as the really popular groups (Sony and associate company labels) are not available.

The GPS feature would be a huge hit in Japan. We have it in many phones now and they have been used by parents to track their children on their way home from school (really scary things have happened so parents demanded this feature).

The phone has to be 3G, hard not to be in a country that pushed for all markets to go that direction. I live in the middle of no-where and I have 3G.

One other issue is the language. Japanese has 11 columns of kana with 5 kana in most columns (two have 3 and one has one). You don't need spaces, you don't need capitals. So a standard phone pad actually is very accurate in getting what you want written. Many Japanese (young and old) are not very good at using a qwerty keyboard so typing with such would not be very popular with the masses. Also the iPhone in its Japanese version would have to have bilingual support. It has not been shown if this exists now, but most phones in Japan can run in Japanese or in English (switchable). I figure this will be easy as Mac OS is the best for multilingual work. The big issue is how to input text that is to the liking of the Japanese.

Another feature is TV. Until Apple gets some deals to sell Japanese TV programs and movies on iTunes, they are going to have to put in a TV tuner. Not too uncommon not to see people watching TV off their keitai (cells) on trains and in restaurants.

Finally a HUGE item would be an IC chip. If I go down to the local Circle K, I don't need my wallet. I just swipe my phone over a little reader and the bill is attached to my monthly statement. On Tokyo, Osaka and now Nagoya area trains people use IC phones as their train passes. You can also use IC enabled phones to check-in and board domestic ANA flights...truely ticketless.

As you can see Apple will have a lot to do in the next year to make a phone that will be useful for even the "target market". The interface and ease of use will be nice. But the overall basic functions will be very important to making sales in Japan. The iPod created a large halo effect in the US...didn't do so much in Japan. The iPhone has the potential of creating a halo effect in Japan that Apple needs.
Click to expand...



if apple doesnt do all that, then i could see the iphone ending up like the newton. sometimes apple just doesnt deliver. :(
 
Stella said:
Apple users ( especially those MacRumours users ) enjoy having their consumer freedom limited by Apple. As long as the limitation comes from Apple they are happy. If other companies do what Apple do, they would be hell to pay.

The Nokia E-Series is very good. Like you, I'm thinking - the iPhone is nothing special, apart from the GUI.

On your E61 - do you not have your Calendar on a hot button accessible from the standby screen?
Click to expand...

Yes I do, but the hot button is not available during phone call.
So it is a pain to go to another function during a phone call. Very annoying.
Sorry the UI is the most important part of the phone for me.
 
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