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Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,883
8,054
The problem is most third-party iPad apps continue to store their files in their own internal sandbox. You can import from and export to the Files app, but working files are stored in the sandbox and therefore not accessible from Files, only from within the app.

[snip]

That's not anything Apple can fix, that's on the app developer to use the tools they've been given.
Couldn't Apple do something like refuse to accept app updates and/or remove them from the App Store unless they are modified to make use of the Files file system? I believe they've done similar things before to force devs to implement this or that change.
 

kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,824
2,193
Couldn't Apple do something like refuse to accept app updates and/or remove them from the App Store unless they are modified to make use of the Files file system? I believe they've done similar things before to force devs to implement this or that change.
Well, the problem with that is the needs of different apps. To use some apps on my phone, it probably doesn’t make much sense for Drafts to use the system file picker. Instead, its lightweight sidebar makes sense for its “quickly capture text and perform actions on it” model. Whereas GoodNotes almost certainly should be using the system file picker but isn’t, instead it uses a custom file picker that doesn’t let you navigate the file system and is limited to its sandbox in iCloud. You can create subdirectories of the sandbox directory, but that’s it. The problem with forcing apps to use the system file picker is that, while GoodNotes would finally be using the picker it should be, it would force apps that don’t need it to also use it. Not to mention the impact on apps like GoodReader that part of their whole reason for being is to be a quasi file system (less need for them these days, but GoodReader still has features that are useful today, like its memory optimized PDF viewer [for viewing large PDFs] or file encryption). Maybe developers could get an override permission, but that would be a lot of work for small developers. The current system is suboptimal, but a market based approach, like the current system, is the only one that doesn’t step on any toes. It’s on users to ask (and only spend money on) apps that use the system file picker, I think.
 
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bradman83

macrumors 65816
Oct 29, 2020
1,288
3,266
Buffalo, NY
How many people have iPad Pros with those stupid heavy keyboards attached to them and would love to have a powerful OS?

Apple is the one calling a device that can't even run a full version of Word "Pro" - not me. I get that Pro is a marketing term for them with no meaning, but if they want the iPad to be Pro, it needs a grown-up OS.

It needs a desktop caliber OS to have those apps. Chicken and egg problem. Developers aren't going to write an app for iPadOS when it will always be better on the Mac or Windows anyway.
What would Apple need to do to iPadOS to allow Microsoft to make Word more fully featured?

If Adobe can make a version of Lightroom for iPad that offers 95% of what desktop Lightroom CC offers then why can't Microsoft? What's holding them back?
 
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Siliconguy

macrumors 6502
Jan 1, 2022
425
620
So let me ask you, can you explain to me what can you do on a day to day basis with MacOS Finder that you cannot do with iPadOS Files
You can do it with iPadOS files, I've done it. But it is ever so much easier to open server folders on the desktop and move files where they need to go on a Mac. And none of these places they need to go involve iCloud.
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,643
4,469
I'll say it again, because I think most people missed it — the iPad doesn't need a desktop-caliber OS. It just needs better apps. So many apps on iPad are unnecessarily gimped, and that's the real reason why people have such a hard time getting work done on an iPad.
I agree that the main issue is not the OS but the apps.
Problem is Apple can't force other companies to develop for iPad or make full version of their software for iPad. E.g. Microsoft will never make a full Office version. They made it for Windows on Arm, but won't do it for iPadOS. And there are many other examples.

That's why some folks ask for MacOS to be an option on iPad pro (either as dual boot as as a virtual machine) or maybe even the air, since it runs M-series chips (not MacOS instead of iPadOS)
 
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Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,643
4,469
The problem is most third-party iPad apps continue to store their files in their own internal sandbox. You can import from and export to the Files app, but working files are stored in the sandbox and therefore not accessible from Files, only from within the app.

Apple's own first party apps like Pages, Numbers, and Keynote do this properly; when you open them they bring up the equivalent of an Open/Save dialog from Files and you can save the files wherever you want. Microsoft Office has gotten slightly better at this but still uses a custom interface. But if I want to open a file from Photoshop, ProCreate, Affinity, or any similar app I have to use the in-app interface and whatever organizational tools I'm given.

That's not anything Apple can fix, that's on the app developer to use the tools they've been given.
Honestly even some first party apps don't use files, such as Books, that can't save a damn PDF to files and needs some convoluted workaround like airdropping to another device then airdropping back to the original iPad.... 🤯
 

Siliconguy

macrumors 6502
Jan 1, 2022
425
620
How exactly would you suggest Apple interleave windows from iPadOS and macOS?
You have one mail app, one Safari app, one Music, etc. So the common programs are no problem. If you are looking at the Cornell bird call program, if I open that it should open in a window sized as the iPad app does, or maybe start at phone sized. (I do not have an iPhone, so I don't know what it looks like there. The phones don't all have the same resolution (do they?) so the app must have some capability to size appropriately. So the app is just another window, possibly with a fixed maximum size. Sort of like the widgets they brought back.

