All iPads iPadOS Really Needs Its "Mac OS X" Release

[bcortens]

This is spot on.

I've desperately wanted to use the iPad for productivity, but even with a keyboard and a trackpad, it's just so clumsy and restrictive to use more than one app at a time that I have always kept returning to the Mac.

Like you say, the iPad lacks an identity of its own. As it stands, it's a iOS that's being stretched to make it more "productive", but the fundamental design choices continue to hamper it.

I disagree, what holds the iPad back is bad software, especially from Apple.

The iPad can replace a Mac for many people, outside of some power user edge cases.
My phone is not needing some special identity to be useful, nor does my iPad. My iPad is useful because it is the device I most like working on, even with Apples bad software quality.

Examples:
I recently discovered why I’m having such a poor pages experience and it is entirely down to Apples bad iCloud Drive implementation (the way it is trying to upload the file while I’m in the middle of editing it seems to cause some hiccups in the editing flow).

Drag and drop is harder on iPad because the same gesture does two different things depending on how long you hold for before starting. Quickly drag a finger to scroll, tap and hold some medium amount of time and the drag to drag and drop.

Apple’s insistence on hiding away useful UI behind buttons and drop downs is also another impedance, it works a little better on the Mac where you have mouse hover but on iPad where everything is a specific action it slows things down more.

 

[transpo1]

Sounds great to me -- other than responding to emails, I basically just "consume" on my iPad Mini
(I include tons of website usage in that description)

It’s really Apple’s fault that people want more from iPadOS— when they started putting Mac-grade chips in them (the M1, M2) and giving us keyboards to go with them. So it’s no wonder that people are wondering why the OS can’t do more. Apple should just be brave and let them have it with the new iPad Pros— allow them to run as macOS machines when in keyboard mode. When buying the iPad Pros plus keyboard, consumers are going to be paying Mac-like prices anyway. Apple has to be brave enough to cannibalize their own products, as they were during the Steve Jobs-era.

 

[bcortens]

It’s really Apple’s fault that people want more from iPadOS— when they started putting Mac-grade chips in them (the M1, M2) and giving us keyboards to go with them. So it’s no wonder that people are wondering why the OS can’t do more. Apple should just be brave and let them have it with the new iPad Pros— allow them to run as macOS machines when in keyboard mode. When buying the iPad Pros plus keyboard, consumers are going to be paying Mac-like prices anyway. Apple has to be brave enough to cannibalize their own products, as they were during the Steve Jobs-era.

I know you’re ignoring my posts, but again, how does this actually work in practice? I have outlined all of the problems with this and they are quite daunting. I believe Apple could do it, but I just don’t have any faith that the developer community (that already neglects the iPad) would get on board.

Having powerful chips in the iPad also is great for people who actually like the iPad and use it for what it is. I know this forum skews towards the mac but there are at least some of us who prefer the iPad and the apps that are on it already.

 

[transpo1]

I know you’re ignoring my posts, but again, how does this actually work in practice? I have outlined all of the problems with this and they are quite daunting. I believe Apple could do it, but I just don’t have any faith that the developer community (that already neglects the iPad) would get on board.

Having powerful chips in the iPad also is great for people who actually like the iPad and use it for what it is. I know this forum skews towards the mac but there are at least some of us who prefer the iPad and the apps that are on it already.

I haven’t even seen your posts! I’m not a developer nor a software engineer, just an idea person who thinks it would be the coolest way for Apple to make use of the power they’ve imbued the iPad with. People will eventually want a touchscreen Mac and Apple will eventually need to solve this problem so why not now? Giving us a gimped version of macOS on the iPad Pros in keyboard mode that run full Mac apps would be a slick way of introducing a future new product line of touchscreen Macs. The more they blur the lines between products without sacrificing their margins the more successful Apple will be. They have to be willing to cannibalize themselves.

 

[bcortens]

I haven’t even seen your posts! I’m not a developer nor a software engineer, just an idea person who thinks it would be the coolest way for Apple to make use of the power they’ve imbued the iPad with. People will eventually want a touchscreen Mac and Apple will eventually need to solve this problem so why not now? Giving us a gimped version of macOS on the iPad Pros in keyboard mode that run full Mac apps would be a slick way of introducing a future new product line of touchscreen Macs. The more they blur the lines between products without sacrificing their margins the more successful Apple will be. They have to be willing to cannibalize themselves.

Apologies - I just assumed that you weren’t reading them since I was trying to outline the technical reasons why trying to have a dual macOS - iPadOS iPad would be very difficult to achieve.
I think the technical and user experience hurdles make this idea a non-starter.

