Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

dmelgar

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 29, 2005
1,588
168
Apple is playing catch-up. They are just now, finally, getting features that other competing phones have had for years already. Example? 4G. The iPhone finally has it. Other devices have already had it for 2+ years. Without a doubt, when other devices move on and advance to 5G, Apple will lag behind 2-3 years or more.

HTC thunderbolt was the first phone in the US with LTE. It came out 1 1/2 years ago, not 2 years. It is a horrible phone. A huge brick with abysmal battery life full of bugs. I can see why apple waited.

----------


Love all the informative detail you provided in your rebuttal. I develop apps for both platforms and can describe the differences. It's not subtle.

----------


lol
 

Oletros

macrumors 603
Jul 27, 2009
6,002
60
Premià de Mar
Love all the informative detail you provided in your rebuttal. I develop apps for both platforms and can describe the differences. It's not subtle.


Please, explain those not subtle differences.

And then, can you explain me how you can do exactly the same type of background task in Adnroid like there is in iOS?

Ah, and EVERY background task hurts battery
 

onthecouchagain

macrumors 604
Mar 29, 2011
7,382
2
Both OS-es are getting better and better for their respective dedicated user base.

If, however, you want to measure feature for feature, Android probably has more.
 

msandersen

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2003
217
31
Sydney, Australia
But it extends beyond that, now the new iPhone lightning cable even has a microchip in it which makes it very difficult to copy the cable or make unauthorized accessories, this is really disappointing.
There is no copy-protection chip in Lightning cables as some sites erroneously reported. It has by necessity a controller chip and the 30-pin converter has a DAC chip as well. Lightning is reversible, and the cable has to be able to detect which way it has been inserted to adapt the signals and which pin carries power. Without it, you'd soon fry your devices.
 

phpmaven

macrumors 68040
Jun 12, 2009
3,466
523
San Clemente, CA USA
I know this already. I just wish it was more open anyway, I want control and openness.

Apple could do it, OS X isn't breaking down is it? And yet I can run Photoshop in the background, install extensions in to my browser. It can be done properly if they'd just try. The way they have it now is all about lock ins they want to supply everything. The apps, the experience. The fact that when the iPhone launched and we couldn't even install applications is very telling of their attitude. But it extends beyond that, now the new iPhone lightning cable even has a microchip in it which makes it very difficult to copy the cable or make unauthorized accessories, this is really disappointing.

I like Apples stuff I love their designs both Hardware and Software but they need to loosen up and let other companies add value to their ecosystem in ways that Apple haven't imagined possible yet. At the moment everyone is having to play in Apples tightly controlled sand pit and that is going to hurt them in the long run as Android continues to dominate in market share and grow every year in features and ease of use.

I don't agree that it's going to "hurt them in the long run". The reason why the iPhone has been so successful is that it "just works". The vast majority of customers want something that works simply and reliably. They don't care about this "openness" issue or even know what that means.
 

Quu

macrumors 68040
Apr 2, 2007
3,441
6,874
There is no copy-protection chip in Lightning cables as some sites erroneously reported. It has by necessity a controller chip and the 30-pin converter has a DAC chip as well. Lightning is reversible, and the cable has to be able to detect which way it has been inserted to adapt the signals and which pin carries power. Without it, you'd soon fry your devices.

Apparently not as Mac rumors just posted a news piece saying the authentication chip has been cracked. The wording of it being an authentication chip would indicate it does more than just switching signal inputs. And really that could be done on the device side.

https://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/0...acked-unauthorized-third-party-cables-coming/

I don't agree that it's going to "hurt them in the long run". The reason why the iPhone has been so successful is that it "just works". The vast majority of customers want something that works simply and reliably. They don't care about this "openness" issue or even know what that means.

It is already hurting them as Android is about to eclipse the iPhone in applications and far outsells the iPhone. The Samsung Galaxy S3 alone (the top of the line Android device) sold 20 million units in three months and will probably sell 40 Million before the S4 debuts.

We can no longer just say androids market share is booming because of all the cheap phones, the S3 is anything but cheap and is selling very well in a world where the iPhone exists.

Apple could do proper multitasking and themes/skins/icon packs and home screen widgets but they are spread too thin in my opinion and iOS 6 shows that having very little in the way of big new features. And Maps .. well we all know how poor that is compared to Googles Maps. That alone has made people consider getting an Android device instead of an iPhone and you must know that.
 

dmelgar

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 29, 2005
1,588
168
Please, explain those not subtle differences.

And then, can you explain me how you can do exactly the same type of background task in Adnroid like there is in iOS?

Ah, and EVERY background task hurts battery

If you really want to know the differences between iOS and Android background tasks (I somehow doubt it), you could read the docs in the Android SDK and iOS SDK. A simple google search would reveal lots of copies of the info such as this one.

