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iPhone-optimized web app (demo)
- Thread starter neven
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I haven't been able to get through to the site yet, but doesn't this kinda go against the grain of Apple's "not a mobile version of the internet"? 
It's kind of contradictory of Apple to say 'the iPhone uses the full internet, not a mobile version. But we hope people will create lots of iPhone specific pages'.
It's kind of contradictory of Apple to say 'the iPhone uses the full internet, not a mobile version. But we hope people will create lots of iPhone specific pages'.
very cool. would one be able to save the webapp files (not just the cookies with the data) to the iphone and load it locally so as to not have to be connected online to use it? (pardon me if that's already been answered; i read the thread and didn't see it brought up)
Very, very cool app! Nice work. This is something I would definitely use (if I could afford an iPhone! maybe 2nd or 3rd gen...)
I'm sure there's no way to include everything, which is why the "Type it in..." feature is great. But here are a few suggestions, which you are welcome to take or discard as you will.
Cereal! (this is a big one for me)
Yogurt
Bagels
Maybe baking supplies would be its own category: (Flour, Sugar, Salt, Oil, Spices, etc.)
Laundry Detergent
Deodorant
Feminine Products
Cosmetics
Baby Food/Diapers/etc.
Pet Food
Trash Bags
Pharmacy category (Vitamins, Aspirin, Prescriptions, Band-aids, etc.)
I'm sure there's no way to include everything, which is why the "Type it in..." feature is great. But here are a few suggestions, which you are welcome to take or discard as you will.
Cereal! (this is a big one for me)
Yogurt
Bagels
Maybe baking supplies would be its own category: (Flour, Sugar, Salt, Oil, Spices, etc.)
Laundry Detergent
Deodorant
Feminine Products
Cosmetics
Baby Food/Diapers/etc.
Pet Food
Trash Bags
Pharmacy category (Vitamins, Aspirin, Prescriptions, Band-aids, etc.)
Movie iPhone Ap
Yeah, a find Movie and theater ap.
I'd like to be able to see what's playing at a given time, let me read a synopsis and view a trailer, find the nearest theater (using google maps) and buy the tickets online.
Or,
Where's the nearest gas station and what is the price of gas there.
Yeah, a find Movie and theater ap.
I'd like to be able to see what's playing at a given time, let me read a synopsis and view a trailer, find the nearest theater (using google maps) and buy the tickets online.
Or,
Where's the nearest gas station and what is the price of gas there.
Nice, but...
Anybody who thinks this is a good idea has obviously no experience dealing with Cingular's EDGE network. Yes, this is a "smartphone", and that's exactly why processing *everything* remotely makes no sense at all, especially when the data connection is so poor. It's a brilliant way to go when the data has to live remotely, for instance for a collaborative application or for map data.
But for very simple applications that have no reason to access the network connection other than an arbitrary diktat, it's just silly. Then again, this little "Snap!" thing has potential if turned into a collaborative app (the whole family could have access to a common shopping list, for instance, and everybody would be able to find out in real time who has already bought what).
Anybody who thinks this is a good idea has obviously no experience dealing with Cingular's EDGE network. Yes, this is a "smartphone", and that's exactly why processing *everything* remotely makes no sense at all, especially when the data connection is so poor. It's a brilliant way to go when the data has to live remotely, for instance for a collaborative application or for map data.
But for very simple applications that have no reason to access the network connection other than an arbitrary diktat, it's just silly. Then again, this little "Snap!" thing has potential if turned into a collaborative app (the whole family could have access to a common shopping list, for instance, and everybody would be able to find out in real time who has already bought what).
Outstanding job. Clean, simple and very elegant. This is a very handy little widget and I hope to see more from you.
So.....if I am understanding how this works.....web-based widgets will be stored as bookmarks within Safari?
So.....if I am understanding how this works.....web-based widgets will be stored as bookmarks within Safari?
you might not be thinking correctly.....
iphone has no file explorer to browse files. You wont be able to save downloads. You can bookmark iphone apps someway(highly unlikely they'll install). You think you can watch quicktime movies in safari....... or even save email attachments localy.... think again.
The only way to view audio/video/apps on iphone will either be in itunes or safari, I guruntee you CAN NOT download files, listen to audio in safari, watch video in safari, or pix msg.
ps. The fact that flash player 7 is on my 4yo Avx-6600 and not iPhone amazes me.... unless adobe releases it....., which they can't because you can't develop for the phone due to no sdk not forgetting the fact you cant install them even if you could make them.
sorry for the tone, but i think everybody's really dissappointed and the complaints are justified for that price. and for those that say "its not out yet" um what does that have to do with what it is?
I'm still going to camp out for it, but iphone is not at all what it could be.
