That is a speculation.
but... Let's say someone from Apple came to you and told you that for the price of the 8GB/256GB model they would now sell you the 16GB/512GB version. Would you be happy about it or would you decline?
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Is 8GB of RAM Enough for MacBook Pro?
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but... Let's say someone from Apple came to you and told you that for the price of the 8GB/256GB model they would now sell you the 16GB/512GB version. Would you be happy about it or would you decline?
That is the question. Nobody can forecast whether or not they’ll be happy with any product in 5+ years 8GB, 12GB, or 16GB. All we can do is buy a product that satisfies us today. If at any point you’re not happy with a product, most people just buy a different product they like better. Most people update their computer about every 5 years or less. I think 8GB RAM should be fine for plenty of people over that time period.
Not Apple but this is sort of related. Personally I think most of this AI stuff is overhyped and I don’t trust Micro$oft. But just in case here is some gasoline for this dumpster fire.
www.tomshardware.com
Microsoft sets 16GB default for RAM for AI PCs – machines will also need 40 TOPS of AI compute: Report
You might thank AI for raising the entry-level PC RAM quota.
As I said before, I don’t think that most people would decline (including me). But I don’t see any reason for Apple to do that in the first place, or to expect that and to argue that if Apple doesn’t do that they’re being “stingy” or “greedy”. And I said “I think”, that part of my comment is speculation, and I was totally upfront about that by saying “I think”.
Yes, I'd call you that because you're defending a trillion dollar company and projecting their message even without any incentive on your part. This entire thread isn't going to do anything other than tell Apple we're unsatisfied with their products. Yielding to facts won't be akin to you stabbing Apple in the back, it's telling them that their price gouging practices are unpopular.
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But if I’m just going to make the argument “but I think production costs are x, so it’s unfair to charge y for RAM upgrades”, then why can’t I just argue that base spec should be 32GB RAM with 1TB of storage? It’s a slippery slope. At the end of the day, every computer company sets a minimum RAM spec somewhere, and then charges for upgrades up from that. Several competitors charge more for RAM upgrades than Apple. More charge about the same.
THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THAT!!!!
For god's sake no one here is saying they can't do that.
However we do have the right to complain, and you seem to think it's wrong of us to do so. All your comments seem to suggest that we're being unreasonable in expressing our opinions.
Yes, you have the right to complain, I didn’t say you didn’t. But I also have the right to express my opinion and cite facts that seem to contradict some of the claims you’re making in the process. I think it is wrong for you to make accusations on motives that you can’t conclusively prove, and make claims like “8GB is only useful for basic tasks”.
Okay then, when will you start presenting these facts?
EDIT: You said you disagreed with my post... which part? Apple doesn't have the right to set their prices or that we don't have the right to complain?
I have. Other manufacturers charge more for RAM upgrades, so Apple’s pricing isn’t really “gouging” when you compare to competitors who are charging the same or more. Customer satisfaction is very high, and base model sales are also high. These are backed up by numbers I already linked to earlier in this discussion. And stores stock more of the base models than other configurations, so clearly they’re selling well. The narrative that “8GB isn’t enough” doesn’t seem to hold up when most costumers seem to think it is, otherwise they probably wouldn’t be buying them.
You started your comment with saying “Yes, I’d call you that” in reference to “brain-free users”. That’s clearly an insult…
The major stumbling block, besides the obvious, with Apple's RAM strategy is that BTO units in my territory are not available at discounted prices with 3rd parties such as Amazon. This means that by the time you upgrade them into the current millennium at Apple's MSRP, the cost comes perilously close to the next model up that is discounted elsewhere. Great, you might say...unless the next model up isn't available in the color you want. Everything about Apple these days is just hard work and involves some sort of compromise, conundrum or choice paralysis.
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Okay. I did that. For that I apologize.
What I should have said instead is that you sound to me like such a person.
Thus far you've dismissed most every argument against your claim and yet you still sound like an Apple apologist to me. You seem to post as though we are wrong for expressing our opinions and adhering to Apple's profit motive strategy as though everyone else should know better. Sorry but we still have the right to express our displeasure. If you're happy, then ignore our posts... don't attack them as though you think we don't have the right to complain.
EDIT: Note that this will help you as well, given that if Apple's present specs are pushed up beyond your needs... then logically a computer with lower specs will cost you and other consumers that much less.
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Again, you’re displeasure isn’t the issue I take, the arguments people have made in this thread such as “8GB is only enough for basic tasks”, “pro workflows can’t be done with 8GB” (aka, “8GB isn’t enough for pro workflows”), “Apple’s motivation in making 8GB models is greed”, “8GB computers won’t last”, “Macs should use upgradable RAM and SSDs”, “Apple’s gouging customers” and other such arguments that are just completely subjective, yet are being treated as truth statements.
PS, I forgive you, thank you for your apology. 👍🏻
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@Agincourt, why the laugh react at my comment about the insult you already apologized for? That makes no sense to me.
This is absolutely right. While Apple has every right to set their own prices, I likewise find myself unable to buy a new computer from them. What I want through Apple is too expensive for what it is... the MB Air 15 inch model upgraded to 16 GB RAM and 512 GB storage easily places this on par with the low-end MBP which has active cooling and many features not present on the Air.
