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secretk

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2018
1,494
1,229
With the M1, what is very clear for me now is that the iPad is just a different device. Now with the M1, the iPad cannot be a better traditional laptop as it has now lost its advantage on thermals, battery life, instant-on or the performance per watt. The M1 Air really feels like an iPad as a daily carry.
Agree with this.
But even with the M1, the iPad still feels faster because of its OS. Touch is instinctive and the direct input of the finger still beats a large trackpad in terms of interacting with the computer. The Apple Pencil is something a Mac laptop will never have.
Here I would say it depends. There are cases where touch is not the faster method. There are cases where I definitely prefer using a mouse (hate trackpads and do not use them at all) than having to touch the screen as fingers are not precise enough. So I would say 50/50 here and it depends on the apps you are using.
The M1 really showed a faster, better, implementation of a traditional computer which is still very fun but not really as compelling as an iPad.

And actually the M1 made it clearer that the iPad is the main candidate replacement for the modern computer, whatever that will look like in 5 years.
I honestly never saw the iPad more compelling than my laptop. The reason I have iPad is the pencil. If there was no pencil support I would not have bought an iPad. And I have to be honest that the concept behind the Microsoft Surface laptop is compelling to me. They need to work on the software side though but yeah if in the future I can have a laptop that can turn into tablet and has pencil support, the iPad would be out of the question because iPadOS is too basic for my needs. The lack of multitasking (background processes) stops me from ever considering iPad as something more than companion device.
 
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sunking101

macrumors 604
Sep 19, 2013
7,423
2,659
The laptop has been dying a slow death for years and the iPad was king but Apple have allowed it to stagnate as a 'large iPhone' for so long that recently tablets have been rumoured to be dying too. Now along comes the M1 processor and everyone is raving about non-touch old fashioned laptops again.

So what's it to be? Nobody needs a smartphone, a tablet, a laptop and a desktop these days but what exactly do we need? What does the average man or woman on the street need for their computing life when most things can be done on any one of these devices?
 
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subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,258
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Apple does their fair share of muddying the waters in this regard. And rightly so--they put a lot of effort into both the Mac and the iPad.
Yeah I don’t think Apple ever devalued the Mac as much as some people thought when they were giving the iPad so much attention. Mac was just the older brother who seemed to get neglected when the new baby iPad was born, but it was only because the baby needed a lot of attention temporarily. While Apple probably still believes the iPad will become more of the everyman computing device, I think Apple sees both as having a vital role.
I am note sure how you can speak of “the hope”?
When Apple made the iPad, Steve Jobs famously said tablets are like cars and PCs are like trucks, and that people went from mostly using trucks to mostly using cars.
Agree with this.

Here I would say it depends. There are cases where touch is not the faster method. There are cases where I definitely prefer using a mouse (hate trackpads and do not use them at all) than having to touch the screen as fingers are not precise enough. So I would say 50/50 here and it depends on the apps you are using.

I honestly never saw the iPad more compelling than my laptop. The reason I have iPad is the pencil. If there was no pencil support I would not have bought an iPad. And I have to be honest that the concept behind the Microsoft Surface laptop is compelling to me. They need to work on the software side though but yeah if in the future I can have a laptop that can turn into tablet and has pencil support, the iPad would be out of the question because iPadOS is too basic for my needs. The lack of multitasking (background processes) stops me from ever considering iPad as something more than companion device.
I agree, iPads and Macs have fundamental differences which give both advantages and disadvantages. To say that one does/will completely eclipse the other is to deny that people have many use cases and no one tool can be optimized for all of them.

Nobody needs a smartphone, a tablet, a laptop and a desktop these days
I have a smartphone, a small tablet, a big tablet, a big laptop, and a desktop, and I need all of them haha. Granted a lot of that has to do with my job, but no matter what job I have, I think at minimum I’d need a smartphone (for light general use when I’m out), small tablet (for heavy reading consumption and quick productivity), and a small laptop (for general productivity). Combining or consolidating devices any more than that would take too big of a hit for my liking.
That aside, you make a good point, there’s a lot of overlap in functionality between all these devices—so why do they all exist and which do we need? Obviously, they all have certain strengths that differentiate between them, which is great for us consumers, because we all have different needs and wants. So it’s a good question because it really forces each of us to ask “what do I want and what am I trying to accomplish?” Answering this answers which device(s) we need. But this is a very personal question that we can really only answer for ourselves, so I don’t know if there’s much point in asking this question on behalf of the average person. Because 1) none of us can know who the average person is without taking a mass survey, and 2) what the average person needs doesn’t affect what I need as an individual.
 

