Intel HD 3000 wow...

[soapsudz]

The Samsung has a 1.4-GHz Intel Core i5 2537M CPU with HD3000 graphics and a 13.3" screen running at 1366x768. It's a bit like combining the internals of the smaller MBA with the larger screen.

Looking at the test results, the Samsung has the edge when it comes to CPU tasks. But check out the graphics:
3DMark06: Samsung 2188, MBA 11" 4290, MBA 13" 4611
WoW autodetect: Samsung 14fps, MBA 11" 48fps, MBA 13" 56fps
WoW native: Samsung 7fps, MBA 11" 31fps, MBA 13" 24fps

I don't know what WoW settings were used but 7fps is far from playable. I can wait a bit longer for number-crunching tasks but if you don't get enough fps, there's no way to play

 

[dsio]

The Samsung has a 1.4-GHz Intel Core i5 2537M CPU with HD3000 graphics and a 13.3" screen running at 1366x768. It's a bit like combining the internals of the smaller MBA with the larger screen.

Looking at the test results, the Samsung has the edge when it comes to CPU tasks. But check out the graphics:
3DMark06: Samsung 2188, MBA 11" 4290, MBA 13" 4611
WoW autodetect: Samsung 14fps, MBA 11" 48fps, MBA 13" 56fps
WoW native: Samsung 7fps, MBA 11" 31fps, MBA 13" 24fps

I don't know what WoW settings were used but 7fps is far from playable. I can wait a bit longer for number-crunching tasks but if you don't get enough fps, there's no way to play

Thats pretty meaningless. The chip in that laptop is the older version of the ULV Sandy Bridge, released at the start of the year, and is running under DirectX which is known to be a weak-point in the current HD3000 drivers. WoW under Win7 on my MBP was about 40% slower than under OSX as the Mac OpenGL drivers are just that much better developed.

Under OSX, Cataclysm is extremely playable, 50+ fps with well selected settings on the 13" MBP (mixture of low and high settings depending on whether the setting is GPU or CPU dependant).

 

[Mandork]

My current laptop has an intel 4500 GMA, and i am able to do some light gaming on it. hopefully an underclocked intel 3000 hd rumoured to be in the air will be able to do the same when the air's unplugged? Or only once plugged in and using turboboost it will be able to deliver?

 

[Scottsdale]

At one point the earth was flat too, times change. You had an old intel IGP once that sucked, welcome to the club, so did every other laptop owner on the planet. It has absolutely no bearing on the current discussion.



You were unhappy that your first MBA overheated and ran too hot, but you want Apple to add a discrete graphics chip with a TDP of 10W or more to a chip that already has a TDP of 17W with the integrated graphics on die?



So now you're getting a dramatically faster CPU, as well as an integrated 3D card with performance on par with the outgoing 320M within 17W when previously you had a Core2Duo which ran at 17W combined with a second chip that required more cooling at over 10W.


The 9400M was a piece of junk, the HD3000 beats it by a very large margin, if you want to make up nonsense like this to support your position, try to at least make it vague enough that you can't be called out on it.

If you think SB is only slightly faster than a Core2, you need to do some more research, claiming the IGP is terribly inferior points to that as well.


As someone that does own one, I can tell you that this entire paragraph is false.

The GPU does not cause "lag" when connected to an external screen. I'm running one right now at 2560x1600 off a mini-displayport -> DVI-D DL adapter.

Apple has been pushing the envelope in terms of performance per watt, battery life, and compact form factors for the last several years, this is exactly the type of thing they would go for. The fact is AMD is also doing the same thing, integrating Radeon IGPs into multi core CPUs for small form factors.


I'm sorry but that's just hysteria.



I doubt it.

I think you need to go read a little more about the Intel IGP HD 3000 and how the ULV chip will fare vs. the standard voltage used in the 13" MBP. The ULV SB is what all of the sites are mentioning for the MBAs... and they're not clarifying that the 13" will have a different LV CPU.

