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Alternative a)

Apple will allow sideloading:

- Only models with 6 GB RAM or more will be compatible
- Will be under a sandbox virtual machine inside iOS or iPadOS, with every layer (storage, photos, camera, on their own - no interact with core operating system resources)
- Will be an on/off switch in advanced options in settings, warning:
* It will reduce system performance considerably

You can install whatever you want on your device, but this will NOT interact with the core operating system at any level.

Alternative b)

Apple will allow sideloading, natively:

- Every iOS 17 supported model will be compatible
- Will be an on-only switch in advanced options in settings, warning:
* Face ID will be disabled
* Apple Pay will be disabled
* FaceTime will be disabled
* Apple Watch integration will be disabled
* Only App Store will remain enabled and possibly Apple Music and Apple TV+
- You will have 3 warning messages indicating that this could put your data at risk
- In order to disable it and revert to normal no-sideloading operation, you must factory-reset your iPhone

Basically, you will have an unlocked iPhone, but crippled.

This will comply with EU regulation: you want to install whatever you want? Cool, install whatever you want. Then, if this is useful or not, or cripple your iPhone, it's not their problem.
I like combinations of A and B. But the virtualization of iOS would work best! :)
 
Now, imagine a world where you can both. You can pick a simple device that just works but it is mostly locked down with 1 store to get your apps. AND, you can pick from hundreds of other manufactures running another operating system that lets you do whatever you want. Maybe not as easy to do, but you can learn quickly enough. Which you can do whatever you want to it or with it. Sounds like a dream.
I never understood the apprehension to sidelining from people. Only about 10% of Android users bother to do it and they are the ones who are flashing a different OS each month. Even built in stores from OEMs like Samsung still can't compete with Google. Customers just don't bother.

If iOS opens up like this which on Android is a per-app permission rather than a blanket background service then it will be fine. Chances are if you're posting on a forum like this you'll know a legit app from a dodgy one.

But the benefits are not multiple stores but access to stuff not allowed by Apple such as Torrent apps and Emulators. Rather than pirating stuff, torrent apps make it quicker to download large files from dev platforms (eg github). It will also allow Microsoft to bring out a native Gamepass app instead of having to play in a browser window.

Also we've been sideloading apps on computers for 50 years.
 
The iPhone was not meant to be a general purpose computer. Like macOS (Laptop/Desktop). It runs with much less power, and is always on a network connection (Cell or Wi-Fi).
If you want macOS on a mobile device, buy a MacBook air.

Explain why the same restrictions exist on iPadOS then, a tablet that is running the same hardware a Mac does.
 
This is great right up until companies refuse to offer App Store version of their software and force users to sideload. I can see Meta doing this and bringing along spyware and user tracking that they were forced to eliminate due to apple’s tracking bans
I agree it would be bad if companies did that but I just don’t see it working. The way sideloading should be set up is giving users a switch they can turn on in settings. Do you think even Facebook will be able to get over that barrier? I don’t
 
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Good article


Per the author

If Apple had very quietly allowed sideloading a few years ago, that would have removed the antitrust threat – while the overwhelming majority of iPhone owners would have continued to get their apps from the App Store, just as they always have. The percentage of iPhone owners who will ever sideload an app is vanishingly small, so Apple has spent a lot of time and energy fighting a battle that is completely pointless

Worse, by fighting the issue so loudly and for so long, Apple has actually given the issue way more publicity than it would ever have received otherwise. It has turned what would otherwise have been a boring technical detail covered only by the Apple press into a mass-media news story. Apple has effectively contributed to its portrayal as a bad guy, with zero benefit to the company.


This is indeed an example where there was way too much banging the drum attracting negative opinions and attention. The only positive from it all is that Apple likely approached their solution better instead of implementing it rushed, in other words considered numerous aspects of what iOS 17 is getting this year.
 
Seems a little dramatic considering that sideloading has existed on Android since day 1 and yet, somehow, most people with Android phones aren't complaining about suffering from endless malware. 😅

Personally, I think a bigger issue is the potential impact on developers. In the heyday of jailbreaking, pirating apps was relatively easy. While it still can be done today, it does involve a bit more effort.

If it becomes easier via sideloading, developers may see significant income drops; especially hurting smaller ones who may find further development uneconomic. Ultimately, they may have to take the Android route and make te app subscription based to fight piracy.
 
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So, based on this logic, Apple should also build a back door into iOS so that they can "track down" terrorists because the government should have access to anyone's device at the same control as you want.

What's next? You want root control of the entire chipset next? Oh, should Apple not protect their trade secrets so YOU could build YOUR own smartphone? Is that how much CONTROL YOU want?

