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terandle

macrumors member
Apr 23, 2015
50
74
I have the same thing. I believe what happened is that these were pulled from the iCloud backups for both the iPhone and iPad and put into a "Messages" bucket. Still, after more than a year of development, you would've expected that they had this figured out by now. There is no need to have everything stored twice. It's a waste of space on iCloud that we could be using for other things.

I’m going to try erasing my iPad first and then adding it to iCloud Messages from scratch. Of course it looks like I now need to wait 30 days to get my iCloud Messages data deleted sigh...

I have an iPhone X and an iPad. iCloud storage is identical on both. My total iCloud storage is 74.9GB. Messages occupies 4.8GB. Message conversations requires 1.4GB.

Yup the 1.4 GB storage is the storage just your one device is taking up, maybe it will work itself out in the end but the UI shouldn’t have even been designed to show two different sizes (4.8 GB vs 1.4 GB) in the first place if that was going to be the case so I have my doubts.
 

mzanker

macrumors 6502
Jul 14, 2008
315
114
United Kingdom
I think Apple still need to do some work on this. It all appears to be working in that I now have exactly the same messages (both iMessage and SMS) on both iPhone and iPad, but the iPad has more "Conversations" than the iPhone, even though the total amount of storage consumed shows the same on both devices...
 

Mac 128

macrumors 603
Apr 16, 2015
5,360
2,930
What's new about iMessages in the cloud? It's always synced across all my devices. Can we access imessages from iCloud now?
No.

The biggest thing is that when you delete a message on iPhone, it will also delete on iPad. Mac syncing coming soon.

No!? So when I'm traveling and lose my phone, I can't just log into a computer, access my iCloud account and view my text messages? Is this feature coming then?

Also, Is the data stored in the cloud secured by end to end encryption? In other words, Apple can't access the database from their servers and view the contents without a password?
 

skillwill

macrumors 6502
Feb 12, 2008
480
661
Hopefully the people complaining that there are a few issues in Messages for iCloud (was smooth for me), aren't the same people who were pressuring Apple into rushing it out.
 

StevenB14

macrumors regular
May 23, 2012
225
46
Scotland
What defines a message thread as a conversation? I have some group chats and individual chats that show under conversations and then I have some that don't.

The only thing in common I noticed between them is that the chats in conversations all have photos etc shared whereas the ones that don't appear have no media shared that I'm aware of.
 

zackattack784

macrumors member
Sep 17, 2014
68
25
How long will the messages stay in the cloud? If I set my device to only keep 1 year of message history will it only keep 1 year in iCloud or everything? If iCloud messages is taking up too much space is there a way to set it to only keep 1 year?
 

BenTrovato

macrumors 68040
Jun 29, 2012
3,048
2,222
Canada
No!? So when I'm traveling and lose my phone, I can't just log into a computer, access my iCloud account and view my text messages? Is this feature coming then?

Also, Is the data stored in the cloud secured by end to end encryption? In other words, Apple can't access the database from their servers and view the contents without a password?

That's what I thought all the excitement was about. Would have been really cool to access iMessages in the cloud like we can with notes for example. I'm actually really confused why anyone is excited that just because I delete a text on my iPhone that it gets deleted on my iPad and on the Mac. How they named the feature seems more like a letdown.
 

StevenB14

macrumors regular
May 23, 2012
225
46
Scotland
That's what I thought all the excitement was about. Would have been really cool to access iMessages in the cloud like we can with notes for example. I'm actually really confused why anyone is excited that just because I delete a text on my iPhone that it gets deleted on my iPad and on the Mac. How they named the feature seems more like a letdown.

Also does allow people to do a fresh setup of a phone and not lose all their messages unless they restore from a backup.
 
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Morac

macrumors 68020
Dec 30, 2009
2,296
676
When iCloud Messages was just enabled on my phone Messages was consuming ~6 GB of space (in iCloud). When I enabled it on my iPad the the amount of space used by Messages in iCloud doubled. Left them overnight still that way and judging by the UI this is the expected state going forward.

I’m seeing the same thing. One thing I’ve noticed is that the Message storage info seems completely wrong on both my iPhone and iPad. My iPad says it’s taking up 14 MB and only had 2 photos despite there being a lot more photos in the Messages app. My iPhone, which has the same messages says it’s taking up 102 MB. It shows more videos and photos, but doesn’t list all the conversations (60 MB) the are actually in the Messages app.