I will not sit and throw back words all day, but I think you need to read up a little more or even just go to the 13" MBP forum information on what happens with the Intel IGP even when connecting an external ACD.

All will be realized when the new MBAs are introduced.

The Samsung has a 1.4-GHz Intel Core i5 2537M CPU with HD3000 graphics and a 13.3" screen running at 1366x768. It's a bit like combining the internals of the smaller MBA with the larger screen.

Looking at the test results, the Samsung has the edge when it comes to CPU tasks. But check out the graphics:
3DMark06: Samsung 2188, MBA 11" 4290, MBA 13" 4611
WoW autodetect: Samsung 14fps, MBA 11" 48fps, MBA 13" 56fps
WoW native: Samsung 7fps, MBA 11" 31fps, MBA 13" 24fps

I don't know what WoW settings were used but 7fps is far from playable. I can wait a bit longer for number-crunching tasks but if you don't get enough fps, there's no way to play

This has been my point ever since the 13" MBP was released. The C2D with Nvidia 320m is a well rounded Mac, and the Intel IGP seriously limits certain games, apps, and even performance when connecting a 27" ACD. The 11" MBA flies even when attached to a 27" ACD.

The Intel HD 3000 is not a standalone GPU, and people don't realize that it's under clocked severely in ULV SB CPUs. If it were the same IGP as the 13" MBP it would be bad, because the 13" MBA has a higher resolution display to drive. But the thing is the 13" MBAs will get either LV and possibly even ULV CPUs with a much poorer performing HD 3000.

I am not going to jump on these new MBAs. It will probably take me a few months of reading real-world reviews and information about real-world performance from people using the apps and etc that I use on a daily basis. I don't have a lot of faith. I also believe the backlit keyboard, upgraded RAM, upgraded Flash was all part of the plan when the last MBA was introduced as Apple knew it was going to have a heck of a setback when it had to lose the Nvidia GPU.

For as much crap as C2D gets from those who want the latest and greatest CPU, I don't think they realize that it still does everything just a little slower... but the loss of the Nvidia GPU means complete lack of ability to do things the October 2010 MBAs are both incredibly capable at. Yes, it's an ultraportable, but the Nvidia GPU is a heck of an alternative to Intel's worthless IGP.

I hope I am wrong and Apple pulls a miracle with some amazing drivers, and it solves all of the problems with the Intel HD 3000 on the 13" MBP at the same time... and the ULV CPUs will somehow have an Intel HD 3000 that is over clocked as to not be a complete dog. However, I am expecting the worst, and I have very little real world hope because I have done a lot of research on it.

 

[dsio]

I think you need to go read a little more about the Intel IGP HD 3000 and how the ULV chip will fare vs. the standard voltage used in the 13" MBP. The ULV SB is what all of the sites are mentioning for the MBAs... and they're not clarifying that the 13" will have a different LV CPU.

I will not sit and throw back words all day, but I think you need to read up a little more or even just go to the 13" MBP forum information on what happens with the Intel IGP even when connecting an external ACD.

All will be realized when the new MBAs are introduced.

You still don't seem to get it, I don't need to read a forum to find out about how the 13" MBP performs, I'm sitting in front of one right now...

Intel's just released the new ULV chips for June, the 2677M and 2637M, we already know exactly what they are, they run at 350Mhz base clock and 1200Mhz full clock. The MPB i5 runs at 1100Mhz while the MBP i7 runs at 1300Mhz.

Here they are right here:
http://ark.intel.com/products/54617/Intel-Core-i7-2677M-Processor-(4M-Cache-1_70-GHz)
http://ark.intel.com/products/54618/Intel-Core-i7-2637M-Processor-(4M-Cache-1_60-GHz)

All Sandy Bridge chips, no matter whether they are normal, low voltage, or ultra low voltage use the exact same HD 3000 design, with 12 execution units. The only difference is the clockspeed, and the two new ULV chips have theirs clocked above the current i5 MBP 13" and below the current i7 MBP 13".

