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Figs

macrumors newbie
Mar 1, 2011
6
0
That's just it. Then why buy the MacBook Air? The games being used as examples show that they both suck. Why not buy an ultraportable that's designed to play or actually has the grunt to do it? Only apple fanboyism will stop someone from doing this.

Alienware M11x is designed for this... why not get that?

You people are the reason why companies like Apple can decide to throw inferior parts into their products without taking any heat. We should never accept a downgrade in a newer product no matter how marginal. Why is the argument still that "people who want to game should buy a gaming computer."

The fact of the matter is if people start to accept minimal downgrades like this, and in fact defend them, then it will only get worse and worse. Incrementally, Apple will start rolling out "refreshes" with more features and power stripped away only to have their fans blindly defend them. They do this with every product, leaving out key features in their releases, only to tout them as "new features" in the next generations. There's no reason why the iPad 2 doesn't have a retina display, or why the iPhone didn't get multitasking until iOS 4.

You people need to remember, companies will try to do as little as possible to squeeze out as much as possible. If you continue to defend and encourage them through this practice, the only ones who will suffer is you, while they sit back and laugh their way to the bank.
 

tbobmccoy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2007
969
219
Austin, TX
You people are the reason why companies like Apple can decide to throw inferior parts into their products without taking any heat. We should never accept a downgrade in a newer product no matter how marginal. Why is the argument still that "people who want to game should buy a gaming computer."

The fact of the matter is if people start to accept minimal downgrades like this, and in fact defend them, then it will only get worse and worse. Incrementally, Apple will start rolling out "refreshes" with more features and power stripped away only to have their fans blindly defend them. They do this with every product, leaving out key features in their releases, only to tout them as "new features" in the next generations. There's no reason why the iPad 2 doesn't have a retina display, or why the iPhone didn't get multitasking until iOS 4.

You people need to remember, companies will try to do as little as possible to squeeze out as much as possible. If you continue to defend and encourage them through this practice, the only ones who will suffer is you, while they sit back and laugh their way to the bank.

You do realize this is only a downgrade for some users, not all, and that there are several benefits to the HD3000, right? The sky isn't falling, the HD3000 handles tasks other than gaming better than the 320m, and the argument of buying a gaming computer if you want to game is still valid. MBAs are ultraportables that can get by on mediocre settings for games, and that won't change in the refresh.

Now for the OT iPad having a retina display, manufacturing and LCD prices are what prevent it. No one wants a 1000 iPad.
 

sporadicMotion

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2008
1,111
23
Your girlfriends place
If your desire is to play games from ten years ago and the Atom netbook satisfies your need then who is to say you are wrong?

Valid. The issue is why buy it knowing it's not going to do what you want.

If people want to play TF2 or SC2 and the MBA works just fine for these game then who is to say they are wrong?

Nobody... there is a difference between buying the Air to do something and wanting to load a game up once per week while on the road. Fine. Don't buy this as a gaming machine. If you are thinking more about gaming when you purchase, don't get it... you will be making the wrong decision and will end up on MacRumors complaining.

If people want to play Crysis 2 or Witcher 2, then I'm sure that they will find a machine thats right for them.

I would certainly hope so. :p

Are these people who play games? Yes, then they are all gamers.

No. I play the odd game maybe once a week or so. I am not a gamer. Gamers actually care about their gaming experience.

Do I think the MBA is meant for hardcore gamers? No.

It's not meant for any game enthusiast.

I do not find full sized notebooks comfortable to carry around on personal and business trips. Does that mean I cannot play games on my trips?

In short: Not everything is black and white.

I'm with you here. I hate 15 inch laptops in the air and any extra weight when navigating an airport. Even the 13" MBP can get cumbersome after some time.
 

42streetsdown

macrumors 6502a
Feb 12, 2011
655
3
Gallifrey, 5124
You people are the reason why companies like Apple can decide to throw inferior parts into their products without taking any heat. We should never accept a downgrade in a newer product no matter how marginal. Why is the argument still that "people who want to game should buy a gaming computer."