spiderman0616

Suspended
Aug 1, 2010
5,670
7,499
Yeah I don’t think Apple ever devalued the Mac as much as some people thought when they were giving the iPad so much attention. Mac was just the older brother who seemed to get neglected when the new baby iPad was born, but it was only because the baby needed a lot of attention temporarily. While Apple probably still believes the iPad will become more of the everyman computing device, I think Apple sees both as having a vital role.
Agree. Some people seem to think if Apple improves the Mac, the iPad is on its way out. Or if Apple improves the iPad, the Mac is on its way out. One does not have to fail for the other to be successful. I personally happen to love both. I just don't need to OWN both, because I had mostly been using the iPad Pro as a laptop anyway.

It's kind of a paradox for me. I was using the iPad for so many things that it became obvious over time that the 12.9" model was the tool I really needed. But once I got the 12.9" model and used it for a few months, it became obvious that a laptop was the tool I really needed. And I was fine with the iPad Pro being that laptop-type tool--it did everything I needed it to do. I have no complaints whatsoever about it. (Other than the fact that I wish 3rd party app developers would support iPadOS features better.)

But then the M1 Macs launched, and we all know how that turned out. For me, suddenly iPad-as-mostly-a-laptop was not the right tool anymore.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,258
6,737
Agree. Some people seem to think if Apple improves the Mac, the iPad is on its way out. Or if Apple improves the iPad, the Mac is on its way out. One does not have to fail for the other to be successful. I personally happen to love both. I just don't need to OWN both, because I had mostly been using the iPad Pro as a laptop anyway.

It's kind of a paradox for me. I was using the iPad for so many things that it became obvious over time that the 12.9" model was the tool I really needed. But once I got the 12.9" model and used it for a few months, it became obvious that a laptop was the tool I really needed. And I was fine with the iPad Pro being that laptop-type tool--it did everything I needed it to do. I have no complaints whatsoever about it. (Other than the fact that I wish 3rd party app developers would support iPadOS features better.)

But then the M1 Macs launched, and we all know how that turned out. For me, suddenly iPad-as-mostly-a-laptop was not the right tool anymore.
Will you be getting/keeping an iPad as a companion device to your laptop? If so, which one?
 

spiderman0616

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Aug 1, 2010
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Will you be getting/keeping an iPad as a companion device to your laptop? If so, which one?
Maybe at some point for reading? I just don't feel like I need it while I have the iPhone 12 Pro Max. That thing is plenty big enough for reading and even taking care of work stuff when I'm not near a larger screen. I just think between the Pro Max and the M1 Mac, the iPad Pro seems like a heavier, thicker, slower, shorter battery life redundancy.

That sounds harsh--I really do love iPads. And we have two others in my house that I can use if I want to.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,258
6,737
Maybe at some point for reading? I just don't feel like I need it while I have the iPhone 12 Pro Max. That thing is plenty big enough for reading and even taking care of work stuff when I'm not near a larger screen. I just think between the Pro Max and the M1 Mac, the iPad Pro seems like a heavier, thicker, slower, shorter battery life redundancy.

That sounds harsh--I really do love iPads. And we have two others in my house that I can use if I want to.
Gotcha. Depending on the person, a big phone and light laptop can definitely cover pretty much all of the uses of a tablet. Heck, like sunking101 was saying, any one device can almost do everything (with compromises).
It’s true, an iPad Pro can have those disadvantages, particularly heavier and thicker with the magic keyboard than a MacBook Air. That’s the price for the iPad’s modularity, which is more valuable to some than others.
 
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George Knighton

macrumors 65816
Oct 13, 2010
1,392
346
I traded in my MacBook Pro ahead of the rollout of Apple Silicon, because I wanted to be set for whatever the future held.

However, in the mean time, I started using my iPad Pro 2020 with Magic Keyboard, and I have to say that for what I usually do, this works fine.

I have yet to order an M1 MacBook because I think that there's a pretty good chance that I just don't need a MacBook any longer.

The only thing I can think of that I'm missing is an antique secure terminal application that we use on our Mac OS machines. I still have an iMac for that in my office, and I'll see if not having that application in the field turns out to be a handicap.

So far, though, I'm loving the combination of touchpad, keyboard, and touch screen.

I'll separate the iPad out if I end up somewhere in a hotel room, and can watch a movie lying in bed, a little more easily than I would have with the MacBook.
 