 

[Bonsai1214]

what they lose in gaming capability, they gain in video related things that aren't gaming. at least that's my understanding from reading about them.

and yeah, minecraft is actually pretty demanding if you play with full draw distance and stuff.

 

[Scottsdale]

You still don't seem to get it, I don't need to read a forum to find out about how the 13" MBP performs, I'm sitting in front of one right now...

Intel's just released the new ULV chips for June, the 2677M and 2637M, we already know exactly what they are, they run at 350Mhz base clock and 1200Mhz full clock. The MPB i5 runs at 1100Mhz while the MBP i7 runs at 1300Mhz.

Here they are right here:
http://ark.intel.com/products/54617/Intel-Core-i7-2677M-Processor-(4M-Cache-1_70-GHz)
http://ark.intel.com/products/54618/Intel-Core-i7-2637M-Processor-(4M-Cache-1_60-GHz)

All Sandy Bridge chips, no matter whether they are normal, low voltage, or ultra low voltage use the exact same HD 3000 design, with 12 execution units. The only difference is the clockspeed, and the two new ULV chips have theirs clocked above the current i5 MBP 13" and below the current i7 MBP 13".

And I use the MBA with Nvidia GPU connected to a 27" ACD daily... and my friend uses a 13" MBP. We have tried it connected to my 27" ACD and it experienced INCREDIBLY noticeable lag even with simple things. Maybe drivers in 10.6.8 have helped, but anybody can go read what I am talking about in the MBP forums too.

Yes, the ULV SB introduced last month was probably specifically for Apple and the MBA. Yes, it's a little better when running at max clock speed, but it's still not going to perform up to par with a standard voltage SB like in the 13" MBP. You can argue it all you want, but we can just wait for the numbers which will compare the exact same OS version and both 13" MBP, and all versions of next generation MBAs. I will bet money right now that the MBA fares worse than the 13" MBP. It is common sense... I am not even talking about using Windows to compare, which has a much better OpenGL performance system too... I am talking about waiting for the real numbers, and real world results when the MBA is updated next Friday.

 

[eemzah]

I find the Intel HD 3000 doesn't quite cut 1080p MKVs as smooth as I would like it to be. Sometimes, I get glitchy or stuck videos when I view them on my 24" ACD.

 

[dsio]

And I use the MBA with Nvidia GPU connected to a 27" ACD daily... and my friend uses a 13" MBP. We have tried it connected to my 27" ACD and it experienced INCREDIBLY noticeable lag even with simple things. Maybe drivers in 10.6.8 have helped, but anybody can go read what I am talking about in the MBP forums too.

Actually the more significant change is that the firmware for the Thunderbolt controller which handles the displayport adapter has been updated recently. If there's anything that could cause latency when connected to an external display, its that controller, not the GPU. That doesn't fit in with your crusade, but it does actually make sense...

Yes, the ULV SB introduced last month was probably specifically for Apple and the MBA. Yes, it's a little better when running at max clock speed, but it's still not going to perform up to par with a standard voltage SB like in the 13" MBP.

So... it hits 1200mhz at full speed rather than 1100Mhz on the i5 MBP, but you think it being a ULV somehow makes 1200 lower than 1100? The tradeoff that was made in making it a ULV processor was the CPU cores were clocked down almost a whole 1Ghz off the MBP's i7's peak. There's only an 8W difference between the ULV and the normal MBP 13" i5, the ULV runs 17W the normal chip at 25W. If it ran on 10W you'd be onto something but this isn't the case here.

You can argue it all you want, but we can just wait for the numbers which will compare the exact same OS version and both 13" MBP, and all versions of next generation MBAs. I will bet money right now that the MBA fares worse than the 13" MBP. It is common sense... I am not even talking about using Windows to compare, which has a much better OpenGL performance system too... I am talking about waiting for the real numbers, and real world results when the MBA is updated next Friday.

