iOS 17 to Support App Sideloading to Comply With European Regulations

[Shirasaki]

Customers don't design products. Companies design products, and customers either like it or they don't. Buy or not. And yes, Apple decides how its products works. They made the thing.

If company designs products that no one enjoy to use or buy, company will go out of business eventually. Apple don’t get to decide how its products works, customer decides, and Apple delivers.

 

[makitango]

I feel like some people here are definitely part of Apple‘s paid social media army. Very easily spotted by just repeating the PR propaganda without providing any proof. And saying it‘s against customer choice when there are here alone already a number of people who want this. Now, scale this up to the actual user base and then again to potential customers waiting for it, and the numbers are too huge to silence anymore.
But I guess that‘s what Apple is most afraid of, of people who want more from their devices to becoming more visible.

 

[djphat2000]

If company designs products that no one enjoy to use or buy, company will go out of business eventually.

Yes.

Apple don’t get to decide how its products works, customer decides, and Apple delivers.

Yes they do. They don't get to make people like it or buy it. Like the Newton or the first HomePod.
People get to decide if they like/buy the product or not. People may have beta's versions to help a company fine tune a product. And some input on how it functions or works etc. But, the company decides what it wants anything it makes to do, how it works/functions etc. Within the law of course.

 

[makitango]

Yes.

Yes they do. They don't get to make people like it or buy it. Like the Newton or the first HomePod.
People get to decide if they like/buy the product or not. People may have beta's versions to help a company fine tune a product. And some input on how it functions or works etc. But, the company decides what it wants anything it makes to do, how it works/functions etc. Within the law of course.

Actually, the board gets to decide and Apple itself gets to deliver. As boards go, development into any direction is always metered so that there is the smallest investment needed to just stay 1 mm ahead of the competition, enough to buy products of the brand, but not enough to actually bring the tech forward anymore, or have breakthroughs. A lot of creative people at Apple quit because of that, because they can no longer see their ideas materialize within 5-10 years, since the roadmap is already set.

 

[dk001]

Actually, the board gets to decide and Apple itself gets to deliver. As boards go, development into any direction is always metered so that there is the smallest investment needed to just stay 1 mm ahead of the competition, enough to buy products of the brand, but not enough to actually bring the tech forward anymore, or have breakthroughs. A lot of creative people at Apple quit because of that, because they can no longer see their ideas materialize within 5-10 years, since the roadmap is already set.

One of the items I have come to look at with disappointment from Apple, is the apparent never ending, call it growing, bugs that migrate across builds. Add to this the real lack of hardware improvement outside things like the CPU/GPU and have minimal changes touted as groundbreaking. Prime example: Sim tray.

For those who become disappointed in Apple, having Android, which many Apple users dislike for a myriad of reasons, as the only alternative option traps them into the Apple world. This has migrated from the public enthusiasm to acceptance. Think back to the launch day lines. For many looking at purchases, the yearly update or every other year update to "mine still works fine" is becoming more the norm.

I am not sure where it was or is currently housed, but Apple has lost their mojo. Perhaps this change and how Apple designs and implements this can bring a bit of it back. Sadly though, I doubt it.

 

[makitango]

One of the items I have come to look at with disappointment from Apple, is the apparent never ending, call it growing, bugs that migrate across builds. Add to this the real lack of hardware improvement outside things like the CPU/GPU and have minimal changes touted as groundbreaking. Prime example: Sim tray.

For those who become disappointed in Apple, having Android, which many Apple users dislike for a myriad of reasons, as the only alternative option traps them into the Apple world. This has migrated from the public enthusiasm to acceptance. Think back to the launch day lines. For many looking at purchases, the yearly update or every other year update to "mine still works fine" is becoming more the norm.

I am not sure where it was or is currently housed, but Apple has lost their mojo. Perhaps this change and how Apple designs and implements this can bring a bit of it back. Sadly though, I doubt it.

Agreed, the yearly keynotes were much more exciting at the start, when new things were coming everytime. Now it‘s always the same things, but with a new version number. A higher clock speed. Or else

 

[bobthebuilderissus]

I know what side loading is, I was one of the first thousand beta testers for Saurik and Erica Sadun.

