I returned the last Android tab I bought - Galaxy Tab S9+. The screen reflectivity drove me nuts, accentuated by the beautiful OLED blacks. Can't remember when I last used the six others I still have somewhere.
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All iPads iPadOS Really Needs Its "Mac OS X" Release
- Thread starter Yebubbleman
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I returned the last Android tab I bought - Galaxy Tab S9+. The screen reflectivity drove me nuts, accentuated by the beautiful OLED blacks. Can't remember when I last used the six others I still have somewhere.
I used to be extremely bothered with reflectivity. Now I just use a light theme and the issue is only for dark scenes in movies if I watch in a brighly lit environnement
iPad needs a few things. First is, better window management.. Stage manager is cool, but it’s not right. I find my self fighting with it more than I enjoy using it. Bring the maximize screen and minimize etc buttons to the windows.. Clicking the 3 dots etc is just more steps.
A better way to find files..
and lastly, more login accounts for families.
A better way to find files..
and lastly, more login accounts for families.
I'll preface my responses to the below by reiterating that I don't want a touch-screen Mac. I want my money's worth out of the M1, M2, and presumably - in the not too distant future - M3 in an iPad. Otherwise, barring things that make it easier for me to do more precise drawing on, why am I buying a higher-end iPad?
With fewer ports and many of the same hinderances that iOS has, I'd argue that the iPad is less flexible. Then again, your definition of flexible is entirely based on form factor.
Not at all! I don't want a 2-in-1 Mac! macOS was never designed for touch input. iPadOS was designed first and foremost for touch input. iPadOS is just a larger iOS. That's all it is right now. And, again, for the base iPad and the iPad mini, that's absolutely fine! But, for the M1 and M2 iPads, we ought to be getting more than just a larger iOS. Stage Manager is a joke. Virtual memory is a good start, but it's only a start. And yay, I get Final Cut Pro on my iPad? The bar of entry for these things is too high for them to just be mere consumption devices and that's all the platform currently offers.
I never said that they made no improvements. I said that they haven't made enough improvements.
Again, I don't want a touch screen Mac. I want an iPad Air/Pro that can stand toe-to-toe to a MacBook Air in terms of features. Right now, what you describe falls short of that. And considering there's the same M-series chips in the iPad Pros (let alone versions with the full GPU core count) that are being underutilized with iPadOS, that
You're misunderstanding me. The 2021 and 2022 iPad Pros and the 2022 iPad Air are all powerhouses. And yet, other than Final Cut Pro, the dumpster fire that is Stage Manager, and virtual memory support, there's nothing to warrant my buying anything anywhere near that high end of an iPad outside of heavy Procreate usage.
When is that ever not the focus of ANY of Apple's GUI's?
The only purposes that the iPad seems perfectly suited toward (across the board) is media consumption. You have a couple of art use cases wherein the combination of iPad Pro and Procreate makes indispensable sense. But past that and media consumption is the only use case that seems to make sense.
So, what is to justify my buying an iPad Air or an iPad Pro if I'm spending several hundreds of dollars more and ending up with...what? Better displays? Better speakers? Why even give me that M1 or M2 processor at all? And if I'm not getting anything out of that processor (and only getting marginal improvements anywhere else), what's to justify my buying a current model instead of a 2020 or 2018 Pro (or a 4th Generation Air for that matter)?
Apple positions all of their devices as personal devices. I have no clue what your point is. Even still, every OS of theirs is built on top of UNIX which is, at its core, a multi-user operating system.
I want an M-series iPad offering to be equally featured to their M-series MacBook Air equivalents. Doesn't seem like a tall ask, considering the processors are plenty powerful.
Run scripts? Modify .plists? Y'know, have some control over my OS and installed apps??? Is that really such an out there thing to want in computing platform?
It's not an issue for a $400-700 iPad. It should be for an iPad rivaling the cost of an actual Mac containing the same computing innards.
We are! And people like you are responding by asserting that no one needs them!
Not talking about a touch screen Mac. Just a more advanced OS running on an M-series SoC equipped iPad than the current iPadOS release!
With fewer ports and many of the same hinderances that iOS has, I'd argue that the iPad is less flexible. Then again, your definition of flexible is entirely based on form factor.
Not at all! I don't want a 2-in-1 Mac! macOS was never designed for touch input. iPadOS was designed first and foremost for touch input. iPadOS is just a larger iOS. That's all it is right now. And, again, for the base iPad and the iPad mini, that's absolutely fine! But, for the M1 and M2 iPads, we ought to be getting more than just a larger iOS. Stage Manager is a joke. Virtual memory is a good start, but it's only a start. And yay, I get Final Cut Pro on my iPad? The bar of entry for these things is too high for them to just be mere consumption devices and that's all the platform currently offers.