I think the reason iPadOS still feels underpowered in some ways is because Apple isn’t willing to let go of the lockdown they have. If Apple brought macOS to iPadOS with all of the same software development restrictions iPadOS currently has to enforce its security model it will likely make little difference and none of the benefits of macOS would be realized.

For example: Xcode and Terminal both require multiple processes to be launched in order to work properly and that is not currently supported by the iPadOS security model. If Apple is willing to loosen the security model they could just as easily do it by loosening the iPadOS security model rather than going through the trouble of bringing macOS to the iPad.

I don’t know if I believe that it is a matter of being unwilling to cannibalize their own products, instead I think there are people inside Apple who think that the Mac’s more open platform model is the past and the closed down model is the future.

There are some rough UX edges that still exist within iPadOS but I don’t trust current Apple’s UX team (Alan Dye is bad at his job) to get it right on creating a great user experience.

 

[xmlninja]

In my opinion its just software limit due to board politics that hinders iPad or even iPhone to transform to macOS when connected with usb-c to monitor.

The hw performance is there.

Apple doesn’t want to go this route bc they want everyone to buy iPhone, iPad and MacBook.

 

[bcortens]

In my opinion its just software limit due to board politics that hinders iPad or even iPhone to transform to macOS when connected with usb-c to monitor.

The hw performance is there.

Apple doesn’t want to go this route bc they want everyone to buy iPhone, iPad and MacBook.

Read the thread. There Is more than politics at play here. I have outlined many software user experience reasons why this isn’t the case,

 

[xmlninja]

Read the thread. There Is more than politics at play here. I have outlined many software user experience reasons why this isn’t the case,

Switching between two os:es wouldn’t give good ux is an invalid point.

It would be one os and it would let you asapt the ui depending on what you are doing and what accessories you have connected

 

[transpo1]

There may be many technical hurdles as bcortens points out, but if any company can do it, it’s Apple. I don’t care if it’s a full version of macOS, I just want an option to run my needed macOS apps on iPad Pro when needed so I don’t have to lug around both devices.

 

[coffeemilktea]

I personally would love an Apple equivalent of the Microsoft Surface: a tablet running a full desktop OS that can genuinely run all the same software that my iMac can run.

I also don't believe Apple would ever actually make this product, since they make far more money selling both an iPad AND a regular Mac. But I can dream. 😭

 

[transpo1]

I personally would love an Apple equivalent of the Microsoft Surface: a tablet running a full desktop OS that can genuinely run all the same software that my iMac can run.

I also don't believe Apple would ever actually make this product, since they make far more money selling both an iPad AND a regular Mac. But I can dream. 😭

They’ll make it eventually but it will be EXPENSIVE AS #%& 😄

 

[AlastorKatriona]

iPadOS does not need a gamechanger. It needs to be left alone so that iPad can be iPad. I'm so tired of people trying to force it to be something else that they can't even properly describe, and Apple occasionally listening.

 

[aj_niner]

Mac OS X was a complete gamechanger. Perhaps Apple's most important product of all time. Mac OS 9 and earlier still resulted in what was, at the time, considered a perfectly functional computer. But it still had inherent limitations that ultimately weren't going away without a complete rethinking of the operating system down to the very kernel. Every Apple device uses some form of Mac OS X (it's not called "Mac OS X" anymore, but it's still largely the same beast under the hood).

At this point, in early 2024, Apple needs this kind of a complete rearchitecting of iPadOS.

I'd argue that iPadOS is perfect for devices like the iPad mini, where content consumption is still the main use case over content creation. It's also perfect for something like the suffix-less iPad, which almost discourages the use of an Apple Pencil and lacks support for high-end features that the iPad Air and iPad Pros have that make those devices better for content creation, let alone long-term productivity, let alone proper laptop replacement.

For the iPad Air and the iPad Pro, Apple needs to replace iPadOS, as it stands today, with something that, while still not being macOS, actually makes sense to run on those devices when used for the kinds of things they want users to be using higher-end iPads for. iPadOS on iPad Air and iPad Pro is very much akin to Mac OS 9 on the G3, G4, and G5 based PowerPC Macs of twenty years ago.

The iPad and iPad mini should embrace the idea of being what they were ten years ago; excellent content consumption and low-end productivity devices with a simple UI inspired by the iPhone. They were great at that 12 years ago; they're still great at it today!

The iPad Air and iPad Pro should actually try to compete with similar tablets in their size category by offering an OS that can actually (a) put those powerful M-series SoCs to work (on more than just Stage Manager and a subscription version of Final Cut Pro) and actually give people a reason to consider buying an iPad Air/Pro over a MacBook Air.