The fact of the matter is if people start to accept minimal downgrades like this, and in fact defend them, then it will only get worse and worse. Incrementally, Apple will start rolling out "refreshes" with more features and power stripped away only to have their fans blindly defend them. They do this with every product, leaving out key features in their releases, only to tout them as "new features" in the next generations. There's no reason why the iPad 2 doesn't have a retina display, or why the iPhone didn't get multitasking until iOS 4.

You people need to remember, companies will try to do as little as possible to squeeze out as much as possible. If you continue to defend and encourage them through this practice, the only ones who will suffer is you, while they sit back and laugh their way to the bank.

Apple doesn't have much choice with the Air. Space is limited, they can't fit dedicated graphics.
 

sporadicMotion

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2008
1,111
23
Your girlfriends place
You people are the reason why companies like Apple can decide to throw inferior parts into their products without taking any heat. We should never accept a downgrade in a newer product no matter how marginal. Why is the argument still that "people who want to game should buy a gaming computer."

The fact of the matter is if people start to accept minimal downgrades like this, and in fact defend them, then it will only get worse and worse. Incrementally, Apple will start rolling out "refreshes" with more features and power stripped away only to have their fans blindly defend them. They do this with every product, leaving out key features in their releases, only to tout them as "new features" in the next generations. There's no reason why the iPad 2 doesn't have a retina display, or why the iPhone didn't get multitasking until iOS 4.

You people need to remember, companies will try to do as little as possible to squeeze out as much as possible. If you continue to defend and encourage them through this practice, the only ones who will suffer is you, while they sit back and laugh their way to the bank.

If the parts are inferior and don't meet your needs don't buy it. You people that continue to buy products that don't meet the need anyways are the ones that "allow" the low end to be brought in.

I buy products that suit my needs. Period. I've been buying my Macs since '92. Guess what? The times when a Mac hasn't been a suitable option, I've bought something else!

WOW! What a concept.

Listen kid, after you've had a class in economics and have half a clue how things work come back and try to bark up that tree again. See you in 15 years.
 
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Oppressed

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2010
1,265
10
I buy products that suit my needs. Period. I've been buying my Macs since '92. Guess what? The times when a Mac hasn't been a suitable option, I've bought something else!

Thats great to hear! If people want a thin and light laptop to travel with and also want to play a few games on it from time to time knowing that said games will not run on full detail/FPS then can the MBA suit those needs?

Also based on your previous post, as to what classifies a person as a "gamer" is purely opinionated at this point, and the argument can only degrade from here.

What the biggest concern here in this thread is not weather or not the MBA is a gaming machine or not, but the fact that the few and select people out there who fit the category above have to face a downgrade to a function they once had.

Reminds me of the original backlit keyboard on the MBA, and the refresh didn't have a backlit keyboard. Should these people suck it up under the idea that "if you wanted a backlit keyboard then get something else" opinion? No, it was a downgrade in the refresh. The same thing is happening again.
 

Figs

macrumors newbie
Mar 1, 2011
6
0
If the parts are inferior and don't meet your needs don't buy it. You "figpuckers" that continue to buy products that don't meet the need anyways are the ones that "allow" the low end to be brought in.

I buy products that suit my needs. Period. I've been buying my Macs since '92. Guess what? The times when a Mac hasn't been a suitable option, I've bought something else!

WOW! What a concept.

Listen kid, after you've had a class in economics and have half a clue how things work come back and try to bark up that tree again. See you in 15 years.

Maybe you could look at the facts and not only the assumptions you so boldly make. Where did I state that I buy any of these products? The only Apple product I have is the iPhone 4, because it is a great product. I'm simply stating how people will blindly accept whatever a highly commercialized company will put out despite obvious deficiencies. I've been eying a MBA for some time now but have strayed due to some inadequacies.

I can't help but smile as you lecture me about the basics of economics, I just pointed out the very backbone of the company's economic principle: meet the needs, nothing more.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here, some people seem to love to argue for the sake of having their voice heard. There's no obscurity in the fact that companies will try and do as little as possible to keep them at the top, that's all I was pointing out. Not every post has to be an act of belligerence.
 

sporadicMotion

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2008
1,111
23
Your girlfriends place
Maybe you could look at the facts and not only the assumptions you so boldly make. Where did I state that I buy any of these products? The only Apple product I have is the iPhone 4, because it is a great product. I'm simply stating how people will blindly accept whatever a highly commercialized company will put out despite obvious deficiencies. I've been eying a MBA for some time now but have strayed due to some inadequacies.

