Really!
Please explain how not being able to use files across apps, load files onto the device as USB storage from a computer, or save files into a user-accessible area is BETTER than not?
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iPad needs a file system. Yesterday.
- Thread starter CoryTV
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Really!
Please explain how not being able to use files across apps, load files onto the device as USB storage from a computer, or save files into a user-accessible area is BETTER than not?
Some time ago AppleInsider reported that apps could choose to be accessibe as a wifi-share:
I don't own an iPad, so I can't confirm if this is actually implemented. But if it is, wouldn't it be possible to move files between apps who chose to share their documents using an app which allow manimulating files on wifi-shares (like ezShare)?
I don't own an iPad, so I can't confirm if this is actually implemented. But if it is, wouldn't it be possible to move files between apps who chose to share their documents using an app which allow manimulating files on wifi-shares (like ezShare)?
Oh it has one, it's just invisible to the user by design. The OP seems to want to take a new class of device and make it exactly like the the old devices he's used to. You know, the one's that failed as a tablet. No vision. No ability to change. A very common affliction.
For some reason beyond me my workplace doesn't have wifi. It would have been handy to be able to simply plug it in with USB and transfer docs over without having to install iTunes or worry about any syncing issues between that and my home pc. I tend to be paranoid in regards to confidential documents/excel sheets and the cloud so that option's out.
Ive encountered some frustration wanting to attach an image to a Facebook post in safari but got over it pretty quickly. It would be nice to be able to access photos at least, but I can't see how opening just. Portion of the filesystem would please anyone.
Exactly... I've run into a similar thing trying to explain how lightroom works... Once you get it, you get it...
One idea is to handle this at the application level. Kinda like all the web browsers do with the "would you like to make this your default browser" prompt.
I really don't see a file manager coming because:
1) makes it that much more easier to load software yourself and bypass iTunes
2) Stevie J. Wants to dumb it down the OS for everyone to be able to use. I mean let's face it, there are people still alive that didn't grow up with a computer and still don't own a computer.
And these are the type of people that are going to be able to afford an iPad?
Anyways, I wouldn't agree that a common file area (like your photos have) is a "techie" thing. Everyone with a brain knows what a flash drive is; how to place files onto them and how to open file on them. They even sell them at the corner drug store. I think this is all people are asking for. However, if they do this, it is seriously nearing a "computer's" capability and Apple doesn't want to cannibalize the MacBook.
I would like to think that I 'get it'.
Apple wants you to treat your documents like you do songs in iTunes. You can access them, just not directly.
The only thing Apple forgot was to make a desktop equivalent to manage that.
I can see it working brilliantly on the iPad...but we need a simple way to do it from our Macs too.
That being said...I still want apps to be able to communicate with eachother.
I'm personally hoping that the Dropbox iPad app will allow me to use Pages with it.
Apple wants you to treat your documents like you do songs in iTunes. You can access them, just not directly.
The only thing Apple forgot was to make a desktop equivalent to manage that.
I can see it working brilliantly on the iPad...but we need a simple way to do it from our Macs too.
That being said...I still want apps to be able to communicate with eachother.
I'm personally hoping that the Dropbox iPad app will allow me to use Pages with it.
I really think a drop box is in the works.
Remember OS 3.2 for iPad is very likely a special build and the next version will be a universal build for both iPhones and iPad with machine specific installs.
Apple doesn't sit around Cupertino trying to piss off techies but there is only so much they can do to release a product on time.
This is always the price to pay to be an early apple adopter but I am sure that software updates are on the near horizon to improve file handling.
not so quick. I know that my mother gets lost in the Finder sometimes.
Personally, I don't like dealing with filesystems directly if I don't have to. I'd rather deal with the metadata (titles, albums, groups) than the filenames. I love iTunes and iPod, and so does my mother.
The unfortunate reality is that Apple Pages does not work like iTunes and the iTunes "model" doesn't easily apply to things other than music.
Files are an illusion. Really, they're just a way of packaging and naming a stream of data. A 'file system' is just one way to organise collections of data streams.
For my undergraduate dissertation, I implemented a shared information system for GNOME inspired by the Haystack personal information manager. Rather than save application data into 'files', each application's data was seen as a partial view into a much larger graph-oriented data store. This allowed applications to share information across processes (and even between 'synced' computers) transparently, instantly and efficiently. Instead of information being tied up into 'silos' on a per-application basis, every application could work on the same information, adding and changing it as they saw fit. This allowed applications to be smaller and more modular and forgo the rather unnatural operation of 'saving' to a file separate to the process of confirming a change. Also, instead of dealing with (say) a 'vcard file', they could deal with a 'person' called John. It meant users could handle information semantically (in terms of what the information represents) rather than syntactically (how it is represented). The upshot in the tests I did? Much easier coding and much less indirection in the UI reducing the learning curve for users; a win-win situation.
