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All iPads iPad Air vs iPad mini retina screen wash
- Thread starter mystikjoe
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Of course the original mini screen paled (literally) in comparison to retina iPads; it wasn't Retina.
But now it is Retina, or at least carries the name Retina. But it doesn't look like any other "Retina" screens in terms of color reproduction.
(I'm not complaining, mind you. I saw the rMini at BestBuy and compared it directly to the Air sitting next to it, and found the colors less punchy, but also less cartoonish and more realistic.)
But the fact remains, it's a different animal than what has been sold to us as Retina in every other Apple device from the iPhone to the Macbook to the full size iPad.
The fault here lies with Apple, in their typically vague presentation of specs. They don't talk about RAM. They don't talk about color. They tout specific specs only when it's to their benefit to do so.
And so, they've branded mulitple devices as Retina, but deliver different results under the same branding umbrella. Our expectations are not the failure here. The failure is Apple's candor.
You make a good point.
To be fair though, Retina displays have always referred to the pixels-per-inch. At least that's the way that Apple always marketed it.
So underneath Apple's branding umbrella, Retina means what Retina does. Four pixels for every one pixel? Check.
Now, it may be our expectation that the gamut across all Retina devices should remain the same, and that, especially, the gamut would be identical to the iPad Air; but those are still our expectations.
When compared to the original iPad mini, the new iPad mini sports twice the amount of pixels with the same gamut. Twice the amount of pixels is what Apple brands as Retina.
Why they chose not to raise the bar on the gamut to the same level as the iPad Air, or why they choose not to include gamut as part of their branding are good questions. But as far as I'm concerned, the iPad mini with Retina display delivers on the Retina part.
I checked out the rMini at the Grand Central store yesterday. While the pixel density is stunning, I immediately noticed that the colors were almost as blah and dull as the previous generation Mini (before reading any posts here). But, the deal-breaker for me is the way the Retina Mini displays red (like a burnt orange, like the first Mini).
I was hoping that when the Mini finally went retina, we'd also get the quality of the larger displays (minus the tint issue). I guess not. Since I ordered a rMini before I looked at one in person, I'll have to see what I actually get. While there were variances from one rMini to another on display, they all had dullish colors and were unable to display reds accurately. Go to CNN.com to see how the reds in the top menu header are shown.
I was hoping that when the Mini finally went retina, we'd also get the quality of the larger displays (minus the tint issue). I guess not. Since I ordered a rMini before I looked at one in person, I'll have to see what I actually get. While there were variances from one rMini to another on display, they all had dullish colors and were unable to display reds accurately. Go to CNN.com to see how the reds in the top menu header are shown.
Where have all the people who were saying 'why would you get the Air when the rMini is better and cheaper' gone?!
Maybe just busy
They are out looking for more gamut
Expectations are also set by the marketplace. Apple never claimed that Retina = 100% sRGB color space, but every other tablet maker is using that color space on their latest high res tablets. Since Apple priced the retina ipad mini far beyond the competition, it's reasonable to expect a display that at least matches the competition.
I'll say this, the retina iPad Mini doesn't seem like the best release for a company that is bleeding tabet marketshare. Apple needed to prove their dominance of the high end tablet space, and they failed. At Best Buy I compared the retina iPad mini display to other tablets 50% cheaper and the results were not flattering.
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So what's your assessment, that Apple is just incompetent? The iPad Air suggests otherwise.
Confirmation gamut is an issue:
http://tablets.reviewed.com/content/ipad-mini-with-retina-display-tablet-review/the-science
http://tablets.reviewed.com/content/ipad-mini-with-retina-display-tablet-review/the-science
The question is, how many would have bought it if it had had a retina display? How does the inferior retina display on the new retina iPad Mini affect sales? How does it affect Apple's reputation?
If the bar is set to "does it sell well?" then Apple didn't need to upgrade either iPad at all. They could have delayed the iPad Air indefinitely: just slap the Apple logo on a thicker, heavier tablet with average battery life and cash in for the next few quarters. Mission Accomplished!
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Definitely correlates with what I observed in-store compared to an Air.
In a rational world, this would quiet the "Just shut up about things I don't understand and enjoy your iPad because my eyes aren't sensitive to color issues and yours shouldn't be either." people.
But it won't.
I do wonder though, did Apple spec the display to crop and skew the gamut to save on battery? Cut down processor cycles/heat? Or is it a byproduct of the panel pixel density? Or is it just Sharp's or LG's recipe that's to blame? Will one be better than the other? Will Samsung Minis look different, assuming they pick up the yield slack?
