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Iphone users who say Flash is dying, or useless, or crappy software...

iphone.aggie said:
I know what you're saying, but in the meantime we get the blue square. It's just friggin' annoying. Now, if you say we're going to have these capabilities of html 5 in a few months, then fine, but I doubt it'll happen that fast, right? So, in the meantime, we open sites and can't use them. For example, I can't log into the Panera site when I'm eating there, since I suppose it is flash.
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What I encourage you to do is email those websites and ask that they provide a flash free version. A website shouldn't rely on Flash for navigation. This is a whole dotcom era argument and companies still haven't figured out that it's a bad thing.

I think a lot of the statistics floating around about how prevalent the iPhone is in advertising revenue from mobile devices is putting major sites in the "oh crap, we need to not include flash and get it out there another way or we're losing money."

The iPhone is dominating the ad views when it comes to mobile devices. And that is bad news for Adobe. Since I think outside of Youtube and some game sites, Flash is used primarily for advertising. THAT is why Adobe is pushing so hard for the mobile version to be adopted. They don't get those advertising people they start losing a lot of business.
 
MattWylde said:
You must not have read very well. Adobe has clearly stated that they've addressed the battery drain issue:

"The browser-based runtime leverages the power of the Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) for accelerated video and graphics while conserving battery life and minimizing resource utilization."
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200910/100509AFPforMobileDevicesandPCs.html <---here's the link to the entire article

Plus, how hard would it be for Safari to have a toggle switch to turn flash on and off as you desire, just like it does with downloadable images (or the phone itself with bluetooth, 3G, and wifi). That would give us the ability to browse any website without getting the annoying "blue box".

There is absolutely no reason why Apple shouldn't allow this capability on the iPhone. It blows my mind that some of you people side with them on this. How can you be happy with a web-browser on your phone that only works on about half of the internet pages? Flash is very widely used. This is like Apple coming out with a new iPod and telling you that it isn't compatible with .mp3 files.
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Oddly enough the same core of webkit resides on just about every S60 Nokia smartphone for the past 5yrs and the ability to turn off Flash Lite is there. with a slower CPU and no video decoding seperate chip, my old E71 displayed sites using Flash 9. yes it was Very slow yet the newest models load and execute sites very quickly using Flash Lite 3.1: E55, E52, E72 coming soon, and N86. Actually Nokia had Apple make webkit for them about 6yrs back.

If it's fast and doesn't lower browser cache then I'd like to have it. But I'd rather have a method to jump to the top/bottom of a page with maddly swiping to do so. Also anyone try to respond to a quoted post on the iPhone on these forums get annoyed with no post window scroll bar ????!!!!!
 
Prom1 said:
Also anyone try to respond to a quoted post on the iPhone on these forums get annoyed with no post window scroll bar ????!!!!!
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I don't post much on forums on my iPhone. But I believe you can use two fingers to scroll inside a text view. Try it out and let us know if it works. I could've sworn I had used it before.

Edit: tried it myself. Sadly doesn't work as I expected. Seems to pull up the copy/paste stuff every time. Sorry.
 
Prom1 said:
Oddly enough the same core of webkit resides on just about every S60 Nokia smartphone for the past 5yrs and the ability to turn off Flash Lite is there. with a slower CPU and no video decoding seperate chip, my old E71 displayed sites using Flash 9. yes it was Very slow yet the newest models load and execute sites very quickly using Flash Lite 3.1: E55, E52, E72 coming soon, and N86. Actually Nokia had Apple make webkit for them about 6yrs back.

If it's fast and doesn't lower browser cache then I'd like to have it. But I'd rather have a method to jump to the top/bottom of a page with maddly swiping to do so. Also anyone try to respond to a quoted post on the iPhone on these forums get annoyed with no post window scroll bar ????!!!!!
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Use safariplus

NVM, misread your post. Yes, that is pretty annoying, but you have to use two fingers. It's hit or miss to get it to work right.
 
not-this-again.jpg
 
The problem isn't whether FLASH is good or bad.

The iPhone is NOT a battelground for Adobe vs. Apple, Flash vs. html5,
or ads vs. flash-free sites, or whether sites should become iPhone friendly.

The problem is that we pay a premium for a high-power, mobile internet phone;
that its company can't make it display a HUGE amount of web content that I pay a premium for is unacceptable.

Inasmuch as this is annoying, problematic, and extremely limiting-- it is simply childish for us iPhone users to simply look away and say we wouldn't want FLASH anyways. I mean, really? We wouldn't want software that runs a huge amount of websites? we are MILLIONS of users collectively visiting MILLIONS of websites, daily. This means that this has happened to iPhone users MILLIONS of times.
If you want to pretend that's how you want it, then... my only answer is... you are a fox and flash is sour grapes.

