iPad Pro iPad has become quite useless and I regret purchasing it

[SalisburySam]

I agree and I will take it even one peg further and say that does not mean you CAN’T ditch your laptop for an iPad. Most people probably can! But that doesn’t mean it has to physically BE a laptop. This is the mental hurdle people can’t get over.

Exactly for me as well. I have an iPhone7, 2020 iPadPro, and a 2017 iMac. This suite of equipment does everything I want/need. Each device has its advantages for many tasks and I use each, i.e., one does not replace one of the others. The future likely holds an upgrade from iPhone7 to iPhone12mini after the iPhone14 is available, hopefully bringing the iPhone12mini down a bit in price…the 12 will be a nice upgrade for me. Similarly, I may upgrade the iMac to whatever comes out in the next round of iMac machines, but I’m doing fine for now.

 

[prospervic]

And so what? I don’t understand comments like these. Yes, we are all aware of much inexpensive options… I can probably find something cheaper than a M1 MBA if I want a “casual” computing option.

@prospervic didn’t have to spend 2k on a iPad Pro… could have settled for a base iPad. People could settle for a iPhone SE instead of choosing flagship iPhones. But in the end, it’s what we want.

You mean YOU could have settled for a base iPad. For my needs and workflow (including editing photos and 4K video on the go, for which larger screens are better) the 12.9 is what I require.

 

[prospervic]

I came across Steve Job's 2010 iPad launch introduction. I love the way he describes how the iPad fits into the void between the smartphone and the laptop. Jobs is a salesman, but he does a great job of showing the different use scenarios where the iPad can really shine. Of course, the iPad has become a much more capable device......lighter, faster, thinner, more base storage, lower base price, cameras, etc.. And, iPadOS has added numerous features: e.g. slide-over, side by side, universal control, files, mark-ups, mouse-like pointer, etc.. But, at its core, I think much of what was presented in 2010 still applies. I suspect folks would be much less likely to be disappointed in their iPad if they used it in the middle lane that Steve described.

That 2010 launch video should be required viewing for anyone contemplating an iPad purchase (especially the higher end models), as it makes clear what the intent of the product is. They should also completely ignore any of Tim Cook’s subsequent comments about iPads.

I love my M1 iPad Pro 12.9 and make great use of it, but I’m under no illusions about it replacing my Mac.

 

[roach1245]

That 2010 launch video should be required viewing for anyone contemplating an iPad purchase (especially the higher end models), as it makes clear what the intent of the product is. They should also completely ignore any of Tim Cook’s subsequent comments about iPads.

Why watch a 12 year old video? Technology progresses.

Before you had phones which 'intention' was only 'calling' and cameras which 'intention' was only 'photo taking'. Nowadays 99% of the people use 1 device for both of these things (thank Apple for that).

Not far from now the same will happen to the redundant tablet + laptop combination - Apple's competition is becoming better by the day in creating laptops with detachable screens that can be used as productive tablets by itself (even foldable ones nowadays).

I hope Apple itself will do so though rather than keep on pairing iPad's immense computing power with the dumbed-down iPadOS which requires you to SSH or Remote-Desktop into a laptop to do productive work.

Keep iPadOS on it for the consumption part and add the MacOS option too for the productive part - everybody will be happy.

 

[sparksd]

That 2010 launch video should be required viewing for anyone contemplating an iPad purchase (especially the higher end models), as it makes clear what the intent of the product is. They should also completely ignore any of Tim Cook’s subsequent comments about iPads.

I love my M1 iPad Pro 12.9 and make great use of it, but I’m under no illusions about it replacing my Mac.

Except that Jobs is long dead and Cook runs the company.

 

[prospervic]

Why watch a 12 year old video? Technology progresses.

Before you had phones which 'intention' was only 'calling' and cameras which 'intention' was only 'photo taking'. Nowadays 99% of the people use 1 device for both of these things (thank Apple for that).

Not far from now the same will happen to the tablet + laptop combination - Apple cannot stop the competition.

People can use iPads however they wish, of course. I use mine as a quasi-laptop when traveling, then it’s back to the ”full” computer when I return home. But this endless argument about “can an iPad replace a Mac” can in many ways be traced to Tim Cook’s unfortunate comment: “why would you ever buy a PC?”

The fact is, anyone whose workflow requires a desktop operating system should buy a device that has precisely that. I’ve spent several years and much $$ trying to shoehorn my Mac work onto an iPad. Ain’t gonna happen. Once I gave up and just used both devices in accordance with their strengths and design intent, I was much happier.