Mahasamatman

macrumors regular
Sep 26, 2017
100
82
The only thing I can think of that I'm missing is an antique secure terminal application that we use on our Mac OS machines. I still have an iMac for that in my office, and I'll see if not having that application in the field turns out to be a handicap.
would this fit the bill - https://ish.app/

I installed it a while back and was able to write and run small C programs - Hello World to be honest. Depends if it’s an installable package I suppose...
 

thebeachbum

macrumors member
Oct 28, 2012
67
32
Texas
The iPad advantage, to me, is cellular data. I can carry it anywhere and get to the internet without WIFI or hot spot. Wish I could do that with my Mac laptop.
 

Jonathantuba

macrumors 6502
Oct 6, 2017
423
393
UK
The iPad advantage, to me, is cellular data. I can carry it anywhere and get to the internet without WIFI or hot spot. Wish I could do that with my Mac laptop.
That is a big advantage. I use the cellular most of the time when I am out of my home or office. Avoids having to use public Wi-Fi and I find it usually even gives higher speeds.
 

rss2193

macrumors member
May 12, 2020
34
15
I've been monitoring this thread for awhile espcially since the M1 MacBook Air came out. I currently have a iPad Pro (11", 2018) and it holds a $445 trade in value still with Apple. I feel more and more for my needs that I find myself needing a physical keyboard attached to whatever I am using the most. While the iPad Pro is great for more portable use when on the couch, lying in bed, traveling, I still feel like its limitng me as a student who works on Word, Outlook quite often who isnt really bothered by something being on my lap (even if its used for YouTube, Netflix, Hulu etc). I've startd to get into coding (more of a hobby to learn at this point) so thats another reason as to why I'm consdiering the switch.

I held off on getting the earlier 2020 MBA release with Intel chips because the Silicon chips seemed to be just around the corner and I am definitley glad I did. Am I crazy for considering trading it it for the base config MBA M1? I just cant seem to seem why I would hold on to the iPad Pro at this point and maybe pick up the new iPad Air down the road for more portable needs. Would apprecaite some outside opinions!
 

Mainsail

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,430
3,235
I've been monitoring this thread for awhile espcially since the M1 MacBook Air came out. I currently have a iPad Pro (11", 2018) and it holds a $445 trade in value still with Apple. I feel more and more for my needs that I find myself needing a physical keyboard attached to whatever I am using the most. While the iPad Pro is great for more portable use when on the couch, lying in bed, traveling, I still feel like its limitng me as a student who works on Word, Outlook quite often who isnt really bothered by something being on my lap (even if its used for YouTube, Netflix, Hulu etc). I've startd to get into coding (more of a hobby to learn at this point) so thats another reason as to why I'm consdiering the switch.

I held off on getting the earlier 2020 MBA release with Intel chips because the Silicon chips seemed to be just around the corner and I am definitley glad I did. Am I crazy for considering trading it it for the base config MBA M1? I just cant seem to seem why I would hold on to the iPad Pro at this point and maybe pick up the new iPad Air down the road for more portable needs. Would apprecaite some outside opinions!
All three of my college aged kids tell me that a good laptop is the most important tool for a student. So, the M1 MBA seems like the right choice to me. At $900 with student discount, the M1 MBA is a great investment that will easily last 4 years of college and beyond.
 
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rss2193

macrumors member
May 12, 2020
34
15
All three of my college aged kids tell me that a good laptop is the most important tool for a student. So, the M1 MBA seems like the right choice to me. At $900 with student discount, the M1 MBA is a great investment that will easily last 4 years of college and beyond.
Yes I would probably have to agree with your kids asssetment as well needing a great laptop to be successful which makes me continue to lean towards trading in the iPad Pro to chip into the cost of the M1 and i think as you mentioned as well, it will service for the years beyond schooling.
 

chrism_scotland

macrumors regular
Nov 11, 2018
198
145
I'd like to see Apple move the camera on the iPad so that when its in landscape orientation the camera is on the top; like it is on most laptops, the Surface tablets and the Samsung Galaxy S7+; the current placement on the iPad makes it almost useless to me for video conferencing.
 

Jonathantuba

macrumors 6502
Oct 6, 2017
423
393
UK
I'd like to see Apple move the camera on the iPad so that when its in landscape orientation the camera is on the top; like it is on most laptops, the Surface tablets and the Samsung Galaxy S7+; the current placement on the iPad makes it almost useless to me for video conferencing.
For me the current position is not ideal for Face ID as sometimes my arm obscures, but I don’t generally find it a problem for video conferencing, although I will often raise the tablet to near eye height (using an adjustable iPad stand) for best conferencing angle.