Actually the Windows OpenGL performance is much worse than the Mac OSX performance at present, the drivers need work on that platform, and traditionally the focus has always been on DirectX under Windows anyway.

 

[KillerTree]

How is the HD 3000 THIS bad?

 

[ri0ku]

How is the HD 3000 THIS bad?

Answer = Intel

Can I has cookie now?

 

[hcho3]

Not even backlit keyboard is going to make me want to buy a laptop that has only intel HD3000 graphic inside...

Intel HD 3000 is a huge step backward. I don't see this upgrade as a upgrade. It's a trade off.

 

[sporadicMotion]

How is the HD 3000 THIS bad?

That is pretty bad.... but that's also an i5 and it's GPU Turbo boost maxes out at 900 MHz (not that 2-300 MHz is going to make up that much ground). We're just gonna have to wait an see. Funny thing is I still don't care. I still want an i7 not a Core2Old. Glad I'm not a gamer.

 

[mrklaw]

I heard that the HD3000 was designed by BP and Rupert Murdoch. Any truth to those rumors?

Seriously, people should calm down a bit. Its like the HD3000 killed your dog or something.

You want the 320 so badly go and buy the air in the stores right now. I'm curious to understand how it'll compare to current chips and looking forward to benchmarks, but this bitching and sniping is a PITA

 

[sporadicMotion]

I heard that the HD3000 was designed by BP and Rupert Murdoch. Any truth to those rumors?

Seriously, people should calm down a bit. Its like the HD3000 killed your dog or something.

You want the 320 so badly go and buy the air in the stores right now. I'm curious to understand how it'll compare to current chips and looking forward to benchmarks, but this bitching and sniping is a PITA

Steve Jobs kicked my dog. It's still alive though.

 

[Acorn]

this whole thread made me lol then i kinda peed a little.

 

[Flagg]

I heard that the HD3000 was designed by BP and Rupert Murdoch. Any truth to those rumors?

Seriously, people should calm down a bit. Its like the HD3000 killed your dog or something.

You want the 320 so badly go and buy the air in the stores right now. I'm curious to understand how it'll compare to current chips and looking forward to benchmarks, but this bitching and sniping is a PITA

For my own personal needs, this wouldn't be an issue if I were keeping the laptop only for a year and didn't think about video editing and playing the occasional WoW. Also, whether or not I'll use it all the time, when I pay the Porsche price, I want Porsche-quality parts.

I've been looking forward to getting an Air as a compact mobile 11" lightweight computing solution for months now. Hearing that I will either have to make a major concession with the vid card or revert to having to deal with Windows' annoying big brother security popups and nagware (and lug around the heavier m11x or similar) for another three years makes me a sad panda.

 

[Scottsdale]

For my own personal needs, this wouldn't be an issue if I were keeping the laptop only for a year and didn't think about video editing and playing the occasional WoW. Also, whether or not I'll use it all the time, when I pay the Porsche price, I want Porsche-quality parts.

I've been looking forward to getting an Air as a compact mobile 11" lightweight computing solution for months now. Hearing that I will either have to make a major concession with the vid card or revert to having to deal with Windows' annoying big brother security popups and nagware (and lug around the heavier m11x or similar) for another three years makes me a sad panda.

This is my point too. I don't want to take a step backwards in 2011 to parts that are inferior to MBAs from the last few years. From Apple's continued use of C2D to date, and the rumors of all of the other upgraded parts, it seems obvious Apple didn't want to take this step. However, the solution is an AMD discrete GPU, and that would cost Apple money. It is just like FCPX and the Pro products losing capabilities. Apple is going with making larger margins rather than providing the best user experience with the bet components.

I really hope Apple has a viable long term strategy that bridges the gap in graphics even if it's only at the desktop with an external GPU via Thunderbolt.

