All iPads iPadOS Really Needs Its "Mac OS X" Release

[prospervic]

I want something that allows me to take notes, mark up PDFs, consume media, read ebooks. But I also want something that can run an entire adult OS with real file explorer/finder, window management, and full APIs available for developers.

Using the term”adult OS” implies that iPadOS is a “child OS” and is quite condescending. I know of many “adults” - real estate agents, lawyers, Notaries, shop owners, content creators, musicians, photographers — who use iPad as their main, if only device for their business. It'd be really great if tech people would realize they are not the only ones who are “professionals”.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Like I said, I doubt Apple would offer a choice. They’d likely screw iPadOS up in such a way that the base iPad users would... have no iPad anymore.

No thanks. Buy a Mac.

I think a trillion dollar company can walk and chew bubble gum as they say. It will be okay. They won't do it anyway, so it's a moot point. They want us to buy two devices. They are cowards.

 

[bcortens]

I think that a lot of people complaining are in a category that blurs the line between 1 and 2, or does not fit well either.
This is the category that I call "I want to bring only one device with me" or even "I want to have only one device other than my phone". And get a Mac is not an acceptable answer.

As that can mean:
I want the convenience of a tablet without a keyboard, the possibility to draw or takes handwritten notes, I want the convenience cellular, but at the same time the ability to use the desktop apps I need, generally for work.
That's where having just a Mac or just an iPad, even one with a better OS does not work and will never work, as those desktop apps are never coming to the iPad, some aren't even coming to the Mac, but on Mac you can use Parallels to run them resonably well.

These people need to bring a Mac and an iPad or get something like a surface pro, the only type of device that can do it all (but with all the X86 drawbacks, which might disappear with the new X Elite chips, but that's assuming these people are ok with Windows instead of MacOS)

If people want something like VMware on the iPad I suppose I could get behind that. Running the Mac as a VM alongside any other VMs would be a good solution as most people would never buy a VM and thus it doesn't have too much risk of disincentivizing native development and it is nerdy enough that anyone using it would likely know that they need a mouse and keyboard for it to work.

The thing is, we already mostly have this. I can already use a variety of VNC solutions to get into my Mac or a windows device. I mean, yeah I still have to own the Mac but otherwise I can still just bring one device.

People in the second category are people who do not need desktop apps and are only bothered by the app centric and cloud centric nature of the OS (and similar phone-like OS caracteristics)

I would argue the second category does want desktop quality apps. There is a difference between a desktop app and a desktop quality app. It is fully possible to bring feature complete Apps to iPad, the fact that developers don't is not the problem of the software.

 

[FeliApple]

I think a trillion dollar company can walk and chew bubble gum as they say. It will be okay. They won't do it anyway, so it's a moot point. They want us to buy two devices. They are cowards.

They probably can, but they probably wouldn’t. And yeah, from an economic perspective, it doesn’t make sense either.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Using the term”adult OS” implies that iPadOS is a “child OS” and is quite condescending. I know many “adults” - real estate agents, lawyers, Notaries, shop owners, content creators, musicians, photographers — who use iPad as their main, if only device for their business. It’s time for tech people to realize that they are not only ones who are “professionals”.

Got it, what term should I use? It simply can't do certain things. It doesn't allow side loading, it is limited in key ways, is if it knows what's best for us? So locked down? Fascist? I thought the opposite of all that being an "Adult OS" was a good way to put it.

 

[Digitalguy]

The weird mob is the vast majority of iPad users...

the vast majority of uses doesn't buy an iPad pro...

 

[Digitalguy]

Apple likely wouldn’t allow choice. I doubt this would be the case, if it were up to the extreme minority, they’d just shoehorn MacOS, and iPad users be damned instead of... well... just buying a Mac.

Assumptions, assumptions....

 

[eltoslightfoot]

If people want something like VMware on the iPad I suppose I could get behind that. Running the Mac as a VM alongside any other VMs would be a good solution as most people would never buy a VM and thus it doesn't have too much risk of disincentivizing native development and it is nerdy enough that anyone using it would likely know that they need a mouse and keyboard for it to work.