We don't allow TikTok installed in our MDM because it's not work related, not because TikTok is inherently. TikTok, like any social media site, is a time waster. And we do not allow company devices to waste company time.

How much control do you want? Do you want to overclock the iPhone? Do you want to use the web browser to also be the same app to have access to the filing system? Windows XP did that and it worked, fantastically.

It's the same argument Woz and Steve had, and Steve always won. Microsoft does not allow root access to Windows much anymore, and MacOS has never allowed root. Root is allowed by an Administrator account to login as root as a Super User (SU) much like its BSD 7 father.

How much control does the user actually need? Do you really need a second App Store to download TikTok? Are you worried about how that Third Party App Store will use your data? Or try to protect it? Apple is a 3 trillion dollar company, it can afford to lock its entire infrastructure down. The Epic App Store will just have Fortnite. You want multiple App Stores to manage multiple Apps? Did we not learn from cord cutting causing the rise of 40 different streaming services all charging the same price eclipsing the original cost of cable?

Did we not learn that SOMEONE is taking a 15%-20% cut of the App's revenue to fund the maintenance and admin of the App Store REGARDLESS of whose App Store it is?

What cut does the Amazon or Samsung Galaxy stores take from devs?

And is it worth it to a dev to supply multiple stores when over 85% of all downloads come from the default App Store (Google Play/Apple App Stores)? And they're still gonna pay a percent of their revenue to the owner of that App Store. Maybe not at first, that's called a Bait and Switch sales tactic. "Dollar Gets You Started!" does not mean "Dollar Gets You Delivered!"

So, you'll get your third party app stores, but then wait a year and those third party app stores will start charging a commission, either based on net rev or based off a percentage of each sale.

But yeah, compromise the entire ecosystem so you can download TikTok SOMEWHERE ELSE.
mk first of all
PEOPLE WHO WANTED THIS AREN'T LOOKING FOR A APP TO DOWNLOAD APPS FROM THE APPSTORE ON
for me, i want/desperatley need google play to be able to download software onto my chromebook, so getting play on my iphone would be great
and emulators are also not on the app store, so that would be great
stop always thinking that anything not apple=absolute garbage EEEeEWWWwWwwWwwWww
 
The beauty is that Apple doesn't have do software support for devices that sideload. You sideload bad software that steals info from you, you have only you to blame. Yes, the people that want to take the risk can. Might actually be a win for Apple.

And, yes, Android allowed this for a long time. But, that is why Android is hardly supported. For example, can't really go into a Samsung store and get help. Pretty much toast when it comes to support. I feel like I'm constantly helping my friends/family that took the Andriod route.

I have both Android and iOS devices for work. Should be fine.
 
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What does that have to do with the statement/position "I trust Apple more than other companies"? They don't seem to preclude each other at all.
because you shouldn't.
just because you have a iphone doesn't mean you don't need a vpn.
just because something is a popular brand, doesn't mean its safe
the idea that Apple is safer and the best choice is a lie.
sure, both andriod and apple have their saftey features, but don't just assume everything is counted for and safe.
 
But the benefits are not multiple stores but access to stuff not allowed by Apple such as Torrent apps and Emulators. Rather than pirating stuff, torrent apps make it quicker to download large files from dev platforms (eg github). It will also allow Microsoft to bring out a native Gamepass app instead of having to play in a browser window.

Yes, people love to pirate. I'm sure they will own all the games they are running in emulators. As I'm sure there are real good reasons to run Torrent apps on my phone that don't involve piracy.

And yes, we've been sideloading apps for many years. I'll stick with running only apps signed by Apple on iOS.
 
Still, I like apple's hardware eco-system AND would like more freedom when it comes to software. As an apple customer I bite the bullet and live with the wallet garden - but I'd rather not - because for me it has more drawbacks than benefits. Let me have what I want?
Looks like we both bought the same phone knowing exactly what we were getting.

Now you want to change how my phone works so that it's more suitable to your taste?
 
I have a Mac, and let me tell you: more than half of the apps I have installed on my Mac don't come from the App Store.

These are not apps that would violate the App Store rules in any way, it's just that the developer chose to distribute their software outside the App Store to "avoid the Apple tax".

Maybe that's good for these companies, but does it really benefit the users? As a user, the only thing I can see is the mess of having to manage installs, updates, and payment information in a thousand different places instead of one and having to deal with third-party installers that install junk and root kits everywhere in my system just to let me use their stupid service.

I'll give you a quick example of what I mean: Spotify on macOS.

Spotify as you know for sure is available on the iOS App Store, but not on the Mac App Store.

To get Spotify on your Mac you have to go to their website, download the installer and run the installer to install the app on your Mac.