The reason they are cheaper on the Google Play Store is the ease of pirating software. Android is just way too open. They try their hardest, I guess?, to block it, but I could pirate Minecraft Android right now no issues other than stupid inconveniences. So, they have lowered the prices to encourage legal software purchasing.

If the cost to entry is low enough, piracy just evaporates (Steve's $0.99 a song argument). And it is proven at this point with streaming services reversing the tide of Artistic Intellectual Property Theft.

I am not dooming and glooming intelligent folks. They know that's not the issue for them. It's the 98.5% who are not technology literate who could think a Third Party Store somehow means better/cheaper/etc. What happens if they look for "Cheap Apple App Store" on Google? They then might get a lesser quality store.

Remember, Apple will have ZERO control over who wants to "side load" an App Store. They won't be able to approve, disapprove, etc. Sure, they'll be able to block certain app stores just because they own the OS and the App Store has proven to be untrustworthy. But then that's a whole other legal avenue for people to pile on their uneducated cries of monopoly, anti-trust, tyranny, etc (despite not holding a degree or experience in those fields). And then those same people continue to support the greatest Trust/Monopoly in history, government, bullying large corporations because they can't break encryption and feel small in their booties.

I am just worried because I am IT for about 45 people in my immediate family (cousins, uncles, aunts, grandparents, etc) and I use an MDM to keep their devices pretty much locked down. I am worried now because a few cousins have asked if I am gonna allow them to have the Third Party App Stores and I have said "maybe" and "depends".

And my job is pretty much that but for assisting CTO with tens of thousands of employees in our company MDM (which we already have let them know company devices will NOT be allowed outside of the Apple App Store).

Nerds and Geeks will be fine for the most part. It's Bob Coffee I am worried about.

my brother also has a pirated version of minecraft on his iphone 11 too, soo-
also, I'm assuming your an full grown adult, so why are you locking down other adult's devices....?

 

[bobthebuilderissus]

Many carriers support eSIM, and tehy can be removed. In the US, almost all carriers support eSIM, and unlike a physical sim someone can't steal it and put it in another phone.

... you do realize sim cards can be tracked by looking at what tower they ping off of, right? and you can't just toss a sim card into any phone, especially due to carrier restriction, and size differences...

 

[djphat2000]

One of the items I have come to look at with disappointment from Apple, is the apparent never ending, call it growing, bugs that migrate across builds.

It's been that way for "some" time. Thankfully I run into few of them. But, this is an issue.

Add to this the real lack of hardware improvement outside things like the CPU/GPU and have minimal changes touted as groundbreaking. Prime example: Sim tray.

I disagree. I can't understand why there is so much expectation past what Apple has done. As if the CPU/GPU (M1/M2) isn't a groundbreaking improvement. Or the A series for that matter. I feel as though it gets minimized VERY quickly after they announced it. Then when they make any improvement to it (M2). It's viewed as a marginal improvement if at all. Like, seriously show me something better in that power envelope? And when is 10-15% improvement not good? IDK. I don't know what people want. And not having a SIM to deal with sounds like a pretty good idea. Considering they have changed sizes over the years. Kind of a PITA to have to swap out. Now, you don't have to worry about it at all. And you have 2 of them? Nothing to lose... IDK... Weird.

For those who become disappointed in Apple, having Android, which many Apple users dislike for a myriad of reasons, as the only alternative option traps them into the Apple world.

These words make it seem like we are in some kind of dystopian world. You're not trapped. Sorry someone doesn't make exactly what you want in a device. I'm sure that isn't cool, but you can pick between an open and a closed device that best suits your needs. As an Apple user for a LONG time (like many here). There are things I wish Apple would do. More so on macOS than on the iPhone. But, I don't go petitioning my government to force them to do it. Or think they are any more greedy of a corporation than any other. Only wanting my dollars, and trapping me in the Walled garden for my troubles.

This has migrated from the public enthusiasm to acceptance. Think back to the launch day lines. For many looking at purchases, the yearly update or every other year update to "mine still works fine" is becoming more the norm.