This grocery list app will be the first one bookmarked
UPDATE: The only reasons I'm geting an iPhone? Faith in future software updates(can't update my pda-phone to WM6) and my Verizon contract ends the 30th.
iphone has no file explorer to browse files. You wont be able to save downloads. You can bookmark iphone apps someway(highly unlikely they'll install). You think you can watch quicktime movies in safari....... or even save email attachments localy.... think again.
The only way to view audio/video/apps on iphone will either be in itunes or safari, I guruntee you CAN NOT download files, listen to audio in safari, watch video in safari, or pix msg.
ps. The fact that flash player 7 is on my 4yo Avx-6600 and not iPhone amazes me.... unless adobe releases it....., which they can't because you can't develop for the phone due to no sdk
not forgetting the fact you cant install them even if you could make them. sorry for the tone, but i think everybody's really dissappointed and the complaints are justified for that price. and for those that say "its not out yet" um what does that have to do with what it is?
I'm still going to camp out for it, but iphone is not at all what it could be.
This grocery list app will be the first one bookmarked
UPDATE: The only reasons I'm geting an iPhone? Faith in future software updates(can't update my pda-phone to WM6) and my Verizon contract ends the 30th.
Well Done
Neven,
I was on train reading about your new app on my Sidekick. I just took the opportunity to give it a test drive when I got to work. Color me impressed.
Neven,
I was on train reading about your new app on my Sidekick. I just took the opportunity to give it a test drive when I got to work. Color me impressed.
I know it's a pipe dream but...
It'd be great if the iPhone could keep some of these apps in cache and have a folder (the 12th icon) that had widgets. You open that folder and there's a list of all your Safari based widgets that are still contained only in safari's cache. This would keep you from being screwed when bringing up a widget in a very large supermarket where you get no reception or for those millions of people who live and/or go places that you don't get reception.
Hopefully apple will eventually figure this out as the best way to do this since they won't allow you to put apps directly on the iPhone.
But like I said - probably a pipe dream
It'd be great if the iPhone could keep some of these apps in cache and have a folder (the 12th icon) that had widgets. You open that folder and there's a list of all your Safari based widgets that are still contained only in safari's cache. This would keep you from being screwed when bringing up a widget in a very large supermarket where you get no reception or for those millions of people who live and/or go places that you don't get reception.
Hopefully apple will eventually figure this out as the best way to do this since they won't allow you to put apps directly on the iPhone.
But like I said - probably a pipe dream
WAIT!!!! What if my supermarket doesn't have a mobile signal!!!! AHHHH!!!
It would be smart if these mobile web apps could run locally. Like you download a package that can be stored on the phone rather than run via the internet.
Just sayin!
It would be smart if these mobile web apps could run locally. Like you download a package that can be stored on the phone rather than run via the internet.
Just sayin!
It doesn't have to be hard for the user - look at how gmail operates with a partially composed message. A cookie logs me into the site invisibly, and it automatically restores the draft message into the composition buffer. No muss, no fuss.
Plus, there are all sort of revenue models you can hang on this thing if you have accounts, from supplying coupons to other customer loyalty models.
yeah, its very lame that as of now, you can't download locally, it really limits the iphone, i'm disappointed w/ apple
yeah, i can't believe how poorly Apple is playing this widget mess. First off, since this thread is related to a sample web widget that was developed I should say "cool, looks good. I like it." But now i can rant about why this thread is even necessary. Widgets that have to access the network to function are just not practical on a phone. If Apple is not going to support actual third party development of widgets on the iphone then they shouldn't market this Safari alternative as an exciting "feature".
I don't blame Apple at all for wanting to lock up the iphone for a while, at least until the initial bugs are worked out. The last thing they need are a bunch of third party apps on the loose while they are trying to sort out all the pitfalls in V1.0. But the way they should have approached this is to explain that Apple will continue to develop approved widgets
(and/or other software updates) for the iphone (for which they have already indicated through the accounting implications of spreading the revenue out over 24 months) and making them available for free. And that they will work on a standard developers kit for third party apps starting in 2008. At least that's how i would have approached it.
This Safari business just aint cutting it. Waiting on v2.0.
...Wishing they would just go back to focusing on their CORE business -- the Mac.
I don't blame Apple at all for wanting to lock up the iphone for a while, at least until the initial bugs are worked out. The last thing they need are a bunch of third party apps on the loose while they are trying to sort out all the pitfalls in V1.0. But the way they should have approached this is to explain that Apple will continue to develop approved widgets
(and/or other software updates) for the iphone (for which they have already indicated through the accounting implications of spreading the revenue out over 24 months) and making them available for free. And that they will work on a standard developers kit for third party apps starting in 2008. At least that's how i would have approached it.
This Safari business just aint cutting it. Waiting on v2.0.