I didn't assume you bought anything. I made a play on words with your name.

I can't help but smile as you lecture me about the basics of economics, I just pointed out the very backbone of the company's economic principle: meet the needs, nothing more.

This just proves you've missed the point. You say there's no reason Apple couldn't have put "retina" displays in the iPad2. The cost of the panel would have made the iPad more expensive and people would have whined because they couldn't afford it.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here, some people seem to love to argue for the sake of having their voice heard. There's no obscurity in the fact that companies will try and do as little as possible to keep them at the top, that's all I was pointing out. Not every post has to be an act of belligerence.

I don't particularly care to be honest and don't poke at me for "arguing" when you're doing the same thing... that's just a silly thing to do hypocrite. It's just unfortunate when bad and misinformation is posted and can cause confusion to the consumers who this kind of "issue" doesn't apply and they don't bother with a product that could very well have met their needs just because a 10 year old wants gaming power.

Belligerence deserves belligerence. Re-read your first post.

Whining on the internet doesn't bring upgrades and changes. A segment of the market ignoring a system makes an organization rethink a product. In a way we're in agreement but for polar reasons. This is why I'm saying to the whiners. Don't buy it. Have a current one and it MEETS YOUR NEEDS... then who cares? Do you need the new one?

But nothing will change, children will whine because Steve Jobs doesn't live under their bed to exclusively build custom systems on demand that are exactly what they visualize as "their perfect apple"... ya know, think different... like everyone else.

Oppressed said:
Thats great to hear! If people want a thin and light laptop to travel with and also want to play a few games on it from time to time knowing that said games will not run on full detail/FPS then can the MBA suit those needs?

Yes. Please re-read and understand my perspective better.

Also based on your previous post, as to what classifies a person as a "gamer" is purely opinionated at this point, and the argument can only degrade from here.

Is it? Websters Dictionary says:

: a player who is game; especially : an athlete who relishes competition

: a person who plays games; especially : a person who regularly plays computer or video games

What the biggest concern here in this thread is not weather or not the MBA is a gaming machine or not, but the fact that the few and select people out there who fit the category above have to face a downgrade to a function they once had.

No they don't. They HAVE to buy a new Apple? What's wrong with their current ones?

Reminds me of the original backlit keyboard on the MBA, and the refresh didn't have a backlit keyboard. Should these people suck it up under the idea that "if you wanted a backlit keyboard then get something else" opinion? No, it was a downgrade in the refresh. The same thing is happening again.

That's Apple completely omitting a function. There's a difference. I too would like a backlit keyboard but once again... don't buy it if you need a light up keyboard.
 
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IJBrekke

macrumors 6502a
Oct 24, 2009
700
877
Long Beach, CA
Everyone just has their panties in a knot because the Air has gotten so close to what they ACTUALLY want. Sure, the HD3000 might not make the Air a gaming rig, but it's gotten good enough where everyone can PICTURE a kick-ass ultralight functioning in this way.

In a couple years, hopefully we'll have MBPs this thin and light, but just as powerful.
 

Oppressed

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2010
1,265
10
Is it? Websters Dictionary says:

: a player who is game; especially : an athlete who relishes competition

: a person who plays games; especially : a person who regularly plays computer or video games

Yes, and what constitutes as regular? Once a week, three times a week, or everyday from 6 pm to 1 am like some players in MMO's? You may say everyday most of the night and I might say a few times a week. Do these gamers have different needs from their machine? Yes, and the MBA might be perfect for one and an alienware might be good for the other.

No they don't. They HAVE to buy a new Apple? What's wrong with their current ones?

No one HAS to buy from Apple of course. Its just that if a person currently has the MBA and was happy with it and wants to upgrade their computer then they might move to a different company. Where they get mad is the fact that they have to take such a step.

That's Apple completely omitting a function. There's a difference. I too would like a backlit keyboard but once again... don't buy it if you need a light up keyboard.

A non backlit keyboard is a downgrade from a backlit keyboard. The basic component of a keyboard is still there. A HD 3000 is a downgrade from a 320m. The basic component of an integrated graphics processor is still there. If they don't want to take the downgrade they might have to switch companies and again its that step that is upsetting people.

