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Notice how android phones were specifically called out here, and iPhones were deemed more secure in the articles.

Using both systems and on both I have been seeing a serious uptick in phishing Messages, emails, calls, etc... lately.
Web-pages - oh yeah! Links galore. Sounding and looking official - yes. App installs? No.

There are always going to be nefarious attempts to get users to do something that will allow criminals to get something from them. Education and paying attention is key. Still, it is not 100%.

For the second example, not sure about his bank, mine holds these types of transaction if not normal examples of what I do and verifies with me before completing.
 
Using both systems and on both I have been seeing a serious uptick in phishing Messages, emails, calls, etc... lately.
Web-pages - oh yeah! Links galore. Sounding and looking official - yes. App installs? No.

There are always going to be nefarious attempts to get users to do something that will allow criminals to get something from them. Education and paying attention is key. Still, it is not 100%.

For the second example, not sure about his bank, mine holds these types of transaction if not normal examples of what I do and verifies with me before completing.
This is exactly on point, no matter what system you use you should learn to recognize scams.
Personally i got a scam sms on my iphone a while ago that said i had a package incoming, and weird thing is it was in the same message thread as real package notifications.
The first example could have been done as well with a scam website.
 
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Sideloading allows me to install apps to my device, not apples platform which is app store.
The point where a consumer pays 1000 for a device it is no longer apples platform, it is the consumers device, and apple should respect the consumers rights to use that device freely.
They made the device to work they way they did. You own the device, and can do with it as you wish. The conflict here is that you expect Apple to make it work the way you want it to work. Which isn't the correct way to look at this issue. You can do whatever you are able to do with the device you purchased. You can't expect Apple or any company to make what you want to do with it easier when they did not make it that way to begin with. Hence it is their design, their platform, their intentions to make something to sell to the masses. You want it to work the way you want it to. Which is fine. But, you can't make Apple do it. Its wrong.

Tomorrow they could stop making the iPhone, and you have no say in that.
Ah, the good old "i don't need this so no one needs this" said by the center of the world.
I and most other people on the other hand don't own nvidia shields.
But, it would serve the purpose you currently are looking for. Someone makes a device that would do what you want. Except you want another company to do that for you, and they currently don't. No one ever said you can't have or do what you want with what you own. Just don't expect the company you purchased the device from to make it easy for you to do what you want.
True, but now they are obligated to not hinder with that process, which is awesome.
Though i guess you'd prefer if they instead removed things like the media player that lots of people use to watch pirated content.
Yes, they are now obligated to create holes in the system/device/OS. Which is just wonderful if you ask me......
Be a pirate all you want. Just don't turn the cruise ship I'm on into a pirate ship. You can have yours, and I can have mine. But, this new law. Will eventually make it so all devices "can" operate the same. Which means Apple will eventually move all versions of iOS to this same version of iOS to keep management simplified. Taking away my freedom to purchase a locked down device away. For the minority of those that will even use it in this new way.

It is completely unfair.
My freedom to install apps was indeed being hampered, otherwise we would not be here.
It wasn't. you purchased a device with those limitations. You choose. I and others choose to purchase a device WITH these limitations. We both are free to pick from it or another device that can accommodate our needs without infringing on the others freedoms.
That's life, it doesn't always go the way you want, this time EU decided that people asking for more freedom was more important than people asking for restrictions based on weak arguments.
I don't see anything indicating people wanted this in a meaningful enough way. The majority of people don't side load on a platform that allows it and is the most popular platform for years. The EU just wants the market to be bigger. However, in doing so they will open up a product that was built to be more closed and increase the risks to that device going forward. Which includes the consumer they are trying to protect from monopolies.

That is life, you don't always get what you want. And you don't aways get what you ask for. Sometimes it bites you in the arse when you least expect it.
Oh, sorry i forgot i was speaking to the appointed head of all apple users, my bad /s
In reality there are lots of apple users happy about this change.
Really? What, one in 100? Most don't even know about this.
So you bought iOS simply based on installing apps not being freely allowed, personally i think iOS has tons of other reasons that make it better than android but i guess you think both are just as good except for this one feature.
I bought what I bought knowing what I bought has its limitations. I have access to all the apps I need, a design I like, and features I need and enjoy using. If I wanted at any time to do more than what this could do for me. I would purchase an Android.

I work in IT and been doing so for decades. From helpdesk to DC infrastructure management and security. I deal with people all the time. Most don't know anything about this stuff, nor care. They just want their device to work reliably. Those of us that know what we are doing and or care about the stuff discussed here. Half of us purchase iPhones. The others like to do more on their phones, and purchase Android (of various brands). Most of us are generally happy with the options we have. It's not about one being better than the other. That comes down to personal preference. But, if you want what you state you want. You purchased the wrong device. Your money is your vote to Apple that they are not delivering a product that suits you. And paying for an Android and getting the features and freedoms you want is a vote for more of those kinds of products. If more people did that, the laws wouldn't need to be changed. Apple would have to adjust to compete and be more open. OR, they don't sell enough to make a profit and fail.
Allowing sideloading wont affect the battery life or cellular connectivity, you are just spouting nonsense at this point.
Your opinion. But the point still stands that this is not a laptop. While it maybe more powerful that some on the market. It is mini, and has to deal with physics like anything else. You don't render a feature length movie on an iPad do you? Off the outlet power at that? These are different devices for different use cases and built as such.
Also smart phones are phone computer devices, there is no difference in that between samsung and apple.
I think you're incorrect in your statement. They are different. Should my Apple watch be considered the same as an iPhone? It has virtually the same stuff as an iPhone. Basically built from the same SOC as an iPhone.

