"iPhone killers" reviewed in WSJ

[NewtypeCJ]

Mossberg already said he has/is using an iPhone. I think positioning this article before his review of the iPhone is good timing. Next week he can reference this and either say how it compares while he was being fair by giving these guys some ink as well.

 

[yg17]

And crash, and crash, and freeze up, and crash, and crash, and freeze up, etc....

These are not features of the iPhone, WM exclusive.

My phone's never done that

 

[LoganT]

And crash, and crash, and freeze up, and crash, and crash, and freeze up, etc....

These are not features of the iPhone, WM exclusive.

You don't know that.

 

[bloodycape]

And crash, and crash, and freeze up, and crash, and crash, and freeze up, etc....

These are not features of the iPhone, WM exclusive.

I dunno about you but I have been using WM for 5 years now and none of the devices I have owned and non of them have ever freezed a few crashes once in a while(due more to third party software) but then again so has my old LG phone.

 

[applehero]

You don't know that.

Shall we start taking bets??? WM vs OS X, I don't know about anyone else, but I've had my PB G4 for 2 years now, and I hasn't frozen up or crashed once. I can't say the same for any windows machine (mobile or otherwise) that I've ever used. Do you really think the iPhone (using OS X) is going to be any different?

 

[bloodycape]

Shall we start taking bets??? WM vs OS X, I don't know about anyone else, but I've had my PB G4 for 2 years now, and I hasn't frozen up or crashed once. I can't say the same for any windows machine (mobile or otherwise) that I've ever used. Do you really think the iPhone (using OS X) is going to be any different?

Well I guess some people have better luck than others? I had an ibook G3 that had multiple screen issues, a iBook G4 that required me to reinstall the OS twice because of instability and a MBP that kernal panicked like crazy Does that make Apple computers unstable and crappy(worse devices ever?)? No. I have had WM pdas and cellphone and have never had an issue with them does that make the best devices ever? No.

And to the person who made the comment about Nokia being clunky, last I heard their Symbian based OS is suppose to be very friendly and easy to use for a non touch screen phone.

my .02 cents I guess this because I have been using Winamp since 1996 that I find itunes as average at best. Or the fact I require more features/codec standard and UMS capability out of my DAP.

 

[aristobrat]

Windows Mobile is good, solid software. It's awesome. Does everything the stupid iPhone does and then some, such as MMS, 3rd party apps, Java and Flash

And it's been out in the US since the MPx200 .. when was that? Early 2004? When's it going to take off?

IMO, Windows Mobile phones to-date have been just like the Zune -- decent products that the general public could care less about.

Even with all of the shortcomings mentioned in your quote, people are dying to get the iPhone. The logic of that appears to be boggling a lot of folks minds here.

I was going to say that Microsoft should figure out how to make devices that really appeal to the public, but since they don't make any of the hardware that Windows Mobile runs on, I guess they're at the mercy of HTC, Motorola, and whoever uses licenses their stuff.

 

[cire]

Windows mobile zucks! I have to restart my phone three times a day! I also have had no improved functionality from it other than the apps i add since I bought it. Do you think that apple isn't going to continously upgrade the iPhone's features? They do with all of their other products, why not the iPhone. And as far as numbers are concerned, the PC world has been hitting us over the head with numbers for years. But, there has never been a time when Windows has been more enjoyable to sit down and use then Mac OS X. I say it will be the same with the iPhone.

I had a Nokia and it was a tank physically. But Symbian does have its problems, and in neither case was mobile internet something I looked forward too. If I was in a jam, i'd use it but elsewise nope. I believe iPhone will change that.

 

[LoganT]

Shall we start taking bets??? WM vs OS X, I don't know about anyone else, but I've had my PB G4 for 2 years now, and I hasn't frozen up or crashed once. I can't say the same for any windows machine (mobile or otherwise) that I've ever used. Do you really think the iPhone (using OS X) is going to be any different?

You make it sound as if it's Windows Mobile VS OSX. It's Windows Mobile VS OSX Mobile. OSX is not in the phone. Sure there may be some elements, but it's not the same thing.

 

[applehero]

You make it sound as if it's Windows Mobile VS OSX. It's Windows Mobile VS OSX Mobile. OSX is not in the phone. Sure there may be some elements, but it's not the same thing.

I have never seen any reference to OSX Mobile. It is OS X, it may not have the the additional drivers, extensions, or full feature set, but it is OS X. OS X on a MBP vs OS X on iPhone would be like Vista Ultimate Ed vs Vista Home Ed. It's still Vista, just doesn't have the fancy bells and whistles.

 

[cire]

Do we call it OS X Intel and OS X PowerPC? How about OS X TV?

 

[yg17]

IMO, Windows Mobile phones to-date have been just like the Zune -- decent products that the general public could care less about.

I think the number I heard was 22% market share for smartphones for WM. Not high, but I'd wager a guess that it's about a 4 way tie between WM, RIM, Palm and Symbian (I'd probably give RIM a bit more and Symbian a bit less) for market share, so not too bad.