I enjoy thin and light laptops greatly and if the Samsung series 9 performed better at games then I would have bought that in a heart beat. Do I play games enough to warrant sacrificing the thin and light for power like an alienware m11x? No I don't. Thats just my opinion.
 

sporadicMotion

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2008
1,111
23
Your girlfriends place
Yes, and what constitutes as regular? Once a week, three times a week, or everyday from 6 pm to 1 am like some players in MMO's? You may say everyday most of the night and I might say a few times a week. Do these gamers have different needs from their machine? Yes, and the MBA might be perfect for one and an alienware might be good for the other.

Let's get a little more official then :rolleyes:

Wikipedia:Gamer said:
Types of gamers
In the United States, the average video game player is 35 and has been playing video games for over 12 years.[2] In the UK, the average video game player is over 23 years old, has played video games for over 10 years, and spends around 12.6 hours a week playing video games.[3] The term "gamer" is composed of several subgroups.

[edit]Casual gamer
A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited. Casual gamers tend to play games designed for ease of gameplay and don't spend much time playing more involved games. The genres that casual gamers play vary, and they might not own a specific video game console to play their games.[4][5] Casual gaming demographics vary greatly from those of traditional computer games, as the typical casual gamer is older and more predominantly female.[6] One casual gamer subset is the "fitness gamer", who plays motion-based exercise games.[7]

[edit]Hardcore gamer
Hardcore gamers prefer to take significant time and practice on games, and tend to play more involved games that require larger amounts of time to complete or master. Hardcore gamers may take part in Video game culture. Competition is another defining characteristic of hardcore gamers, who often compete in organized tournaments, leagues, or ranked play integrated into the game proper. There are many subtypes of hardcore gamers based on the style of game, gameplay preference, hardware platform, and other preferences.

[edit]Pro-gamer
Professional gamers play video games for money.[8] Whether a professional gamer is a subtype of the hardcore gamer largely depends on the degree to which a professional gamer is financially dependent upon the income derived from gaming. So far as a professional gamer is financially dependent upon gaming, the time spent playing is no longer "leisure" time. In countries of Asia, particularly South Korea and Japan, professional gamers are sponsored by large companies and can earn more than $100,000USD a year, in addition to the following that some obtain.[9] In the United States, Major League Gaming has contracted Electronic Sports Gamers with $250,000USD yearly deals.[10]

[edit]Newbie
Main article: Newbie
Newbie, or "noob", is a slang term for a novice or newcomer to a certain game, or to gaming in general.[11][12] It can have derogatory connotations, but is also often used for descriptive purposes only, without a value judgment. Two derived terms are "newb", a beginner who is willing to learn; and "noob", a derogatory name (an alternate spelling for n00b).

[edit]Retrogamer
Main article: Retrogaming
A retrogamer is a gamer preferring playing and collecting retro games - older computer, video, and arcade games. The term retrogamer is used mostly in the United Kingdom and Europe, while the terms classic gamer, or old-school gamer are more prevalent in the United States. The games are played either on the original hardware, on modern hardware via console emulation, or on modern hardware via ports or compilations.[13] Some retrogamers are in the business of refurbishing old games, particularly arcade cabinets. Some even make their own arcade cabinets.

[edit]Girl gamer
Main article: Girl gamer
A girl gamer is any female who regularly engages in playing video games. According to a study conducted by the Entertainment Software Association in 2009, 40% of the game playing population is female, and women 18 or older now comprise 34% of all gamers. Also, the percentage of women now playing online has risen to 43%, up 4% from 2004. The same study shows that 48% of game purchasers are female.[14]

No one HAS to buy from Apple of course. Its just that if a person currently has the MBA and was happy with it and wants to upgrade their computer then they might move to a different company. Where they get mad is the fact that they have to take such a step.

There are many reasons in modern society to get mad... this is not one. It's indicative of spoiled behavior.

A non backlit keyboard is a downgrade from a backlit keyboard. The basic component of a keyboard is still there. A HD 3000 is a downgrade from a 320m. The basic component of an integrated graphics processor is still there. If they don't want to take the downgrade they might have to switch companies and again its that step that is upsetting people.