 

[Oppressed]

Why do you think the new MBA has all these fancy "new" features such as backlit keyboard, 4 gigs of RAM standard, 128 GB base SSD, and double SSD speed? To both distract people from the downgrade in GPU and push those people who were hesitant of buying the refresh to the other side despite the GPU. Thats their "bridge" for this problem, and in all honesty it is just a bandaid. All we can do is hope for a resolution come ivy bridge.

 

[Flagg]

However, the solution is an AMD discrete GPU, and that would cost Apple money. It is just like FCPX and the Pro products losing capabilities. Apple is going with making larger margins rather than providing the best user experience with the bet components.

Does it have to be an AMD? I mean, the m11x has a GREAT card from nVidia while also sporting an i5-7, although, yes, it's a heck of a lot bulkier and has more room for it than the wafer that is the Air.

I've never seen Apple have significant problems with compromise, as they, unlike mass-producing computer companies on the Windows side, are not afraid to cater to a higher-brow, above the masses crowd that is willing to fork over the extra price for higher quality. Apple could easily still make the profits they want while still passing on the extra cost.

There's no 100% guarantee for anything until it is announced. If I run off and buy a Dell today, Apple'll put in a discrete card on one of the builds just because that's how things work out for me. So I'll wait and condemn that hope in the process

 

[drewyboy]

Why do you think the new MBA has all these fancy "new" features such as backlit keyboard, 4 gigs of RAM standard, 128 GB base SSD, and double SSD speed? To both distract people from the downgrade in GPU and push those people who were hesitant of buying the refresh to the other side despite the GPU. Thats their "bridge" for this problem, and in all honesty it is just a bandaid. All we can do is hope for a resolution come ivy bridge.

Hate to break it to you, Ivy bridge isn't going to be much better. Intel is claiming 20% increase which we all know we'll probably see half that increase in real world. So instead of gaming at 22fps, you get 24.5 fps! Wow. Truth is, we probably wont see good graphics in the MBA for another 1.5-2 years, so that is why I'm biting with this. Next revision is going to probably be case change and ivy bridge. That's about it. Apple tends to do case change, then spec update, case change, spec update, etc. I really don't think you're going to get much for waiting for ivy bridge.

 

[Oppressed]

Hate to break it to you, Ivy bridge isn't going to be much better. Intel is claiming 20% increase which we all know we'll probably see half that increase in real world. So instead of gaming at 22fps, you get 24.5 fps! Wow. Truth is, we probably wont see good graphics in the MBA for another 1.5-2 years, so that is why I'm biting with this. Next revision is going to probably be case change and ivy bridge. That's about it. Apple tends to do case change, then spec update, case change, spec update, etc. I really don't think you're going to get much for waiting for ivy bridge.

If that were the case who would buy it?

 

[tbobmccoy]

If that were the case who would buy it?

Because Mac owners aren't traditionally gamers... following this, the MBA is NOT a gaming machine. Oy. This thread just won't die. Buy a 2010 if you want, as for me and mine, we'll take a 2011 model.

 

[KillerTree]

This is my point too. I don't want to take a step backwards in 2011 to parts that are inferior to MBAs from the last few years. From Apple's continued use of C2D to date, and the rumors of all of the other upgraded parts, it seems obvious Apple didn't want to take this step. However, the solution is an AMD discrete GPU, and that would cost Apple money. It is just like FCPX and the Pro products losing capabilities. Apple is going with making larger margins rather than providing the best user experience with the bet components.

I really hope Apple has a viable long term strategy that bridges the gap in graphics even if it's only at the desktop with an external GPU via Thunderbolt.

Apple isn't going for larger margins. Intel forced Nvidia out of the integrated graphics business.

 

[drewyboy]

If that were the case who would buy it?

Well, what you do get is probably a case redesign, ivy (native quad core, hyperthreading = 8 cores on mobile chips!). And this is what makes me think sometimes not everything talked about is going to be included in this upgrade. I mean... cpu, thunderbolt, ram, ssd, backlight... what's going to be saved for next one? Cpu, faster ssd, and redesign? I tend to think we're not going to get one of the following: ram, ssd, or backlight.