It's a lot easier to say that with OSX's market share that the general public can care less about it. Has OSX even broken into double digits yet?

 

[pr5owner]

I think the number I heard was 22% market share for smartphones for WM. Not high, but I'd wager a guess that it's about a 4 way tie between WM, RIM, Palm and Symbian (I'd probably give RIM a bit more and Symbian a bit less) for market share, so not too bad.

It's a lot easier to say that with OSX's market share that the general public can care less about it. Has OSX even broken into double digits yet?

not really

Symbian OS is 72% (every nokia and SE smartphone is running s60? so apple should be targeting nokia and SE in order to gain dominance)
Linux (motorola uses this mostly) 16%
Windows Mobile - 5.6%
RIM/BB - 2.8%
Palm OS 1.8%

however, motorola is now using WM (motorola Q), palm ditched their OWN os and went with windows so

5.6+16+1.8 = 23% with rough rounding and market fluctuations (HTC releases like 10 new devices a year) i can see 20%-25% which is where the 22% came from

this was taken from wiki btw

also i highly doubt the iphone is running the same osx as the desktop version even with all the stripped out drivers. osx runs like an absolute snail on the macmini 512MB G4, an iphone's cpu is no where NEAR as powerful as the G4 (the g4 sucks by todays standards already) and the iphone does not have 512RAM, no phone has 512RAM it would make the device cost like $1500. does OSX even recognize an ARM 11 cpu? (not an intel CPU)

 

[pr5owner]

And crash, and crash, and freeze up, and crash, and crash, and freeze up, etc....

These are not features of the iPhone, WM exclusive.

WM5/6 is not XP or vista, its a completly diffrent OS, the most they share in common is like CTRL + C to copy and maybe the registry (has HKLM and HKCU)

my phone does freeze from time to time, but i also have 60x+ 3rd party applications, it takes 400MB on my 2GB microsd card for the applications alone (remember these are mobile applications, supposed to be small but it adds up) however, when i got my phone new it was shipped 2day fedex, i bought my microsd card at the same time as my tytn but it was shipped using EMS (10 days from HK vs 2) i couldnt install anything on my phone other than TCPMP and opera. the phone never froze once, it didnt even go slow. once i installed all those applications (took like 3 hours, thank God for SPB backup so i dont have to do it again) it slowed down a little bit due to the higher usage in ram. when i have like 10 things running at the same time, multitasking it does freeze maybe once a week.

using a MBP and a mac mini at work, i can say those things do not like running more than 10 programs, i always get the pinwheel of death, ive reimage the macmini 2x now becuase when you uninstall and reinstall applications the OS gets totally screwed up.

 

[Fafafoooey]

Here's what I think. I think Apple is seriously limiting the potential of the iPhone. I think from a software standpoint the iPhone is great. From a hardware standpoint, not so much. I mean, why wouldn't they put in 3G? It makes absolutely no sense that they wouldn't put this in (and don't say it doesn't matter, if Apple had put it in the iPhone, you guys would be loving it). If it's anyone who is spreading FUD it's Apple. Third party applications are not going to take down the whole network. You guys have to stop making excuses for Apple, not everyone is out to get them.

I think because 3G uses more power than EDGE/GPRS/GSM, and the IPhone is supposed to be great with battery run time. I would guess that Apple will figure out how to get 3G to use less power and still be 100% functional. And to your statement about 3rd party apps don't hurt? Look at the Treo. Most of its problems are because of crappy third party apps. People just code anything they can, sell it to dumb people, and they QA it, and the developers put out updates. That is exactly what Apple is trying to prevent, Palm's stupid mistakes.

 

[pr5owner]

I think because 3G uses more power than EDGE/GPRS/GSM, and the IPhone is supposed to be great with battery run time. I would guess that Apple will figure out how to get 3G to use less power and still be 100% functional. And to your statement about 3rd party apps don't hurt? Look at the Treo. Most of its problems are because of crappy third party apps. People just code anything they can, sell it to dumb people, and they QA it, and the developers put out updates. That is exactly what Apple is trying to prevent, Palm's stupid mistakes.

i would assume 3g uses a diffrent antenna because with 3g you can also have your regular voice connection on at the same time.

IE: on edge you cannot make calls at the same time because edge ties up your regular voice connection

on UMTS you can surf the net and make calls at the same time since they are on 2 diffrent frequencies (2.1GHz, 1.7GHz) so your phone probably has to power 2 seperate antennas.

i would sacrifice battery life for high speed if the battery was removeable, however in the iphone's case this is not possible

 

[lilnyc]

My dad has had quite a few smartphones over the years (from multiple brands) and I have to agree that they all look shoddy, especially when compared with the iPhone...

While his Nokia now has Google Earth and Google Maps, the inteerface is clunky and horrible...

I agree. My 8525 has video, 3G, Flash, etc., but it's ugly. I think that the new, sleeker designed phones have been influenced by the Razr's success and the excitement over the iPhone.