Nice stretch but still different issues.

I enjoy thin and light laptops greatly and if the Samsung series 9 performed better at games then I would have bought that in a heart beat. Do I play games enough to warrant sacrificing the thin and light for power like an alienware m11x? No I don't. Thats just my opinion.

Good for you.
 
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2IS

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2011
2,938
433
You people are the reason why companies like Apple can decide to throw inferior parts into their products without taking any heat. We should never accept a downgrade in a newer product no matter how marginal. Why is the argument still that "people who want to game should buy a gaming computer."

Actually we aren't because people like us will simply buy a different (non Apple) product to game instead of complaining about it on a forum. We have enough sense to know that certain products are designed for certain tasks. We also realize technical limitations. The ONLY way Apple can get around HD3000 is to use a discrete GPU. There are space and thermal limitations to consider when doing this, and if somehow Apple managed to find away around these limitations while still maintaining the MBA's overall dimensions, then you have power consumption and how severely it will affect battery life.

But you didn't think about any of that did you?
 

tbobmccoy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2007
969
219
Austin, TX
I suppose the reason I don't care about the graphics card for gaming in my future MBA as much as others is that I am classified as a "retrogamer" ;)
 

Figs

macrumors newbie
Mar 1, 2011
6
0
It's my fault for even initiating any sort of debate, I guess my "10 year old" brain just can't seem to understand why Apple diehards will fight any sort of criticism aimed at their precious company, no matter how much sense it makes. No one on any forum anywhere will ever admit to being wrong or agree to disagree, so there's really no point in trying to convince them otherwise.

It would be like an atheist trying to convince a Catholic to abandon his faith; no matter how many cold hard facts he produces or doesn't, it's still like trying to convince them that the sky is green.

But who am I to argue with people who are so content with mediocrity.
 

sporadicMotion

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2008
1,111
23
Your girlfriends place
It's my fault for even initiating any sort of debate, I guess my "10 year old" brain just can't seem to understand why Apple diehards will fight any sort of criticism aimed at their precious company, no matter how much sense it makes. No one on any forum anywhere will ever admit to being wrong or agree to disagree, so there's really no point in trying to convince them otherwise.

It would be like an atheist trying to convince a Catholic to abandon his faith; no matter how many cold hard facts he produces or doesn't, it's still like trying to convince them that the sky is green.

But who am I to argue with people who are so content with mediocrity.

That's just it.... you've made a decision in your head that you're dealing with an apple diehard.

You're not.

:apple:
 
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Acronyc

macrumors 6502a
Jan 24, 2011
912
396
Let's get a little more official then :rolleyes:

This is just my opinion, but I hardly think Wikipedia can be used as an “official” source of information for anything, as it is not an authoritative source and there are many people that fall in between or outside of those categories. For example, I have been gaming for 25 years and enjoy playing long, involved games and also retro games but only have time for a few hours a week, so I could theoretically fit in the casual, hardcore, or retro categories.

Why would a gamer buy a MacBook Air when there are plenty of better machines for this? Why? Explain. Logically. I want an Apple logo on the back of my display is not a relevant Answer.

As to why a gamer would buy an MBA, I think many would buy it for more reasons than just wanting a shiny Apply logo. One of those reasons, especially for the late 2010 model, is that it is an ultraportable that is capable of running many modern games decently. Yes, there are some PC alternatives in the same size category, and the Alienware M11x has been mentioned. Have you actually used this machine? I had it for six months but sold it to get the 11” MBA.

I already had a larger gaming notebook when I purchased my M11x, but my work changed to involve a lot of traveling and I didn’t feel like lugging around a larger notebook. I wanted something small but relatively powerful and that would be easy to carry around, run all my work applications, and let me game on it every now and then. I have used many netbooks from Acer, Asus, Dell, and HP, and they all left me disappointed.

But none were as disappointing to me as the M11x. First, it is not an ultraportable, and it’s not as small and light as people would think. For an 11” notebook, it’s massive. It’s heavy, thick, bulky, and unwieldy. The power brick and cord is equally massive and I thought I was shipped the wrong one when I opened the box. The screen on the M11x is also terrible. I couldn’t believe reviewers were saying it was great, because it was so dim, black levels were awful, and viewing angles were very narrow. I also found myself a little embarrassed using my M11x in meetings at work, and I didn’t feel the glowing alien eyes were working in my favor.

