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bluecoast

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2017
2,256
2,673
I am just going to say this.

"For 90% of people - they can certainly make the iPad their primary computer or laptop. "

Most professional reviewers and a lot of us on here are part of the 10% who work professionally on desktop/laptops. So I think for "most people" they really can replace a laptop with an iPad but for a specific group of professionals they can not.

For web browsing, e-mail, messaging, social media, blogging, writers, gaming and media consumption which is what 90% of everyday people do, the iPad can be a laptop replacement and a much better one at that.

Even for professionals using the Microsoft Office suite and some Adobe CC Applications (Photographers, Graphic Designers and Digital Illustrators) can primarily use the iPad Pro.

It is select professionals - the developers, recording studios, high end video editors, web designers and 3D designers who are limited by the software and application availability which I think will change in the next iOS. All we need is Xcode / Final Cut / AutoDesk / Dreamweaver / Pro Tools can certainly run on the new iPad Pro hardware - we just need the iOS and App support.

Main point here is - if 90% of the population can use the iPad Pro as their everyday computer why can't we say the iPad Pro is a laptop replacement?

Great post

However...

I think you’re right about everyday consumer & creative pro uses of the iPad (although we’ll have to see how graphics professionals work with photoshop on touch and pen compared to on a Mac/pc and mouse with keyboard shortcuts).

One big big use case that I’d argue that the iPad is still not very good at, is (mainstream) productivity. By that I mean, ‘general office work’ tasks.

Even more specifically, I mean things like trying to write a formatted document, working with a medium sized spreadsheet, using web forms or project management software (which I do).

The iPad is still absolutely terrible for these tasks compared to a pc with a mouse & keyboard (even a trackpad isn’t as good as a mouse when you’re doing productivity tasks).

I really agree with you that tech journalists are (mostly) the sorts of people who are not great at reviewing a product like the iPad for pro tasks.

Somewhat egotistically, most of them assume that ‘work’ means writing a big chunk of text with some mark up that will be put into Wordpress or another CMS & then editing photos - and in particular, video. That is not a normal use case for most people at work, I’d argue (general productivity apps are).

Given that the use cases I outline above, aren’t that exotic, it surely must be the case that by next year when (presumably) Apple will add a little more power to iOS, trackpad/mouse support will be forthcoming to make this a true pc replacement.

Until then, I know I’m not buying an iPad - my needs are pretty mainstream I’d say & the product just doesn’t work for me.
 

akash.nu

macrumors G4
May 26, 2016
10,870
16,998
Glad i’m Not your client.

If I had a tender for a video marketing campaign and I had two people in front of me, one whom tells me the campaign will be made on an iPad, the other one tells me it’s a Mac (heck even Windows!), I know exactly whom i’d be choosing.

Why does the tools matter to you as a client ? Won’t you focus on the end result?
 

bluecoast

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2017
2,256
2,673
Apart from spreadsheets I can’t see anything that’s easier on a Mac than on an iPad..

Even that’s improving .

...Try writing a report, academic dissertation or business contract on the iPad and see how you get on!

Or try using it in an office where you have to switch from task to task quickly. It’s painful.

The iPad absolutely is the future of the pc. The hardware is there. I can only assume that they’ve struggled to find the software engineering resources to work on the iPad (presumably the ‘A’ team were all on the iPhone X in 2016-17 with 2018 taken up with ‘hardening’ & optimisation).

As I’ve said on other threads, maybe Apple has left the ipad’s ‘pc’ features (and the Mac’s ‘iOS’ features) for the marzipan project where (presumably) it is aiming to create a powerful class of app that is equally at home on the iPad and the Mac.

No doubt there’s a lot of UX work that’s part of this too (ie how to blend trackpad suppport onto a device with the primary interface of a touchscreen without ruining it).

Here’s hoping.
 
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The Samurai

macrumors 68020
Dec 29, 2007
2,055
750
Glasgow
Why does the tools matter to you as a client ? Won’t you focus on the end result?

