iPad as a laptop replacement

[Ludatyk]

For me is simple, for a device like the iPad, the least it should be able to do is standalone. What happen to people who only have iPad and no computer? Android tablets don’t have this issue as they have their own recovery mode. It is highly ironic how Apple marketed iOS devices as “PC free”, yet in 2023 they still require an actual PC to troubleshoot with.

But you can use the iPad standalone. Cases where you need a PC/Mac to troubleshoot an iPad are might be rare... and I can't recall the last time I needed a PC/Mac to troubleshoot an iPad. And I have family and friends who have iPads that I'm the go-to tech advisor for their issues.

Now, I do admit that Apple need to address potential situations like your friend where a PC should not be required to troubleshoot.

 

[ian87w]

I tried this and it worked for me -

https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/zzoqdj

UPDATE: Lo and behold, this does work! It takes a while, but now my iPhone system data drops to 12GB from the ridiculous 43GB. Cool beans , and thanks a lot for the info 😊👍


Old comment: Very interesting theory. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me. After going through all that, my system data on my iphone remains at a ridiculous 43GB.

But will tell this to my friend to see if it can help her.

Still, such ridiculous thing for Apple. If they cannot even make the OS to manage cache and temporary files properly, then at least give the user an easy way to clear those data.

 

[Slartibart]

I have a question? I used this RE Agent, https://lucidrealty.com/blog/ , he had some crazy crunched data (more than I felt necessary but awesome to see). I use apples Numbers for personal and Excel and SQL for work, so I know the limitation of big data on Numbers and Excel for the iPad. How are you able to deal with large data sets and crunching/parsing all of that on an iPad?

What do you mean by »large data sets«? Anyway: I just analysed a data set for a job application: 11 variables, about 10000 values per variable, over 2 periods. The thing was provided in an Excel file containing three work sheets. It was defined that, (for various reasons) using Excel was not an option.

Disclaimer: the above is nothing I call „large data set“. 🤓

Task was to identify which variables and how these effect 2 specific ones from the set.
Due to various reasons, I had only an 2020 11“ iPP, iPadOS 16.4 with me (I managed to get a bluetooth keyboard and a mouse so 😃)

Without going to much into detail - I could elaborate on that, and I actually might put the whole story on my github - the requirements where basically to do descriptive and inferential statistics, t-tests, ANOVA, some external explorative statistical methods like heatmaps of correlation matrices, and machine learning. Additionally you had to write or implement around 60 functions/calculations and run them over this data and summarise these in a table (this table and relevant results and graphs from the explorative and statistical analysis had to be presented, all code documented). you had exactly 3 days.

I (almost) managed to do this in the given time USING the iPad. 🤣🤪

I used Carnets, Juno, Textastic, Koder, R installed locally in iSH (apk add R), R Studio via posit.cloud, Overleaf for the technical documentation (about 20 A4 pages of commented code and 10 pages of graphs), Apple’s Keynote to put together a (maximal) 10 slides presentation (that had to be presented via Microsoft Teams 🤕)

As I wrote, I managed - I was able to "prototype" R and python code and run it to some extend locally...
but I had to generate local test data first, because a variety of modules, which makes your life easy when you want to analyse things, are simply not available in Python or Ron iPadOS… and you can’t simply compile them, due to the boundaries set by Apple.

At the end I solved most of the analytical part as well as the documentation via the mentioned online platforms.

To present in MS Teams on iPadOS, it turned out to better export the Keynote presentation to images or a PDF, “presenting“ in Teams means switching to the other app (Photos, Files/FileBrowser) but for example you do not longer see your video in Teams when you present (seriously? 🙄).

partly this feels like moving through honey with high viscosity or even non-newtonian fluids: if you push it, you hit something solid. (E.g. you can‘t simply run a calculation locally or in Safari in the background and switch to another split view of Keynote and Textastic/Koder/Files to import or copy data into it and work on your presentation. The calculation in the background might simply stop for a variety of reasons.) Be prepared to experience a work flow/procedure which oscillates between moments of pure delight and happiness followed by staggering disbelief resulting in hectic activity to search for, or create some form of workaround… if possible.



To all who get there stuff nicely done on iPadOS: Excellent!



To all who come up with something paraphrasing the Mandalorian creed “but you have to follow the iPadOS way!”:

you will get your Mandalorian helmet taking of your head (probably).