...Wishing they would just go back to focusing on their CORE business -- the Mac.
a few suggestions
Hi Neven, great start. You had a good idea, and acted on it. We should all be so motivated. I'd like to suggest an alternative to your list above.
Backstory: My father's a retired accountant, so he's meticulous--some would say obsessive--about lists. When I was young he typed up a list of all the items he ever got at the supermarket, with a box in front of each so he could check the ones he needed that week (in those days you typed left-bracket right-bracket like this [] to make a box). He organized them by categories, and then further by the sequence in which those categories appeared on the shelves as he walked through his supermarket! The list fit on one page. He made a bunch of copies of his list, and used one per week. Items could be checked over several days, as the need for them was noted, and when it was time to go to the store the list was ready and tailored for an efficient food-shopping experience.
The list served particularly well when my mom was hospitalized for a year and dad had to run a household, care for an infant daughter, and keep his job.
So what's to learn from him?
1. Shopping lists are personal.
Some posters have noted their desire for a more vegetarian orientation, for example. Others will want to remind themselves of the brand or size of a product they prefer to get. My dad's list was his list. Your type-in function allows that personalization: the question is how it's best utilized.
2. Shopping lists need to be comprehensive.
It's four decades since my dad typed his list, but I think your project could best serve users if it emulated his approach, to develop a personalized list of all the items the user ever purchases at the grocery. Using the app then requires the user to simply access it at any time during the week, click on items as the need for them is noted (no new entry necessary) and then make a final sweep of the pantry and frig before leaving for the store. Note that with this procedure even if you're out and have failed to make that final check, but find yourself driving past the grocery and remembering you need milk, you'll have a reasonably current list with you and won't end up at home afterwards thinking, "s**t, i needed toilet paper, too." And if you're in the store and try something new, you can add it to your iPhone OneTrip list on the spot.
3. It's the first column of OneTrip that counts.
The end product is the shopping list and that's where the emphasis should be. I see two ways OneTrip could achieve that. The first is if the comprehensive, personalized list is built during set-up to be the first column, and thereafter the user simply scans down it to see what's checked, and thus needed. Alternately, as the user selects items in a comprehensive list in column two, those items move to create the week's contents of column one. In this case, everything in column one is a needed item, rather than only those items that have been checked. I prefer this latter approach: as the week proceeds, column one grows, and is your shopping list. But column two remains your pool of possibilities.
4. Categories may need to be re-thought.
They could be expanded greatly to suggest many more possibilities for first-time users during setup. They could be imposed on the "comprehensive" list I'm proposing, so that it doesn't become unwieldy. Better yet, perhaps there's a way to weight the elements of the list so that those that are selected most frequently (or always?) move not just to the top of the list, but to a special category on the comlprehensive list, similar to the Finder's "recent folders" category. A user could quickly scan the contents of that category and choose a "select all" button, or un-check just a few that aren't needed at the moment and then select the category, quickly moving onto the final list a large number of staples with minimal input.
My dad's 86 now. He gave up his computer last year when he was exhausted by the spam and viruses choking his Windows machine (I know, we should have gotten him a mac, and that's a different story). But your OneTrip app (applet?) would impress him as a way computers could improve on the methods he developed decades ago. Imagine: in those pre-word processor days, he had to retype the whole list just to add an item in its appropriate section. Now, editing's immediate, and the list is always at hand. A better shopping list! Like the proverbial better moustrap, that is progress. Well done.
peace
terry
Hi Neven, great start. You had a good idea, and acted on it. We should all be so motivated. I'd like to suggest an alternative to your list above.
Backstory: My father's a retired accountant, so he's meticulous--some would say obsessive--about lists. When I was young he typed up a list of all the items he ever got at the supermarket, with a box in front of each so he could check the ones he needed that week (in those days you typed left-bracket right-bracket like this [] to make a box). He organized them by categories, and then further by the sequence in which those categories appeared on the shelves as he walked through his supermarket! The list fit on one page. He made a bunch of copies of his list, and used one per week. Items could be checked over several days, as the need for them was noted, and when it was time to go to the store the list was ready and tailored for an efficient food-shopping experience.
The list served particularly well when my mom was hospitalized for a year and dad had to run a household, care for an infant daughter, and keep his job.
So what's to learn from him?
1. Shopping lists are personal.
Some posters have noted their desire for a more vegetarian orientation, for example. Others will want to remind themselves of the brand or size of a product they prefer to get. My dad's list was his list. Your type-in function allows that personalization: the question is how it's best utilized.
2. Shopping lists need to be comprehensive.
It's four decades since my dad typed his list, but I think your project could best serve users if it emulated his approach, to develop a personalized list of all the items the user ever purchases at the grocery. Using the app then requires the user to simply access it at any time during the week, click on items as the need for them is noted (no new entry necessary) and then make a final sweep of the pantry and frig before leaving for the store. Note that with this procedure even if you're out and have failed to make that final check, but find yourself driving past the grocery and remembering you need milk, you'll have a reasonably current list with you and won't end up at home afterwards thinking, "s**t, i needed toilet paper, too." And if you're in the store and try something new, you can add it to your iPhone OneTrip list on the spot.
