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Meister

Suspended
Oct 10, 2013
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I never said they did, and the links don't say they do.

If you had taken the time to actually read and comprehend the text you would have realised this.

The links do, quite clearly show that Richardson uses P&S film cameras quite regularly (in fact this is the look that he is famous for) in his fashion work.

The DAH link and clip (if you opened it) has DAH showing different photos in his most recent book and stating which cameras were used including iPhone. But of course, these iPhone shots were only included because Apple paid him to use the iPhone...right? :rolleyes:
I didn't say that.
I agree that for certain types of photography the iPhone works pretty good. P&S, too.
At the end of the day it isn't about the camera, but I prefere my DSLR. :)
 

Oracle1729

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2009
638
0
I wouldn't call the D90 "old consumer grade hardware". The 18-200 is rather on the consumer end though.

Properly used this combo will pulverize any phone camera.

Fair enough, maybe it was too strong a wording. But my point was that it will pulverize any phone camera even though it's 6 years old. And compared to the D300s, D700, and D3 of the same era, it wasn't the best of what was available in 2008.

So what I was saying is that even after all this time and so much "progress" in cell phones over the past few years people are talking about in this thread, the phones still don't hold a candle to where real cameras were ages ago.
 

Oracle1729

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2009
638
0
Think about this: Terry Richardson using a cheap P&S for his fashion work. Stephen Gill using a found, scratched up, cheap, plastic P&S to produce Hackney Wick. David Alan Harvey using Leica, Fuji, iPhone amongst others to produce (Based on) a True Story. Olivia Arthur using photos of photos in her work about women in Saudi Arabia. Stephen Shore using a cheap P&S in his early work.

You're using examples of people who are using crappy gear for certain artistic effects. Whether or not you like their art from, the fact that they use poor quality cameras for art has nothing at all to do with this discussion. And you're mixing in people who use high end gear too, so I really don't see your point.

I'm sure you can find a lot of "professional" photographers who work with Holgas. The fact that they find huge success with those images in the art world doesn't mean they take a decent picture, and your examples are completely irrelevant to this thread.

The fact is the majority of iPhone camera users are taking instragram selfles and facebook snapshots, and don't know the difference between a lens and a filter. (Or a filer and a photo editing program for that matter). iPhone camera users have nothing at all to do with photographers and never will.

For every person who buys a Ferrari, thousands buy a Honda Civic. It doesn't mean a Civic will ever give you the same performance as a Ferrari, and why should Honda even care? No matter how many people want a car for puttering around the city, there will still be a market for people who want a performance sports car and will pay the price for it.

McDonalds will never have a shortage of customers. Neither will five star restaurants.

There is a growing community of instagrammers producing fantastic work with cell phones. Some are becoming commercially successful.

Good for them. There's also more pictures of cats taken by iPhones on the internet than there are paintings in all the museums in the world. I'm not sure how that's relevant to this thread, but it's no less so than your comment.

You look at iPhone snapshots run through instagram filters. I'll continue to get my inspiration from modelmayhem and photo.net, and even here with people like needfx. I'm sure all those "professional photographers" you reference with their basic cameras have a concept in mind for their photos and go to exquisite trouble to realize their concepts.

You're now comparing a quick selfie with an instagram filter to a crafted image which starts with a design concept, make-up artists and hair stylists. Carefully constructed lighting setups. Precise posing, even using wooden figure study models to help pose a person. Paying attention to every strand of hair, every finger. And then there's hours of post production work which is not a 1-click filter.

And you think someone with that much passion putting that many hours of work into a shot is going to take the actual exposure with an iPhone. That's just laughable. With all that work, you want to be content with a web image? For me 13x19 is a "standard" print, and a lot of people have told me I think too small for saying that.

Personally, when I see a great photo I just think wow! What a great picture. What equipment was used, grain, noise, DR, etc doesn't enter my mind. Sometimes there is a story behind the picture, like the guy reporting on the Libyan revolution whose DSLR broke so he switched to his iPhone. That just makes me think hey, great work.

And when I see a great photo, I think about how it was taken. Where the light sources are, the camera angle, how the subjects were arranged and set up. How it was cropped. What post-production was involved.

