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Apple make the product, it’s theirs to decide how it works.
So, by this logic, Apple is more powerful than law, cause it can “decide how it works” rather than design products based on customer need (decided by customer), comply with regulatory requirements (decided by government) while deliver the maximum amount of profit to all of its shareholders (decided by investors).
Yeah, Apple makes the product, it’s theirs to decide how it works. :rolleyes:
 
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If anyone is a dictator that dictates anything, it’s Apple in this.
And they’re doing it out of greed.

And governments are, slowly but surely, beginning the rein in these gatekeeping dictators.
I feel like some folks here might want to give a shot at using a government-restricted internet for a year and report back to how they feel after that year. Freedom has never been taken for granted, but something we need to defend. Phantom of choice, on the other hand, doesn’t matter much if at all.

Reminds me of Tiles vs AirTags a few years back.
 
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They simultaneously want Apple to protect the consumer while also banning apps they (the governments) don't like
If governments so much wanted to ban apps, they would never mandate sideloading.
Apple's solitary grip on the distribution of apps is the best thing that possible to exercise such power.
They just have to coerce Apple into dropping it from their App Store (with no sideloading allowd).
And Apple will happily oblige, given the potential blackmail of restricting their lucrative hardware sales.
 
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If governments so much wanted to ban apps, they would never mandate sideloading.
So what is the US, on up to the POTUS trying to do with Tic Tok? It is exactly why I mentioned it. They are not terribly bright when it comes to technology. It is TOTAL hypocrisy, and or not a good example of good governance.
Apple's solitary grip on the distribution of apps is the best thing that possible to exercise such power.
YUP!!! Yet, we are in this situation.
They just have to coerce Apple into dropping it from their App Store (with no sideloading allowd).
CAN'T HAVE BOTH! Sorry to yell, but you can't have it both ways. Side-Loading allows me to do (as so many have stated) what I want outside the stores. You can't stop me from doing it if I have the ability to side-load.
And Apple will happily oblige, given the potential blackmail of restricting their lucrative hardware sales.
If the law forces them to. Otherwise, they will have to get creative to either work around it (if possible). Or do something completely different. Something that solves the issues for the company, and provides whatever these governments want. Which sounds pretty hard to do. But it is Apple that is what they do. Make the hard stuff simple.
 
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But it is Apple that is what they do. Make the hard stuff simple.
Yeah, if only they'd made their Paid Applications (developer) Agreement ...simpler, too.

I mean, physical goods and services vs. electronic goods, "reader" apps, External Link Account Entitlements to link to an outside account management page. You can watch and pause any Netflix video in-app without Apple's approval - yet good (I mean... Apple!) forbid there's a few buttons on your video stream - for Apple now has to pre-approve any such content.

I mean... who understands all this stuff, this legalese fine-print and its distinctions? 🤷‍♀️
 
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So, by this logic, Apple is more powerful than law, cause it can “decide how it works” rather than design products based on customer need (decided by customer), comply with regulatory requirements (decided by government) while deliver the maximum amount of profit to all of its shareholders (decided by investors).
Yeah, Apple makes the product, it’s theirs to decide how it works. :rolleyes:
Isn't that true concerning the whole tech industry? Can any external parties micro manage the exact way corporations design products around customers interactions. Yes perhaps something doesn't quite measure up to some countries laws, but then its like the differences involving encryption with many governments all having different requirements on whats allowed and whats not allowed as an example. :eek:
 
Its both. It is what we (the folks you mentioned) want. And what Governments want.
We (the people) want the device we purchased the way it is. The Government's want access to your devices. They simultaneously want Apple to protect the consumer while also banning apps they (the governments) don't like. And while allowing back doors that only the government can get into.

Governments also want more openness on all devices. Which like I stated many times. Makes them the same. Google already has that. Let them continue to have that. And let Apple continue to have its closed option. Let the people pick what they want.

People don’t buy iOS/iPadOS for the walled store. Or most don’t. If we suddenly had access to an MS App Store on our devices other than to point it out most wouldn’t blink. Add a Steam App Store and even more would applaud.
Collectively consumers may be able to sway Apple’s design but not likely. Individually not a chance in hell.

And here I thought we lived in a mostly free world.

Free will yes. Free choice, not exactly.
 
This will be the most convoluted side loading you’ve ever seen. And Apple won’t announce it.

Then again I’m not sure how much use it will be. Other than some games the future isn’t apps, it’s services. And even then gaming’s also going down the service route.
 
This will be the most convoluted side loading you’ve ever seen
We'll wait and see about that.

Cause thankfully the legislation includes very explicit anti-circumvention clauses. 👏

"The gatekeeper shall not engage in any behaviour that undermines effective compliance with the obligations of Articles 5, 6 and 7 regardless of whether that behaviour is of a contractual, commercial or technical nature, or of any other nature, or consists in the use of behavioural techniques or interface design."

"The gatekeeper shall not degrade the conditions or quality of any of the core platform services provided to business users or end users who avail themselves of the rights or choices laid down in Articles 5, 6 and 7, or make the exercise of those rights or choices unduly difficult, including by offering choices to the end-user in a non-neutral manner, or by subverting end users’ or business users' autonomy, decision-making, or free choice via the structure, design, function or manner of operation of a user interface or a part thereof."

"The gatekeeper shall technically enable end users who decide to set that downloaded software application or software application store as their default to carry out that change easily."