Pre-Online ordering most likely curbed the launch day lines more than anything else. I have personally NEVER gone to a launch day for an iPhone. I only did for MacOS X, twice. Once for the initial beta (I got it at CompUSA!). And Jaguar (Which I got the same day at an Apple Store).

These devices last a long time, and have support for a long time. But, there are those (myself included) that like a new phone every year. And because you can trade in the old one. It makes it an easy choice for me to do that. Not everyone needs a new phone, or wants one. Which is fine. As they are well made, and updated for years afterwards.

I am not sure where it was or is currently housed, but Apple has lost their mojo.

I've heard this for YEARS. Still waiting for that mojo to die.

Perhaps this change and how Apple designs and implements this can bring a bit of it back. Sadly though, I doubt it.

If you think the mojo is gone. Then I wouldn't expect them to make any changes that will convince you otherwise.
I for one enjoy my Ultra Watch. iPhone 14, iPad M2, Mac Studio M1 Max. Personally waiting on my 2019 intel 16' MacBook Pro to be 5 years old. Then that's getting replaced. By then, should be M3's out!

 

[dk001]

It's been that way for "some" time. Thankfully I run into few of them. But, this is an issue.

Just wish they would put some effort into it

I disagree. I can't understand why there is so much expectation past what Apple has done. As if the CPU/GPU (M1/M2) isn't a groundbreaking improvement. Or the A series for that matter. I feel as though it gets minimized VERY quickly after they announced it. Then when they make any improvement to it (M2). It's viewed as a marginal improvement if at all. Like, seriously show me something better in that power envelope? And when is 10-15% improvement not good? IDK. I don't know what people want. And not having a SIM to deal with sounds like a pretty good idea. Considering they have changed sizes over the years. Kind of a PITA to have to swap out. Now, you don't have to worry about it at all. And you have 2 of them? Nothing to lose... IDK... Weird.

When it comes to CPU/GPU it seems more like a commodity item - i3, i5, i7. i9, M1, M2 .... Apple makes it the center piece and serves up % faster, etc... After w while it is same ol' same ol'. Not saying it isn't good, rather it is pretty much meaningless in most cases. It's a bit faster should not be the keynote headline.

Sim for me is good for the future once the Carriers have the bugs ironed out and I can travel 3rd world and do an easy swap. Getting better but not there. Even worse when the 14 launched. NRFPT and Apple just drops it on us. Year one or two make it an option. Maybe mandatory by the 16?

These words make it seem like we are in some kind of dystopian world. You're not trapped. Sorry someone doesn't make exactly what you want in a device. I'm sure that isn't cool, but you can pick between an open and a closed device that best suits your needs. As an Apple user for a LONG time (like many here). There are things I wish Apple would do. More so on macOS than on the iPhone. But, I don't go petitioning my government to force them to do it. Or think they are any more greedy of a corporation than any other. Only wanting my dollars, and trapping me in the Walled garden for my troubles.

You are trapped. You have two choices; iOS or Android. I'm talking general consumer. Like I mentioned, if you have an iPhone, are becoming disillusioned with it and dislike Android (for whatever reason) you have no options.

Pre-Online ordering most likely curbed the launch day lines more than anything else. I have personally NEVER gone to a launch day for an iPhone. I only did for MacOS X, twice. Once for the initial beta (I got it at CompUSA!). And Jaguar (Which I got the same day at an Apple Store).

Lines and super enthusiasm used to be the norm for launches. not anymore. Maybe online ordering is the new but even that seems subdued.

These devices last a long time, and have support for a long time. But, there are those (myself included) that like a new phone every year. And because you can trade in the old one. It makes it an easy choice for me to do that. Not everyone needs a new phone, or wants one. Which is fine. As they are well made, and updated for years afterwards.

👍

I've heard this for YEARS. Still waiting for that mojo to die.

If you think the mojo is gone. Then I wouldn't expect them to make any changes that will convince you otherwise.
I for one enjoy my Ultra Watch. iPhone 14, iPad M2, Mac Studio M1 Max. Personally waiting on my 2019 intel 16' MacBook Pro to be 5 years old. Then that's getting replaced. By then, should be M3's out!