Then there is the build quality. My brand new machine had a bunch of dirt under the screen, and I wondered how it got out of the factory that way. It creaked everywhere, there were parts that were not assembled together properly, and I ended up going through three screens, two keyboards, and one bottom panel before I had enough. I demanded a replacement machine, which Dell gave me (to their credit, they had great service but the onsite techs were terrible) and then I promptly sold it.

When I saw the 2010 11” MBA, I realized that it was the computer I was waiting for. Here was an 11” computer that finally had a processor more powerful than the Atom netbooks I was used to and was small, light, thin, had a great screen, and even had a decent IGP which could run Mass Effect 2 and a few other of my favorite games pretty well. I waited for reviews and was impressed of the gaming abilities of the little Mac. I researched other 11” options, but at the time I couldn’t find anything that had such a perfect combination of size, weight, footprint, CPU power (for me, better than the Atom), GPU ability, and nice aesthetics. I ordered a 1.4/4/128 11” and not for one second have I regretted it. It was my first Mac and also probably the best computer I’ve ever purchased.

My main priority in purchasing the MBA wasn’t for gaming, and as others have mentioned, I don’t think it should be the first priority. But, why can’t it be a second or third priority? It was for me, and the gaming abilities of the MBA was a deciding factor in my purchase. I wanted to have something thin and light but that could also play some modern games every now and then. When I bought the Air last December there really weren’t many alternatives that fit all of my criteria. While the M11x can game well, it makes too many sacrifices in other areas, and that’s why a gamer may choose the Air instead. I’ve found the 11” MBA to be so capable for my needs that I am using it 90% of the time, only turning on my gaming notebook when I want to play a more taxing game. I have nearly 200 Steam games, and out of the 20 or so I tested on the MBA, there were only a few that didn’t run well. Of course, if my main priority was gaming and I could only have one notebook, I would not have chosen the MBA. I think it’s clear in the design that the main purpose of the MBA is not gaming.

Anyway, apologies for the long post, but I just wanted to share my experience and mention that not all gamers have the question “ But can it play Crysis 2 at 60FPS?” in mind when they purchase an ultraportable. While there are more alternatives available now than last October, I think the MBA in its current iteration has been a fantastic compromise for people looking for an ultraportable that is capable of some gaming but is also small, light, and doesn’t look like a toy. That’s not even mentioning OS X, which I’ve found is so refreshing to use after years of using only Windows.
 
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sporadicMotion

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2008
1,111
23
Your girlfriends place
This is just my opinion, but I hardly think Wikipedia can be used as an “official” source of information for anything, as it is not an authoritative source and there are many people that fall in between or outside of those categories. For example, I have been gaming for 25 years and enjoy playing long, involved games and also retro games but only have time for a few hours a week, so I could theoretically fit in the casual, hardcore, or retro categories.

References

^ a b Cifaldi, Frank; Jill Duffy, Brandon Sheffield (2006-10-25). "Gamers On Trial: The ECA's Hal Halpin on Consumer Advocacy". Gamasutra. Retrieved 2007-12-03.
^ "The Entertainment Software Association - Industry Facts". Theesa.com. Retrieved 2010-07-16.
^ "Facts and Figures". Askaboutgames. Retrieved 2010-07-16.
^ Magrino, Tom, GameStop: Casual gamers spurring hardcore holiday sales, GameSpot, Sep 11, 2007, Accessed 3 May 2008
^ Boyes, Emma, GDC '08: Are casual games the future?, GameSpot, Feb 18, 2008, Accessed May 3, 2008
^ Wolverton, Troy (2007-08-23). "Women driving 'casual game' boom". San Jose Mercury News. Retrieved 2007-10-13.
^ "Plethora of Fitness Titles Lined Up For PlayStation Move#". PlayStation LifeStyle. 2010-04-19. Retrieved 2010-04-22.
^ Daniel Schorn (2006-08-06). "'Fatal1ty' article at CBS News". Cbsnews.com. Retrieved 2010-07-16.
^ "A Brief Look At Professional Gaming". kuro5hin.org. Retrieved 2010-07-16.
^ "MLG Awards $1.75 Million in Contracts for Top Pro Gamers | Major League Gaming". Mlgpro.com. 2006-12-18. Retrieved 2010-07-16.
^ http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/Misc/welaish.html
^ Anna Vander Broek (2009-04-23). "Gamer Speak for Newbs". Forbes. Retrieved 2010-02-16.
^ "NES Classics: retro gaming, at a price: Page 1". arstechnica.com. Retrieved 2008-04-14.
^ The Entertainment Software Association - Home Page. Web. 19 Nov. 2009. <http://www.theesa.com/>
^ a b Alexander Sliwinski (2007-05-08). "Gaymer.org looks to trademark 'Gaymer'". Retrieved 2011-06-05.
^ [1]
^ Alexander Sliwinski (2007-02-26). "Joystiq interviews gay gamer survey's creator Jason Rockwood". Retrieved 2011-06-05.
^ Alexander Sliwinski (2009-10-08). "New 'gaymer' survey explores sexual identity, interest in games".