Since iPads do not have phone capability the security concern to protect the phone function from malicious interference isn't really there. The screens are big enough that the cramming you need to do on the phones doesn't matter. It should be just MacOS with touchscreen input mode and keyboard input mode. The pen should work in both.

Looking at my iPad (not a Pro, and no cellular) I don't have that many iPad only apps. The birdcall program, (Merlin Bird ID), PlantNet (Take picture of plant, get ID once back to wi-fi range), Freeform, that's about it.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,883
8,054
Honestly even some first party apps don't use files, such as Books, that can't save a damn PDF to files and needs some convoluted workaround like airdropping to another device then airdropping back to the original iPad.... 🤯
Does Books app allow you to create / edit PDFs? If not, why would you want to save a PDF from Books to Files?
 

brofkand

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2006
1,958
5,370
What would Apple need to do to iPadOS to allow Microsoft to make Word more fully featured?

If Adobe can make a version of Lightroom for iPad that offers 95% of what desktop Lightroom CC offers then why can't Microsoft? What's holding them back?

Lightroom CC was created for the iPad because the iPad can't run the version of Lightroom that working pros actually use.
 

samanuel

macrumors newbie
Aug 4, 2012
29
7
Forgive me if this is a stupid question but would it be impossible to keep ipad’s os but add the needed coding so that all the programs that run only on mac os would work there too? For example UA Apollo audio interfaces, Luna DAW, NI Komplete etc. Keyboard with trackpad could be required for these apps and plug ins to work so that 3rd party companies don’t have to completely change everything. Since the ipad pro uses same M chips as macs, perhaps it wouldn’t be impossible? Also this way the main os and the way we interact with the ipad wouldn’t have to change at all.
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,643
4,469
Forgive me if this is a stupid question but would it be impossible to keep ipad’s os but add the needed coding so that all the programs that run only on mac os would work there too? For example UA Apollo audio interfaces, Luna DAW, NI Komplete etc. Keyboard with trackpad could be required for these apps and plug ins to work so that 3rd party companies don’t have to completely change everything. Since the ipad pro uses same M chips as macs, perhaps it wouldn’t be impossible? Also this way the main os and the way we interact with the ipad wouldn’t have to change at all.
that's not how it works, you cannot "add code" to the OS so that apps from another OS, especially a desktop one, can just run natively, without some kind of virtual machine (even things like Windows on Mac, Android or Linux on Windows require some sort of virtual machine). You can make the virtual machine look native, like Parallels does with coherence mode, but it's still a virtual machine (= some version of MacOS running in the background...)
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,883
8,054
Forgive me if this is a stupid question but would it be impossible to keep ipad’s os but add the needed coding so that all the programs that run only on mac os would work there too? For example UA Apollo audio interfaces, Luna DAW, NI Komplete etc. Keyboard with trackpad could be required for these apps and plug ins to work so that 3rd party companies don’t have to completely change everything. Since the ipad pro uses same M chips as macs, perhaps it wouldn’t be impossible? Also this way the main os and the way we interact with the ipad wouldn’t have to change at all.
These issues have already been discussed in this thread. I admit I don't quite understand all the details myself, but you should at least try and read through the posts first.
 

oneMadRssn

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
6,087
14,194
Here is ONE major reason why… the iPad Air/Pro is more versatile than a MBA in regards to hardware (imo), I can transform my iPad Pro into a laptop (or desktop)… the MBA cannot be used as a tablet.
There have been many times I've thought "dang I wish this iPad was a laptop." But I have never wished for my Macbook to be a tablet.
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,883
8,054
that's not how it works, you cannot "add code" to the OS so that apps from another OS, especially a desktop one, can just run natively, without some kind of virtual machine (even things like Windows on Mac, Android or Linux on Windows require some sort of virtual machine). You can make the virtual machine look native, like Parallels does with coherence mode, but it's still a virtual machine (= some version of MacOS running in the background...)
And how difficult would it be to build such a virtual MacOS for iPad? We keep hearing how powerful the latest M series chips are. Wouldn't it be possible, at some point, for iPads with M chips to run MacOS in virtual mode?
 

