Other iPhone 14 with 3.5 mm headphone jack and advanced support for high-impedance headphones

[Andrew73875]

It would be a good business decision for Apple to add a 3.5 mm headphone jack with advanced support for high-impedance headphones (like on new MacBooks) to the new iPhone.

1) Apple would make their product line cleaner by allowing to use the same set of headphones with MacBooks and iPhones.

2) Headphone jack will allow to listen to Apple Music lossless (Bluetooth is not capable of transmitting lossless). Therefore, helping to win a market share for Apple Music.

3) It would be possible to listen to music while charging your iPhone.


What are your thoughts?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

You're probably going to get overwhelming rejection of this concept because the crowd thinks Apple won't go (back) there in spite of investing real time on improving the jack in the new MBpros AND rolling out a version of streaming music that can't fit into the bandwidth of "the future" (bluetooth) option.

But there IS an Apple-made (presumably high quality DAC) inside every iPhone so that it can work as a phone. If it had a headphone jack connected to it, #2 and #3 are fully resolved (again) and the user convenience in #1 should not be overlooked.

Furthermore, it would be a return to thoroughly ubiquitous "just works" instead of relatively niche (computing tech (almost) only). You don't need to (worry about) charge those kinds of headphones. Airlines will give you a set of that kind if you need some for the flight and your buds are dead/lost. Etc.

Those who believe bluetooth and/or dongles are the better way would be unaffected. They can keep using iPhone as they do.

Those who argue against it for fear of water damage seem to overlook the BIGGER hole nearby (lightning jack) and the many small holes (speaker) as if water only wants to sneak in through the one kind of jack.

And- IMOO (in my ongoing opinion) dongles are STUPID! Yes, I could grasp the value of pro-quality dongles for those that need that, but I'm referring to the "how to make it work" dongles picked up by the masses to buy back a feature that used to come included. For example the $10 retail ones branded by Apple almost certainly do NOT have a better DAC in them than the one built inside iPhone/iPad.

However, all that said, it must be hugely profitable to sell set after set of AirPods instead of those interested being able to use various kinds of wired buds/phones that have sometimes held up for a decade or longer. And regardless of how the voting would go here and by all consumers, profit rules decision making in modern Apple above all else.

Personal Note: I picked up iPad Mini 6 recently and the ONE flaw to what I think is a FANTASTIC upgrade is that they removed the headphone jack. So even if one wants to make an argument of the available space inside of iPhone- which has at least some plausibility given the size- I can't imagine any such argument fitting iPad Mini or larger. And yet the jack is gone.

 

[Andeddu]

I am supportive of bringing back the headphone jack but it’s not a subject worth discussing as Apple are not going to backtrack after all these years. They are in the business of selling expensive wireless earphones and are happy to promote it by removing phone functionality.

 

[Andrew73875]

Well, they are listening to feedback and change their mind all the time. They changed butterfly keyboards back to scissors switch, removed Touch Bar, brought back MagSafe, removed 3D Touch on iPhone and Apple Watch. Even when Steve Jobs was a CEO they returned buttons to iPod shuffle after removing them.

Headphone jack is not threatening their AirPods sales either as these are just different market segments. People who are using wireless headphones are not going to buy wired headphones all of a sudden. They probably use them during workouts or commutes.

On the other hand, people who want to buy fancy headphones and listen to lossless music will be happy using headphone jack.

It will just offer more options to more people and Apple will be able to sell even more headphones. Win-win.

 

[CrazyForCashews]

It's dead bro, give it a rest.

 

[Andrew73875]

I would, but they invested so much time and money in a headphone jack for the new MacBook Pro. Doesn't look dead to me.

Use high-impedance headphones with your Mac - Apple Support

You can connect high-impedance headphones directly to compatible Mac computers introduced in 2021 or later.

support.apple.com

 

[Janichsan]

It would be a good business decision for Apple to add a 3.5 mm headphone jack with advanced support for high-impedance headphones (like on new MacBooks) to the new iPhone.