I never said that they made no improvements. I said that they haven't made enough improvements.
Again, I don't want a touch screen Mac. I want an iPad Air/Pro that can stand toe-to-toe to a MacBook Air in terms of features. Right now, what you describe falls short of that. And considering there's the same M-series chips in the iPad Pros (let alone versions with the full GPU core count) that are being underutilized with iPadOS, that
You're misunderstanding me. The 2021 and 2022 iPad Pros and the 2022 iPad Air are all powerhouses. And yet, other than Final Cut Pro, the dumpster fire that is Stage Manager, and virtual memory support, there's nothing to warrant my buying anything anywhere near that high end of an iPad outside of heavy Procreate usage.
When is that ever not the focus of ANY of Apple's GUI's?
The only purposes that the iPad seems perfectly suited toward (across the board) is media consumption. You have a couple of art use cases wherein the combination of iPad Pro and Procreate makes indispensable sense. But past that and media consumption is the only use case that seems to make sense.
So, what is to justify my buying an iPad Air or an iPad Pro if I'm spending several hundreds of dollars more and ending up with...what? Better displays? Better speakers? Why even give me that M1 or M2 processor at all? And if I'm not getting anything out of that processor (and only getting marginal improvements anywhere else), what's to justify my buying a current model instead of a 2020 or 2018 Pro (or a 4th Generation Air for that matter)?
Apple positions all of their devices as personal devices. I have no clue what your point is. Even still, every OS of theirs is built on top of UNIX which is, at its core, a multi-user operating system.
I want an M-series iPad offering to be equally featured to their M-series MacBook Air equivalents. Doesn't seem like a tall ask, considering the processors are plenty powerful.
Run scripts? Modify .plists? Y'know, have some control over my OS and installed apps??? Is that really such an out there thing to want in computing platform?
It's not an issue for a $400-700 iPad. It should be for an iPad rivaling the cost of an actual Mac containing the same computing innards.
We are! And people like you are responding by asserting that no one needs them!
Not talking about a touch screen Mac. Just a more advanced OS running on an M-series SoC equipped iPad than the current iPadOS release!
I beg to differ. I find my 12.9 Pro to be better for 4K video editing with Lumafusion than my higher-end laptop with anything else. I also use it extensively for RAW image processing when on the road.
You are buying a high-end iPad for external display support; virtual memory swap and I believe faster transfer speeds.
But most folks buy it for the speakers, more storage and better display.
Tbf, I think Stage Manager is a better experience on an external display when using a M1 iPad... given a potential larger screen. Judging by your signature... I don't think you have experienced it in that fashion and maybe that's why you come to that conclusion.
Fair enough... let's go what you stated in your original post.
- multi-user support (I have a Mac... I can count on 1 hand when someone needed to use it other than me)
- X-code (there is playgrounds... now I'd admit it's not Xcode, but it's a start)
- Terminal (let's be honest here, the amount of mac users... give me a percentage of them that actually use it)
- file management system (I don't use files app... i agree it's limited, I use FileBrowser Professional instead)
- disk utility app (yeah, I don't think something like that will ever come to the iPad)
A minority of MacRumors users wants to obliterate the iPad by turning it into as close to a MacOS equivalent as possible, let alone the general public.
Nobody wants this. Leave the iPad alone.
Nobody wants this. Leave the iPad alone.
“Apple positions all of their devices as personal devices. I have no clue what your point is. Even still, every OS of theirs is built on top of UNIX which is, at its core, a multi-user operating system.”
My point is that a Mac allows multiple users to have their own environment, whereas the iPad does not.
As I said, the iPad is sold as a personal device, whereas the Mac is sold as a multi user device.
I should not need to explain this.
“I want an M-series iPad offering to be equally featured to their M-series MacBook Air equivalents. Doesn't seem like a tall ask, considering the processors are plenty powerful. “
This is not an answer to my question. Please reread my question. The OP was asking for Xcode on the iPad and I asked if he needs tools to develop MacOS apps on an iPad, or for an iPadOS development platform. Your answer if far too generic. For an iPad to be “equally featured to a MBA” it would need to be an MBA and run MacOS. It isn’t and it doesn’t.
“Run scripts? Modify .plists? Y'know, have some control over my OS and installed apps??? Is that really such an out there thing to want in computing platform?”