The brief answer is that iOS rules apps with an iron fist while Android asks apps to behave nicely.

iOS app don't run on their own. The operating system calls the app and asks it to handle something, could be incoming data or a touch or gesture. iOS gives the app a few seconds to handle the event. If it doesn't complete it in time, iOS kills the app. Thats when you see an iOS device go back to the home screen.

iOS generally does NOT allow background tasks. Detractors will say iOS doesn't have true multitasking. It doesn't have unmonitored multitasking on purpose. iOS has special purpose APIs to support VOIP, streaming music (Pandora) apps and location tracking (navigation) apps. Even these apps get notified by iOS when data is available, they're supposed to process the data and be done. Or else.

The only provision for general background processing is that an app can 'request' to continue running after a user switches away from it. And even then, iOS still calls the app and expects a response within a certain amount of time. The app has to request additional time. Once 10 minutes is reached, iOS will no longer grant the request and will kill the app if it doesnt stop.

Apple did not take the easy way out with this API. This is the hard approach. They did it so that iOS maintains control of the system and knows for certain what apps are doing. This is the key to power management and also memory and CPU.

Android takes a more traditional approach similar to Linux, Mac OS, Windows. Apps can run and do as they please. Android has a process lifecycle and rules about when an app is "supposed" to terminate. But Android does not enforce this rule because the app can run independent of operating system calls. Android assumes apps are trying to be well behaved. It notifies apps of the various life cycle stages. Apps are supposed to quit when they receive some notifications. But if they don't, they may continue to run or Android might kill them if it needs the memory elsewhere. The more memory a phone has (S3), the more likely misbehaved apps may continue running.

And what if an app misbehaves? Who is going to complain? Will Google yank them from Google Play? Not likely. There is no app review. Will users complain? How can they tell why their phone's battery is dying. Must be the phone. Need to get a task killer and just start killing everything in case.

The lack of a moderator in Google Play means that apps don't get cleaned up. Its hard work to develop your app properly. Why bother if no one complains. Over time more apps misbehave with little consequence.

Another confusion for users in iOS is when they receive notifications from apps. They assume that means that app is running. However this is not true. The company making the app has a server which sends a message to Apple's notification server which sends a message to the phone. The phone displays the message. If a user selects it, THEN iOS starts the app to handle whatever the notification was.

At first I found the iOS system limiting. There are things it cannot do. However I've also lived with an Android phone for 3 years and have seen how often apps misbehave. I'm now a believer in the strict controls Apple has placed on background apps. The battery life is amazing given how small the phone is and how small the battery is. Skype on my brick Thunderbolt would kill the battery in a few hours. Skype on iOS isn't running in the background. It takes ZERO battery power unless I have the app running in the foreground, ie I'm using it.
 

Oletros

macrumors 603
Jul 27, 2009
6,002
60
Premià de Mar
If you really want to know the differences between iOS and Android background tasks (I somehow doubt it), you could read the docs in the Android SDK and iOS SDK. A simple google search would reveal lots of copies of the info such as this one.

The brief answer is that iOS rules apps with an iron fist while Android asks apps to behave nicely.

Thanks for proving my point.

You completely ignored the fact that in Android you can have lightweight background processes, triggering the execution via AlarmManager, Google Cloud Messaging, etc.

Your claim was that background tasks are what makes Android battery time crap and this is wrong, bad developed background tasks make battery drain. Android has all tools to make them nice. Bad or lazy developers are the ones to blame, not Android.
 

Oletros

macrumors 603
Jul 27, 2009
6,002
60
Premià de Mar
LOL.
Of course that was your point, so well articulated as "wrong". Apparently still don't understand the fundamental API differences. Moving on.

I know perfectly the differences, the one that doesn't understand that with the API's exposed and the framework that Android provides a developer can make an app that behaves exactly like in iOS.

The problem with battery drain is not in the OS, it is the developer's fault
 

Gatecrasher1875

macrumors member
Jun 11, 2012
72
0
I didn't realise how much rubbish was posted on here until I tried android for myself. I like both ios and android and still use them both but some people need to get real and accept that android is every bit as good as ios. All this rubbish about lack of apps, and crashing and lag is nonsense.
 

Apollo 13

macrumors 6502a
May 29, 2010
679
16
As someone that's not bias and use both systems everyday. I like to get something straight because to much crap is going around. Jelly Bean makes the phone ui smooth and that's it. Certain apps are still laggy and jelly bean can't fix that.
 

roxxette

macrumors 68000
Aug 9, 2011
1,507
0
sorry, that phone overheats and shuts down from playing 2 hours of fruit ninja, asphalt and doodle jump, just horrible.

I bet you love your 'hyperglazed' (lol) plastic back that literally feels like c*m ?

----------



I have 3 friends with android phones, I asked them if they had ICS on there, all 3 of them looked at me as if i'm speaking some alien language to them.

a5ybuzyn.jpg
 

roxxette

macrumors 68000
Aug 9, 2011
1,507
0
I didn't realise how much rubbish was posted on here until I tried android for myself. I like both ios and android and still use them both but some people need to get real and accept that android is every bit as good as ios. All this rubbish about lack of apps, and crashing and lag is nonsense.