1) Apple would make their product line cleaner by allowing to use the same set of headphones with MacBooks and iPhones.

2) Headphone jack will allow to listen to Apple Music lossless (Bluetooth is not capable of transmitting lossless). Therefore, helping to win a market share for Apple Music.

3) It would be possible to listen to music while charging your iPhone.


What are your thoughts?

I agree with everything you said, but Apple won't do that.

That would be admitting they were wrong and they wouldn't be able to push their AirPods to iPhone users.

 

[Andrew73875]

You mean like here

There's nothing wrong with that. In the end, they just sell what customers want.

 

[Spock]

I would, bro. But they invested so much time and money in a headphone jack for the new MacBook Pro. Doesn't look dead to me.

Use high-impedance headphones with your Mac - Apple Support

You can connect high-impedance headphones directly to compatible Mac computers introduced in 2021 or later.

support.apple.com

You can't compare the ports they added back to the MacBook Pro to the iPhone. Apple never added the headphones jack back to the MacBook Pro because they never took it away and it wasn't taking space like it does in the iPhone. The headphone jack is not coming back to the iPhone. It's gone, Android phones are even starting to take it away. Let it go.

 

[PeteBurgh]

I think the iPhone 14 is about as likely to feature a headphone jack as it a Blackberry-style keyboard and a dot matrix printer.

The backtracking on adding more ports to the MacBook Pro is welcome, but I don't see that reasoning extending to the phone. The obsession with 'thin-and-light' for something as specialised as the MBPs was a mistake, but for phones being as thin, light and waterproof as possible really does matter. Every gram and every millimetre counts, and like it or not eliminating ports is part of that.

I feel bad for those still at the denial/anger Stages of Grief regarding the headphone jack and I understand that Dongletown is a bad place to live for those with niches needs and preferences, but I can't say I miss it at all. AirPods are terrific, and on occasions when I've had to go back to wired headphones, it has been a 'I can't believe I put up with this nonsense for so long' experience.

 

[cateye]

I would, but they invested so much time and money in a headphone jack for the new MacBook Pro. Doesn't look dead to me.

Use high-impedance headphones with your Mac - Apple Support

You can connect high-impedance headphones directly to compatible Mac computers introduced in 2021 or later.

support.apple.com

They didn't invest squat. that port, and the ICs that power it, are likely off the shelf parts available for pennies at bulk. Apple runs a highly visible, high margin wireless headphone business. They are going to punch that money box as hard as possible for as long as possible. Put another way, tens of millions of iPhones are sold each quarter, and I'm sure Apple would like to make sure each one of those phones walks out the door with a pair of spendy wireless headphones as an upsell. You think a pair of AirPods 2 cost $129 to make? I bet the margin on those is approaching 80%. pure profit.

Apple is not some hobbiest technology company, interested in the edges of the bell curve. They exist to make money. Massive amounts of it. Anything else is purely secondary. The Mac, 10 percent of Apple's balance sheet and falling, is never going to influence the iPhone.

 

[Andrew73875]

Completely agree with the fact that AirPods are good for certain use cases (I use them when exercising).

The point is that Apple Music offers lossless quality music. The only way to enjoy lossless music is via 3.5 mm headphone jack. Bluetooth technology is not capable of delivering it. So, a logical next step is to incorporate a 3.5 mm headphone jack into the next iPhone. And probably update apple AirPods pro with an optional 3.5 mm cable.

This in turn, will allow to increase Apple Music subscriptions and its market share. Because customers right now are not able to appreciate the sound quality offered by this service.

About lossless audio in Apple Music - Apple Support

Learn about lossless audio in Apple Music and how to turn it on or off for your device.

support.apple.com

 

[arfbsantoso]

Completely agree with the fact that AirPods are good for certain use cases (I use them when exercising).