The thing is, we already mostly have this. I can already use a variety of VNC solutions to get into my Mac or a windows device. I mean, yeah I still have to own the Mac but otherwise I can still just bring one device.


I would argue the second category does want desktop quality apps. There is a difference between a desktop app and a desktop quality app. It is fully possible to bring feature complete Apps to iPad, the fact that developers don't is not the problem of the software.

Actually it is, the APIs are functionally different--especially when taking file and directory access. See Obsidian.MD for instance.

 

[bcortens]

This is a real annoyance, one that is less so with larger storage capacity iPads, which make it less necessary for iPadOS to be updating files to the cloud. To totally prevent this, I copy files over to Local Storage and work on them there.

I've actually do this too, I found I just couldn't work on some large files without wanting to throw the iPad against the wall.

As for the file system, it’s really frustrating that I don’t have access to my music files the way I do on Mac. Why shouldn’t I be able to change the metadata on my music tracks?

I think there are a few third party Apps but none of the ones I've found have good sync options.

Even so, I prefer iPad to run its simple and lightweight OS. I don’t mind reaching for my MacBook to do the heavyweight, crunchy stuff.

I Love my iPad and only use my Mac for the software development part of my work.

 

[bcortens]

Actually it is, the APIs are functionally different--especially when taking file and directory access. See Obsidian.MD for instance.

You're right about some of the APIs, I suppose I was thinking of user facing features, most of the user facing limitations I find on iPad are just devs not bothering to build better Apps.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Like I said, I doubt Apple would offer a choice. They’d likely screw iPadOS up in such a way that the base iPad users would... have no iPad anymore.

No thanks. Buy a Mac.

And I said they would absolutely offer a choice.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

You're right about some of the APIs, I suppose I was thinking of user facing features, most of the user facing limitations I find on iPad are just devs not bothering to build better Apps.

We should keep in mind that there is probably a reason that so many developers are in this boat. Maybe it isn't as easy as we think.

 

[bcortens]

We should keep in mind that there is probably a reason that so many developers are in this boat. Maybe it isn't as easy as we think.

I also think that the way Apple runs the App Store makes it hard to charge the same money for an iPad app as for a Mac App. There is a similar race to free problem (though a little less sever) as on the iPhone.

Edit: Lack of upgrade pricing also hurts the App market on iPad.

 

[Digitalguy]

If people want something like VMware on the iPad I suppose I could get behind that. Running the Mac as a VM alongside any other VMs would be a good solution as most people would never buy a VM and thus it doesn't have too much risk of disincentivizing native development and it is nerdy enough that anyone using it would likely know that they need a mouse and keyboard for it to work.

The thing is, we already mostly have this. I can already use a variety of VNC solutions to get into my Mac or a windows device. I mean, yeah I still have to own the Mac but otherwise I can still just bring one device.

I don't think you can equate remote desktop to having a VM with MacOS or Windows.
And it's not because you need to own a Mac or Windows PC.
It's because you depend on your connection (wifi and cellular).
My iPad pro used to be my on the go device with Jump Desktop.
I stopped doing this and moved to a cellular Windows laptop because several times there was no cellular signal or it was so bad that I just wasted my time when I had work to do... At least on Windows I can do work offline.

I would argue the second category does want desktop quality apps. There is a difference between a desktop app and a desktop quality app. It is fully possible to bring feature complete Apps to iPad, the fact that developers don't is not the problem of the software.

That's exactly what I said. It's not a matter of improving the OS. It's a matter of software companies porting their desktop apps to iPad with similar features and quality. That's not happening except for some exceptions.
And there is nothing Apple can do about it other than making it as simple as possible to do the transition, which they already do, or not taking 30%, which they will not do, unless forced. And even then I doubt many software companies would bother

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I don't think you can equate remote desktop to having a VM with MacOS or Windows.
And it's not because you need to own a Mac or Windows PC.
It's because you depends on your connection (wifi and cellular).
My iPad pro used to be my on the go device with Jump Desktop.
I stopped doing this and moved to a cellular Windows laptop because several times there was no cellular signal or it was so bad that I just wasted my time when I had work to do...