3. It's the first column of OneTrip that counts.
The end product is the shopping list and that's where the emphasis should be. I see two ways OneTrip could achieve that. The first is if the comprehensive, personalized list is built during set-up to be the first column, and thereafter the user simply scans down it to see what's checked, and thus needed. Alternately, as the user selects items in a comprehensive list in column two, those items move to create the week's contents of column one. In this case, everything in column one is a needed item, rather than only those items that have been checked. I prefer this latter approach: as the week proceeds, column one grows, and is your shopping list. But column two remains your pool of possibilities.
4. Categories may need to be re-thought.
They could be expanded greatly to suggest many more possibilities for first-time users during setup. They could be imposed on the "comprehensive" list I'm proposing, so that it doesn't become unwieldy. Better yet, perhaps there's a way to weight the elements of the list so that those that are selected most frequently (or always?) move not just to the top of the list, but to a special category on the comlprehensive list, similar to the Finder's "recent folders" category. A user could quickly scan the contents of that category and choose a "select all" button, or un-check just a few that aren't needed at the moment and then select the category, quickly moving onto the final list a large number of staples with minimal input.
My dad's 86 now. He gave up his computer last year when he was exhausted by the spam and viruses choking his Windows machine (I know, we should have gotten him a mac, and that's a different story). But your OneTrip app (applet?) would impress him as a way computers could improve on the methods he developed decades ago. Imagine: in those pre-word processor days, he had to retype the whole list just to add an item in its appropriate section. Now, editing's immediate, and the list is always at hand. A better shopping list! Like the proverbial better moustrap, that is progress. Well done.
peace
terry
Exactly. And even more.
What about the EDGE-Network services themselves?
A real killer-app smartphone needs an sdk that lets 3rd party developer access the Localization-API.
Only be sending this information to those remote services will yield to a new dimension.
Imagine walking through the city with the iPhone sending Twitter messages without changing your location manually all the time.
Therefore the anouncement of Steve was utterly disappointing for me.
If you mean instead of a paper notepad...
- I don't always have one on me. Pretty much the only things I can guarantee to have on me are my phone, wallet, and keys.
If you mean instead of iPhone's Notes feature...
- You can add, check off, and remove items with one click
And these go for both:
- It's less work to click a few (common) items than to write them down or type them in
- They'll be sorted by category
- When picking from a list, you might see things you wouldn't have thought to write down. "Oh yeah, I also need garlic."
- It's cooler
While the "shopping list" app is a nice example, how many of us have either seen or done ourselves, use a cell phone to call home and say, "honey, I'm at the market, look in the firdge, freezer, pantry and cupboard and tell me what we need!" Kinda defeats the purpose of a shopping list when you have the cell phone already in hand, for this app at least. Not saying all "call" home but it does seem to be a growing trend, in my local markets at least.
But still a cool app. Good Job!
Website's not working for me, for whatever reason.
I do echo the sentiment that 'online apps', while better than nothing, are not the best solution. I don't think I will have an iPhone (not for the first few years anyway) but I do carry a Palm PDA, and if I wanted a shopping list app, I would want one I could download and run on the PDA. I shouldn't have to find an internet connection (and pay for byte usage) just to remember what kind of cereal I was going to buy.
I do echo the sentiment that 'online apps', while better than nothing, are not the best solution. I don't think I will have an iPhone (not for the first few years anyway) but I do carry a Palm PDA, and if I wanted a shopping list app, I would want one I could download and run on the PDA. I shouldn't have to find an internet connection (and pay for byte usage) just to remember what kind of cereal I was going to buy.
It looks nice, but ...
The app goods great but it seems to be done in JavaScript and I thought the iPhone would not work with JavaScript.
The app goods great but it seems to be done in JavaScript and I thought the iPhone would not work with JavaScript.
I doubt that iPhone apps will just be a web page that you go to. Steve said that there will be ways to write web apps, not "create specific iPhone webpages." There is no reason that apple can't develop a simple interface for users to upload and manage iPhone apps that are based on html code. Remeber, you can open up web pages locally, they don't have to be read of the internet.
I have used a number of apps that were html based and stored on my local computer. This is probably what Steve had in mind. Anything else would not be as good of a user experience.
I have used a number of apps that were html based and stored on my local computer. This is probably what Steve had in mind. Anything else would not be as good of a user experience.
Great idea ... now make it list by store, in order. I can't till you how many time I've had to hike across these super stores because I missed an item at the bottom of the list.