The point is that Apple Music offers lossless quality music. The only way to enjoy lossless music is via 3.5 mm headphone jack. Bluetooth technology is not capable of delivering it. So, a logical next step is to incorporate a 3.5 mm headphone jack into the next iPhone. And probably update apple AirPods pro with an optional 3.5 mm cable.

This in turn, will allow to increase Apple Music subscriptions and its market share. Because customers right now are not able to appreciate the sound quality offered by this service.

About lossless audio in Apple Music - Apple Support

Learn about lossless audio in Apple Music and how to turn it on or off for your device.

support.apple.com

View attachment 1959366

100% agreed.

 

[KaliYoni]

It would be a good business decision for Apple to add a 3.5 mm headphone jack with advanced support for high-impedance headphones (like on new MacBooks) to the new iPhone.

While I would love headphone jacks to be added back to iOS devices, I don't think it would be a good or bad business decision for Apple.

Why? First, it is clear that removing the port has had little or no impact on iPhone and iPad sales. Second, the market penetration for iPhones and iPads is at or near its peak. Adding the port isn't going to drive much new user adoption. Further, now that Apple has trained users to not expect a built-in way to connect wired headphones–or even to receive headphones/earbuds with a new phone!–a headphone jack won't push many people to immediately upgrade their hardware. Finally, and most importantly, Apple's annual revenue is in the hundreds of billions. That means it takes a lot to move the needle on any of its financials. Apple needs to sell millions of something to get even a 1% increase in revenues.

So I'd say headphone jacks would be a good design and usability decision but a neutral business decision.

 

[cateye]

This in turn, will allow to increase Apple Music subscriptions and its market share. Because customers right now are not able to appreciate the sound quality offered by this service.

It's not a bad theory, but the reality is: Do you think most people care (or can even tell the difference) in subtle sound quality differences? Apple was smart to push not just lossless audio, but spatial. Lossless has onerous bandwidth and processing requirements—spatial audio does not. Spatial audio can be a menace sonically if you're not prepared for it or if it's not mixed intelligently, but it has a "wow" factor that many may find pleasing, in the same way the punchy colors of HDR photos seem more "real," even when it's not. Compared to 256kbps AAC streaming, which is already super competent, lossless is subtle as hell, even if you have the focus and training to understand how it's different.

If I grant you the stretch that most people care about audio quality to that extent, are they going to abandon the convenience of effortless wireless buds, like AirPods, to get it? I think you're asking a lot of the middle-of-the-road type of consumer that is Apple's primary target.

This is the frustration of being an Apple user: When your needs are modest, the ecosystem is a beautiful place to be. It takes care of you and you forget that it's technology at all. The moment you outgrow it, in whatever manner that may be, Apple makes it clear they're not interested in serving you. So you're stuck in the push-pull of recognizing the elegance and simplicity of what Apple offers, but wanting for more. More control, more flexibility, more options.

 

[Andrew73875]

Yes, the difference with 256kbps is subtle, but once you hear lossless you don't want to go back.

I think you're asking a lot of the middle-of-the-road type of consumer that is Apple's primary target.

I don't completely agree with this. In my understanding Apple is marketing itself as a company for creative type of people: movie makers, musicians, photographers, writers etc. Both professional and amateur ones. Basically every Apple ad ever made is showing us how an iPhone (and iPad) is used for shooting and editing movies, making music etc. And I didn't even mention the famous "think different" campaign.

That's why they have GarageBand on both iPhone and Mac. Also every famous musician ever seems to be using an iPhone anyways.

I'm sure musicians and movie makers will appreciate a higher quality audio on their iPhone right out of the box. The only ones who will not be happy about the headphone jack are companies selling external DACs for iPhones.

In the end of the day, new iPhones have 2 or 3 cameras (depending on the model) with different lenses on it. I don't think they are tailored to "what an average customer wants". Apple is just putting the best cameras possible. The same should go for the sound quality.

So I'd say headphone jacks would be a good design and usability decision but a neutral business decision.

Customers will also appreciate a better music quality. It will incentivize them to buy Apple's AirPods Pro and other Apple headphones to get a fully immersive experience.

