iPad Pro iPad has become quite useless and I regret purchasing it

[DeepSix]

I agree, it's an horizontal device. That's why I keep both. It's like, want a mini tablet or a large tablet, each has its advantages. So you can make your choice, or choose to have both. I don't use iPads in portrait for browsing. Only for viewing documents or reading.
S-pen placement is actually a better compromise than iPad pro. The pencil has to charge above the tablet, which prevents the proper placement of the camera. And the S-pen does not need charging except for some special functions, so I keep it like the pencil above the tablet most of the time.
I agree that multitasking is better on a desktop setup, but again Samsung is much better than iPad on this, because of size (14.6in) and full external monitor support with DeX on the monitor and OneUI on the tablet (lacking in iPadOS).

That's why I think the target audience for the Ultra is quite a bit different than ipad users. I felt the S-pen in the store and didn't like it as much as the Pencil 2. Much prefer the longer length and more width on the Pencil 2. I also wouldn't get the Ultra without the keyboard, so then it makes it a $2000CDN device. And that's outrageous, it's what I spent on my gaming laptop.

After using Surface Pros for the past 8 or 9 years, I got tired of all the attaching and detaching of the keyboard. That's why now i prefer seperate devices - laptop used as a laptop, tablet used as a tablet.

 

[DeepSix]

I have heard many times people saying if you spend over $1000 on a tablet you want to do more than consuming content (that's the laptop replacement narrative). They would be even more puzzled that some can spend $2000 for the 16GB version of the M1 pro (as you did, and in my case $1400 for the 16GB ultra), but then they find normal that people spend as much or more on things like a big 4k OLED TV, just for consuming content (let alone the fact that you, like me, use your tablets for quite a few years instead of upgrading every generation and spend much less on smartphones).
As for Android tablets, until a couple of years ago they were not worth it, except if you wanted as cheap as possible, but things have started to change thanks to Samsung. They main strength is however video watching. For your usage (a lot of reading) the aspect ratio makes them not an option, let alone the fact that the largest use OLED. Windows tablets, when used a lot for reading, are either too heavy or too under-powered compared to either Android or Apple, and they tend to get hot and some even noisy, so no surprise that they were not an good option either.

I don't know if DEX is there yet. It's really nice but still a work in progress. I'd probably give it a few more years to see if Samsung gets more developer support from apps.

Windows tablets (primarily the Surface Pro) all suck since Windows 10 or even 11 isn't optimized for touch UI. Windows 8 was but I hated that OS. In fact touchscreens on any windows laptop is highly overrated. Surface Pros make for a killer ultra portable 2.1lb laptop but totally not worth it if this is all you use it for. Too little spec for too much money, plus garbage quality control from Microsoft. But Surface Pros were my travel on the go device and it was the best when going through airports, diners because of it's form factor and being able to run off USB-C. And since the tablet experience is atrocious on Surface Pros, it's not worth the money for the 2-in-1 form factor despite what Microsoft wants us all to believe. I would never buy another 2-in-1 again, too many compromises.

Ultrabooks have come a long way and if someone doesn't need touch, the money would be much better spent on that. Even the cheapest ultrabook now would demolish the base Surface Pro for benchmarks.

 

[George Dawes]

The hardware is great but the software is utter garbage.

I was very close to smashing my pro up yesterday when I had to do an email with several attachments, the whole interface is so awful it beggars belief , in Mac OS it’s so incredibly simple , but in iOS it takes ages and loads of bizarre actions , it’s a toy , it’s fun for games and browsing the web , anything else forget it . Thank god I kept my iMac .

 

[Digitalguy]

That's why I think the target audience for the Ultra is quite a bit different than ipad users. I felt the S-pen in the store and didn't like it as much as the Pencil 2. Much prefer the longer length and more width on the Pencil 2. I also wouldn't get the Ultra without the keyboard, so then it makes it a $2000CDN device. And that's outrageous, it's what I spent on my gaming laptop.

