iPhone 16 and 16 Plus Again Rumored to Jump From A16 to A18 Chip

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Sounds like the N3B A17 pro / M3 is a bit of a disappointment, maybe thats why there still arnt any M3s Maybe Apple will just release N3E A18 / M4s instead in 2024?

Doubtful on disappointment. What I think I've picked up by reading what seemed like objective posts in the know is that N3B is EXPENSIVE and N3E will be cheaper without compromising quality. Apple loving margin expansion loves to squeeze them nickels out of every little part. So, they skip "bionic" or similar N3B and go all in on a part that costs them less while deliver the same or more features & benefits.

But that's just educated guessing on a mosh of information gleaned from sources that might be reliable... or not. Someone with certainty knowledge about N3B vs. N3E pricing & features should chime in and confirm or refute.

 

[Mr. Dee]

I remember the days when Apple use to make fun of Microsoft with its multitude of Windows editions. Now they have turned the iPhone and iPad into the same thing. Is there a technical reason why one has to be limited over the other? Isn't this complicating manufacturing?

 

[klasma]

This is what you get instead of 120hz even though most competitors have it now.

Wasn’t the A16 already 3.46 GHz?

 

[BorisDG]

so the A18 is just the A17 Pro but with N3E ?

No. New CPU like always. You can't port N3B to any other N3(E/P/X). I said back than, that N3B is DOA. I was correct.

 

[klasma]

Honestly, wait for A20. its just around the corner.

Not sure about that, don’t you remember the Intel A20Gate?

 

[jz0309]

Sure they will transition to N3E, no doubt. What name they put in that processor? Who cares?

 

[JPack]

Doubtful on disappointment. What I think I've picked up by reading what seemed like objective posts in the know is that N3B is EXPENSIVE and N3E will be cheaper without compromising quality. Apple loving margin expansion loves to squeeze them nickels out of every little part. So, they skip "bionic" or similar N3B and go all in on a part that costs them less while deliver the same or more features & benefits.

N3B is the full featured TSMC 3nm process. N3E is a less expensive and relaxed process that offers slightly less density than N3B but higher yield.

What this means is, for a given design, die size will increase for N3E. Chances are, Apple will reduce cost by having smaller silicon by reducing cache, cores, or other transistors for regular A18.

 

[BorisDG]

N3B is the full featured TSMC 3nm process. N3E is a less expensive and relaxed process that offers slightly less density than N3B but higher yield.

What this means is die size will increase for N3E. Chances are, Apple will reduce cost by having smaller silicon by reducing cache, cores, or other transistors for regular A18.

N3E is better in everything (perf and efficiency), but just density. You can offset that with bigger die. I can't see Apple going under 6 CPU cores or cache change. The only thing which comes in mind (that's where Pro comes in A17) is the lack of raytracing and let's say less GPU cores. CPU configuration should be intact.

 

[RobertSeattleWA77]

Still glad I had the 15 PM

 

[swiftapplefan]

I'm guessing they will both use the "A18" chip but the 16 Pro will use the "A18 Pro" chip and the 16 Plus will use the regular A18 (non-Pro) chip which will simply be a rebranded A17 Pro chip.

Yeah, it seems that this is the way they’re headed.

 

[tipoo]

Interesting if true, I and many had thought that the n-1 chip strategy was to differentiate the Pro more and move ASPs up, but if this is true it may have been a temporary management around TSMC supply constraints

 

[NT1440]

Doubtful on disappointment. What I think I've picked up by reading what seemed like objective posts in the know is that N3B is EXPENSIVE and N3E will be cheaper without compromising quality. Apple loving margin expansion loves to squeeze them nickels out of every little part. So, they skip "bionic" or similar N3B and go all in on a part that costs them less while deliver the same or more features & benefits.

But that's just educated guessing on a mosh of information gleaned from sources that might be reliable... or not. Someone with certainty knowledge about N3B vs. N3E pricing & features should chime in and confirm or refute.

N3B was TSMC’s first production of 3nm. They found that they can’t scale it and “reformulated” the manufacturing process and N3E (and the other variants) was born.

Given the Capital costs involved 3nm simply wouldn’t be economically viable if vendors didn’t place orders for N3B. All vendors but Apple pulled out, and the A17 Pro was born.

N3B will be discontinued entirely as it’s not compatible with the new production process and designs are not directly transferable to N3E.

So it makes sense the A17 will disappear entirely as the production process itself is being discontinued for the entire industry.

A18 will be N3E.

It has nothing to do with cost savings or penny pinching from Apple, it’s just the reality of the economics of the industry.