It is strange that Apple still persists in making the iPad Pro as predominantly portrait viewing device, when all the sold accessories are for using in landscape orientation.
 

jeyf

macrumors 68020
Jan 20, 2009
2,173
1,044
If you need a secure independent internet connection you can teather from your iPhone to another device. Just seems beyond that its just another mouth to feed.

my company did an interview for a tec position and declined a candidate because they used a apple. Go figure everyone has an opinion. I would ask your student before gifting them with what father knows best. Maybe on a mac a virtual windows would work good enough.
 

chrism_scotland

macrumors regular
Nov 11, 2018
198
145
For me the current position is not ideal for Face ID as sometimes my arm obscures, but I don’t generally find it a problem for video conferencing, although I will often raise the tablet to near eye height (using an adjustable iPad stand) for best conferencing angle.

It is strange that Apple still persists in making the iPad Pro as predominantly portrait viewing device, when all the sold accessories are for using in landscape orientation.

It is odd; especially with the introduction of the £350 Magic Keyboard that doesn't support portrait at all!
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,258
6,737
If you need a secure independent internet connection you can teather from your iPhone to another device. Just seems beyond that its just another mouth to feed
I agree, I’m totally content using hotspot and saving $20/month or however much (plus the cost of purchasing cellular option). But I could see it being worth it if one uses cellular often enough.
 
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subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,258
6,737
I'd like to see Apple move the camera on the iPad so that when its in landscape orientation the camera is on the top; like it is on most laptops, the Surface tablets and the Samsung Galaxy S7+; the current placement on the iPad makes it almost useless to me for video conferencing.

For me the current position is not ideal for Face ID as sometimes my arm obscures, but I don’t generally find it a problem for video conferencing, although I will often raise the tablet to near eye height (using an adjustable iPad stand) for best conferencing angle.

It is strange that Apple still persists in making the iPad Pro as predominantly portrait viewing device, when all the sold accessories are for using in landscape orientation.
They also have the Apple logo on the back and start up screen in portrait orientation. Apple is really sticking to their iPad is tablet first philosophy (they still consider the keyboard etc as optional accessories to expand function, not as central to iPad identity), and to them tablets are usually used in portrait. Though that of course varies from person to person. For me, in tablet mode I usually do reading and writing in portrait, video in landscape, so just depends on what I’m doing more of.
 
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Seanm87

macrumors 68020
Oct 10, 2014
2,209
4,413
I'd like to see Apple move the camera on the iPad so that when its in landscape orientation the camera is on the top; like it is on most laptops, the Surface tablets and the Samsung Galaxy S7+; the current placement on the iPad makes it almost useless to me for video conferencing.

Agreed. I hate it being on the side. I think the reason is because the landscape side has the pencil charger magnet. There’s probably not enough room in there for the camera sensor as well.
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,258
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Agreed. I hate it being on the side. I think the reason is because the landscape side has the pencil charger magnet. There’s probably not enough room in there for the camera sensor as well.
Good thought, but the counterargument is the magnetic pencil was only introduced in 2018—the iPad Pro and Smart Keyboard came out in 2015 and they kept the camera on the short side (through multiple generations of iPad Pros and keyboards). Also Apple is a company that goes to great technological lengths to meet their design goals, I imagine they could figure out the magnet situation if they want. I think it’s more likely not their design goal because of their philosophy that iPad is portrait-first, evidenced by the Apple logos on the iPad. But philosophies can change.
 

chrism_scotland

macrumors regular
Nov 11, 2018
198
145
Agreed. I hate it being on the side. I think the reason is because the landscape side has the pencil charger magnet. There’s probably not enough room in there for the camera sensor as well.

I know that Apple can be stubborn; but even they can't overlook that Video Conferencing has ballooned due to Covid this year; personally for work its not a huge issue as I've got a Surface Pro X too but its annoying; I like to be able to use my device while I'm conferencing.
 

sparksd

macrumors G4
Jun 7, 2015
10,000
34,320
Seattle WA
I'd like to see Apple move the camera on the iPad so that when its in landscape orientation the camera is on the top; like it is on most laptops, the Surface tablets and the Samsung Galaxy S7+; the current placement on the iPad makes it almost useless to me for video conferencing.

Or at least support a webcam as a USB peripheral.
 
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Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,653
4,482
I know that Apple can be stubborn; but even they can't overlook that Video Conferencing has ballooned due to Covid this year; personally for work its not a huge issue as I've got a Surface Pro X too but its annoying; I like to be able to use my device while I'm conferencing.
I do agree. As a university teacher that is now teaching entirely via zoom, however, I don't use my S7+ since the mobile version of zoom is too limited for teaching. Still it's enough for participants in my opinion. I am looking forward to Apple doing what Samsung did and put the webcam where it belongs in a tablet of the size of the iPad pro...
 
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