Those are the references. Wiki is more credible than your opinion in this case. Go to wikipedia for links.

People. Read before answering.
 

Oppressed

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2010
1,265
10
To be honest those all could be nobel peace prize winners and I still wouldn't agree that 6 divisions of gamers can possibly categorize every single person on the planet who has played a video game. People are a bit more complex then that.


@ Acronyc: Excellent story to help put into prospective the complex needs of individuals. Glad to see you are happy with your decision.
 

Acronyc

macrumors 6502a
Jan 24, 2011
912
396
References

^ a b Cifaldi, Frank; Jill Duffy, Brandon Sheffield (2006-10-25). "Gamers On Trial: The ECA's Hal Halpin on Consumer Advocacy". Gamasutra. Retrieved 2007-12-03.
^ "The Entertainment Software Association - Industry Facts". Theesa.com. Retrieved 2010-07-16.
^ "Facts and Figures". Askaboutgames. Retrieved 2010-07-16.
^ Magrino, Tom, GameStop: Casual gamers spurring hardcore holiday sales, GameSpot, Sep 11, 2007, Accessed 3 May 2008
^ Boyes, Emma, GDC '08: Are casual games the future?, GameSpot, Feb 18, 2008, Accessed May 3, 2008
^ Wolverton, Troy (2007-08-23). "Women driving 'casual game' boom". San Jose Mercury News. Retrieved 2007-10-13.
^ "Plethora of Fitness Titles Lined Up For PlayStation Move#". PlayStation LifeStyle. 2010-04-19. Retrieved 2010-04-22.
^ Daniel Schorn (2006-08-06). "'Fatal1ty' article at CBS News". Cbsnews.com. Retrieved 2010-07-16.
^ "A Brief Look At Professional Gaming". kuro5hin.org. Retrieved 2010-07-16.
^ "MLG Awards $1.75 Million in Contracts for Top Pro Gamers | Major League Gaming". Mlgpro.com. 2006-12-18. Retrieved 2010-07-16.
^ http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/Misc/welaish.html
^ Anna Vander Broek (2009-04-23). "Gamer Speak for Newbs". Forbes. Retrieved 2010-02-16.
^ "NES Classics: retro gaming, at a price: Page 1". arstechnica.com. Retrieved 2008-04-14.
^ The Entertainment Software Association - Home Page. Web. 19 Nov. 2009. <http://www.theesa.com/>
^ a b Alexander Sliwinski (2007-05-08). "Gaymer.org looks to trademark 'Gaymer'". Retrieved 2011-06-05.
^ [1]
^ Alexander Sliwinski (2007-02-26). "Joystiq interviews gay gamer survey's creator Jason Rockwood". Retrieved 2011-06-05.
^ Alexander Sliwinski (2009-10-08). "New 'gaymer' survey explores sexual identity, interest in games".

Those are the references. Wiki is more credible than your opinion in this case. Go to wikipedia for links.

People. Read before answering.