And who makes the N7 panel? Similar pixel density and size, but no reports of weak color that I've seen.
Here's the money shot:
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No, it's a hardware limitation. Software calibration improves accuracy within the triangle of color reproduction, but it cannot produce new colors outside the color space triangle.
Ok, so based on this (there may be a better image out there)
http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_11.html
This looks like the rMini is just keeping with the same streak as the iPad 2 and 1st gen mini correct?
-Kevin
Agreed.
As far as the panel goes, my understanding is that the gamut range is a result of both backlighting and color filters applied to display panel.
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Yes, same general range of color reproduction as iPad 2 and Mini 1.
No idea but Apple should us them!
Based on the image I posted below, it's much more accurate.-Kevin
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So unless we start seeing different panels on newer rMinis that improve on this I think it's safe to say Apple chose to do this for some reason. Seems silly to me.
-Kevin
Good question. I don't know how color space gamut affects backlighting needs, but the Nexus 7 2013 increased color gamut by 30%, while shrinking the battery from 16Wh to 15Wh and increasing battery life substantially. If the wider gamut does require more backlight power, it's apparently more than offset by advances in SoC design realized with both Snapdragon and the A7.
Everything points to Apple intentionally gimping the gamut to push sales to what they consider their high end tablet. They've always been paranoid of product lines cannibalizing each other, a throwback to the days when Apple's products all sold to a fixed or shrinking market. The irony is that this paranoia may now contribute to their shrinking tablet marketshare.
JDI (Japan Display Inc) produces the Nexus 7's panel. They are a small display partnership between Sony, Hitachi, and Toshiba.
Yes. Very nice comparison image! Some recent tablets like the LG G-Pad 8.3 also feature a full color gamut display.
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My Mini is yellowish
It wouldn't be a problem at all if I didn't have an Air
Or have read these threads
I swear to God this is mass hysteria, and it's almost impossible (or impossible) to avoid if you start reading the threads.
Maybe not a bad thing as you can not differentiate between what is suggestion and what 'potentially' could be a problem you may have to deal with down the road
No way to tell the difference, as far as I can see
Weird stuff
It wouldn't be a problem at all if I didn't have an Air
Or have read these threads
I swear to God this is mass hysteria, and it's almost impossible (or impossible) to avoid if you start reading the threads.
Maybe not a bad thing as you can not differentiate between what is suggestion and what 'potentially' could be a problem you may have to deal with down the road
No way to tell the difference, as far as I can see
Weird stuff
The only problem is....Apple doesn't market or say anything about the color difference on the Air compared to the rMini. So what's the point of doing this? That and they increased the price to $399.
I'd agree with this if Apple started publishing and marketing color numbers but they don't (and I don't think they ever will).
Sounds to me more like the display manufacturers gave Apple 2 prices, a rMini screen in the old color space....or update to the new color space for more money. I think we all know what Apple would choose.
-Kevin
You seem to be astroturfing for Google. Everything points to Apple gimping the color gamut? What is this "Everything" you refer to? This is another tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. Apple afraid of cannibalizing their own sales? If that were the case they wouldn't have introduced 1/2 the products that they've put out there over the past few years. Steve J himself famously said that if you're afraid of cannibalizing your own sales a competitor will do that for you.
I don't see how this makes sense. The only reason a company would upsell is for a higher profit margin. But bigger ticket items often have lower margins. Knowing Apple, I'm willing to bet the difference in profit between an Air and a retina mini is narrow. Certainly not enough that they'd start playing upselling games.
You also assume that non techies, by far Apple's largest customer demographic, know, or can see the difference between a narrow gamut display and a wider one. I can guarantee you not a single Apple salesperson on the floor of any Apple store is telling customers that the Air has better color rendering than the Mini. It is simply not a selling point Apple would pursue.
Just to be clear, that chart refers to the Mini 1 and previous iPad Retina. That might be what you're referring to, but just in case.
Just to be clear, that chart refers to the Mini 1 and previous iPad Retina. That might be what you're referring to, but just in case.
Yes I realize that. If you look at my chart compared to the new chart for the rMini you can clearly see Apple chose, for whatever reason, to keep the rMini basically in the same color space as the 1st gen and iPad 2....meaning, they moved to retina but didn't improve the color quality of the display.
-Kevin