As a client, and someone who has been a video editor, the right tools are crucial. Fcpx offers wayyy more than Luma video editor on the iPad. There’s a saying, use the right tool for the job. Bill away on the iPad by all means but if I’m paying you, you better make sure you do a darn good job of my money. Don’t let the tools hold you back, in this case the iPad and iOS.
 
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akash.nu

macrumors G4
May 26, 2016
10,870
16,998
As a client, and someone who has been a video editor, the right tools are crucial. Fcpx offers wayyy more than Luma video editor on the iPad. There’s a saying, use the right tool for the job. Bill away on the iPad by all means but if I’m paying you, you better make sure you do a darn good job of my money. Don’t let the tools hold you back, in this case the iPad and iOS.

Yes, so all you need to worry about as a client that you are satisfied with what was produced in the end. You’ve been a video editor yourself and understandably you want the best but when it comes to negotiating a deal I’ve never heard / seen the tools are part of that discussion. It’s all about the end result.
 

The Samurai

macrumors 68020
Dec 29, 2007
2,055
750
Glasgow
Yes, so all you need to worry about as a client that you are satisfied with what was produced in the end. You’ve been a video editor yourself and understandably you want the best but when it comes to negotiating a deal I’ve never heard / seen the tools are part of that discussion. It’s all about the end result.

Again, right tool for the job is key in any job. I don’t know about you but when I am handing out tenders I want to hear the a-z of the job. The end result as you point is key, however, equally are the steps / processes that will help you achieve your result. If these are not carried out properly, the end result will not be satisfactory.

I recently had a garage conversion undertaken, I had various builders come out. The end result was to get the room converted into a living space. Price and timeframe were key as well as the finer details such as how they intend on getting local council authorisations, how long this would take, the builders experience, who the 3rd party contractors were, what kind of bricks were being used, how they intended to wire the place electrically, what materials they were going to use for the raising of the floor (as I didn’t want steps), quality of insulation, how they were going to dispose of waste (I didn’t want plasterboard and materials left overnight in the driveway or be a nuisance to my neighbours), what time the builders would start each day and finish and separately I wanted to speak to the electrician personally so that I could get the room kitted to my spec with plug points in places i wanted them as well as sockets / connections for the television.

In the end I went with a builder who had the experience behind him, who was able to arrange house visits for me for clients houses he had converted and who gave me straight answers to my questions.

#writtenonaniPad
 
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840quadra

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 1, 2005
9,469
6,374
Twin Cities Minnesota
Again, right tool for the job is key in any job. I don’t know about you but when I am handing out tenders I want to hear the a-z of the job. The end result as you point is key, however, equally are the steps / processes that will help you achieve your result. If these are not carried out properly, the end result will not be satisfactory.

I recently had a garage conversion undertaken, I had various builders come out. The end result was to get the room converted into a living space. Price and timeframe were key as well as the finer details such as how they intend on getting local council authorisations, how long this would take, the builders experience, who the 3rd party contractors were, what kind of bricks were being used, how they intended to wire the place electrically, what materials they were going to use for the raising of the floor (as I didn’t want steps), quality of insulation, how they were going to dispose of waste (I didn’t want plasterboard and materials left overnight in the driveway or be a nuisance to my neighbours), what time the builders would start each day and finish and separately I wanted to speak to the electrician personally so that I could get the room kitted to my spec with plug points in places i wanted them as well as sockets / connections for the television.

In the end I went with a builder who had the experience behind him, who was able to arrange house visits for me for clients houses he had converted and who gave me straight answers to my questions.

#writtenonaniPad
Thankfully my clients don’t have the same nonsensical, and irrelevant standards. As you said, the right tool for the job, and I am pretty good at my selections, including my avoidance of overkill. I am editing social media, website, and quite a few presentation videos. I am not filming the next episode of Star Wars, or building a condo.

Sure I can drag my MacBook Pro, or hell even my Mac Pro and monitors with to a location to do edits in FCPx. In some cases (bigger jobs) I actually do. That said, for many, I don’t require much editing as I focus on quality captures, lighting, and proper audio. With the fundamentals down, there really isn’t much extra work needed in post.