After using Surface Pros for the past 8 or 9 years, I got tired of all the attaching and detaching of the keyboard. That's why now i prefer seperate devices - laptop used as a laptop, tablet used as a tablet.

I agree, the pencil 2 feels better than the s-pen, but that's not a deal breaker for me. I don't like the feel of the pencil 1 either, but that's not a deal breaker for me. Maybe if most of what you do is drawing, it's different. But I can't draw. I only use it for annotating.
I disagree about the keyboard. I don't plan to use it much, I only got it because it was free on launch, and it's nice to have a kickstand when needed, but this will be a tablet first, not a laptop replacement. I doubt many will buy the keyboard after launch, especially at full price.
I don't particularly like the surface idea, it's not easy to use on your lap. It's a compromised laptop, unless you want one device to do everything.

 

[Digitalguy]

I don't know if DEX is there yet. It's really nice but still a work in progress. I'd probably give it a few more years to see if Samsung gets more developer support from apps.

Windows tablets (primarily the Surface Pro) all suck since Windows 10 or even 11 isn't optimized for touch UI. Windows 8 was but I hated that OS. In fact touchscreens on any windows laptop is highly overrated. Surface Pros make for a killer ultra portable 2.1lb laptop but totally not worth it if this is all you use it for. Too little spec for too much money, plus garbage quality control from Microsoft. But Surface Pros were my travel on the go device and it was the best when going through airports, diners because of it's form factor and being able to run off USB-C. And since the tablet experience is atrocious on Surface Pros, it's not worth the money for the 2-in-1 form factor despite what Microsoft wants us all to believe. I would never buy another 2-in-1 again, too many compromises.

Ultrabooks have come a long way and if someone doesn't need touch, the money would be much better spent on that. Even the cheapest ultrabook now would demolish the base Surface Pro for benchmarks.

I almost completely disagree on this. The problem with Windows tablets is hardware not software.
I think the world is divided between couch tablet people and non couch tablet people (I am in the second category) and they have a hard time understanding each other. The couch people think that if you never use your tablet on a couch you must use it as a laptop replacement, which is far from true.
I can replicate virtually all the tablet functionality of Android an iPadOS on Windows, I don't need apps and I am perfectly fine using the browser for a lot of things. I am taking the additional functionality over some ergonomics any day, especially with a stylus where needed, and I can understand the frustration of people, like the comment above, that consider iPadOS garbage whenever you want to do anything more than the basics, and sometimes even for the basics....
The issue with Windows is X86. If you can make a Windows on Arm tablet which is fast, runs cool and fanless, has great speakers and is light as an iPad, for me that's the ultimate tablet. I think WoA will get there at some point in the future.
PS A lot of what I do with my tablets is remoting into Windows laptops/desktops in order to have the best of both, a light tablet I can carry around the house or outside, and the added power of windows apps, so I simulate an iPad running Windows

 

[The_Interloper]

I can replicate virtually all the tablet functionality of Android an iPadOS on Windows, I don't need apps and I am perfectly fine using the browser for a lot of things. I am taking the additional functionality over some ergonomics any day, especially with a stylus where needed, and I can understand the frustration of people, like the comment above, that consider iPadOS garbage whenever you want to do anything more than the basics, and sometimes even for the basics....

The thing people fail to acknowledge when calling Windows a terrible tablet OS is that it doesn't need dumbed-down apps for most things we use a tablet for like web browsing, watching Netflix etc. Being able to use a desktop-class browser (with full extension support and uBlock ad-blocking) is killer on such a small touch-enabled device; even YouTube is a vastly superior experience on a Surface than an iPad due to the proper ad-blocking (which is impossible in the YT iPadOS app without a Premium subscription).