Please reread my question. None of these things are done with the MacOS Finder, which was my question.
“It's not an issue for a $400-700 iPad. It should be for an iPad rivaling the cost of an actual Mac containing the same computing innards.”
Please reread my question. I was asking how is Files stopping you from performing your day to day activities on the iPad. Your reply does not answer my question.
“We are! And people like you are responding by asserting that no one needs them!”
When and where did I say that nobody needs them? I didn’t. On the contrary, I acknowledged that they are useful tools. Please don’t make up stuff.
Your comments are so far off that I probably shouldn’t have engaged at all, but… here you go.
You might not want to judge by one's signature, friend. It's not like I don't go to my nearby Apple Store to play with all of these things when they come out. I just don't BUY all of them.
First off, those are examples of things that can be brought to iPadOS to make it more useful. Those aren't everything on my wishlist. And I'm pretty sure I said upfront that I don't know what iPadOS's Mac OS X moment would look like. Just that iPadOS, as it stands today, is best at content consumption, which only works for the lower-end half of the iPad lineup as a good value proposition.
Then we have no disagreement.
First off, you "take issue" with me calling for "Mac" features? You will really let someone on the Internet post his own opinion and you'll take issue with it? I thought I needed a life!
Secondly, you have features from iOS, macOS, and iPadOS all being passed around. And now you have visionOS added into that mix. Why do you take such issue with some Mac features being ported to iPad to make iPad more useful? I'm not saying I want a touchscreen Mac. I'm saying that Apple is already trying to go beyond the whole "it's just a consumption device" marketing pitch with higher-end iPads and iPadOS isn't allowing for them to adequately do so.
Melodramatic much? I want there to be a point to the iPad Air and iPad Pro (a) costing way more money and (b) having such a beastly chip only a fraction of the power of which gets used. I don't see what the harm of that is. In the meantime, go buy a 10th Generation iPad or 6th Generation iPad mini and troll some other thread.
My apologies... if you think of it in a literal sense. It was more so I disagreed with your stance.First off, you "take issue" with me calling for "Mac" features? You will really let someone on the Internet post his own opinion and you'll take issue with it? I thought I needed a life!
And we simply going to have to agree to disagree and move on. Because you think the higher-end iPad is not sufficient enough whereas I purchased one and I plan on buying the OLED iPP when it's released.
The terminal is not GUI, it is prompt based.
Window management in MacOS is not suitble for a range of application and tasks away from the desk. There are so many situation that needs a computer "assistant" that iPad fulfils. You cannot do much with a mouse in many situation as it has pixels precision which is counter productive. In these situations you need an easy, "quick" UI. In these cases the documents are never the main product . Consider student learning, curing a patient, inspecting a building or flight planning. For these, 16 Gb memory should be more than enough even if you need to switch between apps. Complicated (macOS) is counter productive.
I misunderstood you by purpose because too many misuse the "iPadOS is not powerful enough to take advantage of Mx". You correct list apps as the limiting factor and to that I agree as is virtual memory support but with 16Gb it gets nearly theoretical. I guess with M3, we might see 24 Gb. No one has explained in detail why iPadOS cannot support advanced or compute hungry apps. The issue seems to be marketing.
Are floating windows so efficient? I find full screen apps and four finger swipe to be far easier to work with. Floating windows requires lots on micromanagement to setup and at least I do not work that way. Floating windows in a teaching situation is horrible.
What is so bad with too much compute at hand? The device will only have longer life time and I cannot see that as problematic. It would be more expensive to use a special down graded Mx for iPad that using the corresponding Mac Mx.
I’m not trolling, repeated polls here have shown that not even the more knowledgeable userbase here wants to rethink iPadOS into some kind of MacOS equivalent. If Macrumors users don’t want this, collectively, the general public doesn’t either. Once you start changing the whole OS to look and function more like a Mac, there’s no iPad anymore.
Interesting, I could (and do) use the same argument: go buy a Mac, why destroy the iPad like that?
If we had a situation in which not only practically the entirety of Macrumors wanted this, but also the general public, then even if I disagreed I may be able to agree on some kind of compromise - after all, people want this - but this isn’t the case.
The point of those iPads is that they have more and better features. It’s okay if you don’t see the value in those, you don’t have to.
But don’t obliterate the iPad due to the wishes of an extreme minority who should buy a Mac instead. I repeat: people who want that are... a Macrumors minority! (i.e., more people want the iPad to stay with iPadOS rather than rethink everything. The general public’s acceptance rate of something like that would be negligible. I repeat, nobody wants this).