Everything is a computer device. Any IoT device is a computer. But, you're not going to run a video game on a Nest thermostat, or DooM on an Apple or Samsung watch. Or run Final Cut on your iPhone. Apple makes a device/hardware that fits the purpose of the software. Everything has use cases and limitations and features better or worse for something than another device in the same category or other similar category. You purchase the tool for the job. Do you go for a jog with your laptop so you can make a phone call if need be, or listen to music? No, you use an iPhone with AirPods or other headphones. Or you can just use the Watch and BT headphones. And on and on.
Simply don't enable sideloading and there should be no more ways to break into your device.
We are going from a device/OS with one way in. To one with more ways in. Apps that also may no longer be on the AppStore and either move to their own stores (with their own rules) and or side load only means. You simply don't care about that. And that's fine. You are free to feel that way. I don't have to feel that way. I understand how this works.
Also let me tell you a secret, tons of people around the world use windows, mac os, linux and android daily without issues despite having unrestricted app installing, those platforms are not some hellscape of 24/7 malware people here would like you to believe, so assuming you are an adult you should manage.
LOL. Do you watch or read any news? It is a hell scape. Again, I work in IT. I see the alerts CONSTANTLY. From every country (mostly in Europe and near Russia). 24/7/365.25 my friend. Enjoy your freedom!!
 
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LOL. Do you watch or read any news? It is a hell scape. Again, I work in IT. I see the alerts CONSTANTLY. From every country (mostly in Europe and near Russia). 24/7/365.25 my friend. Enjoy your freedom!!

That is part of the problem; paradigms.

Working also in IT, I get to see the problems, non-stop, and this colors my perceptions.
For every problem though, there are thousands of users daily who have no issue.

Still, it comes down to user education.
Unless you run into a really negligent setup.
 
From a risk based approach, this is pretty damn good.
For the passcode issue, it is a design flaw that is fixable without taking away functionality.
My point was the human side of it. Sure 115 is a grain of sand from billions for getting scammed just like the hundreds of well publicized cases over billions is tiny.

People could be more aware so they dont get scammed as well as protect their device passcode better.
 
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They made the device to work they way they did. You own the device, and can do with it as you wish. The conflict here is that you expect Apple to make it work the way you want it to work. Which isn't the correct way to look at this issue. You can do whatever you are able to do with the device you purchased. You can't expect Apple or any company to make what you want to do with it easier when they did not make it that way to begin with. Hence it is their design, their platform, their intentions to make something to sell to the masses. You want it to work the way you want it to. Which is fine. But, you can't make Apple do it. Its wrong.
Clearly that is not the case, EU has no issues telling apple to stop doing things they consider anti consumer.

But, it would serve the purpose you currently are looking for. Someone makes a device that would do what you want. Except you want another company to do that for you, and they currently don't. No one ever said you can't have or do what you want with what you own. Just don't expect the company you purchased the device from to make it easy for you to do what you want.
There is a difference between making things easy and not adding artificial restrictions.
It wasn't. you purchased a device with those limitations. You choose. I and others choose to purchase a device WITH these limitations. We both are free to pick from it or another device that can accommodate our needs without infringing on the others freedoms.
I had to compromise on sideloading to get all the good sides of iOS, and now i no longer have to compromise.
Also apple often adds and removes features on iOS updates, would they be infringing on your freedoms if they removed a feature you like or added a feature you don't? if not why is this any different?

Your opinion.
Nope, allowing standard iOS programs to be installed outside of app store wont affect the battery life at all, that is a fact. Installing apps that are demanding and running them will drain the battery, but it is the same as on app store, where you install the app has no effect on battery drain.
You don't render a feature length movie on an iPad do you? Off the outlet power at that? These are different devices for different use cases and built as such.
ipad is built to run ios apps, allowing those apps to be sideloaded would not change anything.
also if there's apps that do features you don't think ipad was meant to do you don't need to use them.

I think you're incorrect in your statement. They are different.
Explain to me what makes a samsung galaxy phone a phone computer device but iphone not.
Simply saying you think i'm incorrect is a weak argument.

LOL. Do you watch or read any news? It is a hell scape. Again, I work in IT. I see the alerts CONSTANTLY. From every country (mostly in Europe and near Russia). 24/7/365.25 my friend. Enjoy your freedom!!
Sure, it is a hellscape where billions of users use android and windows devices daily without any issues.
And yeah, i'm writing this on a windows pc and enjoying my freedom to not only install apps freely but also develop apps using many different compilers and SDKs, no viruses or anything.
Also the fact that you think apple enabling sideloading would magically make your battery last less makes it clear the fact you work at IT doesn't mean you are an expert.