The only major streaming services providing lossless today are Apple Music and Tidal. But Tidal is way more expensive than Apple Music. Therefore, Apple has a very good competitive advantage.

Imagine if an iPhone had the ability to make video calls but didn't have a front facing camera. You would have to buy an external one for that. We have a similar situation here: software is ready but hardware is not. And all incentives are there.

 

[PeteBurgh]

Do you think most people care (or can even tell the difference) in subtle sound quality differences?…Compared to 256kbps AAC streaming, which is already super competent, lossless is subtle as hell, even if you have the focus and training to understand how it's different.

If I grant you the stretch that most people care about audio quality to that extent, are they going to abandon the convenience of effortless wireless buds, like AirPods, to get it? I think you're asking a lot of the middle-of-the-road type of consumer that is Apple's primary target.

Absolutely 100% this.

I know there are people who care about lossless audio, DACs, and all there rest - good for them, I have geeky hobbies too! But for every audiophile/enthusiast, there are dozens if not hundreds of people out there who are perfectly happy with ‘good enough’. (And Apple’s version of ’good enough’ is pretty darn good). Even amongst that enthusiast group, only some will feel the need for wired headphones on the go with their phone. Do you really need that subtle extra difference on the bus, at the gym, in the office, etc? Some will swear they do, but many others will be content to compromise.

So in short, I think the people that want this are a pretty small subset of a pretty small subset. As someone else said - it’s the edge of bell curve. Accommodate audiophiles and audio professionals on a chunky MacBook Pro that costs $2-6k? Sure! Compromise the design of Apple’s most important product where space is of the essence? Nope nope nope.

 

[jaytv111]

It would be a good business decision for Apple to add a 3.5 mm headphone jack with advanced support for high-impedance headphones (like on new MacBooks) to the new iPhone.

Seems at best to be a neutral business decision. Hardly anyone would buy a new iPhone who didn't have an iPhone before. How many people do you think left the iPhone for Android in 2016, and how many of those would return? I doubt it would be many.

1) Apple would make their product line cleaner by allowing to use the same set of headphones with MacBooks and iPhones.

By this metric it's already cleaner to have just Bluetooth since the Apple Watch and Apple TV (machines that never had headphone jacks built in) also work with Airpods and Bluetooth headphones as well as with Macbooks and iPhones.

2) Headphone jack will allow to listen to Apple Music lossless (Bluetooth is not capable of transmitting lossless). Therefore, helping to win a market share for Apple Music.

They're rumored to be coming up with ways around Bluetooth limitations to deliver lossless audio to headphones (well their headphones at least). My theory is they will use wifi direct and send portions of audio files in bursts, essentially preloading the audio file, but I don't know if this can really be done with minimal battery impact. Regardless I don't think this by itself is enough incentive to bring back the headphone jack.

They literally can tell you to use the headphone jack adapter if you want lossless. It's a CD-quality DAC, same as iPhones that had the headphone jack. There literally was no difference between the adapter and the headphone jack in quality, so if it's important to you use the adapter and call it a day! And if you hate adapters then I can't help but think you should also hate the cord.

3) It would be possible to listen to music while charging your iPhone.

And here we go again with the listen to music while charging. You can use an adapter with charging and headphone jack for that. You can use wireless headphones while charging. You can use wireless charging while using wired headphones! How bout just get the Magsafe charger and the headphone adapter? Looks to me it's 100% possible to listen to music while charging your iPhone.

And even if it's so inconvenient to do any of that then why didn't you leave the iPhone over 5 years ago already?

Imagine if an iPhone had ability to make video calls but didn't have a front facing camera. You would have to buy an external one for that. We have a similar situation here: software is ready but hardware is not. And all incentives are there.

This analogy breaks down when you realize most people can't tell the difference lossless makes against high quality wireless headphones. Or that most people are listening to headphones on the go nowadays and don't want wires tangling up the place. Sure a small percent of people do want their wires. That's fine, they can use the adapter. If they don't like the adapter then too bad! But ultimately it's just not enough people to care about.