First off, I never said that the higher-end iPad was "insufficient". I said that iPadOS is only so powerful of an operating system and that, for those higher-end iPads, something more powerful should come about. Not sure what about that is so egregious of a stance to have...
Not the post I'm trying to make. Please stop generalizing. It doesn't help and it only wastes time.
This is a loaded claim with absolutely nothing to back it up.
I never, at ANY point, said that I wanted iPadOS to function more like a Mac. I want features that the Mac has, yes. For how powerful the current iPad Pros and iPad Airs are, there is no reason to NOT have a more powerful operating system driving it. But that's pretty much where the similarities between iPadOS's would-be 'Mac OS X' moment and any actual version of macOS end.
Your extremist stance that adding more power and capability to iPadOS would (a) necessitate making it more Mac-like and (b) destroy the iPad goes so far away from the original point of the post that I can't really take it at all seriously.
Please provide me sources to back this up. Right now, you're making claims with absolutely no data to support them and it's not serving any purpose whatsoever.
Rude much?
First off, re-read the original post. I'm not talking about obliterating the iPad at all. I'm not even talking about changing the iPad nor the iPad mini. I'm talking about giving the more advanced iPads features worthy of their extra power, features, and, most importantly, their price tag. I'm not talking about making an iPad into a Mac. I'm talking about giving the iPad features that there's no decent reason for them not to have already, especially given the price tag and power under the hood. Go troll elsewhere, please and thank you.
SOURCES PLEASE.
SOURCES PLEASE.
Also, there are news articles galore about how no one is buying iPads right now. Although based on how adamant you are about your perception of reality, I'm guessing you're not paying any of those any heed whatsoever.
Also, there are news articles galore about how no one is buying iPads right now. Although based on how adamant you are about your perception of reality, I'm guessing you're not paying any of those any heed whatsoever.
Given that there were no new releases last year, that's not a surprise. I'd wait a few months for the new releases to get out before saying people don't want iPads anymore.
Seriously, it's so armchair expert for people to make weird claims about macOS like behavior destroying the iPad.First off, I never said that the higher-end iPad was "insufficient". I said that iPadOS is only so powerful of an operating system and that, for those higher-end iPads, something more powerful should come about. Not sure what about that is so egregious of a stance to have...
Not the post I'm trying to make. Please stop generalizing. It doesn't help and it only wastes time.
This is a loaded claim with absolutely nothing to back it up.
I never, at ANY point, said that I wanted iPadOS to function more like a Mac. I want features that the Mac has, yes. For how powerful the current iPad Pros and iPad Airs are, there is no reason to NOT have a more powerful operating system driving it. But that's pretty much where the similarities between iPadOS's would-be 'Mac OS X' moment and any actual version of macOS end.
Your extremist stance that adding more power and capability to iPadOS would (a) necessitate making it more Mac-like and (b) destroy the iPad goes so far away from the original point of the post that I can't really take it at all seriously.
Please provide me sources to back this up. Right now, you're making claims with absolutely no data to support them and it's not serving any purpose whatsoever.
Rude much?
First off, re-read the original post. I'm not talking about obliterating the iPad at all. I'm not even talking about changing the iPad nor the iPad mini. I'm talking about giving the more advanced iPads features worthy of their extra power, features, and, most importantly, their price tag. I'm not talking about making an iPad into a Mac. I'm talking about giving the iPad features that there's no decent reason for them not to have already, especially given the price tag and power under the hood. Go troll elsewhere, please and thank you.
SOURCES PLEASE.
SOURCES PLEASE.
Also, there are news articles galore about how no one is buying iPads right now. Although based on how adamant you are about your perception of reality, I'm guessing you're not paying any of those any heed whatsoever.
Just make macOS an app on the iPad like a VMWare or VirtualBox. That's mostly it, minus some small details. What does anyone who prefers iPadOS lose by having this exist?