BTW there's also news about people dying in car crashes constantly, so i guess we should also avoid that hellscape too.
 
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I feel like some people here are definitely part of Apple‘s paid social media army.
I do wonder what is the deal with many people here who seem to agree with every decision apple makes and care a lot about whether apple makes money or not, do these people own apple stocks or are they just extreme fanboys?
At least it's a change from the annoying anti apple people i have seen past months in other places.
 
Clearly that is not the case, EU has no issues telling apple to stop doing things they consider anti consumer.
The government has the right to do so. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
There is a difference between making things easy and not adding artificial restrictions.
What is artificial? They didn't let you do this from the start of the iPhone. You could write WebApps, which still works today as a way around the AppStore. The OS was built with the AppStore in mind. Not side loading in the easy manner you're suggesting it be.
I had to compromise on sideloading to get all the good sides of iOS, and now i no longer have to compromise.
There will always be compromises.
Also apple often adds and removes features on iOS updates, would they be infringing on your freedoms if they removed a feature you like or added a feature you don't? if not why is this any different?
No different than any other software I've used over the years. Features get added, some get removed and can be removed for a number of reasons. Not always good reasons, but mostly so. Difference is that "I" didn't make the software or hardware. "I" get to choose if I like it or not, want it or not, need it or not.

Apple doesn't want this "feature", they are being forced to by law that not only I disagree with (So does Apple). And once it because law the world over. I as a consumer will have to figure out a way to further secure my device and do the best I can to ensure I'm as little to no impacted by it as possible.
Nope, allowing standard iOS programs to be installed outside of app store wont affect the battery life at all, that is a fact.
I don't think I phrased it that way but, ok.
Installing apps that are demanding and running them will drain the battery, but it is the same as on app store, where you install the app has no effect on battery drain.
I think i was referring to using the iPhone more like a laptop. Which means trying to use an iPhone with 1/5th or the battery capacity as a Laptop to work similarly to a Laptop (or laptop "work") would be a bad idea, no? Like you wouldn't do it. It's a bad tool for the job. Can it? Yes, it has the power to do so. But, you wouldn't. At the very least, shouldn't.
ipad is built to run ios apps, allowing those apps to be sideloaded would not change anything.
It changes the security of the device/iOS. By increasing its surface area of attack. There are more ways into the device/OS than there is currently.
also if there's apps that do features you don't think ipad was meant to do you don't need to use them.
I trust Apple to make Apps that "will" do what the device was meant to do. I don't trust other stores to follow suit.
Explain to me what makes a samsung galaxy phone a phone computer device but iphone not.
As I stated earlier, from an IoT to a full desktop are all computers. Do you run around to office meetings with a rack server, keyboard, mouse and monitor to take notes? It's a computer right? Be practical.
Simply saying you think i'm incorrect is a weak argument.
I stated why.
Sure, it is a hellscape
Agreed.
where billions of users use android and windows devices daily without any issues.
Thankfully billons are not getting hacked daily. Well, maybe not billions (Equifax, T-Mobile, hospitals, schools, US states, and on and on).
And yeah, i'm writing this on a windows pc and enjoying my freedom to not only install apps freely but also develop apps using many different compilers and SDKs, no viruses or anything.
Good for you. I do hope you earn a great living and can enjoy the freedoms of moving about the EU and any other place you like.
Also the fact that you think apple enabling sideloading would magically make your battery last less makes it clear the fact you work at IT doesn't mean you are an expert.
You didn't understand what I stated. But, that's OK. I'm still more of an expert than those politicians in the EU or US about technology.
BTW there's also news about people dying in car crashes constantly, so i guess we should also avoid that hellscape too.
They are actively working on cars (AI) to take away driving from the people that crash them.
 
I do wonder what is the deal with many people here who seem to agree with every decision apple makes and care a lot about whether apple makes money or not, do these people own apple stocks or are they just extreme fanboys?
I own Apple Stock cause well, it makes money. Selfish I know.
I don't agree with every decision Apple makes.
I am a fan of Apple. I own(ed) plenty of their products. And used them since the Apple II.
 
What is artificial? They didn't let you do this from the start of the iPhone. You could write WebApps, which still works today as a way around the AppStore. The OS was built with the AppStore in mind. Not side loading in the easy manner you're suggesting it be.
As people have stated before developers with paid membership can already sideload apps, it is artificial as in there is no technical limitation or reason for it, it exists simply because apple chose so.

I don't think I phrased it that way but, ok.