 

[aristobrat]

I think the number I heard was 22% market share for smartphones for WM. Not high, but I'd wager a guess that it's about a 4 way tie between WM, RIM, Palm and Symbian (I'd probably give RIM a bit more and Symbian a bit less) for market share, so not too bad.

It's a lot easier to say that with OSX's market share that the general public can care less about it. Has OSX even broken into double digits yet?

The point is that very few people care about Windows Mobile.

It's a hit with the gadgety crowd (like pr5owner), and it's forced upon some business people (when some companies make it their mobile standard, usually by adding some other enterprise mgmt software to it, like Good or Intellisync), but when's the last time you heard of regular people wanting to camp out overnight to make sure they got a Windows Mobile phone on launch day?

I think Windows Mobile will continue to do well in those markets, but when it comes to getting regular folks excited to have it, ... it's just not doing the job.

 

[bloodycape]

The point is that very few people care about Windows Mobile.

But when's the last time you heard of regular people wanting to camp out overnight to make sure they got a Windows Mobile phone on launch day?

That is kinda of due to the fact that some times people get the phones earlier, you can get it at a lot of place. I think it is easier to get a WM phone or any other phone. And I did hear when the HTC Mogul got released for Sprint this week there were people outside of sprint store waiting to get the phone as early as they can and see if they actually like it or not.

Did anyone ever camp out for the Razr or the upcoming Razr2?

 

[applehero]

WM5/6 is not XP or vista, its a completly diffrent OS, the most they share in common is like CTRL + C to copy and maybe the registry (has HKLM and HKCU)

my phone does freeze from time to time, but i also have 60x+ 3rd party applications, it takes 400MB on my 2GB microsd card for the applications alone (remember these are mobile applications, supposed to be small but it adds up) however, when i got my phone new it was shipped 2day fedex, i bought my microsd card at the same time as my tytn but it was shipped using EMS (10 days from HK vs 2) i couldnt install anything on my phone other than TCPMP and opera. the phone never froze once, it didnt even go slow. once i installed all those applications (took like 3 hours, thank God for SPB backup so i dont have to do it again) it slowed down a little bit due to the higher usage in ram. when i have like 10 things running at the same time, multitasking it does freeze maybe once a week.

using a MBP and a mac mini at work, i can say those things do not like running more than 10 programs, i always get the pinwheel of death, ive reimage the macmini 2x now becuase when you uninstall and reinstall applications the OS gets totally screwed up.

I never said WM5/6 was Vista. If you READ the post, you will see that OS X on iPhone was being labeled as OS X mobile and being compared to WM. It has been WELL DOCUMENTED that the iPhone runs OS X, not OS X mobile or whatever else you want to call it. I was making the analogy that OS X on iPhone vs OS X on MBP would be the same as comparing Vista Ultimate vs Vista Home. It is still the core OS, it just lacks the additional drivers, feature sets.

Please READ a post before you refute the contents.

 

[/dev/toaster]

Recently a co-worker got a WM phone. Of course, I laughed at the for getting a replacement phone now rather then wait for an iPhone.

After having the phone only a few hours, she got her first call. Guess what happened ? It crashed. Second call, same thing. After a few weeks, it has crashed multiple times per day and she wants to smash the damn thing.

WM is the last OS on the planet I would consider using for a phone. Hell, Windows is the last OS on the planet I would consider using for anything at all. Lets face it, its a joke.

 

[yg17]

Lets face it, its a joke.

Not a joke for me, mine is by far the best phone I've had. No problems at all. Just like people here have terrible experiences with OSX doing crap like that, a few may have problems with WM doing something like that. Could be something wrong with the phone itself

 

[/dev/toaster]

Not a joke for me, mine is by far the best phone I've had. No problems at all. Just like people here have terrible experiences with OSX doing crap like that, a few may have problems with WM doing something like that. Could be something wrong with the phone itself

Maybe you got lucky. Grab any WM user off the street and I am willing to bet most of them will curse the device to you. We have quite a number of these at work that have the same trouble.

Hell, my Treo 700p is just as unstable. No 3rd party software, and I have had it replaced 5 times now. This is not very uncommon.

Most phones in the market are churned out, the companies really don't care about stability or making a quality product. Lets face it, MS is not known for being interested in creating stable or secure products. They are only interested on how quick they can steal idea x, get it to market and increase their bottom line. That is it, cut and dry.

 

[yg17]

Maybe you got lucky. Grab any WM user off the street and I am willing to bet most of them will curse the device to you. We have quite a number of these at work that have the same trouble.

Everyone I know with a WM phone is completely happy with it (in fact, one of the reasons I got one). One of them is an Apple guy like us too...

 

[bloodycape]

Not a joke for me, mine is by far the best phone I've had. No problems at all. Just like people here have terrible experiences with OSX doing crap like that, a few may have problems with WM doing something like that. Could be something wrong with the phone itself

I am in the same boat with you. Only real problem i had with my phone was the lack of memory but that more due to the hardware and the recpetion was not the best. Both issues which are minor to me have been fixed with a replacement phone for free. I doubt we would see AT&T doing that for the iPhone.