Are there people for whom iPad is computer-enough? Absolutely. But those who are thinking “hey, this can be a lighter, thinner touchscreen Mac” should watch that aforementioned 12 year-old video. iPad was then, and still is an “in-between” device. Apple clearly indicated this in their Mission Control demo, which showed Federighi using and iPad AND a MacBook (as well as an iMac).

 

[roach1245]

People can use iPads however they wish, of course. I use mine as a quasi-laptop when traveling, then it’s back to the ”full” computer when I return home. But this endless argument about “can an iPad replace a Mac” can in many ways be traced to Tim Cook’s unfortunate comment: “why would you ever by a PC?”

The fact is, anyone whose workflow requires a desktop operating system should buy a device that has precisely that. I’ve spent several years and much $$ trying to shoehorn my Mac work onto an iPad. Ain’t gonna happen. Once I gave up and just used both devices in accordance with their strengths and design intent, I was much happier.

Are there people for whom iPad is computer-enough? Absolutely. But those who are thinking “hey, this can be a lighter, thinner touchscreen Mac” should watch that aforementioned 12 year-old video. iPad was then, and still is an “in-between” device. Apple clearly indicated this in their Mission Control demo, which showed Federighi using and iPad AND a MacBook (as well as an iMac).

Yeah I agree with you that it's still (unfortunately) an 'in-between' device: it is like big iPhone good for consumptive rather than productive use for most people. People should not be fooled into thinking it can replace macOS/Windows/Linux.

At the same time this will change soon as it's not the computing power that is the bottleneck but rather Apple's business strategy not wanting to cannibalize either its iPad or MacBook sales.

I suspect the competition will soon force Apple's hand in though as laptops with detachable screens that can be used as productive tablets by itself are developing at a rapid pace.

 

[Ludatyk]

You mean YOU could have settled for a base iPad. For my needs and workflow (including editing photos and 4K video on the go, for which larger screens are better) the 12.9 is what I require.

Obviously, a larger screen is better to edit photos and 4k videos. But it’s not as if you CANNOT use the base iPad to do those tasks.

You are paying for a better experience and you have every right to do so, that’s all I’m trying to explain

 

[Mainsail]

People can use iPads however they wish, of course. I use mine as a quasi-laptop when traveling, then it’s back to the ”full” computer when I return home. But this endless argument about “can an iPad replace a Mac” can in many ways be traced to Tim Cook’s unfortunate comment: “why would you ever by a PC?”

The fact is, anyone whose workflow requires a desktop operating system should buy a device that has precisely that. I’ve spent several years and much $$ trying to shoehorn my Mac work onto an iPad. Ain’t gonna happen. Once I gave up and just used both devices in accordance with their strengths and design intent, I was much happier.

Are there people for whom iPad is computer-enough? Absolutely. But those who are thinking “hey, this can be a lighter, thinner touchscreen Mac” should watch that aforementioned 12 year-old video. iPad was then, and still is an “in-between” device. Apple clearly indicated this in their Mission Control demo, which showed Federighi using and iPad AND a MacBook (as well as an iMac).

I largely agree with this. I have tried numerous times to make an iPad my primary or only computer, and it is just so frustrating. And believe me, my needs are pretty simple. Right now I am experimenting with a similar setup to you. I use the ipad with Smart Keyboard when mobile. I use the MBA as desktop when at my home/office for heavier lifting (productivity apps and multi-tasking). Occasionally, I need to take the MBA with me to meetings, but so far, I can largely get by with just the iPad. We will see how it goes. I have only been doing it for a week or two.

 

[prospervic]

Yeah I agree with you that it's still (unfortunately) an 'in-between' device: it is like big iPhone good for consumptive rather than productive use for most people. People should not be fooled into thinking it can replace macOS/Windows/Linux.

At the same time this will change soon as it's not the computing power that is the bottleneck but rather Apple's business strategy not wanting to cannibalize either its iPad or MacBook sales.

I suspect the competition will soon force Apple's hand in though as laptops with detachable screens that can be used as productive tablets by itself are developing at a rapid pace.

Making iPad into a standalone computer while simultaneously retaining the simplicity that the vast majority of users want/need appears to be an enormously complex and challenging task, and perhaps that’s why Apple appears to be moving at such a slow pace. The hybrid PC devices still have you using Windows when in tablet mode, the very type of complicated and confusing thing most iPad users wish to avoid.