Editing in FCPx is great, I simply don’t need to anymore, for the same reasons I do not wait until the end of the day to dial into compuserve over my 28.8 modem to check my email . Times have, and continue to change.

#ItsAlmost2019Not1999
 
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The Samurai

macrumors 68020
Dec 29, 2007
2,055
750
Glasgow
Thankfully my clients don’t have the same nonsensical, and irrelevant standards. As you said, the right tool for the job, and I am pretty good at my selections, including my avoidance of overkill. I am editing social media, website, and quite a few presentation videos. I am not filming the next episode of Star Wars, or building a condo.

Sure I can drag my MacBook Pro, or hell even my Mac Pro and monitors with to a location to do edits in FCPx. In some cases (bigger jobs) I actually do. That said, for many, I don’t require much editing as I focus on quality captures, lighting, and proper audio. With the fundamentals down, there really isn’t much extra work needed in post.

Editing in FCPx is great, I simply don’t need to anymore, for the same reasons I do not wait until the end of the day to dial into compuserve over my 28.8 modem to check my email . Times have, and continue to change.

#ItsAlmost2019Not1999

Editing a video for personal reasons (family travel or birthday) by all means use an iPad. Where money and professionalism are involved, don’t kid yourself. If you think, at present in iOS 12, you can go all iPad Pro with video, you are simply trying to prove a point. Then again, maybe you haven’t even mastered final cut to being with which raises more questions.

Good luck.
 

840quadra

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 1, 2005
9,469
6,374
Twin Cities Minnesota
Editing a video for personal reasons (family travel or birthday) by all means use an iPad. Where money and professionalism are involved, don’t kid yourself. If you think, at present in iOS 12, you can go all iPad Pro with video, you are simply trying to prove a point. Then again, maybe you haven’t even mastered final cut to being with which raises more questions.

Good luck.
Your opinion is noted. Thankfully I don't need your consent or approval for how I conduct business.

Don't need luck, I already have a happy and growing customer base, but thanks!
 

mbpr53

macrumors newbie
Oct 11, 2012
8
5
2018 iPad Pro 12.9
Am trying to eliminate the need for the laptop. On-screen keypad doesn’t have cursor keys, so excel was an issue. With the Apple Pencil to quickly select cells, and cursor keys on the keyboard cover, I’m good now for 99% of what I need. Battery life is better on the iPad to boot.
FaceID is a great feature, not just to unlock, but for apps that formerly supported touchID. If they could just move the needle and support web logins with Face ID.
Keeping the laptop as a crutch for now, but the need to upgrade it is fading quickly, and eventually I hope to pass it on.
I do feel the apple pencil is a poor substitute for a trackpad. A pointing device would be better for some apps. Not being able to add a bluetooth accessory for that is a poor choice from Apple.
 

ascender

macrumors 603
Dec 8, 2005
5,021
2,897
What are people using for an iPad stand these days? I'm looking for something to use at my desk where it would be good to elevate the iPad a bit.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,993
34,282
Seattle WA
What are people using for an iPad stand these days? I'm looking for something to use at my desk where it would be good to elevate the iPad a bit.

I have this for my 10.5 iPP -

71e0OOPxW-L._SL1500_.jpg


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XVL8WP1/

Rock solid, adjustable to different heights, works great.
 
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Perene

macrumors 6502a
Jun 29, 2015
835
321
Netherealm
Whenever I see these discussions about how limited the iPAD is I wonder if Apple cripples the HW/SW on purpose of if they are utterly incompetent. Or both.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-add-files-to-old-ipod.2151347/#post-26735412

In this link I posted about a 12-year old iPOD, in which I had lots of songs stored. I had to do 2 things:

- Backup all the data
- Add new files

However once I plugged into my PC and opened iTunes apparently the only way to add new files was to sync and by doing the latter all contents would be erased, since I have not synchronized before (to my PC). Also there was no way to backup anything. At least iTunes didn't show that option to me.

Then as I described I downloaded a paid software for my Windows/PC... which was then able to backup all the contents of this iPOD. Later I told iTunes to reset to factory settings, and not only added the previous files, I also added new ones.