My point is that you don't need an exposed file-system to be a powerful computer. There are other ways of abstracting the data storage system. These ways may be even more powerful and yet require less mental hoops from the users. In other words, don't ask for a specific solution to your problem. Be open-minded and flexible and instead ask for the best solution and let the engineers find that.
For my undergraduate dissertation, I implemented a shared information system for GNOME inspired by the Haystack personal information manager. Rather than save application data into 'files', each application's data was seen as a partial view into a much larger graph-oriented data store. This allowed applications to share information across processes (and even between 'synced' computers) transparently, instantly and efficiently. Instead of information being tied up into 'silos' on a per-application basis, every application could work on the same information, adding and changing it as they saw fit. This allowed applications to be smaller and more modular and forgo the rather unnatural operation of 'saving' to a file separate to the process of confirming a change. Also, instead of dealing with (say) a 'vcard file', they could deal with a 'person' called John. It meant users could handle information semantically (in terms of what the information represents) rather than syntactically (how it is represented). The upshot in the tests I did? Much easier coding and much less indirection in the UI reducing the learning curve for users; a win-win situation.
My point is that you don't need an exposed file-system to be a powerful computer. There are other ways of abstracting the data storage system. These ways may be even more powerful and yet require less mental hoops from the users. In other words, don't ask for a specific solution to your problem. Be open-minded and flexible and instead ask for the best solution and let the engineers find that.
I think that the iTunes model can apply to just about anything. Look at iPhoto, one never sees the files where his photos are, just sees them in iPhoto. The same thing even goes for Address book.
It seems obvious to me that Apple is moving towards this database style of file management. iPad only confirms this any more.
Think about this. If the iWork apps managed files the same way iPhoto does, and if iTunes allowed importing files from this iWork database the same way one does with pictures from iPhoto, would we need file management? I think not. The problem is not iPad, the problem is the lack of support from desktops.
ehh i disagree... can't tell you how many people i know that don't understand how to install or uninstall programs, couldn't open up terminal if you asked them, leave .dmg's on their desktop all the time because they don't understand how to install the app and eject the .dmg. I know many people that don't know how to change their background, don't understand that you can have something other than internet explorer, etc. Fact of the matter is, most people don't know how to use computers. Most people don't want to organize a 2,000 song library with folders and file names, people just want their stuff to work. Yeah it's not going to be for everyone, but why do you think apple has had such success in the past. The iPad is honestly perfect for so many people i know because it's simple to install and delete apps, they don't have to worry about digging around any file systems, everything just works and is simple and intuitive... just touch it. You have to think of how many people don't do actual work on their computers and just use them for browsing the net, watching videos, listening to music, checking facebook and twitter, read the news, etc. The iPad is not meant to replace a workers laptop, it is meant for an entirely different crowd!
I couldn't agree more—this is the direction Apple is moving, and I love it. I still think that it isn't as easy to apply the model to documents because users don't keep up with the metadata.
For entertainment data, it's easy enough. The metadata is already important: people want to find their music by artist, title, genre, and so on. Movies fall into similar categories (director, headliners, awards, titles…).
Photos were a little more difficult, so most software developers ask us to imagine a photo "album"—Aperture and Lightroom give photographers many options for organizing photos (the most notable being "projects"). Also, most cameras embed EXIF information into the pictures themselves, so software developers use that information to propagate and organize a database. In this case, there are a lot of convincing reasons people should use something like iPhoto (or even Photoshop Elements).
Documents, however, will be the most difficult. It would make sense for Apple to write something like an Aperture for documents. The iWork apps, just as you say, should work this way. The problem is that they would have to convince people to use these tools. Imagine having to fill out all of that metadata (author, subject mater, and so on).—but Evernote seems to be doing just fine right?
You know, it took me a long time to realize that iPad can be completely unique from every other OS out there, but still be a 'computer'.
All it needs is file management, and database based iWork is the only thing that I can think of that will still be very iPad.
All it needs is file management, and database based iWork is the only thing that I can think of that will still be very iPad.
You are absolutely correct. We created a new app just for the iPad called Rock Show. It works perfectly in the simulator. We wanted to be a part of the grand opening, so we submitted and were approved.
Immediately after getting the device yesterday morning, we knew there was a show-stopper bug in our app. Our app worked well on the iPad when you held the iPad "strongly" in portrait or landscape. However if you laid the iPad flat or sort of waffled between the two positions, the app would seize up and crash.