The downside is the touch (not tablet) experience is lacking - but that's where pen support comes in. Surface users have been magentically snapping a pen to the edge of the screen for 7 years now, where it can easily be grabbed to overcome the small touch targets on some web sites. Windows has always had pen support at the heart of the Surface experience; it acts like a precision mouse for all those occasions when touch is lacking.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Sacrilege perhaps but I would posit that using an iPad Pro as a main computer works a lot better if you have a Windows computer instead of a Macbook. I use an iPad Pro for 90% of work needs but there is software like AutoCAD, Fusion, Meshlab etc that is either exactly the same as the Mac version or (in the case of meshlab) unavailable on the Mac.

Windows machines are catagorically much better gaming machines as well.

 

[sparksd]

The thing people fail to acknowledge when calling Windows a terrible tablet OS is that it doesn't need dumbed-down apps for most things we use a tablet for like web browsing, watching Netflix etc. Being able to use a desktop-class browser (with full extension support and uBlock ad-blocking) is killer on such a small touch-enabled device; even YouTube is a vastly superior experience on a Surface than an iPad due to the proper ad-blocking (which is impossible in the YT iPadOS app without a Premium subscription).

The downside is the touch (not tablet) experience is lacking - but that's where pen support comes in. Surface users have been magentically snapping a pen to the edge of the screen for 7 years now, where it can easily be grabbed to overcome the small touch targets on some web sites. Windows has always had pen support at the heart of the Surface experience; it acts like a precision mouse for all those occasions when touch is lacking.

I agree - I have a 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7 (and 2021 12.9 & Mini 6).

 

[rui no onna]

Sacrilege perhaps but I would posit that using an iPad Pro as a main computer works a lot better if you have a Windows computer instead of a Macbook. I use an iPad Pro for 90% of work needs but there is software like AutoCAD, Fusion, Meshlab etc that is either exactly the same as the Mac version or (in the case of meshlab) unavailable on the Mac.

Windows machines are catagorically much better gaming machines as well.

I kinda agree. It seems to be mainly Mac users who lament not being able to use MacOS on the M1 iPad Pros (likely due to similar hardware and price point). iPad Pros have had a $1K price tag since 2018 and software capabilities were even more limited back then on iOS 11/12. It just wasn't a big deal until the Macs started switching to Apple Silicon.

I use iPads as my main personal computer and Windows as my main work computer. For me, this setup works very well. I'd certainly like it if I could get a fan-less, cool-running Windows laptop ala-MacBook Air with support for Windows x86 programs ala-Rosetta 2. However, the existence of such a laptop doesn't negate my need (want really) for an iPad.

 

[1CaesaR1]

I used to have an iPad Air 2 that I used mostly for media consumption. Sold it a while ago and was just using standard Android tablets for a few years to watch movies when traveling. Recently decided to get an iPad again - was overwhlemed by the variety of iPads (Air, Pro, standard, mini and then various versions of each) and was debating whether it was worth spending $300+ on the 9th gen. Found an awesome deal on a 2 month old 11" iPad Pro 2021 with Apple Pencil for $500. While it was more than I wanted to spend, I just couldn't pass up that deal thinking how "future proof" it was. Now that I have had it for a few days, trying to figure out the use cases beyond just web surfing and media. I use Windows machines for my work, but I think one thing I will use this for is note taking as I am getting used to the Apple Pencil with the paper feel screen protector.

 

[DeepSix]

I agree, the pencil 2 feels better than the s-pen, but that's not a deal breaker for me. I don't like the feel of the pencil 1 either, but that's not a deal breaker for me. Maybe if most of what you do is drawing, it's different. But I can't draw. I only use it for annotating.
I disagree about the keyboard. I don't plan to use it much, I only got it because it was free on launch, and it's nice to have a kickstand when needed, but this will be a tablet first, not a laptop replacement. I doubt many will buy the keyboard after launch, especially at full price.
I don't particularly like the surface idea, it's not easy to use on your lap. It's a compromised laptop, unless you want one device to do everything.