The iCloud Message storage (on my iPad) shows 240 MB of usage, with 92 MB of conversations. The conversations listed match what’s on my iPhone (not my iPad). My iPhone shows no conversations at all in iCloud storage.

At this point I’ve deleted a bunch of old threads and that has synced across, but older messages aren’t syncing across.
 

Tokenfreak

macrumors 6502a
Oct 31, 2011
672
405
IT looks like my imessages have synced but they do not show in icloud storage. All I seen now is like 11 GB of other space being taken up. How do I fix this?
 

Morac

macrumors 68020
Dec 30, 2009
2,296
676
I decided to turn off Messages in iCloud on my iPhone since it didn’t seem to be downloading old messages. It said that it needed to download messages, I said okay and it immediately turned off. I don’t think it did any downloading as far as I could tell.

I restarted my iPhone and turned it back on. I went into messages and I never got a message saying it wanted to upload or download messages. It is syncing deletes, but still doesn’t seem to be syncing messages.

Speaking of deletes, if I delete a single thread I get warned about it deleting everywhere. If I select multiple threads, I never get warned when deleting them.
 

Narcaz

macrumors 6502
Jul 18, 2013
419
558
If i delete single photos and videos, they are not synced. I can only delete single texts or whole conversations. Can someone confirm this behavior? Unless this a bug, this is a another disappointment.

Edit:
Also note that this only works on actual messages and not attached photos unfortunately. Still have to manually go in and delete them on each device separately. Kill me now

Ok thank you. So icloud message is absolutely useless for me. I guess keeping my ipad at delete after 30 days and notifications off will be my best option.
 
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bradbomb

macrumors 6502a
Jan 7, 2002
566
309
Los Angeles, CA
I have no idea what’s best for you. I neither have any idea why you want to save ~10years of communication in your messages at all.

But if I wanted to do so, of course I would.
But been certain that my backup was solid. So I anytime could lose the messages on the phone, without it being a disaster.
Sooner or later you might want to strip the size down. Then knowing that you had your backup organized wouldn’t hurt when you want to delete the oldest yrs.


I understand you might not know why I would keep it. I definitely have backups and all. This for me wouldn't be done because I need the space, my iphone is a 256 GB. I was just curious if there were others on this forum that do keep ALL their texts on their phones and don't delete them. Back before I had an iPhone, I had a Palm Treo and I actually loved the fact that on my different Treos, the call history was practically infinite from when I first got my first Treo. I didn't have to worry that calls would disappear from the log after 2 weeks or after 100 calls.

Basically in terms of what I have kept on my phone, my Camera Roll is complete from when I got my first iPhone 3G in 2008, my text history is complete from when I got my iPhone 3G. I do not ever set up my iPhone as new when upgrading. I like having those there at my fingertips if I ever need to pull it up again and I have done that with both photos and old texts. I have old emails still saved on my computer from when I was in college from 1999-2003. I wish I had emails dated before 1998, but Claris Emailer had a nasty crash on my old Mac back then and the database file got completely corrupt. My question for others has always been why not keep some of these things. Its not taking up any more physical space like with people who are hoarders.
 

VineRider

macrumors 65816
May 24, 2018
1,419
1,251
I have done some testing on my iPad mini running 11.4. I have iMessage in the cloud turned on. I ran an iCloud backup this morning and then after the backup I deleted some text messages off of my iPad. I verified that they were also deleted off of my iPhone X to verify that messages were synching across devices.

Next, I erased all settings and data and restored the iPad mini from the backup I had made earlier. I was wanting to verify if the messages I deleted would be there or not. I was assuming they would not since now all messages are in the cloud and not contained in the iCloud backup of my iPad mini.

After restore, I verified that the messages were still deleted. This confirmed that when you turn on iMessage in the cloud, your messages are no longer part of the iCloud backup but are stored in iCloud as iMesssages in the cloud.

Also, I noted that when I first checked my iMessages after the restore had completed after the erase all data, there were none as they had not yet downloaded from iCloud.

I also noted that I had to plug in the iPad for the messages to restore to the iPad, much like iCloud Photo Library does when doing a restore from backup.

This may be old news for most of you, but hopefully this helps with questions you may have.

Disclaimer - This is my experience only, your mileage may vary :)
 

Lioness~

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2017
3,394
4,227
Sweden
My question for others has always been why not keep some of these things. Its not taking up any more physical space like with people who are hoarders.