 

[JPack]

N3E is better in everything (perf and efficiency), but just density. You can offset that with bigger die. I can't see Apple going under 6 CPU cores or cache change. The only thing which comes in mind (that's where Pro comes in A17) is the lack of raytracing and let's say less GPU cores. CPU configuration should be intact.

The better power and performance are literally just a couple percent according to TSMC. Based on past experience (N3B), those improvements are highly optimistic and unlikely to be realized.

"Offsetting" with a bigger die is expensive. The whole point of N3E is to reduce costs.

 

[BorisDG]

N3B was TSMC’s first production of 3nm. They found that they can’t scale it and “reformulated” the manufacturing process and N3E (and the other variants) was born.

Given the Capital costs involved 3nm simply wouldn’t be economically viable if vendors didn’t place orders for N3B. All vendors but Apple pulled out, and the A17 Pro was born.

N3B will be discontinued entirely as it’s not compatible with the new production process and designs are not directly transferable to N3E.

So it makes sense the A17 will disappear entirely as the production process itself is being discontinued for the entire industry.

A18 will be N3E.

It has nothing to do with cost savings or penny pinching from Apple, it’s just the reality of the economics of the industry.

Very well said!

 

[Lakersfan74]

Since they are now doing pro chips in the pro models it’s obvious they weren’t going to put the 17 pro in the regular 16 so now both series of phones will have the same number. One will just be regular and one pro. I’m keeping my 15PM and waiting for a refresh. The things have looked basically the same since the 11.

 

[TheNewLou]

Is there a technical reason why one has to be limited over the other? Isn't this complicating manufacturing?

Isn't this a classic case of scraping the bottom of the barrel for CPUs with one non-functioning core and calling this the non-pro model, thus saving them the cost of throwing it away completely? Seems reasonable. If there aren't enough CPUs with a non-functioning core, then they just disable one of the cores anyway.

 

[JPack]

Interesting if true, I and many had thought that the n-1 chip strategy was to differentiate the Pro more and move ASPs up, but if this is true it may have been a temporary management around TSMC supply constraints

The n-1 strategy is still true. This analyst is simply saying all 2024 iPhones will use N3E, which everyone already expected.

A chip using N3E tells us nothing about the performance. How different will A18 be from A18 Pro? What is the difference in die size? Cache size? GHz? We don't know any of that.

There is nothing stopping Apple from marketing a slow N3E chip as regular "A17."

 

[TheNewLou]

So we're back to "which chip is Apple putting into a putative updated Apple TV in Spring 2024?"

 

[TheNewLou]

N3B was TSMC’s first production of 3nm. They found that they can’t scale it and “reformulated” the manufacturing process and N3E (and the other variants) was born...

N3B will be discontinued entirely as it’s not compatible with the new production process and designs are not directly transferable to N3E.

So N3E is more like a 4nm process kinda thing?

 

[Pepperfection]

LOL @ those who bought the 15. With 16, I can open Safari .03 seconds faster!

 

[User 6502]

Easier to justify the 'non-pro' phones doing it this way.

A18 and A18 Pro at least gives the impression that the performance is closer to the average consumer than 'settling' for a chip which is perfectly fine that was originally produced the year prior.

Consumers are weird like that.

There is nothing weird in non wanting to pay a premium price (the standard iphone is a high end product that until not too long ago was the flagship model) for a 12 months old chip. ‘Perfectly fine’ is not good enough for something so expensive. It has to be cutting edge.

 

[now i see it]

Their marketing ploy of using last year’s SOC in the non pro iPhones even got confusing for them

 

[Tyler O'Bannon]

This absolutely makes sense. Seems like it's been moving this directions for a while.

The new A series in the Pro and Previous A series in the "Regular" has been a stop-gap to a Pro model and regular model of Apple Silicon.

They first did separation with the extra GPU core on the 13 Pro.

Then the put that with the extra GPU in the 14, giving it sill an improved chip, and the new A16 in the 14 Pro.

But now that A17 introduced "Pro", it makes sense to have an A18 and A18 Pro.

This evolution has already been underway.

 

[NT1440]

So N3E is more like a 4nm process kinda thing?

No it’s the first iteration of 3nm. It just doesn’t scale well from a manufacturing standpoint so TSMC developed the new path forward for 3nm, N3E (which is the base architecture of the other 3nm variants to come).

 

[tipoo]

I'm wondering if it might be that A18 vs A18 Pro would be about the same thing as A17 vs A18 with no pro names would be, so it's a marketing change but the A18 base non-Pro will still be more like A17