The installer doesn't just install the Spotify app on your system, but also edits some system files (without your explicit permission) so that Spotify can launch itself automatically every time you restart your computer.

View attachment 2190177

And this is just the start. Who knows what other junk is installed by these third-party installers. They all ask for the admin password, even when they install trivial, self-contained apps, and that means that they technically have permission to install junk wherever they want inside your system.

I seldom appreciate the fact that I can install whatever I want on my Mac, but I am often frustrated by all the third-party installers that try to install junk and adware and having to deal with third-party payment processing systems.

I don't want my phone to become like this.
The ability to stop apps from opening at login and executing in the background is built into macOS just go to settings and prevent Spotify from executing at login, done, there is an option in the app itself to disable that.
 

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Nothing that I’ve seen suggests that Apple has to grant non-App Store apps any (or substantively) more access to the system than App Store apps have. So, assuming that’s the case, an exploit used by a non-App Store app could also likely be used by an App Store app.

And in either case, that means a vulnerability exists and Apple needs to fix it. Expecting whatever little human intervention is left in app review to stop vulnerabilities instead of actually fixing them is…not wise.
When vulnerabilities show up in app review, they can immediately learn about it and plug it. When a vulnerability shows up in the wild not through the app store it can take months before they even realize it.
 
As I read through this thread, and many others on the same or corresponding topics, I keep seeing some form of this statement: So you want to change the way my phone works just so you can get something you want? or You want to turn iOS into Android!

iOS and iPadOS have so many features and settings that we elect to turn ON, turn OFF, or just leave the default setting alone. Many we never look at or use. This would be just another one of many many such settings.

If you are concerned over this function, leave is OFF. I would expect Apple to have controls in place that if it is OFF, you as a user are not impacted.
 
deal with apps they may not have approved of: porn (with possibly no protection for minors), garbage trash not good enough for the App Store, amateur apps made with poor skill that cause iOS kernel panics (SIGKILL/SIGABRT), money grubbers, making an app that is merely just encasing a browser pointed at your website instead of actually putting thought and skill into it, and leeches who want to access your customer base FOR FREE with no payment for the cost of acquiring said customers.
So, the current state of the App Store?
 
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Looks like we both bought the same phone knowing exactly what we were getting.

Now you want to change how my phone works so that it's more suitable to your taste?
That's literally how the iPhone has evolved over the past decade and a half. Peoples' evolving tastes have driven many design changes to the phone and the operating system.

This particular change is even more silly for you to complain about - it isn't going to change how your phone works in any meaningful way unless you personally change how you use it.
 
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As I read through this thread, and many others on the same or corresponding topics, I keep seeing some form of this statement: So you want to change the way my phone works just so you can get something you want? or You want to turn iOS into Android!

iOS and iPadOS have so many features and settings that we elect to turn ON, turn OFF, or just leave the default setting alone. Many we never look at or use. This would be just another one of many many such settings.

If you are concerned over this function, leave is OFF. I would expect Apple to have controls in place that if it is OFF, you as a user are not impacted.
You want to turn iOS into what you think it should be. You bought an iPhone knowing what iOS is and isn’t.

Years ago, I wanted OS X to be something that it wasn’t. It wasn’t going to change so I didn’t buy another Mac. Don’t support something that doesn’t fit your needs.
 
The question isn't whether Apple will implement side-loading, but how. We know Apple has been fighting this for the longest time, and you can be sure that sideloading on iOS will come with enough caveats and asterisks that the process is not going to be as straightforward as some might expect.
Watch apple make side load apps use a new language that apple will charge 18k a class to learn rofl
 
That's literally how the iPhone has evolved over the past decade and a half. Peoples' evolving tastes have driven many design changes to the phone and the operating system.

This particular change is even more silly for you to complain about - it isn't going to change how your phone works in any meaningful way unless you personally change how you use it.
Unfortunately it will change the experience of using the phone for me as well.

As soon as it will be possible to do so, many apps will stop being distributed through the App Store to "avoid the Apple tax".

This means that to keep using all the apps and services I'm using now, I'll be forced to:

1) Side load apps from the web or (even worse) through third-party app stores.
2) Use alternative payment processing systems and give my credit card details to possibly shady intermediaries.
3) Manually keep track of active subscriptions of apps sold outside the App Store.
4) Put up with whatever shady business tactics and security risks the developers will come up with (as an example, say goodbye to the convenience and privacy of using "Sign-in with Apple" pretty much on every service that requires an e-mail address to work).

I'm giving you a bunch of real reasons why side loading is gonna make the experience of using the phone worse for everyone.

Can anybody come up with any concrete example of side loading improving the user experience??
 
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