Night Spring

macrumors G5
Jul 17, 2008
14,883
8,054
There have been many times I've thought "dang I wish this iPad was a laptop." But I have never wished for my Macbook to be a tablet.
Before the iPad came out, I constantly wished I could remove the keyboard from my laptops. It's not that I wanted the laptop to be a tablet, per se, just that the keyboard was in the way when I wanted to just read. And while it's true that I sometimes think, "Oh, this would be faster/easier if I had a keyboard," while using my iPad, it's not that I want it to be a laptop -- I just want a device that fits the task at hand, I'm not thinking I want a laptop or a tablet.
 

Flabasha

macrumors 6502
Dec 21, 2011
357
441
You can do it with iPadOS files, I've done it. But it is ever so much easier to open server folders on the desktop and move files where they need to go on a Mac. And none of these places they need to go involve iCloud.
Absolutely. IPadOS literally drove me to the Android/PC ecosystem. I still use my MacBook Pro as my main system, but after 30 years of only Apple tablets/computers, I bought a Galaxy Tab Ultra three years ago, and haven’t looked back. My iPad Pro is literally sitting on my exercise bike to be a content screen… and it’s been out of battery charge for months. 😂

And all because of the disastrously awful iPadOS, and the inability to easily move files around in my art workflow. Occasionally I check back here to see if Apple is doing anything with the iPadPro… and I see they’re adding OLED, which I’ve had on my Galaxy Tab for the past three years.

Oh well.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,991
34,250
Seattle WA
Absolutely. IPadOS literally drove me to the Android/PC ecosystem. I still use my MacBook Pro as my main system, but after 30 years of only Apple tablets/computers, I bought a Galaxy Tab Ultra three years ago, and haven’t looked back. My iPad Pro is literally sitting on my exercise bike to be a content screen… and it’s been out of battery charge for months. 😂

And all because of the disastrously awful iPadOS, and the inability to easily move files around in my art workflow. Occasionally I check back here to see if Apple is doing anything with the iPadPro… and I see they’re adding OLED, which I’ve had on my Galaxy Tab for the past three years.

Oh well.

I went the opposite way - dropped my six Android tablets for the iPad Pro and never looked back.
 

LeMo

macrumors member
Sep 8, 2020
91
117
In 2019 I looked - for quite a while - at taking an iPad Pro with keyboard as my main daily computer. Pricing a decent configuration up, it came in roughly twice the price of what I eventually bought (Surface Pro 7).

I did buy an Air4 afterwards as I needed a replacement for a Mini3. That Air4 (screen) suffered a drop and is now replaced with an Air5. Which I use a lot but is not my daily driver.

So I have a Surface Pro 7 (4 years old) connected to a 27" screen that gets used all the time (hooking into a work VM). I have an M1 MBA that is my mobile companion for when I travel and the Air5 with keyboard is used a heck of a lot.

Considering what I looked at then and what I see now, the iPad does sit somewhere in the middle and if you have a varied workload, it is absolutely spot on. Yes, the 20% might not like it but the 80% lap it up.

As you can see from my devices, I actually don't buy the latest-and-greatest but I do look for a price/performance that is good. Evolution of iPadOS is OK, revolution may not be. Maybe Stage Manager is part of that journey (I hate it on macOS, love it on the iPad).....
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,643
4,469
And how difficult would it be to build such a virtual MacOS for iPad? We keep hearing how powerful the latest M series chips are. Wouldn't it be possible, at some point, for iPads with M chips to run MacOS in virtual mode?
Not difficult at all for Apple, but why on earth would they do that. They have more to lose than to gain from it.
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,643
4,469
Before the iPad came out, I constantly wished I could remove the keyboard from my laptops. It's not that I wanted the laptop to be a tablet, per se, just that the keyboard was in the way when I wanted to just read. And while it's true that I sometimes think, "Oh, this would be faster/easier if I had a keyboard," while using my iPad, it's not that I want it to be a laptop -- I just want a device that fits the task at hand, I'm not thinking I want a laptop or a tablet.
that's whats detachables do in the Windows world, I rarely use them as tablets but I do remove the keyboard sometimes
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,643
4,469
I went the opposite way - dropped my six Android tablets for the iPad Pro and never looked back.
And I went a third way, using both equally.... In the past I was iPad mainly (I had Android tablets but used them very little), especially since the pro iPad in 2015.
The reason is that iPads used to be much superior hardware-wise (better speakers, much faster processor, many more high end apps, more choice of screen sizes). The only better quality was the screen.
Today that gap has shrunk a lot. Speakers have become as good or better than iPad pro. Processor are so fast that it doesn't matter. There are many high end apps (except for music) to the point that I have apps that I use a lot that are not present on iPad. And I have even more screern sizes (except for the mini size).
So I use both daily, each for what they excell at.
 
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