Is anyone else a bit disappointed by AirPods Max?

[LeonPro]

The Sennheiser HE-1 doesn’t lack features that the competition offers. It actually offers more than the competition as it is a complete system where the DAC + amplifier and headphones are carefully designed to work with one an other without zero compromise.

I have heard many different headphones (including from Abyss, Susvara, SR-009, Utopia, ....), and the HE-1 is the best so far. And despite this, the Sennheiser HE-1 gets flack also.

Problem with the Airpods Max, it does not offer more than the competition at the higher price it offers, it offers less.

Similar to your thoughts on the APM, that's subjective as well on the HE 1. The Senns don't offer more than the competition because other competitors including Sennheiser themselves offer a complete system. You should know that if you really were into headphones. The only difference is that the HE 1 offers opulence. Which it does achieve.

So at $50,000 and not even being voted as the best audiophile headphone, it does offer less in terms of comfort and sound quality. Again that's subjective. Same as what you are expecting from a measly $550 wireless headphone to "out do" the competition when Apple isn't even trying to compete as well.

If they did want to compete, they would have priced the headphone at $350. If they wanted to compete with a desktop, they would have priced the Mac Pro at $3,000. It doesn't mean they delivered a better experience because, again, that's subjective. It just means they're delivering a DIFFERENT experience which only people baked into their ecosystem would appreciate.

 

[AppleRobert]

That “problem” of codecs is not a show stopper for a very very high percentage of music listeners.

Another thing I forgot the mention, most every wireless headphone I have listened to introduces hiss/white noise for noise cancelling. I do not hear that even when I am not listening to anything at the time and just wearing the APM. That is of very high importance to me as I listen to instrumental music at night at low levels and fall asleep. If I have to increase the volume to rid of hiss isn’t acceptable.

 

[UBS28]

Similar to your thoughts on the APM, that's subjective as well on the HE 1. The Senns don't offer more than the competition because other competitors including Sennheiser themselves offer a complete system. You should know that if you really were into headphones. The only difference is that the HE 1 offers opulence. Which it does achieve.

So at $50,000 and not even being voted as the best audiophile headphone, it does offer less in terms of comfort and sound quality. Again that's subjective. Same as what you are expecting from a measly $550 wireless headphone to "out do" the competition when Apple isn't even trying to compete as well.

If they did want to compete, they would have priced the headphone at $350. If they wanted to compete with a desktop, they would have priced the Mac Pro at $3,000. It doesn't mean they delivered a better experience because, again, that's subjective. It just means they're delivering a DIFFERENT experience which only people baked into their ecosystem would appreciate.

I said the HE-1 offers a complete system without zero-compromise. The competition of the HE-1 rely on 3rd party equipment to shine. Honestly, the Susvara with Hifiman their own $14000 amplifier was not that impressive, likewise for the SR-009 with their own Staxx amplifier. With the Sennheiser HE-1, you don’t have to rely on 3rd party equipment. I am not even sure if adding a Chord Dave to the HE-1 would improve it as it sounded fine as it is.

Apple might not think they do not compete against other wireless ANC headphones, but in my case they definetly do. If I have to work 10+ hours, I take the Bose QC35II. If I go outside and I expect a little bit of rain, I take the Bose NC 700 as it is water resistant. If I have a 1 hour break and it remains dry, I will take the Apple AirPods Max to go outside. If I have to go on a flight (not tested yet), I will probably take the Sony WH-1000XM3. For running, I take my Apple AirPods Pro. And so on ....

So I can see other iPhone users settling for a Bose or a Sony headphone instead of the APM for outside use + flights.

 

[LeonPro]

I said the HE-1 offers a complete system without zero-compromise. The competition of the HE-1 rely on 3rd party equipment to shine. Honestly, the Susvara with Hifiman their own $14000 amplifier was not that impressive, likewise as the SR-009 with their own Staxx amplifier. With the Sennheiser HE-1, you don’t have to rely on 3rd party equipment. I am not even sure if adding a Chord Dave to the HE-1 would improve it as it sounded fine as it is.

Apple might not think they do not compete against other wireless ANC headphones, but in my case they definetly do. If I have to work 10+ hours, I take the Bose QC35II. If I go outside and I expect a little bit of rain, I take the Bose NC 700 as it is water resistant. If I have a 1 hour break and it remains dry, I will take the Apple AirPods Max to go outside. If I have to go on a flight (not tested yet), I will probably take the Sony WH-1000XM3. And so on ....

You said: "The Sennheiser HE-1 doesn’t lack features that the competition offers. It actually offers more than the competition as it is a complete system where the DAC + amplifier and headphones are carefully designed to work with one an other without zero compromise."