Exactly, ive used a god damm htc hd2 wich is a ****ing old phone, flashed with the most current android rom for that device and that thing was working it with no problem and zero lag, i downloaded some games and they played the same or better because of the big screen than on my iphone lol

People also rave about the screen on the iphone but seriously who runs that screen at 100% brightness ? I keep it at 40% or less and theres no much to rave....
 

flameproof

macrumors 6502a
Jan 14, 2011
615
18
Exactly, ive used a god damm htc hd2 wich is a ****ing old phone

it's ...... old, but refused to die. I just flashed my old HD2 to WP7.8 - and it works perfectly.

My opinion about the iPhone 5 - nothing special. Just another upmarket phone. As an iPhone 4 user I have zero temptation to move to iPhone 5. For me they are the same phones. The little bigger screen I don't care about.
 

onthecouchagain

macrumors 604
Mar 29, 2011
7,382
2
I didn't realise how much rubbish was posted on here until I tried android for myself. I like both ios and android and still use them both but some people need to get real and accept that android is every bit as good as ios. All this rubbish about lack of apps, and crashing and lag is nonsense.

Well done.

It's pure obscurantism. I think certain devoted iOS users have a hard time dealing with the idea that another platform can be better than iOS. And so they cling onto the Android of yesteryear, overblowing any issues and pretending certain problems problems still exist.

Is it possible to get a poor Android device today? Sure -- that's just the nature of the beast, the nature of proliferating the market with low-to-high-end Android devices, the nature of choice. But as people gradually become more tech-interested and tech-savvy and do their research, they can find Android devices that are amazing and better experiences.
 

daveathall

macrumors 68020
Aug 6, 2010
2,379
1,410
North Yorkshire
I didn't realise how much rubbish was posted on here until I tried android for myself. I like both ios and android and still use them both but some people need to get real and accept that android is every bit as good as ios. All this rubbish about lack of apps, and crashing and lag is nonsense.

I very nearly never got my S3 simply by reading some of the things written on this forum by members who, IMHO can never have had or used an up to date Android device. I must be very lucky or have a one in a million phone because I have not experienced lag, unresponsive screen, fragmentation, poor apps, lack of apps, difficult one handed operation, poor build quality, bad battery life, trojan horses, spyware etc etc etc, which I find strange, because if we are talking luck, I'm that lucky that if I was in a marching band I would carry a piano.

I think it is a shame because both platforms are now superb in execution, some members need to lay aside their blind bias.
 
Last edited:

dmelgar

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Apr 29, 2005
1,588
168
The problem with battery drain is not in the OS, it is the developer's fault
Of course its possible to write apps that don't kill the battery.

The point you're either missing or purposely ignoring is that iOS's API makes it extremely difficult to write a bad 'background' app whereas Android doesn't.

----------

I think it is a shame because both platforms are now superb in execution, some members need to lay aside their blind bias.
Blind bias yes is a shame, but stay informed. Its bad to simply gloss over differences and say they're all the same or all good. That may help end the arguing, but it doesn't educate regarding real differences.
 

daveathall

macrumors 68020
Aug 6, 2010
2,379
1,410
North Yorkshire
Blind bias yes is a shame, but stay informed. Its bad to simply gloss over differences and say they're all the same or all good. That may help end the arguing, but it doesn't educate regarding real differences.


Of course. But blind bias often distorts the differences which doesn't educate, in fact it does quite the opposite. some of the posts in this thread IMHO, are bias driven and the distortion of truth is far from educational.
 
Last edited:

Oletros

macrumors 603
Jul 27, 2009
6,002
60
Premià de Mar
Of course its possible to write apps that don't kill the battery.

The point you're either missing or purposely ignoring is that iOS's API makes it extremely difficult to write a bad 'background' app whereas Android doesn't.

No, I'm not ignoring nothing. Your original claim was that iOS API is a more difficult one and this is false, the public API exposed is a subset of the public API exposed by Android so it is not more difficult.

And Android is not the one to be blamed as you claimed, the ones to blame are developers.
 

robotphood

macrumors 65816
Jun 25, 2010
1,097
180
Exactly, ive used a god damm htc hd2 wich is a ****ing old phone, flashed with the most current android rom for that device and that thing was working it with no problem and zero lag, i downloaded some games and they played the same or better because of the big screen than on my iphone lol

People also rave about the screen on the iphone but seriously who runs that screen at 100% brightness ? I keep it at 40% or less and theres no much to rave....

Previous HD2 owner here too. My fav phone of all time. So much to tweak and play with. Plus winmo has a special place in my heart (although I don't miss it one bit). But you honestly can't see the difference between the iPhone screen vs an HD2?? Also I'm at 80-100% brightness depending where I am. 40% is a tad low? Why not run it bright and visible?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.