You didn't understand what I stated. But, that's OK. I'm still more of an expert than those politicians in the EU or US about technology.
Let's look at what you said.

its a mobile phone OS. iPadOS is just as, for lack of a better word "miniaturized" version of OS X.
Can you program whatever you want the OS to be, sure.. But, then you would end up with an OS that does more than it needs to do for a device with a 5th the battery capacity and always on cellular connectivity. If you want a phone computer device. Samsung makes pretty good ones, and so does Google now with the Pixel fold.
Indeed i did not understand what you meant, because you worded your message confusingly.
I think i was referring to using the iPhone more like a laptop. Which means trying to use an iPhone with 1/5th or the battery capacity as a Laptop to work similarly to a Laptop (or laptop "work") would be a bad idea, no? Like you wouldn't do it. It's a bad tool for the job. Can it? Yes, it has the power to do so. But, you wouldn't. At the very least, shouldn't.
The issue is you never mentioned laptops, you used the phrase "5th the battery capacity" without ever saying 5th of what, so your poor wording lead me to assume you meant 5th of an non sideloading iphones battery.
Next time when you mean 5th of a laptops battery capacity maybe write that instead of just 5th the battery capacity.

I trust Apple to make Apps that "will" do what the device was meant to do. I don't trust other stores to follow suit.
Let's look at what you said earlier

Don't rain on anyone else's parade to achieve what you want.
You are raining on the parade of people who want to use apps you don't consider fit for the devices purpose.
If people want to use ipad for things it's not good at why does that affect you in any way?

Thankfully billons are not getting hacked daily. Well, maybe not billions (Equifax, T-Mobile, hospitals, schools, US states, and on and on).
Indeed, the amount of people getting hacked is a decimal of the userbase, and you throwing some words doesn't change that.
As a status update my windows pc still works fine, weird considering what a 24/7 hellscape it is, would think all my data and money would have gotten hacked already.

I own Apple Stock cause well, it makes money. Selfish I know.
Seems weird that you consider owning stocks selfish, maybe some self hate thing?

Difference is that "I" didn't make the software or hardware. "I" get to choose if I like it or not, want it or not, need it or not.
So there is no difference, you did not make the EU law and now you get to choose whether you like it or not.


I as a consumer will have to figure out a way to further secure my device and do the best I can to ensure I'm as little to no impacted by it as possible.
Not really
Don't like it, don't buy it.
If you don't like iOS after this change you are free to buy something else.
There exist phones that focus heavily on security so they will probably be more to your liking.
 
As people have stated before developers with paid membership can already sideload apps, it is artificial as in there is no technical limitation or reason for it, it exists simply because apple chose so.
Of Which apps they sell goes through the store. Again, YOU can do whatever YOU want to do with the phone. YOU can pay the developer fee and put anything YOU want on the phone, OR you can jailbreak it and do whatever YOU want to do with the phone.
Let's look at what you said.
Fair. I guess I can't assume you understood exactly what I meant. But, now you do. It was in the context of an iPhone being a compared to a computer.
Indeed i did not understand what you meant, because you worded your message confusingly.
Fair
The issue is you never mentioned laptops, you used the phrase "5th the battery capacity" without ever saying 5th of what, so your poor wording lead me to assume you meant 5th of an non sideloading iphones battery.
You could have asked. But, again fair.
Next time when you mean 5th of a laptops battery capacity maybe write that instead of just 5th the battery capacity.
.....
Let's look at what you said earlier


You are raining on the parade of people who want to use apps you don't consider fit for the devices purpose.
If people want to use ipad for things it's not good at why does that affect you in any way?
The parade for those folks that want this feature was had a long time ago on the Android platform. It continues to run to this day.
Indeed, the amount of people getting hacked is a decimal of the userbase, and you throwing some words doesn't change that.
That literally isn't what I said.
As a status update my windows pc still works fine, weird considering what a 24/7 hellscape it is, would think all my data and money would have gotten hacked already.
Ok. My PC's run pretty well too. Not that it doesn't sit behind a firewall, and have some kind of anti-malware and application whitelisting and other defense software monitoring it 24/7. But, it runs well all things considered.
Seems weird that you consider owning stocks selfish, maybe some self hate thing?
I don't.
So there is no difference, you did not make the EU law and now you get to choose whether you like it or not.
I'm arguing the topic like many others. I don't live in the EU, and I don't like the idea of this law becoming more common place. Or the hoops that Apple will have to go through to keep it "only" an EU thing. I have that right. Just like you do on wanting this new rule to take effect.
Not really

If you don't like iOS after this change you are free to buy something else.
In this again we disagree. I have a choice after this law affects me to NOT have much of a choice. I had a choice. More locked down device vs a more open one. Just like I did for years on end with Windows and Mac OS. Apples desktops are now more restricted than ever before, even when they had Power PC chips. I still preferred them over a PC. I still prefer them now over a PC. I have a Mac Studio at my office when I could have any PC I wanted.