Accept the consequences. Go and take a bath in the living waters of mandalcOreS. 😁




IMHO there is importance in "how you do it" and not only in "can you do it".

Obviously YMMV.






TL;DR:

• you can analyse large data sets USING an iPad Pro in spring 2023.
• But only as long as you have access to online services.
• And only if you have a fast internet connection to transfer the data there in the first step.
• You can work happily in a browser window.
• 
  
• Doing this on iPadOS is, if you are competent and lucky, at best a workaround in times of dire need.

• Be prepared to need possibly significantly more time then on macOS (obviously I am not referring to local calculation times on AS, but the whole shebang incl. uploads, reopening apps or re-establishing connections, etc.)

EDIT: I forgot to mention, obviously I tried to use Stage Manager to adress the multi tasking-related problems. The main problem here was, that just running it occupies a lot of RAM. Which then impacts on your ability to process the data locally, Safari disconnecting in the background, etc.. Not to mention the little problems or annoyances plaguing it. To be fair: RAM won’t probably be a problem on a 16 Gb RAM iPP - but in the meantime I have - just for fun - run the whole stuff locally on an older Macbook with less RAM than the iPP I used. Yes, the actual calculations are often slower than on the iPP. Significantly. But on MacOS the whole procedure not only feels faster, overall it is faster done.

 

[teh_hunterer]

But you can use the iPad standalone. Cases where you need a PC/Mac to troubleshoot an iPad are might be rare... and I can't recall the last time I needed a PC/Mac to troubleshoot an iPad. And I have family and friends who have iPads that I'm the go-to tech advisor for their issues.

Yep, my grandparents have been on iPads only since 2012, and only once in 11 years did I need to use one of my computers to fix something that went wrong.

 

[Ludatyk]

The main problem here was, that just running it occupies a lot of RAM. Which then impacts on your ability to process the data locally, Safari disconnecting in the background, etc.. Not to mention the little problems or annoyances plaguing it. To be fair: RAM won’t probably be a problem on a 16 Gb RAM iPP - but in the meantime I have - just for fun - run the whole stuff locally on an older Macbook with less RAM than the iPP I used. Yes, the actual calculations are often slower than on the iPP. Significantly. But on MacOS the whole procedure not only feels faster, overall it is faster done.

Fantastic work! But you mention RAM could potentially be the issue and you having a older MacBook... how much RAM is on this older MacBook? If I'm not mistaken... the iPad you are using has 6GB?

 

[secretk]

Fantastic work! But you mention RAM could potentially be the issue and you having a older MacBook... how much RAM is on this older MacBook? If I'm not mistaken... the iPad you are using has 6GB?

It might not be just the RAM but how iPadOS in general handles RAM and how it tends to suspend apps compared to say MacOS. Most probably then the issue is exactly that iPadOS would suspend apps and thus disconnect etc while MacOS would not do it. Technically maybe the iPad might have more RAM and could do it faster but only if leave the iPad doing only that nothing else and you having to wait which I do not enjoy as experience.

For example I just had to export 15 minutes video on my iPP from Lumafusion. Now it takes 15 minutes to export which is impressive let's be honest. I can't do anything else though unless I have external monitor to put on something else. Otherwise the iPad is unusable for 15 minutes. I do expect similar export times on MacBook with M1/M2 but let's just say it is Intel Mac. Export would take more time but you can freely use other apps while waiting for the export.

That being said indeed for comparison it would be interesting to know how much RAM the MacBook has.

 

[Ludatyk]

It might not be just the RAM but how iPadOS in general handles RAM and how it tends to suspend apps compared to say MacOS. Most probably then the issue is exactly that iPadOS would suspend apps and thus disconnect etc while MacOS would not do it. Technically maybe the iPad might have more RAM and could do it faster but only if leave the iPad doing only that nothing else and you having to wait which I do not enjoy as experience.

That's a good theory too. But I suspect with the introduction of M1 iPads that has implemented swap memory (I know the 64GB Air is excluded) could help with not suspending apps under iPadOS.

For example I just had to export 15 minutes video on my iPP from Lumafusion. Now it takes 15 minutes to export which is impressive let's be honest. I can't do anything else though unless I have external monitor to put on something else. Otherwise the iPad is unusable for 15 minutes. I do expect similar export times on MacBook with M1/M2 but let's just say it is Intel Mac. Export would take more time but you can freely use other apps while waiting for the export.