It'd be more like a front facing camera that's normal size versus a giant one that has hardly any difference in quality to average people but it makes the phone larger, with larger uglier bezels.

 

[Andrew73875]

It'd be more like a front facing camera that's normal size versus a giant one that has hardly any difference in quality to average people but it makes the phone larger, with larger uglier bezels.

Well, we already have 3 cameras on the back making a big bump. Same argument applies here. Hardly anyone will notice the difference between iPhone SE 2020 camera and iPhone 12 in good lighting conditions. But here we are. Headphone jack is not going to make a big difference in size anyway.

They literally can tell you to use the headphone jack adapter if you want lossless. It's a CD-quality DAC, same as iPhones that had the headphone jack

It's very difficult to find a good DAC, good ones cost a lot, it's bulky. Just google any DAC on amazon and you will realise how many people are actually using their wired headphones with an iPhone.

subtle extra difference on the bus, at the gym, in the office, etc?

No one is saying that Apple should ditch Bluetooth headphones. As I mentioned before, wireless headphones are perfect for gym, commuting etc.

However these are not the only use cases for an iPhone. Some people like to use their fancy headphones with an iPhone. Musicians would like to listen to music using their iPhone. Software is ready but the hardware is not.

It's obvious that Apple will implement a headphone jack in upcoming releases. Otherwise they wouldn't even bother with adding lossless to iOS.

 

[jaytv111]

Well, we already have 3 cameras on the back making a big bump. Same argument applies here. Hardly anyone will notice the difference between iPhone SE 2020 camera and iPhone 12 in good light conditions. But here we are. Headphone jack is not going to make a big difference in size anyway.

View attachment 1959470

The difference is in the lenses more than the sensor. But the point is the analogy kind of breaks down, I think we can tell the difference between no FF camera at all and a FF camera. Can the average person tell the difference in audio quality (between AAC high quality and CD quality)? And what if they come up with lossless (CD quality) over wireless anyway? Sure you'll say that will require Apple branded headphones, that's fine. But if you care that much you can wire up through the Lightning jack anyway.

It's very difficult to find a good DAC, good ones cost a lot, it's bulky. Just google any DAC on amazon and you will realise how many people are actually using their wired headphones with an iPhone.

Honestly I feel like the goal should be CD quality and that's it. No need for higher resolution, people just can't hear the difference. That said, CD quality isn't possible over Bluetooth but it could be in the future. If someone wants to go all-out with 192 khz sampling then they can afford the DAC to do it (well inconveniently also need the Lightning to USB-A to do it). But for average people CD quality would be great and maybe it happens in the future Airpods or you just get the Apple headphone jack adapter, on sale at Walmarts and many other places and it's cheap enough.

By the way, if you really really like lossless at the highest resolution and want to know how to do it with any iPhone (well ones with Lightning at least), you should check out Jonathan Morrison on Youtube, he has a video from months ago when lossless launched on Apple Music. He uses a high res DAC and USB-A Lightning adapter. Looks like it works to me, heck you can charge too with a Magsafe charger! OK so you want this DAC built into the iPhone itself, problem is that isn't a priority to Apple, wireless audio is.

However these are not the only use cases for an iPhone. Some people like to use their fancy headphones with an iPhone. Musicians would like to listen to music using their iPhone. Software is ready but the hardware is not. It's obvious that Apple will implement a headphone jack in upcoming releases.

Well that's an interesting claim. I am basically 100% sure they will not have the headphone jack on newly released iPhones. If anything I see the Airpods line gaining lossless wirelessly.

 

[Reggaenald]

I agree with everything you said, but Apple won't do that.

That would be admitting they were wrong and they wouldn't be able to push their AirPods to iPhone users.

They admitted of being wrong with the new MacBook Pros like we wouldn’t believe it until it happened.

 

[PeteBurgh]

The thing is, Apple makes so many iPhones. So many! Like 200-250 million a year.