Great design! Great hardware! Great software! It just works!
Nowadays that is no longer the case. The MBA is pretty good and the AWU too but everything else is unchanged. Stale. As for the software.... sigh. We are being incrementally improved at best.

Each year for the last few there has been the "hold our breath" wait for the next big thing. We are still waiting.

 

[Muzzakus]

Seems many people are praising this, but this is a terrible decision for all iOS users. You can say "I won't be installing any side loading apps", but the problem is there will be a subset of apps, games, and other stuff that will require it. Or if you have kids, they will bug you for it. A perfect example of the issues you will see is if you are a Windows user and play games. There are a ton of different stores you need to install just to play a game on your Windows machine. You've got the Windows Store, Steam store, Blizzard Store, Epic Store, and others. Call of Duty, sometimes it comes out on the Steam Store, sometimes it comes out on the Blizzard Store. You have to install it wherever and sign up for an account. Activision has their thing too. Some games are installed out of the Blizzard store, but you still need to create an Activision account to play those games. You have to keep these stores running in the background all the time, they constantly have to update theirselves. EA also has their own thing. Installing a game has become so complicated on Windows because of all of these stores and different accounts that need to be setup. Epic is not going to release games anymore on the App Store, so any of those games will require maintaining the Epic Store store. Since the obvious security concerns, some iOS apps may not work with another store installed. We've seen that with the jailbreak community where apps were specially written to look to see if you had a jailbroken phone and would disable themselves. You'd see that with AT&T apps, games, and other things. Some security software if you use your phone for work would also not work. This will be a huge mess, and will not benefit the consumer at all. There will be NO discounts using someone else's store of the AppStore as they all change the same commission anyways. Wish people would see this and understand this.

Sideloaded content still runs in a secure sandbox no different to store apps. Just the place you get it from can differ. This will essentially bring a Mac like experience to mobile devices.

 

[makitango]

Sideloaded content still runs in a secure sandbox no different to store apps. Just the place you get it from can differ. This will essentially bring a Mac like experience to mobile devices.

True. They know nothing about the OS architecture yet they shout danger for doors that have been locked for years.
People don‘t seem to understand that all those access prompts to their personal data happen just the dame on App Store apps as they do on unlisted apps.
And as for additional app stores: Those publishers will have to see if the customers are okay with it. If the broad userbase is, then our nerdy forum talks don‘t matter to them anymore, as they already never did.

People will have voted with their wallets and Apple would have lost their grip on the matter on who gets to develop apps and who doesn‘t.

 

[djphat2000]

Actually, the board gets to decide and Apple itself gets to deliver. As boards go, development into any direction is always metered so that there is the smallest investment needed to just stay 1 mm ahead of the competition, enough to buy products of the brand, but not enough to actually bring the tech forward anymore, or have breakthroughs. A lot of creative people at Apple quit because of that, because they can no longer see their ideas materialize within 5-10 years, since the roadmap is already set.

It was the board that got rid of SJ for the direction he wanted to take the company. But it is the CEO's job to lead the company. Of which they have the ability to do until otherwise voted out or if lucky, Retire. If the CEO isn't doing the job, they vote that person out and replace them with someone that has the vision and the knowhow, wherewithal to get the job done.
Sometimes, the board is wrong. Just like sometimes the CEO is wrong.

As far as people leaving due to not being able to bring new tech forward. I'm sure that happens more often than ever gets reported. But, it is every companies responsibility to balance out what they can do with the resources they have and properly plan out a way to achieve long term goals. Sometimes they get it wrong, and waste all those years/work hours/resources in the process. Sometimes they get it right, and the reward is they get to do it again.

 

[Realityck]

After years of silence, Apple finally reveals how many App Store users it has in Europe

The European Digital Services Act is about to be fully enforced, and as part of the law, Apple has been forced to disclose how many users it has in Europe for the first time in five years.

appleinsider.com

The European Digital Services Act is about to be fully enforced, and as part of the law, Apple has been forced to disclose how many users it has in Europe for the first time in five years.