Samsung should have copied Microsoft and made a built-in kickstand. Having to use the back cover for it just adds more bulk and weight. This is one thing Microsoft did right on the Surface Pros, an awesome kick stand. You get used to using the Surface Pro as a laptop on your lap. Obviously it's not as stable as a laptop but the vents are also on the top so you also don't have to worry about covering them like with a standard laptop. A Surface Pro is perfectly fine to use on carpet, a couch or bed, I can't say the same for regular laptops (though many do even though you're blocking the vents).

 

[DeepSix]

I almost completely disagree on this. The problem with Windows tablets is hardware not software.
I think the world is divided between couch tablet people and non couch tablet people (I am in the second category) and they have a hard time understanding each other. The couch people think that if you never use your tablet on a couch you must use it as a laptop replacement, which is far from true.
I can replicate virtually all the tablet functionality of Android an iPadOS on Windows, I don't need apps and I am perfectly fine using the browser for a lot of things. I am taking the additional functionality over some ergonomics any day, especially with a stylus where needed, and I can understand the frustration of people, like the comment above, that consider iPadOS garbage whenever you want to do anything more than the basics, and sometimes even for the basics....
The issue with Windows is X86. If you can make a Windows on Arm tablet which is fast, runs cool and fanless, has great speakers and is light as an iPad, for me that's the ultimate tablet. I think WoA will get there at some point in the future.
PS A lot of what I do with my tablets is remoting into Windows laptops/desktops in order to have the best of both, a light tablet I can carry around the house or outside, and the added power of windows apps, so I simulate an iPad running Windows

Well I think it's software. Windows is just not optimized for touch like iOS is. A lot of things are just too small in Windows, even worse if someone uses 100% scaling. You pretty much can only navigate it with the Surface Pen at that point. It's just not refined like iOS is. Even basic stuff like rotating the screen is clunky on Surface Pros compared to the ipad. There are times where my Surface Pro won't even rotate it's screen and i would have to give it 3 or 4 tries before it finally reacts. You would think after 9 generations, Microsoft would get this right but no it's still a clunky mess. Even compared to DEX, DEX is much more optimized for touch with fingers.

 

[Digitalguy]

Samsung should have copied Microsoft and made a built-in kickstand. Having to use the back cover for it just adds more bulk and weight. This is one thing Microsoft did right on the Surface Pros, an awesome kick stand. You get used to using the Surface Pro as a laptop on your lap. Obviously it's not as stable as a laptop but the vents are also on the top so you also don't have to worry about covering them like with a standard laptop. A Surface Pro is perfectly fine to use on carpet, a couch or bed, I can't say the same for regular laptops (though many do even though you're blocking the vents).

I have a surface pro clone from hp (also a surface pro 3, but that's too old and I barely use it anymore), and no, I can't get used to having it on my lap when I travel, the keyboards goes over my pockets fulls of keys and stuff, if I push it back I have to put the screen at a very uncomfortable angle or it falls. On a couch it's a very different story, but that's not how I use it. At home I don't care, it's fine. But for travelling a laptop is much better. The only real advantage for me is that the aspect ratio is very good for when I remote into it from my iPad... which I do very often... ?
Having said that I agree about the built-in kickstand

 

[Digitalguy]

Well I think it's software. Windows is just not optimized for touch like iOS is. A lot of things are just too small in Windows, even worse if someone uses 100% scaling. You pretty much can only navigate it with the Surface Pen at that point. It's just not refined like iOS is. Even basic stuff like rotating the screen is clunky on Surface Pros compared to the ipad. There are times where my Surface Pro won't even rotate it's screen and i would have to give it 3 or 4 tries before it finally reacts. You would think after 9 generations, Microsoft would get this right but no it's still a clunky mess. Even compared to DEX, DEX is much more optimized for touch with fingers.

Windows 11 seems to be improving touch use quite a bit compared to 10. But again, I'll take less ergonomics / less refined any day if they give an iPad pro with M1 running Windows natively instead of iPadOS.