No need to be so rude in stating your opinion. Because a Wikipedia article cites some sources does not make it the official authority on the topic as you suggested. A significant amount of my work is research, and if I cited a Wikipedia article not only would I be laughed at, but the citation and my use of information obtained from Wikipedia would be rejected. Wikipedia is great for general information and nothing more. Did you actually look at some of those references? While there are some decent references for some portions of the article, citations backing up casual gaming include two from a game retailer (GameSpot), no citations for the hardcore gamer description, and a blog citation (Ars Technica) for the retro gamer description. The citation backing up the definition of “noob” (http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/Misc/welaish.html) points to a 1994 personal article that has nothing to do with games but describes “Masonry on the Internet.”

Other “gems” include the San Jose Mercury News, Joystiq, and askaboutgames.com. I could whip up a tech blog, write a post saying that a hardcore gamer is only one that plays 40 hours per week and then use it as a citation in the Wikipedia article. Would that make the information credible? Of course not, and that’s the problem with Wikipedia and why I would argue it cannot be used as an “official” source of information.

Using your own words, perhaps you should read the citations that you say make the article credible before you make a post.

Anyway, the point of my post was not to debate the veracity of Wikipedia but to respond to your call for a logical reason why a gamer would purchase an MBA instead of another computer like the M11x. I was just trying to provide another perspective which I hope may be of some use to someone.

@ Acronyc: Excellent story to help put into prospective the complex needs of individuals. Glad to see you are happy with your decision.

Thank you very much for your kind words, much appreciated! :)
 
Last edited:

tbobmccoy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2007
969
219
Austin, TX
I should have butted in to this conversation of sourcing nut I thouht my joke was enough. Ah well...

As a teacher, I tell my kids never to go to Wikipedia for sources. Wikipedia is for entertainment purposes only, not trying to prove a point ever. The best you'll be able to do is to pull sources that you can actually look at (webpages), but never use any sources that you can't actually examine and verify.

Now that the "more you know" segment of this post is over, let's just wait on this hd3000 crap for a week or so when the new Airs are out and we can properly test them.
 

dsio

macrumors regular
Jun 19, 2011
216
9
Australia
Just spent the weekend playing StarCraft II at medium settings 1280x800 on the HD3000, 40-50fps isn't too bad tbh. Getting a bit boring hearing people that either don't own one, or install Windows 7 to play mac native games tell me how unplayable it is...
 

sporadicMotion

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2008
1,111
23
Your girlfriends place
No need to be so rude in stating your opinion. Because a Wikipedia article cites some sources does not make it the official authority on the topic as you suggested. A significant amount of my work is research, and if I cited a Wikipedia article not only would I be laughed at, but the citation and my use of information obtained from Wikipedia would be rejected. Wikipedia is great for general information and nothing more. Did you actually look at some of those references? While there are some decent references for some portions of the article, citations backing up casual gaming include two from a game retailer (GameSpot), no citations for the hardcore gamer description, and a blog citation (Ars Technica) for the retro gamer description. The citation backing up the definition of “noob” (http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/Misc/welaish.html) points to a 1994 personal article that has nothing to do with games but describes “Masonry on the Internet.”

Other “gems” include the San Jose Mercury News, Joystiq, and askaboutgames.com. I could whip up a tech blog, write a post saying that a hardcore gamer is only one that plays 40 hours per week and then use it as a citation in the Wikipedia article. Would that make the information credible? Of course not, and that’s the problem with Wikipedia and why I would argue it cannot be used as an “official” source of information.

Using your own words, perhaps you should read the citations that you say make the article credible before you make a post.

Anyway, the point of my post was not to debate the veracity of Wikipedia but to respond to your call for a logical reason why a gamer would purchase an MBA instead of another computer like the M11x. I was just trying to provide another perspective which I hope may be of some use to someone.

You're right here. I shouldn't have been so rude. So I am sorry for being rude to you.

However, all I was trying to do is provide a definition where there clearly was none (which was in question). This is the internet. Our sources are... the internet.

I REALLY should have looked through those sources better though. I just did what I said not to do; post with out reading.

The Average Gamer

This has more useful data as far as defining the average gamer. The sources are quite credible as far as web offerings go (ESA web links).

As far as your story goes, you tried other offerings and don't blindly gravitate towards a Mac, expecting it to do something it's not meant to. You knew what your expectations were.

You are not the "demographic" I am referring to.

Enjoy the rest of your day.
 
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