That's exactly what I said. It's not a matter of improving the OS. It's a matter of software companies porting their desktop apps to iPad with similar features and quality. That's not happing except for some exceptions.
And there is nothing Apple can do about it other than making it as simple as possible to do the transition, which they already do, or not taking 30%, which they will not do, unless forced. And even then I doubt many software companies would bother

Except, again, they have the iPadOS way more locked down from an API perspective. Read more about it from Lit and Lattte (the makers of Scrivener) and Obsidian.MD. The APIs are not the same between MacOS and iPadOS.

 

[bcortens]

I don't think you can equate remote desktop to having a VM with MacOS or Windows.
And it's not because you need to own a Mac or Windows PC.
It's because you depends on your connection (wifi and cellular).
My iPad pro used to be my on the go device with Jump Desktop.
I stopped doing this and moved to a cellular Windows laptop because several times there was no cellular signal or it was so bad that I just wasted my time when I had work to do...

I did say “mostly” have this. I am aware of the limitations of remote connections, I’m just saying that in many cases we do have this. I didn’t bring my mac the last time I travelled because I had it configured to remote into and I knew I would have good internet.

That's exactly what I said. It's not a matter of improving the OS. It's a matter of software companies porting their desktop apps to iPad with similar features and quality. That's not happing except for some exceptions.
And there is nothing Apple can do about it other than making it as simple as possible to do the transition, which they already do, or not taking 30%, which they will not do, unless forced. And even then I doubt many software companies would bother

I think allowing upgrade pricing would help As well. I use Affinity Designer on my iPad and it sucks that they can’t just offer me an upgrade price (though I suspect with the canva purchase they will be moving to subscriptions soon, which is sad), Omnigraffle is yet another App that I wish could be offered with an upgrade price to get to new versions.

 

[Digitalguy]

I did say “mostly” have this. I am aware of the limitations of remote connections, I’m just saying that in many cases we do have this. I didn’t bring my mac the last time I travelled because I had it configured to remote into and I knew I would have good internet.

I think allowing upgrade pricing would help As well. I use Affinity Designer on my iPad and it sucks that they can’t just offer me an upgrade price (though I suspect with the canva purchase they will be moving to subscriptions soon, which is sad), Omnigraffle is yet another App that I wish could be offered with an upgrade price to get to new versions.

I do agree with both... unfortunately that 20% of situations where internet is not good or not available is what made me give up iPad as an on the go device. And the time it happens and you cannot do your work, you say, never again.

I agree on the second point but this will work only for apps already present on iPad.
For my work I need some Windows only softwares, the makers of these software haven't even bothered making a Mac version... So I need to pay Parallels to run on Mac. They would never make an iPad version regardless.
And I guess for many people it's the same, it's those 2-3 apps that are not and will never be on iPad that prevent them to have it as their only device, even on the go.

 

[Ludatyk]

I think allowing upgrade pricing would help As well. I use Affinity Designer on my iPad and it sucks that they can’t just offer me an upgrade price (though I suspect with the canva purchase they will be moving to subscriptions soon, which is sad), Omnigraffle is yet another App that I wish could be offered with an upgrade price to get to new versions.

I use Affinity Designer and Photo… I know there’s chatter about them moving to subscription with Canva acquiring them.

Sometimes, devs try to empathize with those who hate the subscription model offering an alternative option to buy a lifetime subscription, but then that price is ridiculous.

I do agree with both... unfortunately that 20% of situations where internet is not good or not available is what made me give up iPad as an on the go device. And the time it happens and you cannot do your work, you say, never again.

I think this is irrelevant, because in this day and age… if your internet is not good or unavailable… getting work done would be difficult regardless of having to rely on an iPad for remote sessions.

Because in most cases… employers have a server where employees have to access private data. Or having to exchange group messages among employees (through Slack or Teams). Heck, trying to contact folks via email.

 

[bcortens]

I do agree with both... unfortunately that 20% of situations where internet is not good or not available is what made me give up iPad as an on the go device. And the time it happens and you cannot do your work, you say, never again.

I agree on the second point but this will work only for apps already present on iPad.
For my work I need some Windows only softwares, the makers of these software haven't even bothered making a Mac version... So I need to pay Parallels to run on Mac. They would never make an iPad version regardless.
And I guess for many people it's the same, it's those 2-3 apps that are not and will never be on iPad that prevent them to have it as their only device, even on the go.