 

[Rafterman]

Well I think it's software. Windows is just not optimized for touch like iOS is. A lot of things are just too small in Windows, even worse if someone uses 100% scaling. You pretty much can only navigate it with the Surface Pen at that point. It's just not refined like iOS is. Even basic stuff like rotating the screen is clunky on Surface Pros compared to the ipad. There are times where my Surface Pro won't even rotate it's screen and i would have to give it 3 or 4 tries before it finally reacts. You would think after 9 generations, Microsoft would get this right but no it's still a clunky mess. Even compared to DEX, DEX is much more optimized for touch with fingers.

But the strength is, Windows has great sacaling ability. On the Surface Pro 8, I jumped it to 300 percent, and everything is a lot more touchable now - while still maintsaining good resolution and screen realestate.

 

[sparksd]

But the strength is, Windows has great sacaling ability. On the Surface Pro 8, I jumped it to 300 percent, and everything is a lot more touchable now - while still maintsaining good resolution and screen realestate.

I stick at 200% (SP7) but you’re absolutely right.

 

[Rafterman]

I stick at 200% (SP7) but you’re absolutely right.

What's convenient is, it's easily changable via right click display settings. So if you need a little more real estate, you can switch it.

 

[DeepSix]

I have a surface pro clone from hp (also a surface pro 3, but that's too old and I barely use it anymore), and no, I can't get used to having it on my lap when I travel, the keyboards goes over my pockets fulls of keys and stuff, if I push it back I have to put the screen at a very uncomfortable angle or it falls. On a couch it's a very different story, but that's not how I use it. At home I don't care, it's fine. But for travelling a laptop is much better. The only real advantage for me is that the aspect ratio is very good for when I remote into it from my iPad... which I do very often... ?
Having said that I agree about the built-in kickstand

I got used to Surface Pro on the lap over time but I always prefer to have it on something else. It’s form factor excelled when using it in airports or hotels, and I used it in a lot of airports and hotels over the years. So much that unless I had to do serious work, I could never go back to using a full sized laptop when travelling. In the hotel rooms I use the full sized laptop but it stays there, otherwise the Surface Pro is far superior when on the go. It fits perfectly on dinner tables for two, coffee shop tables whereas a full sized laptop would be awkward. It’s also so easy to pull out and put away, though the hibernation and shutdown could go faster.

What I like about using Surface pro on the lap is that your legs dont get hot from the heat and no fan noise is always nice. Can pretty much whip it out and start it up anywhere, anytime since I can power it off USBC. Don’t have to go looking for AC outlets or be tied to certain spots just so you can access the outlets. Being able to run a computer off a USBC battery pack is a game changer.

Pulling out a full sized laptop isn’t bad but it just feels cumbersome in comparison. You can use a surface pro on a plane but definitely not a full sized laptop. All I can say though is, travelling with both a full sized laptop and a surface pro is an amazing combo, especially if you’re someone who needs power in a GPU laptop but also needs ultra portability too. But I’m sure adding an iPad too would make it even better, despite you now having three devices to bring.

 

[UBS28]

The M1 12.9 iPad Pro is fine for most people really. Most people do very basic things on their laptop / desktop that the iPad Pro can also do.

But on the other hand, you can do those basic things on your smartphone too, just on a smaller screen.

 

[UBS28]

What I like about using Surface pro on the lap is that your legs dont get hot from the heat and no fan noise is always nice. Can pretty much whip it out and start it up anywhere, anytime since I can power it off USBC. Don’t have to go looking for AC outlets or be tied to certain spots just so you can access the outlets. Being able to run a computer off a USBC battery pack is a game changer.

The 16“ M1 Max MacBook Pro those all those things better than the Surface pro (including battery life) while having the power of a 28-core Intel Mac Pro with you.

I have to agree with the OP, that these latest Mac’s make tablets pointless, except for stuff that requires you to use the Apple Pencil.

Btw, i am not saying that I don’t like my M1 12.9 iPad Pro. But it would be the 1st device I would get rid of if I had to sell something.