And I said that's subjective especially at $50,000 what it didn't do for me in terms of comfort and sound quality that I could achieve with a HD820/HDV820 bundle also from Sennheiser offering a complete system similar to your subjective thoughts on what a measly $550 wireless headphone should be able to perform for YOU the way it performed for your other plastic headphones.

 

[EntropyQ3]

The Sennheiser HE-1 doesn’t lack features that the competition offers. It actually offers more than the competition as it is a complete system where the DAC + amplifier and headphones are carefully designed to work with one an other without zero compromise.

I have heard many different headphones (including from Abyss, Susvara, SR-009, Utopia, ....), and the HE-1 is the best so far. And despite this, the Sennheiser HE-1 gets flack also.

One issue with all headphone reviews is that they are pretty much inherently subjective. It's effectively impossible to set up a credible ABX testing situation. Even blind you can feel what phones you're using.

And sensitivity to weight, shape of head and thus seal and pressure, comfort and cup resonances will differ. (Never mind in-ears which have no possibility of simulating the colouring of different outer ears.)

So you have subjective reviews of devices that will differ in performance for different users. Of course opinions will vary.

Problem with the Airpods Max, it does not offer more than the competition at the higher price it offers, it offers less. I actually find it embarrasing for Apple that my $100 Sony WH-1000XM3 (black friday deal) supports higher quality codecs than my $550 Airpods Max. It is time that Apple starts to support better bluetooth codecs if they want to charge premium prices as an example.

For me, codec support is pretty far down the list. AAC at 256kbits is audibly transparent to me on Apples devices, as is Ogg Vorbis at 320kb/s (Spotify - best quality). Here is an online resource for ABX-testing some codecs. There are others.

Weight, fit, uncorrected tonal response, and so on rank higher and are still subjective to each individual.

 

[UBS28]

You said: "The Sennheiser HE-1 doesn’t lack features that the competition offers. It actually offers more than the competition as it is a complete system where the DAC + amplifier and headphones are carefully designed to work with one an other without zero compromise."

And I said that's subjective especially at $50,000 what it didn't do for me in terms of comfort and sound quality that I could achieve with a HD820/HDV820 bundle also from Sennheiser offering a complete system similar to your subjective thoughts on what a measly $550 wireless headphone should be able to perform for YOU the way it performed for your other plastic headphones.

Did you miss the word “zero compromise” in what you quoted?

Funny, the HD820 is objectively a terrible headphone as it has a big design flaw. It has seal a problem. You are either lucky that you get a good seal and the HD 820 sounds fine or you are unlucky and the HD820 sounds like garbage.

Every person I know (in real life) could not get a good seal with the HD 820 and said it was garbage. However if you press the HD 820 hard against your ears, then it sounds ok.

So really, how can you possibly compare the HD820 to the Sennheiser HE-1 which does not have issues like this?

What do you mean subjective about the APM? These are hard facts on what the APM misses in features compared to the competition. Just look at the specs. I can open the Sony app and use the EQ to get any sound signature I want while the APM cannot. You are stuck with what Apple gives you. That is a fact, not subjective.

The competition offers a real case while Apple does not. That is also not subjective, that is a fact. The competition includes a cable. The competion doesn’t have 1 level of ANC, they have multiple levels. And so on .... all facts.

 

[UBS28]

But that is the power of Apple. Pay more for less and people will somehow turn it into being the best thing ever still.

 

[LeonPro]

Did you miss the word “zero compromise” in what you quoted?

Funny, the HD820 is objectively a terrible headphone as it has a big design flaw. It has seal a problem. You are either lucky that you get a good seal and the HD 820 sounds fine or you are unlucky and the HD820 sounds like garbage.

Every person I know (in real life) could not get a good seal with the HD 820 and said it was garbage. However if you press the HD 820 hard against your ears, then it sounds ok.

So really, how can you possibly compare the HD820 to the Sennheiser HE-1 which does not have issues like this?

What do you mean subjective about the APM? These are hard facts on what the APM misses in features compared to the competition. Just look at the specs. I can open the Sony app and I use the EQ to get any sound signature I want while the APM cannot. You are stuck with what Apple gives you. That is a fact, not subjective.

The competition offers a real case while Apple does not. That is also not subjective, that is a fact. The competition includes a cable. The competion doesn’t have 1 level of ANC, they have multiple levels. And so on .... all facts.

LeonPro said:
You said: "The Sennheiser HE-1 doesn’t lack features that the competition offers. It actually offers more than the competition as it is a complete system where the DAC + amplifier and headphones are carefully designed to work with one an other without zero compromise."