And again, you reference some guy who took photos with his iPhone when his DSLR broke. What does that have to do with this thread which is about whether iPhones can ever replace DSLRs and all that they bring to an image. Do you think because some guy can use his iPhone in a pinch it's good enough for everyone?
 

simonsi

Contributor
Jan 3, 2014
4,851
735
Auckland
http://business.financialpost.com/2...ext-blackberry/?__federated=1&__lsa=6bfb-7c44

Some numbers there for anyone interested.

image quality as a primary value is now second to connectivity to Web services like Facebook.” Rather, it’s that sweet spot between form factor, image quality, and software connectivity that consumers want"

Interesting read. Declining shipments of digital cameras will mean higher prices and/or less to spend on R&D.
 

Oracle1729

macrumors 6502a
Feb 4, 2009
638
0
In the same way that you are saying iPhones cannot take pictures at all and that no one has ever taken anything vaguely resembling a photograph with one. All those people claiming to be happy or satisfied with iPhone photos are all being paid by Apple to pretend to be happy.

So you still have your reading comprehension problems?

Millions of people use iPhones to take their selfies and food photos and are happy because they don't know the difference. They would never buy a DSLR so they are irrelevant to a discussion about whether iPhones can replace real cameras.

The people who are doing professional photo shoots and then saying "gee look, I'm a world famous photographer and I did this one shoot with an iPhone and look how great it is but now I'll go back to shooting with my real equipment" are paid shills.


No one is saying that an iPhone is better than a D610 (or even a D90), but they are surely getting better, and serve well in places where they need to.

I don't see what kind of improvement you're talking about. The iPhone 4 and iPhone 6 both take low resolution (optical, not megapixels), low DR, low quality pictures that are hard to tell apart despite 4 years of better tech between them.

Meanwhile, the 6 year old D90 blows them both out of the water. And it is doubtful a cell phone camera will ever rival a D90 in image quality. 4 years of evolution sure haven't made a difference.

The D610 vs the D90 is a huge difference in every way. The iPhone 4 vs iPhone 6...same thing.

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image quality as a primary value is now second to connectivity to Web services like Facebook.” Rather, it’s that sweet spot between form factor, image quality, and software connectivity that consumers want"

I'm sure that's true. Among the huge majority who never cared about image quality in the first place. People who would by P&S cameras before and will buy cell phone cameras today. There has always been more demand for cheap easy to use cameras.
 

simonsi

Contributor
Jan 3, 2014
4,851
735
Auckland
I'm sure that's true. Among the huge majority who never cared about image quality in the first place. People who would by P&S cameras before and will buy cell phone cameras today. There has always been more demand for cheap easy to use cameras.

But that is chewing away at DSLR sales for the first time. 10-15% decline is very significant. That indicates that for those people, a previous DSLR purchase is turning into a smartphone with a camera.
 

Meister

Suspended
Oct 10, 2013
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But that is chewing away at DSLR sales for the first time. 10-15% decline is very significant. That indicates that for those people, a previous DSLR purchase is turning into a smartphone with a camera.
I think there is also some other migration going on. some move to mirrorless and a lot of pros go medium format, with pentax making the first mf camera for less then 10k. and also look at leicas new mf dslr series.
 

simonsi

Contributor
Jan 3, 2014
4,851
735
Auckland
I think there is also some other migration going on. some move to mirrorless and a lot of pros go medium format, with pentax making the first mf camera for less then 10k. and also look at leicas new mf dslr series.

Possibly (quite likely in fact), but the overall all-types digital decline is some 36% so if those aren't classed as DSLR then they will be lost in the bigger number - but the net decline in DSLRs is my concern...
 

Meister

Suspended
Oct 10, 2013
5,456
4,310
Possibly (quite likely in fact), but the overall all-types digital decline is some 36% so if those aren't classed as DSLR then they will be lost in the bigger number - but the net decline in DSLRs is my concern...
Those 36% are the P&S market being taken over by phones.
Digital P&S used to be booming business, now it's just a niche market.
 

Attonine

macrumors 6502a
Feb 15, 2006
744
58
Kent. UK
iPhone camera users have nothing at all to do with photographers and never will.