I think that allowing VMs on the iPad would be a good solution. As I said before, it’s a technical enough solution that it wouldn’t impact regular iPad users and wouldn’t have as many of the drawbacks of dual booting or hot swapping macOS and iPadOS.

 

[Digitalguy]

I think this is irrelevant, because in this day and age… if your internet is not good or unavailable… getting work done would be difficult regardless of having to rely on an iPad for remote sessions.

Because in most cases… employers have a server where employees have to access private data. Or having to exchange group messages among employees (through Slack or Teams). Heck, trying to contact folks via email.

I don't agree. I can work locally in my software for hours and I can update my files too. Then I only need internet for Dropbox to update everything in the background or to upload or send by email any work I have done...
On the iPad I can hardly do anything without the internet as my software is Windows only...

 

[Digitalguy]

I think that allowing VMs on the iPad would be a good solution. As I said before, it’s a technical enough solution that it wouldn’t impact regular iPad users and wouldn’t have as many of the drawbacks of dual booting or hot swapping macOS and iPadOS.

I do agree. I have have been a proponent of MacOS as a VM, but the disadvantage of it vs dual boot is that 8GB is probably not enough for both iPadOS and MacOS so I doubt that would be offered on 8GB devices (it would be a poor experience) and 16GB iPads are too niche.
What's more as a VM it would probably be unable to run another VM like Windows via Parallels contrary to full MacOS.
Regardless, it makes no financial sense for Apple as they are better off with people buying 2 devices instead of 1.
Maybe with a $2000 iPad ultra with 16GB RAM starting SKU or better yet a foldable iPad Mac hybrid starting at $2500-3000... then offering the option could make sense for Apple to push sales.

 

[prospervic]

What about the file actions you mentioned is a "heavyweight, crunchy stuff?" See that's what I mean. No one is talking about using this theoretical device to solve large data structures or look for new medicines. We are talking about reading email, simple photoshop, basic stuff one would use a Macbook Air for. I don't see any of that as "heavyweight, crunchy stuff" anyway.

I wasn't including those file actions in the "heavyweight, crunchy stuff." I'm talking about things like creating and editing websites. For example, Wix works well on Mac, but lousily on iPad mainly because, despite Apple's claiming iPadOS's Safari is "desktop class," working with design elements falls apart there. Or photo editing - apps like Pixelmator Pro offer far more flexibility and options on Mac (as does iPhoto).
The Files app has vastly improved from the toy box that was the original iCloud Drive but it's still limited and less easy to manipulate than Finder on the Mac.

But we have to remember that Apple is aiming iPad at the vast majority of its customers who are not power users and are not interested in all that "computer-y stuff". More advanced users could (or should) see the iPad as an adjunct device for touching-up "real work" or sketching out creating projects on the go, as well as lightweight productivity and entertainment.
The final group are the iPad-only diehard enthusiasts who are proud of their ability to workaround iPadOS's limitations and are decidedly against any intrusion by macOS.

 

[prospervic]

I think a trillion dollar company can walk and chew bubble gum as they say. It will be okay. They won't do it anyway, so it's a moot point. They want us to buy two devices. They are cowards.

So if you owned a company that was successfully selling two product lines you would combine them into one and thereby halve your revenue?

Not cowards, wise business people.

 

[bcortens]

So if you owned a company that was successfully selling two product lines you would combine them into one and thereby halve your revenue?

Not cowards, wise business people.

This gets back to some of us having a problem with modern Apple. Modern Apple is profit first product second. Apple used to seem to put products first and then expect that profit would follow.

I think they are no longer willing to eat their own lunch. I think if they came up with an iPhone under Tim Cook they wouldn’t have made it as easy to stop buying iPods as well. They would have hobbled storage more than they did or engaged in some other limitation to try and encourage people to buy two devices.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

So if you owned a company that was successfully selling two product lines you would combine them into one and thereby halve your revenue?

Not cowards, wise business people.

Not if they price it high enough. Look at the Samsung Fold line. Make an iPad Ultra 12.9" with MacOS/iPadOS. It comes with appropriate new magic keyboard for $2000 and no one would complain.