This may come down to cultural differences between the US and the EU members. I don't agree this is the right way to go about changing Apple's products. You have another option in many different devices. You can do whatever you want with it like root it within minutes of taking it out of the box. Put whatever you want on it, use it however you want. Find it in price points that are as cheap as it gets to as expensive as it gets. But, no. We must force Apple, the only other choice in the market. To follow Android. I can't see why you're not seeing that point. I can't see why you think it's more fair to make this more open for the least amount of people that purchase this device. And then hide behind a nonsensical statement of "you don't have to install the 3rd party store, you don't have to side load". When that isn't the issue alone. And you will not see it until it affects you or someone you know. But, even then I'm sure there will be an excuse.
There exist phones that focus heavily on security so they will probably be more to your liking
I'll most likely stick with my iPhone as is for as long as I can. Then when there isn't a choice anymore. Continue to use it as locked down as I can keep it. And hope saner heads prevail.
 
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So I am insane because I would prefer choice on iOS?
Your preference is your preference. I've stated a few times already, you're entitled to your opinion on this. I don't agree with the EU government's rules in this matter. So unless you work for the EU or the US government that would be making these rules. I'm "hoping" they come to their senses before "I" no longer have the same choices I do today.
 
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you can jailbreak it and do whatever YOU want to do with the phone.
Except apple purposefully makes it hard to jailbreak and releases updates to break jailbreaking methods.
Before you say "well apple doesn't need to make it easy" there is a difference between making it easy and purposefully breaking it.

That literally isn't what I said.
Indeed you just threw random corporations and entities once again without any context so it was hard to assume what you meant.
Guess you just wanted to tell me those entities got hacked? In which case thank you, but i know hacking happens.

Ok. My PC's run pretty well too. Not that it doesn't sit behind a firewall, and have some kind of anti-malware and application whitelisting and other defense software monitoring it 24/7. But, it runs well all things considered.
Oh, so it is a hellscape of 24/7 hacking yet you too have PCs running just fine? Could it be that maybe you are overexaggerating the pc and android landscape and missing the scale of issues compared to users?

oh

I own Apple Stock cause well, it makes money. Selfish I know.
Selfish I know.
(yeah i know it was sarcasm, but since my original post never even hinted there being anything selfish about owning stocks it seemed a weird thing to bring up)

I'm arguing the topic like many others.
You seem to be missing that i am literally using your own logic, you say people who don't like the lack of sideloading on iOS should buy something else, so similarly once sideloading comes to iOS you should simply buy something else.

In this again we disagree. I have a choice after this law affects me to NOT have much of a choice. I had a choice. More locked down device vs a more open one.
Time to quote you again
invent a device that does what you want. And if enough other people like what you built. Sell it.
If you think that's reasonable thing to tell me to do it means it's totally reasonable choice for you to do, simply make your own phone that has all the lockdown you so much crave.
So you have choice actually.

This may come down to cultural differences between the US and the EU members.
Indeed.
US is way more focused in corporations and their rights to protect their platforms while EU is more focused on the consumer and the devices and software they own, this is why EU also has been talking about how you should be able to sell digital copies of software you buy while US is more like "well the companies might say they're selling software, but hidden in the license agreement they mention you actually just buy a license so nah you can't resell."
Personally i prefer focusing on the rights of consumers spending thousands of dollars on these products instead of billion dollar mega corporations, but that is the cultural difference.

We must force Apple, the only other choice in the market. To follow Android.
Yes, because android was the first OS to allow free application installing.

I can't see why you're not seeing that point.
I see your point, i just think it's ridiculous.
As i have implied you overexaggerate the dangers of android and windows hugely, and you also overexaggerate the dangers of sideloading on iOS.
You yourself admitted that you run PCs just fine, so you will manage with iOS that has sideloading.

I'll most likely stick with my iPhone as is for as long as I can. Then when there isn't a choice anymore. Continue to use it as locked down as I can keep it.
Indeed, you will keep using iOS just fine while people who want sideloading will get sideloading.
 
Your preference is your preference. I've stated a few times already, you're entitled to your opinion on this. I don't agree with the EU government's rules in this matter. So unless you work for the EU or the US government that would be making these rules. I'm "hoping" they come to their senses before "I" no longer have the same choices I do today.

LMAO!!!!
Let’s leave “sanity” out of this. That’s a malleable item anyway.

Sideloading:
I’m for it. You’re against it.
:cool:
 
Except apple purposefully makes it hard to jailbreak and releases updates to break jailbreaking methods.
Before you say "well apple doesn't need to make it easy" there is a difference between making it easy and purposefully breaking it.
Main reason for that is due to security vulnerabilities that allowed the Jailbreak in the first place. Apple isn't selling an empty device without an OS. They sell the whole widget. You don't have to buy it if you don't want to.
I'm very baffled at how anyone can continue to purchase a product that doesn't work the way they want it too, and demand that Apple allow something they don't want to. Would it not be simpler to vote with your money and not purchase Apple products until they make it the way you want it?
Indeed you just threw random corporations and entities once again without any context so it was hard to assume what you meant.
Guess you just wanted to tell me those entities got hacked? In which case thank you, but i know hacking happens.
Just making sure. Your statement seemed to indicate it's a rather rare occurrence. And while millions isn't billions, its still not just a few hundred people or a small portion of devices. It's all fun and games until its you, your device or your whole life.
Oh, so it is a hellscape of 24/7 hacking yet you too have PCs running just fine? Could it be that maybe you are overexaggerating the pc and android landscape and missing the scale of issues compared to users?
Absolutely not. There isn't a day that goes by (including holidays and weekends!) that I am not inundated with alert attempts on our systems. We spend a fortune on protection software and hardware to monitor/defend/block/prevent/recover/backup/restore (G** forbid) something bad happens. We patch every month, everything that requires it. And we limit our exposer to external internet access, blocking whole countries from communicating with us (but they still try!).