I’ve been using Stage Manager in the iPadOS 16 public beta, and while it’s an exciting step in the right direction, I can see how many “normal” users might find it a touch bewildering (at least at this stage of development). Hence, Apple‘s wise decision to make it an optional setting.

 

[Ludatyk]

I’ve spent several years and much $$ trying to shoehorn my Mac work onto an iPad. Ain’t gonna happen. Once I gave up and just used both devices in accordance with their strengths and design intent, I was much happier.

It’s quite simple. And I’ve been using the iPad for several years now… I approach it from the standpoint of application requirement. If a user is considering an iPad as a laptop replacement… does the iPad have the applications they need to successfully complete a task.

Pouring money into the iPad for the sake of turning it into a Mac won’t solve the application issue.

I can see how many “normal” users might find it a touch bewildering (at least at this stage of development). Hence, Apple‘s wise decision to make it an optional setting.

Because majority of iPad users are accustomed to one-window app. Imagine the roles were reversed and giving a Mac/PC user… an operating system they cannot resize windows or do any window management. It will be an earthquake of criticism.

I enjoy using Stage Manager daily… from external display support to using it on the iPad itself.. But I can understand it from the perspective of a casual iPad user… they will be against it.

 

[roach1245]

Making iPad into a standalone computer while simultaneously retaining the simplicity that the vast majority of users want/need appears to be an enormously complex and challenging task, and perhaps that’s why Apple appears to be moving at such a slow pace. The hybrid PC devices still have you using Windows when in tablet mode, the very type of complicated and confusing thing most iPad users wish to avoid.

I’ve been using Stage Manager in the iPadOS 16 public beta, and while it’s an exciting step in the right direction, I can see how many “normal” users might find it a touch bewildering (at least at this stage of development). Hence, Apple‘s wise decision to make it an optional setting.

I hope Apple will give people two options at startup: iPadOS or macOS. Both already exist. People who prefer the current simplicity can just keep on using as it is right now whilst those who need to do some serious productive work can switch to macOS.

Even if the iPad would be able to run (barebones) macOS without the touchscreen functioning - but requiring keyboard and touchpad instead (e.g. Magic Keyboard) - it'd already be a major step in the right direction. The hardware and software is there - the latest iPad even has the M1 chip and up to 16GB RAM - it's almost just a matter of enabling it - but Apple won't do it at this stage simply not to torpedo its MacBook sales.

(I tried Stage Manager but wouldn't call it a step in the direction of productive work - the ability to split-screen applications was already working flawlessly 20 years ago on computers. I think even the people on Apple's Stage Manager team would be very embarrassed if people really thought of this as invention - it was one of the least exciting 'major' features I have ever seen to be honest).

 

[Ludatyk]

(I tried Stage Manager but wouldn't call it a step in the direction of productive work - the ability to split-screen applications was already working flawlessly 20 years ago on computers. I think even the people on Apple's Stage Manager team would be very embarrassed if people really thought of this as invention - it was one of the least exciting 'major' features I have ever seen to be honest).

I’m curious… what are your issues with Stage Manager? And how is it not in the direction of productive work?

You can switch between applications instantaneously while having the ability to resize them for reference purposes, how is that not productive?

 

[roach1245]

I’m curious… what are your issues with Stage Manager? And how is it not in the direction of productive work?

You can switch between applications instantaneously while having the ability to resize them for reference purposes, how is that not productive?

Split-screening was already possible on iPads before Stage Manager - but having the ability to run and show programs side-by-side and being able to resize them is a 'feature' that was already possible on Windows 2000 and earlier. I don't see extending simple-iPadOS in that way as a roadmap towards productive work.

I hope they'll re-allocate the Stage-Manager resources - now that it has been implemented - towards enabling a barebones-macOS-without-touchscreen-functionality on iPads instead.

 

[rui no onna]

I hope Apple will give people two options at startup: iPadOS or macOS. Both already exist. People who prefer the current simplicity can just keep on using as it is right now whilst those who need to do some serious productive work can switch to macOS.

Even if the iPad would be able to run (barebones) macOS without the touchscreen functioning - but requiring keyboard and touchpad instead (e.g. Magic Keyboard) - it'd already be a major step in the right direction. The hardware and software is there - the latest iPad even has the M1 chip and up to 16GB RAM - it's almost just a matter of enabling it - but Apple won't do it at this stage simply not to torpedo its MacBook sales.

(I tried Stage Manager but wouldn't call it a step in the direction of productive work - the ability to split-screen applications was already working flawlessly 20 years ago on computers. I think even the people on Apple's Stage Manager team would be very embarrassed if people really thought of this as invention - it was one of the least exciting 'major' features I have ever seen to be honest).