I'm done. Clearly the only valid type of photography is studio photography using models. The only valid camera is a DSLR. Everyone with a DSLR understands filters and lenses and takes painstaking studio shots. Everyone with everything else takes "selfies". Time magazine and Magnum photographers are paid by Apple to produce and publish reportage.:rolleyes:

You have a very, very narrow view of photography.
 

VI™

macrumors 6502a
Aug 27, 2010
636
1
Shepherdsturd, WV
I'm done. Clearly the only valid type of photography is studio photography using models. The only valid camera is a DSLR. Everyone with a DSLR understands filters and lenses and takes painstaking studio shots. Everyone with everything else takes "selfies". Time magazine and Magnum photographers are paid by Apple to produce and publish reportage.:rolleyes:

You have a very, very narrow view of photography.

Nah, I'm with you. An iPhone can replace a DSLR for certain people but it really depends on the type of photography. An iPhone won't ever match the performance of a modern DSLR (gen for gen) but there are soccer moms and tourist that buy a DSLR with a kit lens and use it for snapshots. They think that a better camera takes better pictures. There's a lot of people like this out there.
 

acearchie

macrumors 68040
Jan 15, 2006
3,264
104
Fair enough, maybe it was too strong a wording. But my point was that it will pulverize any phone camera even though it's 6 years old.

Pulverise in what sense though? AF, portability, ease or use, shutter speed etc?

I'm not sure how it pulverises any phone camera out there.
 

Symtex

macrumors 6502a
Jan 27, 2005
515
2
Pulverise in what sense though? AF, portability, ease or use, shutter speed etc?

I'm not sure how it pulverises any phone camera out there.

have you every tried to do bird or sports photography with an iphone ? I use an 600mm lens on my DSLR. There is no way I can do this with an iphone. Specially if I want to follow a bird in flight. I can also shoot photos at 25600 ISO on my DSLR. Try that on an Iphone.
 

Meister

Suspended
Oct 10, 2013
5,456
4,310
Pulverise in what sense though? AF, portability, ease or use, shutter speed etc?

I'm not sure how it pulverises any phone camera out there.
Af, fps(with af on), DR, noise perfomance and most importantly control of DOF.
 

v3rlon

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2014
925
749
Earth (usually)
So you still have your reading comprehension problems?

Millions of people use iPhones to take their selfies and food photos and are happy because they don't know the difference. They would never buy a DSLR so they are irrelevant to a discussion about whether iPhones can replace real cameras.

The people who are doing professional photo shoots and then saying "gee look, I'm a world famous photographer and I did this one shoot with an iPhone and look how great it is but now I'll go back to shooting with my real equipment" are paid shills.




I don't see what kind of improvement you're talking about. The iPhone 4 and iPhone 6 both take low resolution (optical, not megapixels), low DR, low quality pictures that are hard to tell apart despite 4 years of better tech between them.

Meanwhile, the 6 year old D90 blows them both out of the water. And it is doubtful a cell phone camera will ever rival a D90 in image quality. 4 years of evolution sure haven't made a difference.

The D610 vs the D90 is a huge difference in every way. The iPhone 4 vs iPhone 6...same thing.

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I'm sure that's true. Among the huge majority who never cared about image quality in the first place. People who would by P&S cameras before and will buy cell phone cameras today. There has always been more demand for cheap easy to use cameras.

My reading comprehension is just fine. Note how I said "in the same way that you said..." In regards to people taking about specific use cases where a phone camera DOES replace a DSLR and you broad rushing it to them saying that no one EVER needs a DSLR, which is clearly not what anyone is saying. Even when that future date where a cell phone camera is as good or better than human eyes, is still qualified that with "the vast majority of users," not "everyone."

I use a D7100 and NEX VG 20 now,so clearly, depite my support of iPhone, I feel there is a difference. As an aside, if you can't tell the difference between shots form the i4 and the i6, it's kind of funny that you can see all those worlds of difference between the cell phones and DSLR. Better yet, go back to the iPhone 3 to the 6 and tell me you don't notice anything. There are advantages to larger and smaller form factors.