It is exactly why I state that Apple's way of limiting the ways into the device is literally the best way to prevent unauthorized access/hacks/malwares/etc. We also train our end users to know as much as they can so they don't get phished or do anything that could create an incident.

Yes, it's madness. We manage best we can. There isn't a computer on our network that does have at least 4 pieces of software (AV, Whitelisting, Network monitoring, and Patch management)
oh



(yeah i know it was sarcasm, but since my original post never even hinted there being anything selfish about owning stocks it seemed a weird thing to bring up)
I was answering to the statement of about fanboys and owning stock. I could be considered both as I own stock and am a fan of Apple. But, I don't always agree with everything they do, nor purchase everything they make.
You seem to be missing that i am literally using your own logic, you say people who don't like the lack of sideloading on iOS should buy something else, so similarly once sideloading comes to iOS you should simply buy something else.
That also doesn't allow side loading? As in a feature that does not exist on the platform.
Time to quote you again

If you think that's reasonable thing to tell me to do it means it's totally reasonable choice for you to do, simply make your own phone that has all the lockdown you so much crave.
So you have choice actually.
If I had the technical resources to do so, I would. I never claimed I did or if you or anyone else did. Its a furthering of the statement that you're free to do so. Apple is free to make a device and sell it as they intended it to be. It's your freedom to purchase it or not. Like it or not, want it or not. And that it makes no sense to complain to Apple that you want a feature they don't want to include, but you purchase it anyway. It sends the wrong message.

For example. I and I'm sure many others would love it if Apple purchased say EA games or Activision (too late) and improved gaming on the platform. Difference is I'm not demanding my government force Apple to do so. Or making it a direct reason to purchase the products they produce. If I want to game, i can get a console or other handheld or PC and have at it. I still have a means to my ends.
Indeed.
US is way more focused in corporations and their rights to protect their platforms while EU is more focused on the consumer and the devices and software they own, this is why EU also has been talking about how you should be able to sell digital copies of software you buy while US is more like "well the companies might say they're selling software, but hidden in the license agreement they mention you actually just buy a license so nah you can't resell."
Most likely why so many things are now subscription based. Making it so you can't sell it since you no longer are paying for it.
Personally i prefer focusing on the rights of consumers spending thousands of dollars on these products instead of billion dollar mega corporations, but that is the cultural difference.
There should be balance. Are senior level and c level folks making too much compared to those under them? Sure, but we live in a capitalist society. And that is the motivator to want to go from "worker" to CEO. Nothing wrong being a worker, and wanting to be the best worker there is. But there needs to be a motivator to move up. Otherwise we are all just going to be workers and all making ruffly the same amount of money and living ruffly the same type of life.
But that is a discussion for a different topic.

We all have consumer rights. And corporation rights to whatever degree of differences in culture or whatever. This topic tends to lead towards what is the greater good. Is it a greater good for Apple to allow 3rd party access to the hardware/software they made? Or is there greater risk to the consumer that purchases it? Is it a greater good for consumers? Does it increase their options/choice in the market? Or does it remove it? Are there other options that already allows this in enough of an abundance to prove that point? Take those metrics and make a more informed decision. Apple is only one of many handset/mobile phone makers. You have many other options from many other vendors. Yes, most of them run the 2nd choice of operating systems (Android). However, you as a consumer are already able to do with it what you wish. It has much if not all the same software available to it. And you can go around the default store if you wish to install via 3rd party store or side load. If anything it is MORE compatible with many other devices than Apple is.

Since none of us can make Apple exist or not. And at any time, Apple has the ability to sell all of its assets and never make another device or OS again. Take their money and run type situation. Why not allow them to exist the way they have, in their niche? And utilizes all the other options available to you? If you really want Apple to change, vote with your money. It's not like you don't have other very viable options.
Yes, because android was the first OS to allow free application installing.
And still do.
I see your point, i just think it's ridiculous.
OK, that's cool.
As i have implied you overexaggerate the dangers of android and windows hugely, and you also overexaggerate the dangers of sideloading on iOS.
From my stand point, I'm not. But, it could be like asking a cop is there a lot of crime out there?
I would ask a basic question. Do you leave your front door to your place of residence open? Especially when you are not home. Do you take a drive, park some place and leave you door open with the keys in the car? Do you leave your phone unlocked in a public place and walk away from it?

My point being, Apple has very basic security policy of closing EVERYTHING except one way in, and that way is guarded/monitored. It requires very little on the device in terms of software or hardware to make this pretty secure out of the box. While still making it painfully easy for the end user to get software they need with at least some good assurances that what they put on the device is as protected as it can be.