I have ancient things stored too, on disks, in archives. There's usually a way to open it when or if I ever need. Which probably is, never in most cases. Sometimes it have been both necessarily and enlightening to take a dive into it though.
I can understand the security reason to store memories. To me, looking forward is usually more interesting then being nostalgic. But luckily we are all different which makes the world more colorful.

In your situation I don't think I would turn on iCloud sync for messages then.
If messages drop into your devices just fine, and you want to keep all stuff on all of them.
And never delete anything on your devices, or delete on 1 and keep on another, what's the point?
For now iCloud is not something very reliable to me.
Apple is doing a lot of, and hopefully more, expansion of iCloud over the time.
But the security is not very good. Many people have had or have syncing problem.
Which was more uncommon earlier. But iCloud grows, and with that the demands raises.
I do a lot of syncing with my NAS instead of trusting iCloud with it now.
 
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Lioness~

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2017
3,394
4,227
Sweden
In regards to messages in the cloud, are they in a particular folder in iCloud Drive? I don't see them anywhere.
You don’t see them from the iCloud Drive. From there (the Files app) you only have access to the things you put there.
But you can see what stuff, apps, storage, turn off/on from iCloud settings on your devices.
 

Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
35,573
52,306
In a van down by the river
You don’t see them from the iCloud Drive. From there (the Files app) you only have access to the things you put there.
But you can see what stuff, apps, storage, turn off/on from iCloud settings on your devices.
Apple has our messages stored in a hidden part of our Cloud?

Seems rather strange that I can download my messages should I turned off message syncing, but I can't actively view any messages Apple has stored for me.
 

Lioness~

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2017
3,394
4,227
Sweden
Apple has our messages stored in a hidden part of our Cloud?

Seems rather strange that I can download my messages should I turned off message syncing, but I can't actively view any messages Apple has stored for me.
Yes, at least Messages should be available through iCloud.com as you have with Notes, Calendar & the other stuff. You don’t find them on iCloud Drive either. I haven’t personally checked, just recall I heard that they wasn’t visble there. All too new yet...
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
Apple has our messages stored in a hidden part of our Cloud?

Seems rather strange that I can download my messages should I turned off message syncing, but I can't actively view any messages Apple has stored for me.

Yes, at least Messages should be available through iCloud.com as you have with Notes, Calendar & the other stuff. You don’t find them on iCloud Drive either. I haven’t personally checked, just recall I heard that they wasn’t visble there. All too new yet...
Probably has something to do with iMessage being encrypted and also exclusive to Apple devices.
 
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Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
35,573
52,306
In a van down by the river
Probably has something to do with iMessage being encrypted and also exclusive to Apple devices.
That is a very good point, CDM. Forgot about that aspect. Don't want to open any Pandora Boxes.
[doublepost=1527707461][/doublepost]I have to be diligent in paying close attention to which phone I reply to messages from, seeing how both lines are getting the same texts. One line is my top secret secure business line, and the other is my general use line.
 

Mac 128

macrumors 603
Apr 16, 2015
5,360
2,930
That's what I thought all the excitement was about. Would have been really cool to access iMessages in the cloud like we can with notes for example. I'm actually really confused why anyone is excited that just because I delete a text on my iPhone that it gets deleted on my iPad and on the Mac. How they named the feature seems more like a letdown.

Yeah, I don't want that. I use my Mac as basically an archive of all text Messages, so I don't ever want them deleted. I delete mosts texts off my iPad, and retain certain ones on my iPhone, but not others. I really hope this doesn't turn into another Apple debacle where suddenly all of my text messages get deleted after a restore, or some other MobileMe-type nonsense.

Also does allow people to do a fresh setup of a phone and not lose all their messages unless they restore from a backup.

Are you saying it does?
 
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bwintx

macrumors 6502
Jul 17, 2002
371
326
This may be old news for most of you, but hopefully this helps with questions you may have.

I did a very similar procedure on my iPad Pro 9.7; very similar results. Thanks for posting this. Only difference in my case is that another Apple ID (my wife's) had previously used Messages on this iPad, so there appears to be a little bit of confusion on its part between Messages from her and Messages from me to her, but am hoping that straightens itself out with time. Not sure what will happen when macOS 10.13.5 finally drops, but will cross that bridge at the appropriate time.
 
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