Until you can prove that the problems with the smaller for factor of the phone are impossible to solve (and it is impossible to prove something is completely impossible), you bold prediction of cell phones NEVER being good enough fails.
 

Attonine

macrumors 6502a
Feb 15, 2006
744
58
Kent. UK
have you every tried to do bird or sports photography with an iphone ? I use an 600mm lens on my DSLR. There is no way I can do this with an iphone. Specially if I want to follow a bird in flight. I can also shoot photos at 25600 ISO on my DSLR. Try that on an Iphone.

Have you ever tried to do street or documentary photography with a DSLR and 600mm lens?

Different tools for different jobs.
 

Symtex

macrumors 6502a
Jan 27, 2005
515
2
Have you ever tried to do street or documentary photography with a DSLR and 600mm lens?

Different tools for different jobs.

and my DSLR allows me to use an wide angle lens and still have more dynamic range than small sensor. I am a full frame snob. I got an 5D3 and Sony A7r. The only thing that is good about the iphone camera is the convenience it provides.
 

Attonine

macrumors 6502a
Feb 15, 2006
744
58
Kent. UK
and my DSLR allows me to use an wide angle lens and still have more dynamic range than small sensor. I am a full frame snob. I got an 5D3 and Sony A7r. The only thing that is good about the iphone camera is the convenience it provides.

Convenience like discretion maybe? Like when working on a documentary project? Like when a 5D3 is too loud and conspicuos and so effects the behaviour of the subjects? Situations where your A7r, or even a cell phone would be preferable?
 

acearchie

macrumors 68040
Jan 15, 2006
3,264
104
have you every tried to do bird or sports photography with an iphone ? I use an 600mm lens on my DSLR. There is no way I can do this with an iphone. Specially if I want to follow a bird in flight. I can also shoot photos at 25600 ISO on my DSLR. Try that on an Iphone.

That's my point. I don't think you can say it pulverises the iPhone in every single way possible. It's the niche categories.

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Af, fps(with af on), DR, noise perfomance and most importantly control of DOF.

My iPhone will beat out a D90 in AF and burst rate!
 

Cheese&Apple

macrumors 68010
Jun 5, 2012
2,004
6,606
Toronto
The last time I tried to use my D600 and 500mm f/4 for street photography I smacked some old girl under the chin with the lens hood. Someone with an iPhone captured a great shot of the whole incident. ;)
 

teknikal90

macrumors 68040
Jan 28, 2008
3,384
1,945
Vancouver, BC
i know tonnes of pro photographers that keep instagram accounts on the side as a side hobby reserved for just their iphone shots

most of their shots on there are miles and miles better than those of the 'enthusiast uncles with big wallets' and a 1D with a 18-35 L lens and a hot shoe flash

im in the camp of 'it's the photographer, not the gear'.
 

nburwell

macrumors 603
May 6, 2008
5,559
2,462
DE
This past weekend I was up in the Adirondacks for hiking and photography. My D800 is my main camera, and I usually just use my iPhone for scouting pics, or to take some creative shots that I'll process on my phone and post to my Instagram account. During sunset, which is a high contrast scene, my iPhone could not handle any shadow recovery at all. My D800 handled the underexposed image like a champ. My iPhone will never replace my DSLR, but it certainly compliments it nicely for those times, where I know I know I'm not going to print the images.
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,370
124
Los Angeles
i know tonnes of pro photographers that keep instagram accounts on the side as a side hobby reserved for just their iphone shots

most of their shots on there are miles and miles better than those of the 'enthusiast uncles with big wallets' and a 1D with a 18-35 L lens and a hot shoe flash

im in the camp of 'it's the photographer, not the gear'.

Why does everyone always say that and then give an apples to oranges comparison? I mean, sure, Michael Phelps in a lead vest could beat me in a swim meet yet the Speedo LZR suit was banned from competition because it (a piece of gear) gave the swimmer wearing it an unfair advantage. Have equally qualified people go head-to-head but give one great gear for the job and the other crappy gear for the job and see if you are surprised at which one comes out on top.

Is better gear going to make a talentless hack talented? No. Can better gear give an experienced pro the ability to do things they otherwise might not be able to do (or might not be able to do as quickly or easily)? Yes.
 
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