That and past experiences such as Apple BANNING ALL TORRENT APPS from the Apple Store:
https://torrentfreak.com/apple-approves-self-censoring-bittorrent-app-140810/

Or things like:

- No dark mode for most apps. Example: Safari for iOS doesn't have it, Firefox has (while still limited).

- No way to switch permanently to desktop mode in Safari for iOS. This can be done, however, with another app:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/desktop-browser/id940076212?mt=8

Was a wake-up call for me. Why would they deliberately do all this?

Then there's the fact the new iPADs (using USB-C) don't work with external storage. I wonder if this is true - wouldn't every single hard drive model require a specific app to force them to be recognized?

About that latter statement: aren't all these limitations happening simply because no one has modified iOS enough and developed apps suited for all these taks?

It's really frustrating that we can't do simple things such as a quick backup and adding new files to these devices simply because we have to rely on crap created by Apple like the iTunes.

And these limitations (and lots more) are happening on very expensive products, which begs the question if we shouldn't buy the US$ 400 versions of the iPADs instead, arguing this is what these tablets are really worth.

Take the available storage, for example. We now have cheaper hard drives that offer terabytes for less than US$ 500 (like the 10 TB G-Drive). Or a 1 TB SSD for less than US$ 150.

Why would anyone in his right mind pay more than US$ 1000 for 256 or 512 GB? Which is the minimum these days in my opinion, with 4K contents.
 
Last edited:

sunapple

macrumors 68030
Jul 16, 2013
2,841
5,482
The Netherlands
Whenever I see these discussions about how limited the iPAD is I wonder if Apple cripples the HW/SW on purpose of if they are utterly incompetent. Or both.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-add-files-to-old-ipod.2151347/#post-26735412

In this link I posted about a 12-year old iPOD, in which I had lots of songs stored. I had to do 2 things:

- Backup all the data
- Add new files

However once I plugged into my PC and opened iTunes apparently the only way to add new files was to sync and by doing the latter all contents would be erased, since I have not synchronized before (to my PC). Also there was no way to backup anything. At least iTunes didn't show that option to me.

Then as I described I downloaded a paid software for my Windows/PC... which was then able to backup all the contents of this iPOD. Later I told iTunes to reset to factory settings, and not only added the previous files, I also added new ones.

That and past experiences such as Apple BANNING ALL TORRENT APPS from the Apple Store:
https://torrentfreak.com/apple-approves-self-censoring-bittorrent-app-140810/

Or things like:

- No dark mode for most apps. Example: Safari for iOS doesn't have it, while Firefox has (while still limited).

- No way to switch permanently to desktop mode in Safari for iOS. This can be done, however, with another app:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/desktop-browser/id940076212?mt=8

Was a wake-up call for me. Why would they deliberately do all this?

Then there's the fact the new iPADs (using USB-C) don't work with external storage. I wonder if this is true - wouldn't every single hard drive model require a specific app to force them to be recognized?

About that latter statement: aren't all these limitations happening simply because no one has modified iOS enough and developed apps suited for all these taks?

It's really frustrating that we can't do simple things such as a quick backup and adding new files to these devices simply because we have to rely on crap created by Apple like the iTunes.

And these limitations (and lots more) are happening on very expensive products, which begs the question if we shouldn't buy the US$ 400 versions of the iPADs instead, arguing this is what these tablets are really worth.

Take the available storage, for example. We now have cheaper hard drives that offer terabytes for less than US$ 500 (like the 10 TB G-Drive). Or a 1 TB SSD for less than US$ 150.

Why would anyone in his right mind pay more than US$ 1000 for 256 or 512 GB? Which is the minimum these days in my opinion, with 4K contents.

Well, in general, Apple has always limited the amount of options you have on their devices. An iPad can theoretically do anything a Mac can, but Apple limits it deliberately.

The file system is hidden, USB-C is restricted to whatever files and apps Apple allows, the apps on the homescreen are always stuck on the same grid, etcetera.