You can already mostly achieve this with VNC solutions. Having it run locally would probably be fine but I doubt Apple will give up the control that comes from locking VMs out of iPad OS
Looked at this and thought "yeah yeah another MacRumors user complaining about not having Mac OS on the iPad, what else is new?" But I do actually get where you're coming from here, in terms of the big release, and I honestly think Apple is working toward it. I don't think people on here will be satisfied until iPad OS has *every single feature* that Mac OS does, but the fact is that with features like stage manager and support for external displays, iPad OS has made a *lot* of progress, and all that's really needed now is better support for desktop-standard apps and a more centralised file system. I think that will come around iPad OS 20, which would be a nice round number like 10 was for Mac OS X. Although I don't think they'll call it iPad OS XX
On a similar note, I think Apple's entire OS ecosystem is due a rebrand, possibly also around the time of iOS/iPad OS 20. IMO calling them all [device name]OS just isn't cutting it, and in some cases it just sounds ugly. Say what you will about Android and Windows, they're their own brands, they're one word that people remember, and they roll off the tongue. I think Apple should come up with a name that's snappy and memorable, and fits their brand well, and incorporate it into their entire software lineup. I'm not saying that Watches and Macs have to have the same OS, but if you gave them the same name then it would be more memorable. On top of that, make all the other OSs skip to version 20, and maybe with every new release give it some fancy name, like Mac OS has done with big cats and California landmarks. They could even copy Android and give it an alphabetical naming scheme.
On a similar note, I think Apple's entire OS ecosystem is due a rebrand, possibly also around the time of iOS/iPad OS 20. IMO calling them all [device name]OS just isn't cutting it, and in some cases it just sounds ugly. Say what you will about Android and Windows, they're their own brands, they're one word that people remember, and they roll off the tongue. I think Apple should come up with a name that's snappy and memorable, and fits their brand well, and incorporate it into their entire software lineup. I'm not saying that Watches and Macs have to have the same OS, but if you gave them the same name then it would be more memorable. On top of that, make all the other OSs skip to version 20, and maybe with every new release give it some fancy name, like Mac OS has done with big cats and California landmarks. They could even copy Android and give it an alphabetical naming scheme.
VNC, Virtual machines...I think 99.9% of the iPad users and a fair fraction of Mac users don´t know or need to know what this is. When experts and enthusiast discuss, we often go to edge cases and thereby misses the point of a simple to use device.
I think that is my biggest issue with all these discussion. We discuss topics that are important for 0.1% of the user base. Ok for Mac discussions but the intent of the iPad is to meet the demands of the 99.9%.
To be honest, I am not even sure that I care about having an iPad that does MacOS anymore. I went and started using my Surface Pro 9 and realized that I really just want a portable laptop that I can take notes and sketch on. The SP9 does that perfectly.
Now it absolutely sucks as a tablet....but my usage is like 98% on a desk as a secondary computer.
There are even benefits. I don't get commercials while using a browser and a streaming service (in this case it was Peacock, I have to try the rest and see!!!), but the apps of course don't allow ad blockers.
Now it absolutely sucks as a tablet....but my usage is like 98% on a desk as a secondary computer.
There are even benefits. I don't get commercials while using a browser and a streaming service (in this case it was Peacock, I have to try the rest and see!!!), but the apps of course don't allow ad blockers.
I moved to this early on for work. Took over as organizer for iPad. It’s just easier to use when it integrates with what I use for work.
It is a tablet with more friction than an iPad. But is fine for my uses.
My main use for an iPad is specific apps and games I like not easily done or at all on a surface pro. Totally entertainment only. Nonessential. There’s that word again. Not much Apple does is essential for me but I still end up finding a reason to buy.
It’s a never ending cycle… unfortunately. Until the iPad has some sort of macOS mode, then it will constantly receive criticism.
I use my iPad daily, enjoy it for what it is… I think external display support with Stage Manager is game changing. I like using Photoshop or some Affinity Suite app to edit images or photos (using the Apple Pencil). And when I go do some projects with my drone… I take my iPad to view footages.
Do I want to see some improvements? Absolutely. But I rather discuss topics that show use cases or the positive side of using an iPad… yet we don’t get those kind of exchanges. And when we do… there’s someone that will enter the discussion to share their criticism of the iPad.
I recall seeing some topic showcasing an individual use case with the iPad… but it doesn’t get the same traction as discussion like this, we are at over 200 comments. And as long as a user take the angle of iPadOS is pathetic or trash, iPad is a toy, or nothing but a consumption device.
Then it keeps the cycle going.
The funny aspect of this is that it makes you think that the people who want MacOS are a MacRumors majority, and they’re an extreme minority (that is extremely vocal about it).
Oh we are aware. We know it's probably not going to happen. We just don't have to like it.
Yeah this. MacOS on an iPad will never happen because that would mean the iPad ceases to be a tablet. You can in theory give iPad OS Mac-level capabilities, but changing the OS would require changing the UX to one that just wouldn't work with a device with a touchscreen as the primary input.
just as a reminder, other than maybe a couple of crazy people, those who want MacOS do not want it to replace iPadOS but want it as dual boot or virtual machine...