But, let's open some windows and backdoors.
You yourself admitted that you run PCs just fine, so you will manage with iOS that has sideloading.
I'll manage of course, I have more than enough knowledge and training to know what I am doing and why I am doing it. My elder in-laws? Not so much. The fact that I made a deliberate decision to purchase an Apple phone knowing the basic levels of security it provides, and by other folks opinions/fact it is more limited than Android. To have that taken away from me is wrong. When the folks that are asking for this "feature" to be added, didn't have it there to begin with. Almost two decades of not having it as an option. You didn't lose a freedom, you're gaining a feature as far as I am concerned. I'm losing a freedom of choice.

This device is going to be more alined with an Android phone than an Apple phone. I have to do things I did not have to do before post this rule change. You get a more open phone, and that is wonderful for you. But, it isn't the choice I made. You don't have the right to do that. Any more than I have the right to force you to pick Apple over Google.
Considering what you want you can have without altering my choices.
Indeed, you will keep using iOS just fine while people who want sideloading will get sideloading.
🙄
 
LMAO!!!!
Let’s leave “sanity” out of this. That’s a malleable item anyway.
I'll quote Einstein:
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results"
Just so we are clear.

And since we are attempting to do the same thing again and expect a different result. I think it applies.
Specifically in regards to the EU and this new rule to allow side-loading and 3rd party stores on the iPhone/iPad. As if Apple is the only maker of devices in the EU and their monopoly power is so great as to have an insurmountably negative affect on the EU consumer (i.e. No other options). Forcibly entrapping them in to a walled garden of which there is no escape. When clearly there are options other than Apple, that actually has a much larger share of the EU market (Android), and fully allows all the things they want Apple to do already, for years. Not seeing it as a security concern and not seeing the fact they are actually taking away choice for the consumer.
Sideloading:
I’m for it. You’re against it.
:cool:
I'll clarify this too. I'm for it on another platform so that you have a choice. You can pick one that is closed and one that is open. And we can see who's is best by them competing for our money.
 
Main reason for that is due to security vulnerabilities that allowed the Jailbreak in the first place. Apple isn't selling an empty device without an OS.
That doesn't change the fact that you using jailbreak is not good argument when it's not something people can reliably do.

Your statement seemed to indicate it's a rather rare occurrence. And while millions isn't billions, its still not just a few hundred people or a small portion of devices.
Million out of billion is 0.1 percent, that literally is a small portion of devices.


If I had the technical resources to do so, I would. I never claimed I did or if you or anyone else did.
You presented it as a reasonable choice to me so it is a reasonable choice to you too, if the future iphone with app installing isn't to your liking make your own.

There should be balance. Are senior level and c level folks making too much compared to those under them? Sure, but we live in a capitalist society. And that is the motivator to want to go from "worker" to CEO. Nothing wrong being a worker, and wanting to be the best worker there is. But there needs to be a motivator to move up. Otherwise we are all just going to be workers and all making ruffly the same amount of money and living ruffly the same type of life.
But that is a discussion for a different topic.
This is another reason why sometimes i dont understand what you mean, you randomly start talking about something offtopic.
Consumer rights and worker rights are two different things.

From my stand point, I'm not. But, it could be like asking a cop is there a lot of crime out there?
Or an IT guy with really poor math skills and tendency to over exaggerate things
At least i know if you ever come to my birthday party i can give you 0.1 percent of the cake since you don't consider that a small portion.

I would ask a basic question. Do you leave your front door to your place of residence open? Especially when you are not home.
No, but when i order hentai or a vape there is no moral guardian stopping those from getting delivered to me.

Apple has very basic security policy of closing EVERYTHING except one way in, and that way is guarded/monitored.
By a security team that doubles as moral police.

While still making it painfully easy for the end user to get software they need with at least some good assurances that what they put on the device is as protected as it can be.
Except apps related to vaping and tons of other apps apple either removed or didn't allow in at all.

But, let's open some windows and backdoors.
Sideloading is not a backdoor, if you really did not know that i wonder how you work at IT.
... you know scratch the birthday party thing, you'd probably confuse my front door for a backdoor or a window.

you're gaining a feature as far as I am concerned.
Indeed, and it's the one feature i always wished iOS had, pretty pumped. (BTW i tend to forget ipadOS is a thing so whenever i say iOS assume i mean both iOS and ipadOS)

Considering what you want you can have without altering my choices.
I'm starting to question if you really don't understand what i am saying or if you are purposefully ignoring it to make a point.
Let me say it again and hopefully you will understand it.
I prefer iOS to android, i like things like the UI and features... HOWEVER i did not buy it because of the lack of sideloading.
My choices were two compromises, either android which has sideloading but is otherwise worse, or iOS which lacks sideloading but is otherwise better.
What i always wanted was iOS with sideloading and i could not get it before.
 
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I'll quote Einstein:
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results"
Just so we are clear.