If I recall correctly, the wallpaper for my fresh and new iPhone was that of a the world. I'm sure apple was trying to tell me the world was now in the palm of my hand, open to me. It would be a shame if apple meant to say "the world in your palm, but only if they agree with how we do things and if we're cool with their language."
 
Once again, how soon people forget

The irony is that most people expected Flash to be supported when the iPhone first came out.

Partly because Mossberg said Apple had told him so, and partly because Apple had used the NY Times front page as a demo of how Safari showed the "real internet"... complete with an image where Flash video would normally show up.

Moreover, we all remember when later on, Apple again showed "the real internet" via that National Geographic home page... with an image where a Flash menu was supposed to be.

Both times, viewers got excited. Both times, it turned out that Apple wanted to use those sites to show off, but had cheated and placed a static image on a snapshot of those sites, so that people wouldn't know that the iPhone was missing out because of no Flash.

It's sad that Apple used major sites like those for demos, but felt the need to edit the actual page so the iPhone would look better. If they don't want to support Flash, that's fine. But by golly, don't do a 1984-ish edit of real life to hide what people would miss.
 
I am tempted to book mark this tread so if iPhone ever supports flash I can link it back to people bitching about it saying no and why it is so great flash is not on the iPhone.
 
According to people on here, the following things are dying:

Flash
optical media
hard disk drives
broadcast TV
newspapers
magazines
Sprint

Those are just what I can recall off the top of my head. I don't see any of them going away any time soon.

Flash is in EVERYTHING on the Web and has Adobe behind it. When Adobe adopts some non-proprietary thing to replace Flash, then it'll die.

Optical media is going nowhere because people keep buying better televisions. Do you really want to buy one of those Samsung LED TVs that runs at 240Hz and play some compressed video on it? No, you buy a friggin' Blu-ray Disc player for close to $100 now (I've seen a Sony for $129, Sharp for $99). CDs live because they're so darn cheap and easy ways to back stuff up or share data, not to mention most people still buy their music -- uncompressed -- on CDs. Digital music downloads thrive because we can get songs quickly and most people value portability over extreme sound quality.

I swear I've seen someone preach that HDDs are dead because of SSDs, which only cost at least double the amount per gigabyte and don't exist in capacities above 256GB. Disks may be near death in all ultramobile devices (phones, iPods, etc.), but they have plenty of life left in portable PCs.

TV, newspapers and magazines continually get obituaries from laypeople, but they're not going anywhere. If Hulu were going to kill the broadcast channels that own it (hello! McFly!), they would either kill it or charge you for it. If you want to know what a world without big corporations producing expensive TV shows would look like, imagine nothing but YouTube videos of a panda sneezing and some dude busting his butt while skateboarding. The same goes for newspapers and magazines. Do you think most bloggers actually break news? Nooooooo. Oh, some Web source may get a big one every now and then, but are they going to cover your local stuff? Doubtful. Newspapers may keep going away from paper, but before that you're going to start paying for content online. My peeps are getting ready to actually charge for the crap we do!
 
Hey all you Flash haters, and non-out-of the-box thinkers..

Did you know that some of your favorite games currently available in the App store were created in Flash? Yes, that's right. Flash CS5 will support native iPhone applications! Browser Schmowzer.

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcs5/appsfor_iphone/

Who cares if Flash loses web-share to other emerging technologies. Flash has its place in the world and ain't going nowhere.
 
Wirelessly posted (Iphone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7C144 Safari/528.16)

Slip Jigs said:
Hey all you Flash haters, and non-out-of the-box thinkers..

Did you know that some of your favorite games currently available in the App store were created in Flash? Yes, that's right. Flash CS5 will support native iPhone applications! Browser Schmowzer.

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcs5/appsfor_iphone/

Who cares if Flash loses web-share to other emerging technologies. Flash has its place in the world and ain't going nowhere.
Click to expand...

Its not going to go anywhere. The iphone must evolve to support flash... As the websites that use it, as well as the computers that support it, presently, far outnumber iphone users.
 
I want Flash for one reason - Webkinz World. Enough said. Flash or a Webkinz World iPhone App :)
 
IronLogik said:
.