And I said that's subjective especially at $50,000 what it didn't do for me in terms of comfort and sound quality that I could achieve with a HD820/HDV820 bundle also from Sennheiser offering a complete system similar to your subjective thoughts on what a measly $550 wireless headphone should be able to perform for YOU the way it performed for your other plastic headphones.

Here, I quoted you YOUR quote where I did not omit the word and even highlighted the word ZERO since you clearly couldn't read.

You live in your own world of comparison. You clearly have your own idea of what an APM should be versus how Apple wanted to position it. LOL.

You go, girl!

 

[UBS28]

Here, I quoted you YOUR quote where I did not omit the word and even highlighted the word ZERO since you clearly couldn't read.

You live in your own world of comparison. You clearly have your own idea of what an APM should be versus how Apple wanted to position it. LOL.

You go, girl!

Read the word after “zero”, which is ”compromise”. “Zero” + “compromise” reads as “zero compromise”.

I am afraid you live in your own world if you think the Sony WH-1000XM3, Bose QC35II, Bose NC 700 are not competitors to the APM.

Honestly, most reviewers in one way or an other have compared the APM to a Bose or Sony headphone.

So I leave you on your own so that you can live in your own fantasy world where the APM is not being compared to Sony and Bose headphones while the rest of the world does.

 

[LeonPro]

Read the word after “zero”, which is ”compromise”. “Zero” + “compromise” reads as “zero compromise”.

I am afraid you live in your own world if you think the Sony WH-1000XM3, Bose QC35II, Bose NC 700 are not competitors to the APM.

Honestly, most reviewers in one way or an other have compared the APM to a Bose or Sony headphone.

Zero compromise doesn't need to be deciphered the way you apparently do. At $50,000, there is subjective compromise in comfort and sound quality. Did you understand that statement? Here it is again, at $50,000, there is subjective compromise in comfort and sound quality.

Most reviewers in one way or another will compare anything to any other thing. I can compare my Porsche to a Honda Civic because it both can bring me places.

You go compare your plastic headphones with the APM if it makes you happy. Then sing and dance in the rain that you were able to achieve much, much more with the savings you had. Such joy. Yipee!

 

[UBS28]

Zero compromise doesn't need to be deciphered the way you apparently do. At $50,000, there is subjective compromise in comfort and sound quality. Did you understand that statement? Here it is again, at $50,000, there is subjective compromise in comfort and sound quality.

Most reviewers in one way or another will compare anything to any other thing. I can compare my Porsche to a Honda Civic because it both can bring me places.

You go compare your plastic headphones with the APM if it makes you happy. Then sing and dance in the rain that you were able to achieve much, much more with the savings you had. Such joy. Yipee!

Haha, reviewers are comparing the APM to Bose and Sony headphones, which is a 100% fact. Just open youtube and watch.

The fact that you try to talk your way around something that is a fact, just says enough about how pointless talking to you is

Bye. Don’t bother replying as I am going to ignore you.

 

[LeonPro]

Haha, reviewers are comparing the APM to Bose and Sony headphones, which is a 100% fact. Just open youtube and watch.

The fact that you try to talk your way around something that is a fact, just says enough about how pointless talking to you use.

Bye.

You need reading comprehension. No one is saying that NO ONE isn't comparing the APM to any other headphone. What we've been saying is that if you do compare it and expect it to outperform in ALL aspects than a lower priced headphone the same way audiophiles have also compared the HE 1 to any other lower priced headphone and expect it to outperform those headphones in ALL aspects, then you will end up disappointed the way you are right now.

See ya. Don't let the door hit you as it closes.

 

[AppleRobert]

I said the HE-1 offers a complete system without zero-compromise. The competition of the HE-1 rely on 3rd party equipment to shine. Honestly, the Susvara with Hifiman their own $14000 amplifier was not that impressive, likewise for the SR-009 with their own Staxx amplifier. With the Sennheiser HE-1, you don’t have to rely on 3rd party equipment. I am not even sure if adding a Chord Dave to the HE-1 would improve it as it sounded fine as it is.

Apple might not think they do not compete against other wireless ANC headphones, but in my case they definetly do. If I have to work 10+ hours, I take the Bose QC35II. If I go outside and I expect a little bit of rain, I take the Bose NC 700 as it is water resistant. If I have a 1 hour break and it remains dry, I will take the Apple AirPods Max to go outside. If I have to go on a flight (not tested yet), I will probably take the Sony WH-1000XM3. For running, I take my Apple AirPods Pro. And so on ....

So I can see other iPhone users settling for a Bose or a Sony headphone instead of the APM for outside use + flights.