I have no idea what this would look like. I can say that multi-user support outside/beyond context of Apple Business Manager, Apple School Manager, managed Apple IDs, and really any other sort of managed environment ought to be a must. The ability to use some form of Xcode should be a must. The ability to use the Terminal should be a must. Maybe installation of Apps outside of the App store might not be something Apple has an appetite for; but certainly a revamped File System (give or take an actual Finder replacement) with better drive management (e.g. a Disk Utility app of some sort) should be on the table.

This mythical higher-end iPadOS doesn't need to be macOS, nor should it. This is still a touchscreen computer. But it ought to be powerful enough (especially on something like the larger iPad Pro) to at least be viable at replacing 90% of what a MacBook Air or Windows PC Ultrabook is capable of doing.

Don't you mean macOS release?

 

[transpo1]

iPadOS does not need a gamechanger. It needs to be left alone so that iPad can be iPad. I'm so tired of people trying to force it to be something else that they can't even properly describe, and Apple occasionally listening.

iPad Pros should be more pro machines. There’s room for a more powerful OS on iPads. Not everyone has to use it and the default iPadOS does not need to change.

 

[h.gilbert]

iOS is restrictive enough on a small phone, but iPadOS which is basically iOS is hilarious on such a big expensive device like an iPad Pro. Do people like that feeling of paying to be locked in?

 

[bcortens]

Switching between two os:es wouldn’t give good ux is an invalid point.

It would be one os and it would let you asapt the ui depending on what you are doing and what accessories you have connected

This is still a technical issue…. Adapting the UI is not just a switch Apple can flick.

Only a very tiny fraction of macOS apps use the same codebase for their macOS client, iPadOS client, and iPhoneOS client, this means that you’d be banking on huge amounts of developer buy in, which again, given how hard It is to get mobile devs to build iPad and Mac apps, I don’t think you’re going to get.

What would the transition phase look like? Maybe a few of Apple’s apps are ready to go right now which you could then use to transition on docking, but huge swaths are not.

An additional technical issue is that again the OS itself would have to be heavily reworked. To transition between iOS springboard and macOS desktop is not trivial as both have a variety of different system daemons and processes that are exclusive to each. The memory model is different, the file system model is different, etc…

The easiest way to do it would be to base it on macOS as that is the most permissive but then you have to deal with the fact that we know how much Apple detests opening up iOS.

If Apple were to bring something like this out I doubt they would want to enable the side-loading that basing the system on macOS would allow so they would likely lock it down to App Store only apps, Undermining the whole point of the exercise.

 

[bcortens]

iPad Pros should be more pro machines. There’s room for a more powerful OS on iPads. Not everyone has to use it and the default iPadOS does not need to change.

The fact that they don’t work for you doesn’t make them ‘not pro‘

At this point the problem is largely not the OS except in a few niche use cases like software and game development many other pro workflows are already possible on iPadOS.
The main problem facing iPadOS is that software vendors are not bringing full-featured versions of their apps to iPadOS. Adobe could bring more feature rich versions of their apps, they chose not to. Apple has made promising strides in bringing their pro apps to iPadOS (logic and Final Cut) and both continue to receive updates, hopefully Apple has an internal plan to bring them to feature parity.

Dual booting would suck for a variety of reasons

 

[RedWing512]

The iPad does not need a desktop-class OS a la macOS. What it really needs is better apps.

Some personal anecdotes -- I have a desktop PC that I have used for most of my content creation work. I recently bought an M1 MacBook Air to complement it, but that was after trying to use a 12.9" iPad Pro as a laptop replacement. It didn't really work, and the apps are to blame. For example, I have several Word documents that use third-party fonts. I have no problem installing said fonts to the iPad, and opening the Word documents that use them, but when I want to print the documents, the Microsoft Office apps fail to render the documents with the font. I've tried other office suites on the iPad, and they either don't support third-party fonts or have the same problems that Word had. The only workaround I have found is opening the documents in Pages and printing them from there.

I also previously used Proton Drive to securely sync my files, and the iOS apps for it are terrible, as well. When using an app that wants to autosave with each edit (like Microsoft Office), the app runs into syncing issues and corrupts my files.

There's several other examples that I have come across, all along the same lines. Very finicky apps or missing features. There's no reason why Office on iPad can't have the same features as Office on desktop. And you can say the same for many other iOS/iPad apps with desktop counterparts (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc). If devs would just make their apps more workflow-friendly, there would be no need for a desktop-class OS.