There was no way to know this would happen from just having the simulator. Besides crashing, there are software behavioral differences as well, some of which have been described by the Doodle Jump guys in this new nyt article.
While it is a bummer to have software with a known bug in it in the wild, it was worth it to be in at the grand opening of the app store. The good news is that we've identified the issue and have a fix going in very soon for 1.1 which we hope will have swift approval from Apple. I'm sure many other iPad developers are in the same boat.
Rob
I get what the OP is saying. It is so simple. They want people to use this for school, reading text books and stuff. What if you save notes you take on the text books and want to use another app to review them or email them or something. As it stands you can't
I know it isn't supposed to be a laptop replacement but so many here and in the media say that it is. This thing will never replace my laptop, just like for me my laptop will never replace my desktop.
But some of the basic things like sharing docs between apps would be a godsend and make this device that much better. That being said I will still use it and see how it fits in between my iphone, winmo phone, desktop and laptop.
I know it isn't supposed to be a laptop replacement but so many here and in the media say that it is. This thing will never replace my laptop, just like for me my laptop will never replace my desktop.
But some of the basic things like sharing docs between apps would be a godsend and make this device that much better. That being said I will still use it and see how it fits in between my iphone, winmo phone, desktop and laptop.
What iPad needs in my opinion is the same thing it now has for photos (shared space) for documents. In doesn't have to be something that would require a file manager. Just implement the same shared space the photos have for the other documents. It would still keep it simple, yet powerful.
I do not want a complex finder kind of system as the simple approach suits the iPad but it would be nice to have a My Docs folder and also be able to browse network shares over wifi.
It could replace my work computer if I could access Word, Excel and pdfs on my office network
I have a feeling this is going to be like copy/paste or MMS on the iPhone. Something that SHOULD have been there from day one but ended up not being integrated until updates much later.
I think the iPad will reveal its true potential once we really start to explore the practice of cloud-based personal computing. Being able to seamlessly explore your media on your computer, throwing it over onto the HD bigscreen with your Apple TV (also a long bet but may prove its place after some revision), or taking it with you on your iPad.
Having access to your media in high quality wherever you go, THAT is where it's at. The USER needs a file system for their personal content, but not inherently to access all the deep, dark hallways of the OS and file structure like on a desktop. I'd bet that Apple will bring a solution to the table after the iPhone OS4 comes out and brings an iPad update thereafter that will involve accessing your files remotely and bringing multi-tasking and the ability to flow media or data from one app into another.
These are valid concerns but I have faith that they'll be addressed; maybe later than we'd like. One thing is for sure, this device is going to be hard to compete with from PR alone regardless of how it does. The other device makers are chronically characterized as "me too" players. The App store obliterates the old PC pitch of having a large body of software available.
Like the iPhone, I was equally excited about the product and skeptical of its ability to succeed. From right this moment, it looks like they may have pulled off that magic of building/revolutionizing a market all over again. However you feel about them, they sure are doing some things right.
I think the iPad will reveal its true potential once we really start to explore the practice of cloud-based personal computing. Being able to seamlessly explore your media on your computer, throwing it over onto the HD bigscreen with your Apple TV (also a long bet but may prove its place after some revision), or taking it with you on your iPad.
Having access to your media in high quality wherever you go, THAT is where it's at. The USER needs a file system for their personal content, but not inherently to access all the deep, dark hallways of the OS and file structure like on a desktop. I'd bet that Apple will bring a solution to the table after the iPhone OS4 comes out and brings an iPad update thereafter that will involve accessing your files remotely and bringing multi-tasking and the ability to flow media or data from one app into another.
These are valid concerns but I have faith that they'll be addressed; maybe later than we'd like. One thing is for sure, this device is going to be hard to compete with from PR alone regardless of how it does. The other device makers are chronically characterized as "me too" players. The App store obliterates the old PC pitch of having a large body of software available.
Like the iPhone, I was equally excited about the product and skeptical of its ability to succeed. From right this moment, it looks like they may have pulled off that magic of building/revolutionizing a market all over again. However you feel about them, they sure are doing some things right.
Yeah I hope your right.
The problem I have is that I own a Macbook Air - I like the size and weight for travelling - I dont need the power of a Macbook Pro. The iPad replaces the Macbook Air around the house etc however until Apple allow simple file sharing im going to have to keep both
and I suppose that is prob what Apple are aware of - Macbook Air sales could really take a dent if the iPad gives the user more control
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While I would love onboard file management, I have found MobileMe iDisk to be a viable workaround for the lack of a file system, certainly for smaller files like photos and documents.
While I would love onboard file management, I have found MobileMe iDisk to be a viable workaround for the lack of a file system, certainly for smaller files like photos and documents.