Wouldn't Stage Manager help in situations like these? Now full screen apps can be placed in the background while attempting to do some other task.

 

[secretk]

That's a good theory too. But I suspect with the introduction of M1 iPads that has implemented swap memory (I know the 64GB Air is excluded) could help with not suspending apps under iPadOS.

We did hear about swap memory I think but I am not sure it works the way I want it work (aka how it works on MacOS/Windows). It still does not allow multitasking the way I do it on those machines. I think it allows one app to use more RAM than needed through swap, but does not allow multiple apps to run in the background like desktop OS.

Wouldn't Stage Manager help in situations like these? Now full screen apps can be placed in the background while attempting to do some other task.

I am not super fan of Stage Manager as arranging the apps is not very intuitive and automatic and I have to do it with hands/trackpad. It is rather slow. Also in most cases I do want to use the apps in Fullscreen, I want to be able to switch between them fast.

I can also use second monitor but as usual some issues there as well . Thing is I have ultra wide monitor and iPadOs does not scale well with those monitors so I have huge black bars on left and right .

Not the end of the world. I still use my iPad, just saying while it is not my main device or only one. And showed an example where using a MacBook with inferior CPU might still be better for some people.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Wouldn't Stage Manager help in situations like these? Now full screen apps can be placed in the background while attempting to do some other task.

It helps, but it's still very precarious. All it takes is clicking the wrong thing or swiping the wrong way and that render is instantly dead.

Using Stage Manager on external displays I find it quite easy to accidentally upend the way I've got things set up.

We did hear about swap memory I think but I am not sure it works the way I want it work (aka how it works on MacOS/Windows). It still does not allow multitasking the way I do it on those machines. I think it allows one app to use more RAM than needed through swap, but does not allow multiple apps to run in the background like desktop OS.

That's my understanding. It keeps up to 8 apps going when they're on the screen (4 on each screen), but won't help if you accidentally switch to a different group of apps, even for a second.

 

[jamezr]

I just got a IPP 12 today and love it! Such a great device. I am going to try to use it a secondary laptop type device to go a long with my 16 MBP.

But a couple of comments on my experince so far setting up and using the IPP

Set up was easy using my iPhone 14 PM...nice an easy. But really wish it would also transfer the settings and folders and homescreen arrangement. Having to duplicate everything again is dauting.

Pairing my Magic mouse was easy. But not a fan of the mouse pointer.
Is there a way to change the pointer to an arrow and make the scrolling faster?
Any better BT mice out there for iPads?

Think of getting a Apple magic keyboard and folio case.
Any suggestions?

 

[Ludatyk]

I just got a IPP 12 today and love it! Such a great device. I am going to try to use it a secondary laptop type device to go a long with my 16 MBP.

Congrats on the new purchase! You can also use it as a secondary monitor as well... I received a TenOne Design mount to use with Sidecar and Universal Control, I like using that with my MBP.

Pairing my Magic mouse was easy. But not a fan of the mouse pointer.
Is there a way to change the pointer to an arrow and make the scrolling faster?
Any better BT mice out there for iPads?

You can change the color... but no way of changing the pointer. And scrolling speed should be under Accessibilty -> Pointer Control. And I think the Magic Mouse is the best mouse for the iPad due to the integration with Apple.. I have a MX Master 3 and scrolling doesn't appear as smooth.

Think of getting a Apple magic keyboard and folio case.
Any suggestions?

My vote is on the Magic Keyboard because I believe its the best laptop experience you can get with an iPad, but you can't go wrong with the Smart Keyboard or the Logitech Combo Touch Keyboard.

 

[culo77]

I am the out of the office face of the business, and my wife takes care of the records and office work. I deal with the per transaction, and my wife takes care of the finances and spread sheets. She is a spread sheet goddess. She makes them and I use them. I deal mostly with premade contracts and documents, and direct communications with the client, which is all easily done on the iPad. The majority of our records are kept online, with physical backups to external drives.

Thank you for your response. I am always looking for tips or ideas of things I miss or don't know that would help me more. Spreadsheets on the iPad are my pain point at the moment.