You could wonder why this is the case, maybe it's for the same reason you can't open up the device and install your own battery. Complete control to ensure everything works like Apple wants.

In any case, I think it's only the 5% or less of the total user base that thinks these things are deal breakers. For most people, it's fine and Apple seems to aim for the average user with iPad. What they may or may not do in the future, who knows. Just my thoughts.
 

Dave-Z

macrumors 6502a
Jun 26, 2012
881
1,483
Whenever I see these discussions about how limited the iPAD is I wonder if Apple cripples the HW/SW on purpose of if they are utterly incompetent. Or both.

Both, probably. But Apple has often done this. I find it frustrating, but I'm not in the majority because I'm tech-savvy and like to control everything and tweak settings, etc.

which begs the question if we shouldn't buy the US$ 400 versions of the iPADs instead

This is the exact thought I have. I'm currently using a 12.9" iPad Pro 2nd gen. but I think it's my last. After this I'll probably buy whatever "9.7-inch" model is available. I use mostly my own self-hosted services and storage, so I can easily get away with the cheapest option. Going down to that screen size will suck, but at the end of the day that iPad doesn't do much less than the near $2000 model.

I think it's only the 5% or less of the total user base that thinks these things are deal breakers.

Agreed.

I've been iPad-only (or iPad-primary, rather) for over a year and iOS is easily my favourite operating system, but I cannot justify the price increases when there is very little functional difference between the base and high-end models. For me, I think I'm going to move to a Linux laptop as my primary machine. (But I compare this with many, many others I know and for them an iPad really does do everything they need--even the base model.) iOS development is severely under-paced compared to the hardware. There is so much potential but Apple is just taking way too long. I still love the OS, but I'm not going to reconsider it as a primary tool until Apple adds a bit more to it. As I (and others) have said elsewhere, if Apple wants to charge laptop prices they need to make sure the iPad can do everything a laptop can do.
 

nviz22

Cancelled
Jun 24, 2013
5,277
3,071
Both, probably. But Apple has often done this. I find it frustrating, but I'm not in the majority because I'm tech-savvy and like to control everything and tweak settings, etc.



This is the exact thought I have. I'm currently using a 12.9" iPad Pro 2nd gen. but I think it's my last. After this I'll probably buy whatever "9.7-inch" model is available. I use mostly my own self-hosted services and storage, so I can easily get away with the cheapest option. Going down to that screen size will suck, but at the end of the day that iPad doesn't do much less than the near $2000 model.



Agreed.

I've been iPad-only (or iPad-primary, rather) for over a year and iOS is easily my favourite operating system, but I cannot justify the price increases when there is very little functional difference between the base and high-end models. For me, I think I'm going to move to a Linux laptop as my primary machine. (But I compare this with many, many others I know and for them an iPad really does do everything they need--even the base model.) iOS development is severely under-paced compared to the hardware. There is so much potential but Apple is just taking way too long. I still love the OS, but I'm not going to reconsider it as a primary tool until Apple adds a bit more to it. As I (and others) have said elsewhere, if Apple wants to charge laptop prices they need to make sure the iPad can do everything a laptop can do.

With the current regime, I think Apple will not accomplish a Surface Go or Pro competitor with x86 programs and lite apps. The tablet market is really decaying outside of Apple/Microsoft/Samsung/Google, so maybe there is a preference for iOS in of itself rather than just x86 + iOS apps together.

I think the iPad Pro ought to run full programs, but Apple won't let that happen anytime soon. Plus, there could be people so defensive over their iPad Pro purchases being a "complete PC replacement," that you can't get them to budge over their perspectives.
 

ValO

macrumors 68000
Sep 16, 2012
1,747
687
I still think Apple should have made it possible to hardwire a Mac mini or other mac to the usb-c port, making it a monitor for the mac(non touch, disabled) and the ability to reserve a part of the internal storage of the iPad for transferring/dropping Mac foto, video and audio files from your Mac.
So you can leave your Mac at home and take the iPad with you on the road, having access to your important Mac files and the ability to do your work on the go, and, when you are at home , connect your Mac and being able to access these files from your Mac again, etc.