 

[HiVolt]

Serious question, is it about not owning two devices? Because I can’t see another reason someone who loves macOS would want to use it on an iPad in touch mode.

If you’re a digital artist the iPad already offers a plethora of fantastic apps (including many from Adobe) so what tangible benefit does macOS provide.

Why do you want to use the iPad touchscreen on a Mac? What workflows will this unlock?

It's about taking one device with you, but when the limitations of iPadOS rear their ugly head, you can boot into MacOS and use a full featured OS/Apps/File System/Networking - including apps that are not blessed by the mothership.

I never said about using the touchscreen on macOS. I said that it should require a keyboard/mouse/touchpad input.

However now that I thought about it, since macOS does support running iPad apps, perhaps the iPad only app could be allowed to use touch or pencil input.

 

[AlastorKatriona]

iPad Pros should be more pro machines. There’s room for a more powerful OS on iPads. Not everyone has to use it and the default iPadOS does not need to change.

False. It's an iPad.

 

[transpo1]

The fact that they don’t work for you doesn’t make them ‘not pro‘

At this point the problem is largely not the OS except in a few niche use cases like software and game development many other pro workflows are already possible on iPadOS.
The main problem facing iPadOS is that software vendors are not bringing full-featured versions of their apps to iPadOS. Adobe could bring more feature rich versions of their apps, they chose not to. Apple has made promising strides in bringing their pro apps to iPadOS (logic and Final Cut) and both continue to receive updates, hopefully Apple has an internal plan to bring them to feature parity.

Dual booting would suck for a variety of reasons

I never said they don’t work for me, they mostly do— whether it’s using Apple Pencil for note-taking, drawing, or using it for word-processing on the Magic Keyboard, the latter of which is where 80% of my time on the iPad is spent. However, that really becomes a pain because I would love to solely use the iPad except for those 1-2 apps that only can be run on a Mac. Then I need to lug around both devices, and in that case, the iPad inevitably gets left-behind and unused— it’s probably a MAJOR reason why sales of iPads have slumped somewhat. Macs with ASi chips have gotten better and better and if consumers are left to choose— the iPad is the device left home. (YMMV on this— if you’re a visual artist whose livehood is the Apple Pencil or don’t need certain Mac apps, the iPad is probably enough as is, but many of us have the need to run desktop class apps if the need arises; and in my experience, it usually does.)

 

[transpo1]

False. It's an iPad.

It wasn’t a binary question, but an opinion. You have heard of those, right? ;-)

 

[Infinitewisdom]

This is still a technical issue…. Adapting the UI is not just a switch Apple can flick.

Only a very tiny fraction of macOS apps use the same codebase for their macOS client, iPadOS client, and iPhoneOS client, this means that you’d be banking on huge amounts of developer buy in, which again, given how hard It is to get mobile devs to build iPad and Mac apps, I don’t think you’re going to get.

What would the transition phase look like? Maybe a few of Apple’s apps are ready to go right now which you could then use to transition on docking, but huge swaths are not.

An additional technical issue is that again the OS itself would have to be heavily reworked. To transition between iOS springboard and macOS desktop is not trivial as both have a variety of different system daemons and processes that are exclusive to each. The memory model is different, the file system model is different, etc…

The easiest way to do it would be to base it on macOS as that is the most permissive but then you have to deal with the fact that we know how much Apple detests opening up iOS.

If Apple were to bring something like this out I doubt they would want to enable the side-loading that basing the system on macOS would allow so they would likely lock it down to App Store only apps, Undermining the whole point of the exercise.

Finally, someone who speaks on the topic and actually knows what they're talking about.

I think. But what you said sounds good!

 

[GCat]

Finally, someone who speaks on the topic and actually knows what they're talking about.

I think. But what you said sounds good!

I fully agree!

 

[AlastorKatriona]

It wasn’t a binary question, but an opinion. You have heard of those, right? ;-)

Yeah I know but these "opinions" have been destroying iPad. iPad is not this ultimate, inevitable form factor that takes over all computing. It's a device with no specific role or purpose that is nice for a handful of a things, and it's fine for it to stay that way. It's a full blown computing device for people with light needs, and its an accessory device for everyone else. That's fine too. I'm tired of people trying to exaggerate its role (with no clear vision on how, btw) and ending up worse than it was before. Stage Manager is an abject failure of design, and I thought Apple was completely nuts to implement it until I realized they were using iPad as a test bed for what would be the primary UI for vision Pro. At least they had a reason.

Leave my iPad alone. Leave it alone!