Recently Best Buy offered a $300 discount on this very machine, except it didn't apply to the 16 GB RAM upgrade I wanted... thus I absolutely didn't want to pay even a good price for a bare bones model. If Best Buy cannot sell a new Apple computer without a steep discount that kinda defeats the notion that Apple knows its customers.
Dell also overcharges on RAM. They all do it. I was pricing an Alienware gaming rig and to go from 16GB to 32GB they charge anywhere from $150-300 depending on the model.
I was looking at the 13" Dell XPS laptops and the current models on sale with an i5 processor with 8GB of RAM (soldered) and 256GB SSD goes for $599. If I want 16GB of RAM that's an additional $200 but then I get an i7 CPU and a 512 SSD. That $200 bump is more reasonable as you get a better CPU, more RAM and a bigger SSD. However it's still $200 more. Price a Lenovo laptop, ThinkPad notebook or a Lenovo Legion gaming rig desktop or laptop and it jumps much higher in price when you want a little bit extra in either memory or storage.
The bottom line is, all these companies are just using creating up selling to get you to go with the very best specs as you keep pondering well, it's only $200 extra for this and I might as well just add this as well for another $200 and as you keep going you start to reason, damn i'm almost at the best spec'd machine.
I was looking at the 13" Dell XPS laptops and the current models on sale with an i5 processor with 8GB of RAM (soldered) and 256GB SSD goes for $599. If I want 16GB of RAM that's an additional $200 but then I get an i7 CPU and a 512 SSD. That $200 bump is more reasonable as you get a better CPU, more RAM and a bigger SSD. However it's still $200 more. Price a Lenovo laptop, ThinkPad notebook or a Lenovo Legion gaming rig desktop or laptop and it jumps much higher in price when you want a little bit extra in either memory or storage.
The bottom line is, all these companies are just using creating up selling to get you to go with the very best specs as you keep pondering well, it's only $200 extra for this and I might as well just add this as well for another $200 and as you keep going you start to reason, damn i'm almost at the best spec'd machine.
Okay so when they bake RAM into the computers they've essentially got a monopoly. Hence why we must urge our representatives to make such actions illegal. I'd gladly suffer a ~1 hour battery reduction if I have the option to upgrade my MBP with RAM modules and SSD's.
Not good for their business model. What works best for them is to reduce the life span of each computer and have us buy new ones more frequently.
Not good for their business model. What works best for them is to reduce the life span of each computer and have us buy new ones more frequently.
Just because you didn’t choose to buy the base spec at a discount doesn’t mean nobody else did. Lots of other people did buy it at the discounted price. One missed sale from someone who already seems heavily biased against the base spec in the first place doesn’t equal “Apple doesn’t know their customers”…
🤦🏼♂️. No, we shouldn’t be urging our representatives to force companies to make subpar products with lower battery runtime just so a niche few can feel better “upgrading” their computers… Let the free market decide. If most customers want upgradable RAM and storage, then I’m sure they’ll deliver that option. If most don’t, then other options will be offered that will have other benefits the majority of customers actually do want. If government gets involved, it’s almost certain they’ll royally mess things up, like dictate that companies must use DDR cards or something stupid like that that would limit future innovation…. And even on the rare chance they didn’t totally mess things up, that isn’t the place of government. But most customers seem happier with the advantages of the “non-upgradable” M-Series Macs, such as the higher performance, better temperatures, and unrivaled battery runtime. And no, I don’t think just 1 hour battery reduction is a realistic idea of the impact those kinds of changes would make, upgradable hardware would take up quite a lot of space that couldn’t be used for battery or other hardware such as the great sound system. Look at how much space RAM card slots took up in a Mid 2012 MacBook Pro. And then on top of that you’d have to have a slot for an M.2 drive, which takes up quite a lot more space than the current storage chips do. It just makes no sense to revert back to an older system without the same performance, battery runtime, efficiency, and slim chassis just to satisfy the whims of the very few who might even ever use the “upgradability”. Better to stick with the current system which is more modern, faster, more energy efficient, and slimmer…
Just move on to 16/512Gb and be done with it, that's what this discussion is all about.
Yes, you can survive with 8GB, but just because you can survive on let's say on windows machine from 2008 it doesn't mean you should aim to it as your new machine.
Ya, most of the comparable computers from competitors are charging around the same or higher for RAM upgrades, just as you observed. 👍🏻. Apple’s RAM pricing is actually pretty competitive compared to the competitors.
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That has been Apple’s business model since Apple II. They price their products higher than competitors while offering the allure of a special product. It’s the definition of a boutique product, selling few items, but doing so at a much higher price and achieving a higher profit for each sale. Apple has always been about selling few products for high profit. They’ve never been interested in the market of selling lots more products for a lower profit.
Apple is always been more like Rolex watches, and never like Casio or Timex.
For me that ends up meaning I still want apple products, but I just buy them a whole lot less frequently.
Using an 8GB M-Series Mac is really nothing like using a 2008 Windows machine… Plenty of people are happy with 8GB, I think there’s no reason for Apple to up the base spec at this point. And 8GB M-Series Macs actually do a lot, I use one for graphic design workloads with over 30 large files open at once, 3D modeling and sculpting in Blender, and several other things, all without it ever breaking a sweat.