 

[culo77]

What do you mean by »large data sets«? Anyway: I just analysed a data set for a job application: 11 variables, about 10000 values per variable, over 2 periods. The thing was provided in an Excel file containing three work sheets. It was defined that, (for various reasons) using Excel was not an option.
Disclaimer: the above is nothing I call „large data set“. 🤓

To all who get there stuff nicely done on iPadOS: Excellent!
To all who come up with something paraphrasing the Mandalorian creed “but you have to follow the iPadOS way!”:
IMHO there is importance in "how you do it" and not only in "can you do it".
Obviously YMMV.

Let start by saying I am not on either side of the fence of the iPad as a replacement debate. And will always say that I am grateful we have so many different options or tools to fit each our certain needs.

That said, Excel for iPad (and numbers) does have issues for what I need. I work with about 80,000 to 90,000 rows and double letter columns which is an issue just there for me. Marcos (which I hate but am required by the powers that be) is non existent on the iPad and I think MacOS excel too. A simple sumif or ifferror with 2 embedded Xlookup formulas is not working for me or I am missing something. Power Pivot or PowerBI is not there or I can't find it, so no ODB connections. Also because of the large sheets with formulas, I find I can't get iPad Excel or Numbers to work.

Again I am not saying it can't do it, I was saying I haven't found a way I can to do it on the iPad. I am open to ideas and suggestions. Even if I don't use them many other random MacRumors lurkers may find it useful.

I did most of my coronid lockdown work from home by using my iPad remote desktoping into my work PC which was amazing. That was/is my work around and it turned out good so I didn't dive more into finding out ways to make iPad numbers or Excel work for my need. No MS365 from my cheap penny-pincher company, they still complain about paying for remote access for us.

 

[Abazigal]

For example I just had to export 15 minutes video on my iPP from Lumafusion. Now it takes 15 minutes to export which is impressive let's be honest. I can't do anything else though unless I have external monitor to put on something else. Otherwise the iPad is unusable for 15 minutes. I do expect similar export times on MacBook with M1/M2 but let's just say it is Intel Mac. Export would take more time but you can freely use other apps while waiting for the export.

Letting a task run in the foreground is also one issue I have had to tip-toe around (such as allowing documents to index the files in dropbox while syncing), though thankfully it's not been common. What I would do is run that app in split-screen mode with another app that I would like to use. It's not a perfect situation (because you don't get the entire screen), but it's better than not having access to your iPad entirely.

 

[jamezr]

Congrats on the new purchase! You can also use it as a secondary monitor as well... I received a TenOne Design mount to use with Sidecar and Universal Control, I like using that with my MBP.


You can change the color... but no way of changing the pointer. And scrolling speed should be under Accessibilty -> Pointer Control. And I think the Magic Mouse is the best mouse for the iPad due to the integration with Apple.. I have a MX Master 3 and scrolling doesn't appear as smooth.


My vote is on the Magic Keyboard because I believe its the best laptop experience you can get with an iPad, but you can't go wrong with the Smart Keyboard or the Logitech Combo Touch Keyboard.

Thank you! I ordered the Logitech Combo Touch Keyboard to pick up today at BestBuy. Thanks for the suggestion

 

[sdm1985]

iPad Pro 2022 11” with Magic Keyboard, sold My M1 Macbook Air and 100% made the right decision…there is just something that feels just right about this solution (of course based on me personal requirements).

I think it’s having the keyboard and touch options make the experience more flexible. The screen feels better and my only gripe is the weight of the M Keyboard.

From user experience, is there any settings/changes to make to experience better?

Very happy so far

 

[jamezr]

So far loving the iPad Pro 12.9 and the Logitech Combo Touch Keyboard. I like that I can detach the keyboard and quickly use the IPP as a tablet. But it does add some extra bulk and weight. But the keyboard is very nice to use and ergonomically friendly. Thanks guys for the tips!

 

[sparksd]

So far loving the iPad Pro 12.9 and the Logitech Combo Touch Keyboard. I like that I can detach the keyboard and quickly use the IPP as a tablet. But it does add some extra bulk and weight. But the keyboard is very nice to use and ergonomically friendly. Thanks guys for the tips!