As part of its mandatory reporting for the European Union Digital Services Act (DSA), Apple has been forced to publish discrete user numbers for online services. The values only apply to Europe.

• iOS App Store: 101 million
• iPadOS App Store: 23 million
• macOS App Store: 6 million
• tvOS App Store: 1 million
• watchOS App Store: under 1 million
• Apple Books: under 1 million
• Podcasts paid subscriptions: under 1 million

There is very nearly a one to one correlation of hardware uses to App Store

Apple is counting each version of the App Store as a distinct user platform under the DSA. As such, only the iOS App Store is subject to being called a "very large online platform" in accordance with the new law.

However, the company says that it will adhere to the DSA for all of its App Stores "because the goals of the DSA align with Apple's goals to protect consumers from illegal content."

Apple's first quarter of 2019 was when Apple no longer reported user numbers. Guidance was issued at the time that discrete hardware sale quantities were less materially relevant as the company had already been shifting to a Services-centric model for years at that point.

 

[djphat2000]

Just wish they would put some effort into it

Agreed.

When it comes to CPU/GPU it seems more like a commodity item - i3, i5, i7. i9, M1, M2 .... Apple makes it the center piece and serves up % faster, etc... After w while it is same ol' same ol'. Not saying it isn't good, rather it is pretty much meaningless in most cases. It's a bit faster should not be the keynote headline.

I'd argue it's the centerpiece of the system. Intel doesn't have Neural acceleration. And AMD only recently added it.
It smokes any integrated iGPU from either company, and gets WAY to close to dedicated GPU's with 4x or more power requirements. What other CPU-GPU has memory bandwidth up to 800GBps? Literally only the Nvidia top end GPU's.

As for the A series, still no other SOC on a mobile can touch it.

Sim for me is good for the future once the Carriers have the bugs ironed out and I can travel 3rd world and do an easy swap. Getting better but not there. Even worse when the 14 launched. NRFPT and Apple just drops it on us. Year one or two make it an option. Maybe mandatory by the 16?

If I had to guess (only a guess). Apple weighed how many people swap SIM (for travel and or any other needs). And how many places supported eSIM. No different than when they removed the floppy drive. At some point the use vs the benefit of moving forward makes the decision easy. And just like with the floppy drive. There are going to be enough people that it will affect negatively. 2 or so years later. It's an afterthought.

You are trapped. You have two choices; iOS or Android. I'm talking general consumer. Like I mentioned, if you have an iPhone, are becoming disillusioned with it and dislike Android (for whatever reason) you have no options.

We can't please everyone. Others (companies) have tried and failed to remain and or enter the market. We have few options because "We" did it to ourselves. We picked the winners of the mobile wars.

I would still argue that if Apple doesn't cover your bases for wants and needs. One should be able to find an Android OS device that does. From the design of the device, to how customizable it is to alter the OS. And for a price point that is even more attainable for most. Heck, I think someone makes a phone you can actually build yourself (Linus Tech tips review, can't remember the brand). I get it, it's not like how many car manufactures we have or places to buy a home. But we have lived with few OS's for a LONG time (Microsoft, macOS, linux/UNIX). And from that we have plenty of options on hardware and software combinations to work with.

The OS is limited to two options. But, what handset makers are doing with it can vary enough to provide the choices most will be happy with.

Lines and super enthusiasm used to be the norm for launches. not anymore. Maybe online ordering is the new but even that seems subdued.

Last sales reported lower YoY. However, pandemic and supply chain issues played into those sales numbers.
Apple makes money on iPhones. Without the lines of years past. If anything, due to people holding on it longer than in the past like you stated. That would have a bigger bump in sales 2 or 3 years later. So not as smooth of an uphill trend, but still up.

👍


Great design! Great hardware! Great software! It just works!
Nowadays that is no longer the case. The MBA is pretty good and the AWU too but everything else is unchanged. Stale. As for the software.... sigh. We are being incrementally improved at best.

Everything changed with M1/M2. I will have to disagree on the incremental improvements. Software will catch up (as it always does).

Each year for the last few there has been the "hold our breath" wait for the next big thing. We are still waiting.