Caveat there, I think services brings in more revenue than either iPad or Mac now. I think Apple’s more interested in keeping a locked down system like iPadOS versus adding a more open one like macOS on the iPad.

 

[sparksd]

Caveat there, I think services brings in more revenue than either iPad or Mac now. I think Apple’s more interested in keeping a locked down system like iPadOS versus adding a more open one like macOS on the iPad.

Services revenue is now around the equal of Mac + iPad together (iPhone being the largest revenue generator).

 

[Ludatyk]

Split-screening was already possible on iPads before Stage Manager - but having the ability to run and show programs side-by-side and being able to resize them is a 'feature' that was already possible on Windows 2000 and earlier. I don't see extending simple-iPadOS in that way as a roadmap towards productive work.

I hope they'll re-allocate the Stage-Manager resources - now that it has been implemented - towards enabling a barebones-macOS-without-touchscreen-functionality on iPads instead.

Wait a min...you want macOS functionality, but you don’t want Stage Manager?

Because Stage Manager brings macOS functionality as far as resizing windows because the iPad has never had this feature. Is Stage Manager on the iPad different from the traditional way of resizing or managing windows? Absolutely! It takes awhile to adjust to it. But this idea of bringing macOS to the iPad won’t happen when it doesn’t benefit Apple at all.

 

[roach1245]

Wait a min...you want macOS functionality, but you don’t want Stage Manager?

Because Stage Manager brings macOS functionality as far as resizing windows because the iPad has never had this feature. Is Stage Manager on the iPad different from the traditional way of resizing or managing windows? Absolutely! It takes awhile to adjust to it. But this idea of bringing macOS to the iPad won’t happen when it doesn’t benefit Apple at all.

I would indeed rather have them enabling macOS as a second startup option - rather than extending simple-iPadOS with 20-year-old features such as Stage Manager (resizing windows.... which is 0.0001% of macOS-and-its-ecosystem functionality).

If we go down that path, what will next year's major iPadOS feature be? The ability to drag and drop files in a file browser? And we should be excited about that? Sounds like a Windows 2000 playbook.

I surely believe it won't benefit Apple now - cannibalizing its own sales, but with the competition catching up creating convertible laptops with detachable screens serving as stand-alone productive tablets - won't be too long.

 

[Slartibart]

Yep… if stage manger was dismissed in the past, it begs the question what necromancer sorcery makes Apple think now, that this is better than plain "extendable desktop"-mode for the display?

You probably find some “argument” for it - but it looks/feels/is something which carries the flair of "no idea. Did we have something… anything?… from the past? let’s see wether it sticks."


EDIT: to be clear, I don’t hate Stage Manager. But it’s not even close to the "best" solution - which I expect from Apple - it’s just… okay-ish… it’s like the Netflix app supporting chrome cast and airplay… make the Files app identical to the Finder - yeah, without Sockets if you must - but some form of universal extended display, as well as "mirrored", please.

 

[Ludatyk]

You probably find some “argument” for it - but it looks/feels/is something which carries the flair of "no idea. Did we have something… anything?… from the past? let’s see wether it sticks."

I’m guessing you are referring to “shrinkydink” back in 2007. Back then, the Mac already had resizing and window management. I think Apple looked at the concept and decided to shelve it until they had better use for it.

Obviously, there’s been a lust for resizing and window management on the iPad from the public… this isn’t new. I think Apple came back to that particular concept and tried to build on it visually while trying to design it specifically for the iPad. Craig already went on record mentioning this concept was meant to help with clutter in regards to working with multiple windows.

And I think Apple started from the standpoint of exactly that. And then there‘s the idea of not trying to disrupt the flow of what makes an iPad an iPad. I’ve been using extensively from release date and each beta it has improved in terms of fluidity. I think the major criticism on it… is that Apple is tightly controlling the experience.

Whereas windows can resize while moving wherever when dragging a new window onto the “stage” and I think that can annoy people that’s accustomed to mac or windows operating system. And I do agree with those people to a certain extent, because sometimes when I drag an app onto “stage”… I have to consistently rearrange my windows.

However, the more I use Stage Manager… I get accustomed to navigating around it, trying to incorporate keyboard shortcuts and finding new methods on managing my windows.

 

[Slartibart]

I’m guessing you are referring to “shrinkydink” back in 2007. Back then, the Mac already had resizing and window management. I think Apple looked at the concept and decided to shelve it until they had better use for it.