It's a great keyboard. Fortunately, they improved the design by making the speaker covering differently - the previous version had a full cutout there, while the new version has a covering with holes in it. The lip in that area in the old version would get stretched out, leaving what becomes a sizable gap between the cover edge and the iPad.

 

[Ludatyk]

I think it’s having the keyboard and touch options make the experience more flexible. The screen feels better and my only gripe is the weight of the M Keyboard.

From user experience, is there any settings/changes to make to experience better?

Umm.. if anything, it’s about your preferences. Only suggestion I recommend is getting accumulate to using keyboard shortcuts and trackpad gestures.. it helps navigating around iPadOS much easier.

 

[DeepSix]

ipad is more portable than just about every laptop out there (including ultrabooks) but I find he best advantage is that the ipad doesn't have to be powered off or even put into sleep mode. Always on, instant on. Can't do that with any laptop or ultrabook. Still slows you down when you always have to shut down or power up a laptop. I wouldn't trust using any laptop on the go while it's still on, even in sleep mode. I would always power it off to be safe and it takes much longer to boot up than any ipad. And because of no vents on an ipad, you can easily use it on a bed or carpet whereas it's not a great idea for any laptop. You can easily throw an ipad into a sleeve whereas a laptop requires backpack or a laptop bag. Sleeves are far more portable than a full out bag. And no fan noise on the ipad.

 

[Digitalguy]

ipad is more portable than just about every laptop out there (including ultrabooks) but I find he best advantage is that the ipad doesn't have to be powered off or even put into sleep mode. Always on, instant on. Can't do that with any laptop or ultrabook. Still slows you down when you always have to shut down or power up a laptop. I wouldn't trust using any laptop on the go while it's still on, even in sleep mode. I would always power it off to be safe and it takes much longer to boot up than any ipad. And because of no vents on an ipad, you can easily use it on a bed or carpet whereas it's not a great idea for any laptop. You can easily throw an ipad into a sleeve whereas a laptop requires backpack or a laptop bag. Sleeves are far more portable than a full out bag. And no fan noise on the ipad.

More portable... without a keyboard, which is not a totally fair comparison....
Also a M1/M2 Macbook is pretty much instantly on and sleeps reliably, contrary to x86 laptops. And it's fanless.

 

[ish4y]

I couldn’t do it, but I tried. Through middle school I had the 7th and 8th Gen models with Logitech keyboard cases, which serviced me just fine for simple presentations and essays.

I bought a 9th Gen for university and found it was a pain in the ass to work on academic papers. Skimming through ten sources on such a cramped screen and stripped-back software not having built-in features to cite sources, made me switch back to my MBA. It’s possible, but cumbersome enough to just return to the desktop experience.

I use my iPad now mostly for what it was originally designed to do: being a media powerhouse. It’s perfect for entertainment, web browsing, reading and content creation. I bought a Smart Keyboard to do some writing (as a hobby) for which I don’t need to cite in APA.

I wonder how this one student I saw with the new iPad Pro does it. I love the portability and battery life of the iPad, but I need macOS. Maybe the 12-inch MacBook comes close to this form factor. I hope Apple revives it.

 

[sparksd]

More portable... without a keyboard, which is not a totally fair comparison....
Also a M1/M2 Macbook is pretty much instantly on and sleeps reliably, contrary to x86 laptops. And it's fanless.

My 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7 sleeps/awakes quickly & reliably. Never been an issue with it.

 

[Digitalguy]

My 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7 sleeps/awakes quickly & reliably. Never been an issue with it.

My surface go 2 awakes quickly from sleep (although iPad is a bit quicker) but after a certain number of hours of sleep (almost a day) it automatically goes into hybernation and then it takes longer to awake. However this avoid battery drain. The battery drain on the iPad is actually pretty much similar to that of the surface while in sleep mode, so if I leave it for a couple of days it can drain quite a lot. While with hybernation drain is extremely low. Unfortuantely modern iPadOS is not great in terms of standby contrary to IOS 10 or lower, so iPad not draining while sleeping is no longer true.

 

[DeepSix]

More portable... without a keyboard, which is not a totally fair comparison....
Also a M1/M2 Macbook is pretty much instantly on and sleeps reliably, contrary to x86 laptops. And it's fanless.

Even with a keyboard, the iPad is still more portable than laptops. I've had many Surface Pros and the iPad pro with a combo touch keyboard is more portable.