This would be the perfect way for apple to keep making money from big storage tiers of the iPad , still sell macs, etc. it would be a great companion to your Mac instead of canibalizing it.

Perhaps in the near future? They didn’ t make it USB-C for nothing...
 

sunapple

macrumors 68030
Jul 16, 2013
2,841
5,482
The Netherlands
I still think Apple should have made it possible to hardwire a Mac mini or other mac to the usb-c port, making it a monitor for the mac(non touch, disabled) and the ability to reserve a part of the internal storage of the iPad for transferring/dropping Mac foto, video and audio files from your Mac.
So you can leave your Mac at home and take the iPad with you on the road, having access to your important Mac files and the ability to do your work on the go, and, when you are at home , connect your Mac and being able to access these files from your Mac again, etc.

This would be the perfect way for apple to keep making money from big storage tiers of the iPad , still sell macs, etc. it would be a great companion to your Mac instead of canibalizing it.

Perhaps in the near future? They didn’ t make it USB-C for nothing...

Or you could buy a MacBook? You can use iPad as a display BTW, with Astropad.

I have all of my files in sync between Mac and iPhone with iCloud Drive, isn't that the same as what you're proposing?
 
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ValO

macrumors 68000
Sep 16, 2012
1,747
687
Or you could buy a MacBook? You can use iPad as a display BTW, with Astropad.

I have all of my files in sync between Mac and iPhone with iCloud Drive, isn't that the same as what you're proposing?

Principle is the same, but I mean a shared folder that is not in the cloud, but on device, with more speed because of the usb-c speed instead of over WiFi/LTE, and offline possibilities.
Same goes for the use of the iPad as a usb-c monitor for your Mac , no lag because of WiFi, etc.
 

ValO

macrumors 68000
Sep 16, 2012
1,747
687
I don’ t think that is quite the thing that I mean. That is more like tethering your iPad en Mac for internet to use iCloud. That is something different than I mean.
Otherwise why is every youtuber and reviewer complaining about not being able to access your Mac and photo files without airdropping/sd cards readers and not being able to read external drives? Or use cloudservices without LTE or wifi, etc.
 

sunapple

macrumors 68030
Jul 16, 2013
2,841
5,482
The Netherlands
Principle is the same, but I mean a shared folder that is not in the cloud, but on device, with more speed because of the usb-c speed instead of over WiFi/LTE, and offline possibilities.
Same goes for the use of the iPad as a usb-c monitor for your Mac , no lag because of WiFi, etc.

It’s technically possible, but the future is the cloud so I can’t imagine this will ever be realized. I can also see some huge upsides to the cloud like automatic syncing.

Anyway, I have to admit I don’t fully understand what the point of your idea is exactly. It’s less practical than a MacBook, more expensive, so why do you want it?

The point of this thread is to replace your MacBook with iPad, using it as a display or syncing with Mac mini is not really the issue there.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,253
6,736
I can also see some huge upsides to the cloud like automatic syncing.

Just chiming in to say technically automatic syncing is possible without the cloud if you could just sync directly from device to device. It could be automatic when both devices are on the same WiFi network. Away from WiFi though it might have to be manual via the airdrop protocol or something. The other disadvantage is you’d have to wait until you get home to have your brand new files backed up to say, time machine, albeit automatically via WiFi. But personally I’d much prefer that to paying monthly forever. Also your files would be more private and secure that way. But Apple and other companies would rather we pay monthly.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,993
34,282
Seattle WA
Just chiming in to say technically automatic syncing is possible without the cloud if you could just sync directly from device to device. It could be automatic when both devices are on the same WiFi network. Away from WiFi though it might have to be manual via the airdrop protocol or something. The other disadvantage is you’d have to wait until you get home to have your brand new files backed up to say, time machine, albeit automatically via WiFi. But personally I’d much prefer that to paying monthly forever. Also your files would be more private and secure that way. But Apple and other companies would rather we pay monthly.

Yeah, cloud = continuous storage and access fees and unavailable in many places I travel so I avoid it.
 
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