There are any number of niches out there, some tiny, some fairy substantial. Some people would like an early 2010s style swappable battery, some others might like a proper rugged droppable iPhone, others still (me me me!) would like a USB-C port for moving ProRes video quickly, or to be able to add external storage with an SD card. And so on. And there are those, like OP, would like to go back to mid 2010s wired headphones.

These are all perfectly reasonable niches and I understand why people might want them.

But when you're talking about a product that sells almost a quarter of a billion units a year, you're not interested in small or even medium sized niches, however vocal and passionate. Chasing those just ends up like Homer Simpson designing the Canyonero.

You become the world's first trillion dollar company (and then first $2t, then first $3t, etc) by obsessively focussing on the things that matter to the people in the fat part of the bell curve.

They admitted of being wrong with the new MacBook Pros like we wouldn’t believe it until it happened.

There are two rather important differences here though. One is of scale - as emphasised above, the iPhone sells at a totally different scale to every other Apple product. The MBP is a low volume (by Apple standards at least) product for a specific set of users and can afford to be Canonyero-ish.

The other difference is the MBPs were receiving increasingly lukewarm-to-poor reviews (even from Apple's admirers), and sales were flagging.

In contrast, the iPhone has been crushing it for years, especially in terms of sales. We're 6 years into the post headphone jack era now, and all Apple has done in that time is made an unimaginably large fortune.

 

[Andrew73875]

like OP, would like to go back to mid 2010s wired headphones.

Haha thank you. As much as I love my wireless headphones they are simply not capable of transmitting lossless quality. Bluetooth technology is not capable of doing it.

Chasing those just ends up like Homer Simpson designing the Canyonero.

They already added lossless to their software. It's a fait accompli. So, it seems like this example is not applicable here.

You become the world's first trillion dollar company (and then first $2t, then first $3t, etc) by obsessively focussing on the things that matter to the people in the fat part of the bell curve.

Exactly. This is why they added lossless to Apple Music. It's their competitive advantage. And adding lossless audio to a streaming service is not that easy and can't be just done overnight. It requires more bandwidth, more storage etc etc. Spotify couldn't do it for example.

If it wasn't worth it, they wouldn't do it. As you said above, you don't become the world's first trillion dollar company by making stupid decisions.

It's obvious that Apple will implement a headphone jack in upcoming releases. Otherwise they wouldn't even bother with adding lossless to iOS.

 

[PeteBurgh]

Haha thank you. As much as I love my wireless headphones they are simply not capable of transmitting lossless quality. Bluetooth technology is not capable of doing it.


They already added lossless to their software. It's a fait accompli. So, it seems like this example is not applicable here.



Exactly. This is why they added lossless to Apple Music. It's their competitive advantage. And adding lossless audio to a streaming service is not that easy and can't be just done overnight. It requires more bandwidth, more storage etc etc. Spotify couldn't do it for example.

If it wasn't worth it, they wouldn't do it. As you said above, you don't become the world's first trillion dollar company by making stupid decisions.

It's obvious that Apple will implement a headphone jack in upcoming releases. Otherwise they wouldn't even bother with adding lossless to iOS.

The “Music/iOS had lossless = return of headphone jack confirmed!” reasoning ignores the fairly obvious (and widely reported) possibility that others have mentioned: that future AirPods will support lossless using a new proprietary standard.

Come September 2022 or 2024 or whenever, when Apple announces a phone with a headphone jack, I shall be delighted to return to this thread, make my apologies, and post a video of me eating a bowl full of dongles. But until then, I think it’s about as likely as a Mac Mini with a floppy drive.

 

[Andrew73875]

But until then, I think it’s about as likely as a Mac Mini with a floppy drive.

Well, the analogy would work if Apple published that you need to use a floppy drive to install their new OS:

About lossless audio in Apple Music - Apple Support

Learn about lossless audio in Apple Music and how to turn it on or off for your device.

support.apple.com