Of course we do not know why, but for some reason the decided in the past that’s not good enough.

Still they brought it now back on the Mac.

Due to to the lack of information there isn’t really much to add here IMHO.

And I completely agree: I am getting used to Stage Manager on iPadOS too and for sure it improves the use of an additional monitor with iPA und iPP.
But somehow… it feels strange… non polished… it’s probably just my slightly distorted expectation towards certain things Apple does… it brings a specific functionality a subpopulation of users obviously wanted, but the implementation lacks…
yep, it’s beta, but as we already established, it’s an “old” concept - there was time to think on what happens when you use e.g. Facetime within… and various other stumbling blocks. 🤓

 

[sparksd]

Of course we do not know why, but for some reason the decided in the past that’s not good enough.

Still they brought it now back on the Mac.

Due to to the lack of information there isn’t really much to add here IMHO.

And I completely agree: I am getting used to Stage Manager on iPadOS too and for sure it improves the use of an additional monitor with iPA und iPP.
But somehow… it feels strange… non polished… it’s probably just my slightly distorted expectation towards certain things Apple does… it brings a specific functionality a subpopulation of users obviously wanted, but the implementation lacks…
yep, it’s beta, but as we already established, it’s an “old” concept - there was time to think on what happens when you use e.g. Facetime within… and various other stumbling blocks. 🤓

I'm a longtime Windows user and really like the ability to freely and easily move and resize a number of windows when working on my large 4K monitor. The current SM implementation - I have the public beta on an M1 12.9 - feels to me like a primitive multi-windowing, multi-tasking environment and not a polished, versatile system.

 

[Ludatyk]

But somehow… it feels strange… non polished… it’s probably just my slightly distorted expectation towards certain things Apple does… it brings a specific functionality a subpopulation of users obviously wanted, but the implementation lacks…
yep, it’s beta, but as we already established, it’s an “old” concept - there was time to think on what happens when you use e.g. Facetime within… and various other stumbling blocks. 🤓

Strange? Yes. Non polished? I agree to a certain extent.

I think what you and @sparkd is missing… this is a whole new territory for the iPad. And in no way I’m defending Apple here… because Stage Manager is buggy. But the concept makes sense. You have a shelf sitting on the left side to quickly access windows/apps (for which you have the option to remove).

And from there you can determine how you want your windows/apps grouped. The approach makes it easy for an iPad user to navigate around their workspace. I think coming from a Mac or Windows desktop interface… it can seem distorted. But looking strictly at it from the iPad perspective…. I can understand the concept.

Improvements will come and it won’t be released until late fall. Whatever Apple decides is polarizing from the new battery percentage on the lockscreen to the shadowing of text on white background. Stage Manager will be refined and less buggy throughout the beta cycle.

 

[sparksd]

Strange? Yes. Non polished? I agree to a certain extent.

I think what you and @sparkd is missing… this is a whole new territory for the iPad. And in no way I’m defending Apple here… because Stage Manager is buggy. But the concept makes sense. You have a shelf sitting on the left side to quickly access windows/apps (for which you have the option to remove).

And from there you can determine how you want your windows/apps grouped. The approach makes it easy for an iPad user to navigate around their workspace. I think coming from a Mac or Windows desktop interface… it can seem distorted. But looking strictly at it from the iPad perspective…. I can understand the concept.

Improvements will come and it won’t be released until late fall. Whatever Apple decides is polarizing from the new battery percentage on the lockscreen to the shadowing of text on white background. Stage Manager will be refined and less buggy throughout the beta cycle.

What strikes me about it is that this is not new technology or UI concepts. And yes, it may still be in Beta but the fundamentals of their implementation are there and I would think they had been in work for some time. I'll be sticking to my laptop for my multi-tasking work and stick with the single focused task approach on the iPad.

 

[Ludatyk]

What strikes me about it is that this is not new technology or UI concepts. And yes, it may still be in Beta but the fundamentals of their implementation are there and I would think they had been in work for some time. I'll be sticking to my laptop for my multi-tasking work and stick with the single focused task approach on the iPad.

Yeah, you would think Apple had time to work out the details… but back in 2007 the concept was design for the Mac. You might not remember, but back iOS 9 Apple introduced SplitScreen… it was strangely odd when it first started. With the method of having to pick an app was clunky, having to go through several apps to get the app to use for SplitScreen.

And M1 iPad was announced in 2021… I have a feeling the wheels were in motion a few months before, but trying to implement something that never existed on an iPad can be somewhat challenging when considering we all were dealing with COVID restrictions.