All the case uses of what you need wireless headphones for are not required for 99% of listeners.

Ask them why didn’t you buy the Bose QC35, all others aren’t comfortable for 10 hours. Why didn’t you buy the Bose NC 700, the others ain’t waterproof. For running, why don’t you have the AirPods Pro? If you go on a flight, why didn’t you buy the XM3?

Like I said, all those case uses you have for wireless headphones hits a very small percentage of listeners. Obviously one set isn’t going to fit YOUR needs. You expect the APM to replace all of them which is totally unreasonable and unrealistic (where applicable).

Most want good sound quality, noise cancelling, very good comfort. Etc. Etc. The APM easily suffice, other case uses aren’t show stoppers because they are low priority for them (especially codecs).

 

[UBS28]

All the case uses of what you need wireless headphones for are not required for 99% of listeners.

Ask them why didn’t you buy the Bose QC35, all others aren’t comfortable for 10 hours. Why didn’t you buy the Bose NC 700, the others ain’t waterproof. For running, why don’t you have the AirPods Pro? If you go on a flight, why didn’t you buy the XM3?

Like I said, all those case uses you have for wireless headphones hits a very small percentage of listeners. Obviously one set isn’t going to fit YOUR needs. You expect the APM to replace all of them which is totally unreasonable and unrealistic (where applicable).

Most want good sound quality, noise cancelling, very good comfort. Etc. Etc. The APM easily suffice, other case uses aren’t show stoppers because they are low priority for them (especially codecs).

Ah yes, so nobody uses wireless headphones for
- running
- outdoors
- flying / traveling
- office usage where headphones have to be used for a long period of time.

So all the features that Airpods Max lack is totally fine despite asking more money relative to the competition. I could not see this coming.

And the APM is not a comfortable headphone at all relative to the competition. Something that I was actually hoping for as Apple did a good job here with the AirPods Pro.

 

[Robbosan]

And the APM is not a comfortable headphone at all relative to the competition. Something that I was actually hoping for as Apple did a good job here with the AirPods Pro.

lol, AirPods pro were terrible for me, even AirPods can only use 1, not everyone has the same fit for headphones you know.

 

[AppleRobert]

Ah yes, so nobody uses wireless headphones for
- running
- outdoors
- flying / traveling
- office usage where headphones have to be used for a long period of time.

So all the features that Airpods Max lack is totally fine despite asking more money relative to the competition. I could not see this coming.

And the APM is not a comfortable headphone at all relative to the competition. Something that I was actually hoping for as Apple did a good job here with the AirPods Pro.

You have a need for those 4 you listed, maybe folks might require two of those. But still NC, sound quality, build quality etc etc are a higher priority for most listeners. And for you to ask Apple to give all 4 of those for your needs AND what I listed is unrealistic in a set of headphones so why is Apple any different regardless of the cost.

Folks cannot use the APMs for office listening or flying and traveling or maybe outdoors (depending on conditions)?
Wouldn’t know why, I easily can if I wanted to. Maybe not the best solution for each of those but quite doable.

You have me confused because why now keep the APM with you trying to get a jack of all trade headphone for your needs and at $550 when especially this isn’t it and you are disappointed for their cost. Just keep doing what you have been doing and save the money.

 

[EntropyQ3]

So all the features that Airpods Max lack is totally fine despite asking more money relative to the competition. I could not see this coming.

Well, features are only important if they are relevant to your use case.
Noone should buy, or value, headphones according the number of checkboxes that are marked.
The STAX SR-009 referred to above have no isolation to speak of, terrible leakage and the mandatory mains powered amp make them really awkward for jogging. ?
But does it really make sense to hold that against them? Well, if you’re looking for a pair of commuting or jogging phones, then yes! Otherwise, not really.

The AirPods Max are actually remarkably versatile phones in comparison, but they are NOT targeting maximum mobility, minimal bulk or suitable for use in rain. What they do however, is provide a wider range of utility for headphones that are primarily intended as reproducers of music, not as a hands free option for cell phone calls on the go that can also play music. Which is why people like me who have otherwise excellent headphones are interested because we see them as opening up a certain kind of music listening to more environments. They are not alone in this though, there are quite credible alternatives out there, arguably being better for some people and providing better value for sure.
But feature check boxes isn’t how we compare these products. If it were, we’d all use AirPods Pros for everything. (Which is a pretty valid proposition, actually.)

And the APM is not a comfortable headphone at all relative to the competition. Something that I was actually hoping for as Apple did a good job here with the AirPods Pro.