And since we are attempting to do the same thing again and expect a different result. I think it applies.
Specifically in regards to the EU and this new rule to allow side-loading and 3rd party stores on the iPhone/iPad. As if Apple is the only maker of devices in the EU and their monopoly power is so great as to have an insurmountably negative affect on the EU consumer (i.e. No other options). Forcibly entrapping them in to a walled garden of which there is no escape. When clearly there are options other than Apple, that actually has a much larger share of the EU market (Android), and fully allows all the things they want Apple to do already, for years. Not seeing it as a security concern and not seeing the fact they are actually taking away choice for the consumer.

I'll clarify this too. I'm for it on another platform so that you have a choice. You can pick one that is closed and one that is open. And we can see who's is best by them competing for our money.

So you are using someone's opinion to define "insanity". Okay. I wasn't though I do like Einstein's. If it is really his.

I don't care how this evolves. It won't make my decision to buy/not buy an iPhone. It is however a feature I would find highly desirable on an iPhone and increase the use case, for me, of the device. This is not and has never been an Apple vs Android case even though many, including TC try to make it so. This Government regulatory made this decision and involves more than Apple though Apple is most affected in regards to sideloading.
 
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The government has the right to do so. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
According to the data of people surveyed in the EU, it did democratically execute the will of the people. Or shall we now also adopt US wall adapters because our government should follow the recommendation of Apple?

What is artificial? They didn't let you do this from the start of the iPhone. You could write WebApps, which still works today as a way around the AppStore. The OS was built with the AppStore in mind. Not side loading in the easy manner you're suggesting it be.
If you follow interviews with Apple staff it was stated multiple times that the App Store was actually a late addition caused by more finacially-involved pressure, and the prior plan was to go with web apps.
There will always be compromises.
Sure. But not for "us". We like the security architecture of iOS without the App Store telling us which content is allowed and which isn't. If this wasn't locked to the EU, many citizens of authoritarian countries would rejoice as well.
No different than any other software I've used over the years. Features get added, some get removed and can be removed for a number of reasons. Not always good reasons, but mostly so. Difference is that "I" didn't make the software or hardware. "I" get to choose if I like it or not, want it or not, need it or not.
I however do have the right that software in my legal domain follows the rules. If Apple wants the EU margins, they cannot have it all without at least following laws, simple as that. And the law is that the people have voted for that. There have been petitions for that, not against. Just open your eyes and accept the truth.
Apple doesn't want this "feature", they are being forced to by law that not only I disagree with (So does Apple). And once it because law the world over. I as a consumer will have to figure out a way to further secure my device and do the best I can to ensure I'm as little to no impacted by it as possible.
Nothing changes to the security on your device. Anything that can happen happens because Apple allows it from the get-go with their iOS security settings. Any attempt to gauge insecurities on the public with words like private APIs can be locked down if they don't want such things to be executed.
No app will be able to access your private data unless you explicitly confirm the prompts. The most sensitive kind of data is also not even accessible even if you wanted to give access. But you already know that.
I trust Apple to make Apps that "will" do what the device was meant to do. I don't trust other stores to follow suit.
Most developers, engineers and designers who quit from Apple only did so because the company only did what the executives wanted, not the whole company. A lot of folks were frustrated because the roadmap became just a softened carrot-on-a-stick.
Other stores you don't trust? Such as Steam? We all know perfectly well why such a store is not somethign Apple would want.
Thankfully billons are not getting hacked daily. Well, maybe not billions (Equifax, T-Mobile, hospitals, schools, US states, and on and on).
Good luck hacking the device when all you got is zero-day exploits and someone to magically be navigated to your malware app in a malware app store with good SEO while maintaining signed code by Apple.
You didn't understand what I stated. But, that's OK. I'm still more of an expert than those politicians in the EU or US about technology.
They don't need to match the expertise of experts, their tech advisors have to. Do you know them? If not, it's just speculation on your behalf, and painting it as a fact is exactly the problem we face here. You simply want to sell your opinion as a fact, and you're upset it doesn't work. And so is the Apple Social Media payroll squad.
 
I own Apple Stock cause well, it makes money. Selfish I know.
I don't agree with every decision Apple makes.
I am a fan of Apple. I own(ed) plenty of their products. And used them since the Apple II.
I like the products, too, but I don't have to like the company. The company has become quite detached from its products, so the link naturally broke.
And I own stocks as well, but I regard them as what they are, stocks. Sure I like that the executives are advancing all our portfolio's worth, but I can have a separate opinion about the products.
 
So there is no difference, you did not make the EU law and now you get to choose whether you like it or not.
Agreed.
His problem is also automatically fixed, and he doesn't even know about it. Sicne all developers want to continue their access to all markets, he can just choose to buy an iPhone model from a market where there is no sideloading (such as US/Brazil in America, UK in Europe and any other countries in any other continent) and download each app of each developer who removed their app from the EU's App Stores after sideloading launched in the EU.
I just feel sorry for the folks in other countries who need it more than us, like citizens in authoritarian countries. For us it's just a feature to help us do more things on a single device, for them it's the literal safety of their lives.
 
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