M1 is a bit over 2 years old. Still waiting on M2 Ultra/Extreme and MacPro. Same for iMac Pro. But these are expected in the next year or so.

Which brings me to my larger point. If everyone is looking for "more". When Apple delivers that big jump. The expectation is that next year you will get another BIG jump?
When Apple came out with the iPod. It was a big jump over other media players. They improved it over time, refined it etc. It wasn't a major leap over the previous model until it was all screen a-la iPhone. Which was a leap over current mobile phones. Gets refined, faster, bigger, better, longer lasting batteries, better SOC, OS improvements year over year over year. The iWatch, same thing same process. Now I have the model I wish I could have had first. But, had to wait for those year over year refinements and improvements. I love this Ultra, but still wish it was a larger screen. My iPad Pro M2. I had the M1 and traded up. Instead of using my laptop for DJ'ing. I use the iPad. It's faster, has better battery life, and lighter than the MacBook Pro.

Point being if your someone that keeps what they have, be it phone or computer or tablet for years. Getting the newest device years later. Will be an enormous improvement from what you had. When reviewers come out and say don't buy M2 over an M1 it's only a 10-15% improvement. They somehow miss those folks coming from a 5 or 7 year old device. If you're like me and enjoy having the newest device either because you can do it or if you need to for your work or whatever. Yeah, the improvements are not going to be leaps and bounds better every upgrade. But they still make improvements that add up.

 

[tranceme]

Nonsense. If you install MS Office on the Mac, do you lose software support there also?

Apple doesn‘t even offer software support for third party apps on the App Store, and also doesn‘t have to. It has, however, to offer support for the OS.

Good point. you are correct on the hardware front. I meant OS level. And, yes, if your OS is hacked. Apple tells you reload your OS. They don't support you outside of this. Same for the iPhone.

 

[inuragon]

But, the company decides what it wants anything it makes to do, how it works/functions etc. Within the law of course.

Yes, within law and regulations, and this includes EU regulations that give the users freedom to install programs without restrictions.

 

[inuragon]

See, the App Store is a door into the iOS ecosystem. A Front Door, if you will. With a GIANT padlock called "The App Review Team". What they do is filter out malware, scams, deadbeat devs with no effort Safari clones, and porn.

Indeed, app review team is like a bouncer that you can't get rid of who filters stuff regardless of whether the user likes it or not.
Personally i like porn like tons of other people, having apple block that from me is pretty nonsensical.
Same goes with vaping.

Finally, someone with integrity around here. It's not a ripoff, or a tax, it's payment for access to 2 Billion Users.....for pretty much free.

Weird how windows or mac os doesn't need such payments

It's the 98.5% who are not technology literate who could think a Third Party Store somehow means better/cheaper/etc. What happens if they look for "Cheap Apple App Store" on Google? They then might get a lesser quality store.

We should not restrict features based on the lowest common denominator.

Emulators are not exactly legal space here. I'm sure Nintendo, Sega, Sony, Microsoft, etc. Would all prefer you not do this. It is their copyright/trademark/patents/etc. they would be protecting.

Emulators are perfectly legal and atleast 3 of the listed companies use them.

 

[inuragon]

So if a malicious app is packaged very nicely and a user downloads it and the phone is no longer functional, will Applecare+ be valid?

If the phone can be broken so badly it needs warranty repairs simply from installing app then that is clearly design error and apples fault, such thing doesn't happen with PCs and shouldn't with mobile devices either.

I’m tired of debunking similar statements about macs and computers. A phone is very different from a computer. I don’t take my 50 pound computer to the store and chat with my wife on it. My computers are locked down and I don’t do banking on it. My phone knows my health more than my PC. At please stop treating it is if phones and PCs are equal. I don’t want my phone held at ransom when I need to call with an urgent issue.

But your mac is logged into your apple account and malware could access icloud backups of all your personal data.

It’s the Apple’s platform: hardware and software.

Actually the point i paid money for the device it became my hardware.