Here's why Flash is bad. Why any non-open standard is bad. No one but Adobe can make a Flash plugin. Which means that you are at the mercy of Adobe to provide support, optimization and updates. With open standards like HTML 5 and H.264 anyone can use it. It can be extended and issues can be addressed without going through another company like Adobe. It means you can (in theory) view a page on one browser, and see it exactly the same on another. What you take for granted everyday when viewing a website is the result of open standards. Flash is not open.
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I fail to see how this is a valid argument. So according to your theory, all smartphones including the Iphone should dump their YouTube plugins because they would all be at the mercy of Google (who bought it). Last time I checked if there were any issues with youtube you would have to go through Google because it's not an open proprietary system.

Do you see the flaw in your logic?
 
Michael CM1 said:
According to people on here, the following things are dying:

Flash
optical media
hard disk drives
broadcast TV
newspapers
magazines
Sprint
Click to expand...

:D

Don't miss Microsoft and Windows off your list - theirs appears to be a slow, lingering death, but I'm assured by many experts on here that they'll be gone by Christmas.
 
With so many of the anti-Flash arguments on here, you'd think Flash was a brand new technology about to be released that people were trying to resist.

But it's not! Flash has been here ages and is an intrinsic part of viewing the web, despite it's many negatives, whether you like it or not. Purposely avoiding Flash-based sites is cutting off your nose to spite your face; you lose a chunk of the Internet and no-one else cares. Even if you avoid retail sites that use Flash, they maybe lose a sale but you end up buying from a non-Flash site thats costs more? I just don't understand that.

So, flash is evil, it's a memory hog, it's badly written. So what? Does it damage your Mac/iPhone? No. So, it drains the battery on your iPhone? How long are you going to be looking at a Flash-based page for? If you're playing Flash-based online games, there are many normal games that will suck at your battery. Besides, as their is no Flash for the iPhone yet, how does anyone know how it will perform on this platform?

Most of the "bad stuff" about Flash is behind the scenes. OK, it's maxing out your processor. But apart from being an elitist nerd, does that actually matter? Yes, sometimes Flash crashes. But sometimes cars break down. Are you going to boycott driving for that reason?

Give me Flash. I'll take it with all its imperfections. If I don't want to use it, I won't. Just give me that option please Apple.
 
crisg said:
Wirelessly posted (Iphone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7C144 Safari/528.16)



Thank you for your response, as it illustrates my point exactly. If you havent already, please read the wikipedia link.
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No, it doesn't.

You're saying we're trying to rationalize why we don't want Flash on the iPhone even though Flash is super awesome and we secretly do want it. This is not the case. Flash sucks. Ask any web developer how much they like Flash.

Do you even know what HTML5 is?
 
i dont know what sites you guys are going to, but i've had my iphone since first gen launch, and only rarely do i come up with sites in need of flash for a video. maybe 5 times, at most, in the 2.5 years i've been a user
 
Let's make a distinction here - we want to be able to VIEW Flash on our iPhones, we're not going to start creating more evil Flash content. I think most of the stuff on TV these days is utter crap, and perhaps broadcast TV is an outdated medium, but I don't blame my TV for that.

So what's the discussion here? Is it whether Flash is a good or bad way of creating web content, or is it should we be able to view this content on our iPhones?
 
crisg said:
...are all just crying "sour grapes."
/rant.
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Yeah, I think that's true to a point.

While Flash is non-existant on the iPhone (at least as a safari plugin) and its poor performance (on the mac) leads a lot of people to complain. The fact is that many sites use flash and the inability of the iphone to handle those sites is a pain.

Personally I don't miss it, because the majority of those sites tend to abuse flash. Take vajacases.com I love there cases, a tad pricey but handmade and are high quality. navigating around the site and selecting a case is a royal pain because the whole website is flash. I hate dealing with that.
 
There is not a single reason why anyone should support Apple on not having flash. If mobiles from all the other companies can support it, the iPhone could also. This will leave the "world's most advanced mobile browser" lagging behind the competition. I am tired of following a link and getting a stupid blue box. And to those saying HTML5 is better, yes it is, but that is pointless because that is not widely used. Flash is.
 
Flash is a huge loophole in Apple's app-aproval concept.

If they allow Flash, all their rules and standards for the app store instantly become pointless.

That's it. Game over. Never gonna happen.
 
I used to think it was necessary....but I don't want to sacrifice battery life for it when I've only encountered 3-5 sites that required it.

More and more sites are developing mobile sites nowadays anyway.
 
Small White Car said:
If they allow Flash, all their rules and standards for the app store instantly become pointless.
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Those rules and standards are quite absurd in the first place. I may not understand the details of why the flash plug-in would be different then other apps, but I do know that the approval process for applications is lame and causes more problems then it really should
 
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