Comfort is entirely subjective though.
Weight however, is not. And I do question some of Apples choices of design and materials in that respect, but I’m not sure exactly how their weight breaks down over their components. And there is a game of compromise going on, of course, between battery weight and battery life, affected by processing and raw sensitivity of the transducers. But is it really a good idea to have magnetic earcups for instance and adding the weight of magnets to the package?
Weight becomes a literally more pressing concern over time, and is one aspect of the phones where I feel Apple could have done a better job, meaning it would suit me better. I find them comfortable enough, but I’d prefer them to be lighter for really long sessions. Compared to its closest competitors, adding more than half again the weight was a dubious choice. Yes, the materials look good, but....

 

[Ethosik]

The cop out answer would be that the AirPods max are for people who desire an audio experience beyond what the AirPods Pro can offer, which is pushing intelligent sound via features such as active noise cancellation, transparency mode and spatial audio.

To put it another way, the AirPods Pro is currently the only model which supports the aforementioned features. If you like them, but also want better sound quality, and don’t mind the added bulk (eg: you are watching a movie at home on your desk), there’s the airpods max for that.

Currently, I think the support for such features is still pretty limited, but I am willing to wager that in the future, app developers can strengthen the platform by building experiences that take advantage of these feature.

But until that day comes, AirPods max are pretty much just an expensive pair of wireless headphones, and it’s not unreasonable for people to evaluate them alone these lines.

What is so wrong wearing these outside? From someone that actually CANNOT wear any earbuds for more than 20 minutes without my ears hurting SO BAD, I need to use over ear headphones.

 

[hayden1250]

Picked mine up the other day. Love them. Really nice design, good sound quality and comfortable.

 

[EntropyQ3]

What is so wrong wearing these outside? From someone that actually CANNOT wear any earbuds for more than 20 minutes without my ears hurting SO BAD, I need to use over ear headphones.

Two things - weight and lack of weather sealing. But for long car/bus/train/flights their noise cancelling is a boon and the lack of weather sealing doesn’t enter into the equation.

 

[yticolev]

I use an umbrella or rain jacket with a hood when it rains. I'm returning my APMs now that I know $50,000 headphones work better, at least tethered at home.

 

[jterp7]

One issue with all headphone reviews is that they are pretty much inherently subjective. It's effectively impossible to set up a credible ABX testing situation. Even blind you can feel what phones you're using.

And sensitivity to weight, shape of head and thus seal and pressure, comfort and cup resonances will differ. (Never mind in-ears which have no possibility of simulating the colouring of different outer ears.)

So you have subjective reviews of devices that will differ in performance for different users. Of course opinions will vary.


For me, codec support is pretty far down the list. AAC at 256kbits is audibly transparent to me on Apples devices, as is Ogg Vorbis at 320kb/s (Spotify - best quality). Here is an online resource for ABX-testing some codecs. There are others.

Weight, fit, uncorrected tonal response, and so on rank higher and are still subjective to each individual.

I used spotify auto setting for og airpods, powerbeats pro and even my b&w’s at home. I finally tried upping to best as you stated while trying the new airpod max and im not sure theres an enormous difference. The apmax does seem to show how well a track is recorded though.

 

[EntropyQ3]

I used spotify auto setting for og airpods, powerbeats pro and even my b&w’s at home. I finally tried upping to best as you stated while trying the new airpod max and im not sure theres an enormous difference. The apmax does seem to show how well a track is recorded though.

I didn’t want to claim that Ogg Vorbis at 320kbits/s was required for encoding transparency! I only stated that for me it is transparent no matter what music I test with including stuff that is more test signal than music. Perceptual audio coding works, and unless you are trying to save the last bit of bandwidth (little reason these days, but cell phone data plans can be very restrictive in some parts of the world), there is no reason to obsess about lossless audio transfer. I think the terminology itself, lossy vs. lossless, mess people up. Lossless must be better, right?

I simply said that in my eyes, the lossless emperor has no clothes. Which, along with suggesting that people actually try ABX blindtesting it themselves, is enough to have you tarred and feathered in some audiophile circles.

 

[kirk.vino]

It’s all very subjective. Also, you can totally break them in. I did. I was on the fence as well, as I found them a bit tight when I started using them. However, it’s no longer the case after a couple of weeks.

 

[scrobert]

I almost returned them today after 12 days. It was a comfort issue.

Then, I found a sweet position on my head and after an entire day of wearing them at work, they feel great. Maybe I just got used to them but I’m pretty sure I just found a couple great positions on my head and got the arm length adjustments dialed in.

I’ve been listening to music every night before bed because these things bring a whole new sound to my music listening experience.

They’ve been great on zoom calls as well. No one has made a comment about their size but many of my coworkers wear over-ear headphones, so they didn’t notice.