Apple should deny parts of the API to apps that aren't in the app store. Want notifications API access? Then pay your 30% or too bad. No developer should make $ off the APIs that Apple has spent billions to make over all this time without paying their fair share.

Just give sideloaded apps the most barebones API access and sandbox them so the experience isn't worth it. Problem solved.

Paying for APIs? Are you serious? OS APIs have always been basic part of the OS not something to monetize.

Your point? Mentioning the fact that I’m an American isn’t the “gotcha” you’re probably looking for.

USA has literally done illegal wiretapping of european citizens, point is your government is totally on different level of world policing

I consider the $99/annum I pay to Apple for a Developer enrollement, in part, my side-loading fee. Plenty of interesting iOS source code (in Swift, etc.) on GitHub to play with.

Some people don't want to pay for basic features.

Yes everyone needs emulators. For the people who want emulators: you do own a valid copy of every game you want to run in an emulator, right?

No, i pirate a lot of roms, but that is not at all relevant to the topic at hand.

Hope Apple forces all sideloaded app to run as root.

Funny to see some people talk about the security issues and then geniuses like you suggesting purposefully adding security issues.

I’ve thought the same about a subscription model. But the EU will probably whine about how third parties have the right to develop for iOS (for free of course).

Yes, developing on iOS should be free like it has typically been for computers in the past.

What gives you the right to demand anything from Apple?

I am a paying customer?

You asked. I answered. Hence my reply.
In the EU you pay to own, in the US you pay to use.

This is the core issue, i own the device so i should be able to install whatever i want on it.

 

[inuragon]

funny things all the company who started this witch hunt (Epic, Spotify ...) they would be nobodies today without iPhone, Fortnite popularity came from iPhone players

Maybe you should look at how popular unreal engine is before you say something silly.
Epic would not be as big without fortnite but they would be far from nobodies.

 

[djphat2000]

Emulators are perfectly legal and atleast 3 of the listed companies use them.

George Carlin:
1) Selling is Legal
2) ****ing is Legal
3) Why isn't Selling ****ing legal?

Sure you can get an emulator. How you going to play a game without the ROM's?
Don't like it, don't buy it. Don't rain on anyone else's parade to achieve what you want. It's perfectly legal for you to get a product (that totally exists by the way) that works the way you want it to WITHOUT having to change another product into something it isn't.

Otherwise, invent a device that does what you want. And if enough other people like what you built. Sell it.

 

[inuragon]

Sure you can get an emulator. How you going to play a game without the ROM's?
Don't like it, don't buy it. Don't rain on anyone else's parade to achieve what you want.

1. Where i get the roms doesn't change the legality of emulators.
2. You can get legal roms.
3. Even if i pirate roms it is irrelevant to the topic at hand... especially since i can already store pirated roms and other pirated content on iOS devices.
As for the other part i don't know what you are even saying, the fact that i own an ipad and iphone clearly means i like the devices, and now that they will get an extra feature i like them even more.
I am not raining on anyone else's parade, i am just happy that in the future i will have more freedom with the devices i own.

WITHOUT having to change another product into something it isn't.

iOS already is a computer running programs, i fail to see how removing a simple limitation is changing it to something it isn't.

It's perfectly legal for you to get a product

It is also perfectly legal for EU to force apple to change their devices to offer customers more freedoms, and luckily they have done that... so i'll keep my ipad and iphone thank you very much.

 

[djphat2000]

1. Where i get the roms doesn't change the legality of emulators.

It makes them pretty pointless.

2. You can get legal roms.

You can rip them from the original Carts, disks, etc. Fair use for games you already own. If you don't.... I suppose it can matter what country you're from. But, generally it's illegal.

3. Even if i pirate roms it is irrelevant to the topic at hand...

It's the starting point for Apple. Why allow an emulator on their platform (their's not yours, theirs) that is only to play games MOST people will pirate, and is mostly illegal? I have emulators running on my Nvidia Shield, and a few TB of roms for a verity of systems. I can do this WITHOUT Apple.

especially since i can already store pirated roms and other pirated content on iOS devices.

Apple is under no obligation to assist you with that process. If you figured out a way to do it. Good for you. It's not Apples job to enable you to do so.