Admittedly, this is the stuff that makes for disputes.
Will Apple try to make sideloading as difficult and convoluted as possible? Maybe.
But given that sideloading and third-party app store exist today and given how they work, I don't think the EU-mandated one can or will be more convoluted.
 
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So, by this logic, Apple is more powerful than law, cause it can “decide how it works” rather than design products based on customer need (decided by customer), comply with regulatory requirements (decided by government) while deliver the maximum amount of profit to all of its shareholders (decided by investors).
Yeah, Apple makes the product, it’s theirs to decide how it works. :rolleyes:
I don't think Apple is more powerful than any government, but this does go to show the challenge of drafting a piece of legislation to have the intended outcome. It's one thing to go "I want you to do X" and it's another thing to make the contract as iron tight as possible, because you know the recipient is going to be a stickler for the rules and abuse every loophole they can find in order to give in as little possible.

Right now, the DMA appears to be watertight, but we really won't know for sure until Apple unveils their take on sideloading, and we can see how close or far from the intended spirit of the rules it is.
 


Apple in iOS 17 will for the first time allow iPhone users to download apps hosted outside of its official App Store, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.
Otherwise known as sideloading, the change would allow customers to download apps without needing to use the App Store, which would mean developers wouldn't need to pay Apple's 15 to 30 percent fees.
Amazing! Finally I can use emulators without having to open my laptop every week.
 
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They in fact can keep the App Store. But now it‘s being measured if they really deliver compared to others.

As far as we know, Apple did nothing to ensure quality or security, because that work is being done by the devs.
The App Store enforces minimal standards, and like all efforts to enforce standards, it costs money (as does advertising and app serving infrastructure). The devs will want to maximise profit, so they will leave the app store and then there will not be any standards. Sure, companies will face market pressure if their apps are fraudulent, security risks, or privacy risks, but that is closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. And your claim that Apple does nothing for security seems to contradict the claims Apple are making (https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022...e-billion-in-fraudulent-transactions-in-2021/). Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Apple is lying or exaggerating about this?

Consumers did have a very clear choice before this EU lunacy: it's called Android and it controls ~70% of the market. What the EU has down is basically make iOS the same as Android. That's restricting choice, not enhancing it. Choice entails diversity of options. Again, the EU should have focused on making Apple guarantee the security of apps within its wall garden. That would have maintained diversity of choice.

EDIT: Tried to remove the snarky tone. Apologies.
 
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The gatekeeper shall not degrade the conditions or quality of any of the core platform services provided to business users or end users

Interestingly, it does not not require them to improve access; so if Apple requires users to allow access to specific data sets, for example, uniformly then they can apply those rules to sideloaded apps.

It will be interesting to see what happens as streaming services and game companies hit the gatekeeper threshold.
 
The devs will want to maximise profit, so they will leave the app store

In the end, I doubt any will becasue few app stores will have teh reach of Apple's at the same cost.

This is my main takeaway from this.. now I can play stuff like Paper Mario and Kirby games on the go as if there were mobile ports! :D

Except having an iPhon will give Nintendo a way to specifically identify who has installed copies of those game ROMS, should they decide to pursue lawsuits. It's a double edge sword. In the case of a side loaded app, will Apple try to squash a subpoena for data on users who installed it and specific ROMs?
 
Except having an iPhon will give Nintendo a way to specifically identify who has installed copies of those game ROMS, should they decide to pursue lawsuits. It's a double edge sword. In the case of a side loaded app, will Apple try to squash a subpoena for data on users who installed it and specific ROMs?
Oh, don't worry... I have practice in the arts. I have a decent library (around 50) prepared for as soon as they release, and if privacy is really one of their strong suits, then they won't blare any whistles.
 
Seems many people are praising this, but this is a terrible decision for all iOS users. You can say "I won't be installing any side loading apps", but the problem is there will be a subset of apps, games, and other stuff that will require it. Or if you have kids, they will bug you for it. A perfect example of the issues you will see is if you are a Windows user and play games. There are a ton of different stores you need to install just to play a game on your Windows machine. You've got the Windows Store, Steam store, Blizzard Store, Epic Store, and others. Call of Duty, sometimes it comes out on the Steam Store, sometimes it comes out on the Blizzard Store. You have to install it wherever and sign up for an account. Activision has their thing too. Some games are installed out of the Blizzard store, but you still need to create an Activision account to play those games. You have to keep these stores running in the background all the time, they constantly have to update theirselves. EA also has their own thing. Installing a game has become so complicated on Windows because of all of these stores and different accounts that need to be setup. Epic is not going to release games anymore on the App Store, so any of those games will require maintaining the Epic Store store. Since the obvious security concerns, some iOS apps may not work with another store installed. We've seen that with the jailbreak community where apps were specially written to look to see if you had a jailbroken phone and would disable themselves. You'd see that with AT&T apps, games, and other things. Some security software if you use your phone for work would also not work. This will be a huge mess, and will not benefit the consumer at all. There will be NO discounts using someone else's store of the AppStore as they all change the same commission anyways. Wish people would see this and understand this.
 
Good for them. Hope they have more luck than they did with the Windows Store. :D

Seriously though, the more the merrier. A half dozen legit app stores would give some proper choice.

How DARE they give iOS users choice and increase competition! The nerve!
I just don't see how making users sift through half a dozen app stores to find what they want is a good experience - especially since I doubt app prices will be any lower outside the AppStore. Reminds me of the bad old days of having to go to many, many websites to buy software for my old Palm PDAs.
 
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