 

[Digitalguy]

I got used to Surface Pro on the lap over time but I always prefer to have it on something else. It’s form factor excelled when using it in airports or hotels, and I used it in a lot of airports and hotels over the years. So much that unless I had to do serious work, I could never go back to using a full sized laptop when travelling. In the hotel rooms I use the full sized laptop but it stays there, otherwise the Surface Pro is far superior when on the go. It fits perfectly on dinner tables for two, coffee shop tables whereas a full sized laptop would be awkward. It’s also so easy to pull out and put away, though the hibernation and shutdown could go faster.

What I like about using Surface pro on the lap is that your legs dont get hot from the heat and no fan noise is always nice. Can pretty much whip it out and start it up anywhere, anytime since I can power it off USBC. Don’t have to go looking for AC outlets or be tied to certain spots just so you can access the outlets. Being able to run a computer off a USBC battery pack is a game changer.

Pulling out a full sized laptop isn’t bad but it just feels cumbersome in comparison. You can use a surface pro on a plane but definitely not a full sized laptop. All I can say though is, travelling with both a full sized laptop and a surface pro is an amazing combo, especially if you’re someone who needs power in a GPU laptop but also needs ultra portability too. But I’m sure adding an iPad too would make it even better, despite you now having three devices to bring.

Your "full sized laptop" really made me laugh.... Do you you know that there are laptops that are actually lighter than the surface pro and just as compact while having a 13.3in screen (vs 12.3in)?
My Samsung notebook 9 from 2017 (i7 16GB RAM) is actually lighter than the surface pro (without the keyboard!). But even without something as light as the Samsung you will find many 13in laptops which as much lighter than the surface with keyboard (the 13in Thinkpad nano is a recent example).
I have been traveling with the Samsung and the HP surface pro clone (because the HP had LTE, in case tethering did not work).
And let me tell you the Samsung was far superior to the surface pro. No fan noise in the surface pro? It depends on which model you get (my HP is fanless but surface pro is only fanless with the i5 since the SP5, but you couldn't get a 16GB RAM fanless model till the SP7). USB C is only present since the pro 7 in 2019. My Samsung had it already it years before that and also had hdmi port which was a godsend for presentations.
At some point I even stopped carrying the HP since I was not using it. I just carried an LTE iPad mini to tether my "full sized" Samsung laptop.
As to why I didn't upgrade my SP3 to a new surface, Surface pro did not get LTE until SP5 and then again until SP7+ in 2021. And above all because the keyboard (I have the SP4 keyboard) was nothing special. The HP has Thinkpad level keyboard. The surface pro is far from that, even the 12.9 iPad pro magic keyboard feels better than it (but keyboard preference can be personal)

 

[George Dawes]

Perhaps they should have two iPad os’s , one simple one for the air etc and one more advanced for the supposed pro models ?

 

[John981]

The tablet has its place in media consumption, notetaking and digital art, but beyond that, any 300€ notebook will be able to serve you in a wider variety of use cases. The iPad Pros in particular are simply too expensive for what they can do.

 

[Digitalguy]

The tablet has its place in media consumption, notetaking and digital art, but beyond that, any 300€ notebook will be able to serve you in a wider variety of use cases. The iPad Pros in particular are simply too expensive for what they can do.

the iPad pros are just premium iPads (with a price to match), there is nothing professional about them. They are just the high end version of the line. That does not mean they are not worth the money if you want a premium device for media consumption, note taking, digital art etc. For most type of (paid) work different from art, they don't come close to what a desktop OS can do, despite some people having managed to run their business with them (they could have done it even with the basic iPad and they are the exception rather than the rule). They can be a useful companion device to a laptop/desktop, even for work, though.

 

[George Dawes]

Just now I had to leave the iPad and go up three flights of stairs to my iMac as the stupid piece of junk can't seem to handle an email with a few pdfs in it , the interface for attaching stuff is just - pathetic ...

Pro hardware teamed to a fisher price level OS