As for the other part i don't know what you are even saying, the fact that i own an ipad and iphone clearly means i like the devices, and now that they will get an extra feature i like them even more.
I am not raining on anyone else's parade, i am just happy that in the future i will have more freedom with the devices i own.

No one was hampering your freedom before the new laws. I"m glad you liked them enough to make the purchase. But, some of us like them the way they are and are not looking to "add" these features. If it hasn't been said enough, I'll say it again. We (the other people that like Apple products) preferred it the way it was (is). We bought it knowing exactly what it was/is. If we wanted all the extra stuff coming in the future. We would have bought Android.

iOS already is a computer running programs, i fail to see how removing a simple limitation is changing it to something it isn't.

its a mobile phone OS. iPadOS is just as, for lack of a better word "miniaturized" version of OS X.
Can you program whatever you want the OS to be, sure.. But, then you would end up with an OS that does more than it needs to do for a device with a 5th the battery capacity and always on cellular connectivity. If you want a phone computer device. Samsung makes pretty good ones, and so does Google now with the Pixel fold.

It is also perfectly legal for EU to force apple to change their devices to offer customers more freedoms, and luckily they have done that... so i'll keep my ipad and iphone thank you very much.

Something that has been repeated, but again. Most don't side load even when they have the ability to do it on the most popular platform (android). So for the few, they get to expose the rest of us to the "benefits" of more ways to break into our devices.

 

[inuragon]

Why allow an emulator on their platform (their's not yours, theirs)

Sideloading allows me to install apps to my device, not apples platform which is app store.
The point where a consumer pays 1000 for a device it is no longer apples platform, it is the consumers device, and apple should respect the consumers rights to use that device freely.

I have emulators running on my Nvidia Shield, and a few TB of roms for a verity of systems. I can do this WITHOUT Apple.

Ah, the good old "i don't need this so no one needs this" said by the center of the world.
I and most other people on the other hand don't own nvidia shields.

Apple is under no obligation to assist you with that process.

True, but now they are obligated to not hinder with that process, which is awesome.
Though i guess you'd prefer if they instead removed things like the media player that lots of people use to watch pirated content.

No one was hampering your freedom before the new laws.

My freedom to install apps was indeed being hampered, otherwise we would not be here.

But, some of us like them the way they are and are not looking to "add" these features.

That's life, it doesn't always go the way you want, this time EU decided that people asking for more freedom was more important than people asking for restrictions based on weak arguments.

We (the other people that like Apple products) preferred it the way it was (is). We bought it knowing exactly what it was/is.

Oh, sorry i forgot i was speaking to the appointed head of all apple users, my bad /s
In reality there are lots of apple users happy about this change.

If we wanted all the extra stuff coming in the future. We would have bought Android.

So you bought iOS simply based on installing apps not being freely allowed, personally i think iOS has tons of other reasons that make it better than android but i guess you think both are just as good except for this one feature.

its a mobile phone OS. iPadOS is just as, for lack of a better word "miniaturized" version of OS X.
Can you program whatever you want the OS to be, sure.. But, then you would end up with an OS that does more than it needs to do for a device with a 5th the battery capacity and always on cellular connectivity. If you want a phone computer device. Samsung makes pretty good ones, and so does Google now with the Pixel fold.

Allowing sideloading wont affect the battery life or cellular connectivity, you are just spouting nonsense at this point.
Also smart phones are phone computer devices, there is no difference in that between samsung and apple.

So for the few, they get to expose the rest of us to the "benefits" of more ways to break into our devices.

Simply don't enable sideloading and there should be no more ways to break into your device.
Also let me tell you a secret, tons of people around the world use windows, mac os, linux and android daily without issues despite having unrestricted app installing, those platforms are not some hellscape of 24/7 malware people here would like you to believe, so assuming you are an adult you should manage.

 

[Abazigal]

Also let me tell you a secret, tons of people around the world use windows, mac os, linux and android daily without issues despite having unrestricted app installing, those platforms are not some hellscape of 24/7 malware people here would like you to believe, so assuming you are an adult you should manage.

There’s always two sides to every story.

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