Is Apple becoming very greedy with their pricing on new Macs ?

[zhenya]

I believe they've been overpriced ever since the Intel switch.

You are going to have to support that statement because as someone who buys a lot of PC laptops, when you actually compare the entire package that you get with Apple laptops compared to what it costs to get anything similar in the PC world, it quickly becomes apparent that Apple is always priced fairly, often very fairly, compared to similar products in the Windows world.

 

[roadbloc]

You are going to have to support that statement because...

What would you like me to support my opinions with? Factual evidence? 'Overpriced' is only what people make of it. Its entirely subjective. To many, the fried chicken wraps from the local co-op are overpriced at £2.50 but I'm happy to pay that price. And I'm certainly not going to compare them with the fried chicken at KFC.

 

[zhenya]

What would you like me to support my opinions with? Factual evidence? 'Overpriced' is only what people make of it. Its entirely subjective. To many, the fried chicken wraps from the local co-op are overpriced at £2.50 but I'm happy to pay that price. And I'm certainly not going to compare them with the fried chicken at KFC.

No, overpriced is verifiable by comparing something roughly equivalent. It doesn't just mean you don't want to pay that much for it.

 

[lowendlinux]

You are going to have to support that statement because as someone who buys a lot of PC laptops, when you actually compare the entire package that you get with Apple laptops compared to what it costs to get anything similar in the PC world, it quickly becomes apparent that Apple is always priced fairly, often very fairly, compared to similar products in the Windows world.

I don't know what rodbloc will say but in the end it's just another Intel PC. When Apple dropped PowerPC Macs lost all their character and charm that makes them in a sense over priced. When you get into PC's at the same price Mac's sit at they tend to add features that aren't available on Mac's ( in the business class) and tend to offer better graphics (in the gaming class) or are mobile workstations with all that it implies. Ultra books have sort of changed that a bit but it still generally stands. I still like and use express cards, smart card readers, and eSATA none are available on Mac's, but I don't get the battery life (generally) or the HiDPI screen which is an acceptable trade off to me.

 

[roadbloc]

No, overpriced is verifiable by comparing something roughly equivalent. It doesn't just mean you don't want to pay that much for it.

Right. Because there is no such thing as justifying a purchase for a single reason. Everything must be compared.

 

[zhenya]

Right. Because there is no such thing as justifying a purchase for a single reason. Everything must be compared.

There is no problem with justifying a purchase or a non-purchase for whatever reason you like. Using a the term 'overpriced' however, implies that there is something else equivalent that can be purchased considerably cheaper - and also generally implies that there is some sort of surcharge due to a brand name or gouging due to supply constraints. That is categorically not the case with Apple laptops, despite the simplistic replies suggesting otherwise that are so popular here.

 

[roadbloc]

There is no problem with justifying a purchase or a non-purchase for whatever reason you like. Using a the term 'overpriced' however, implies that there is something else equivalent that can be purchased considerably cheaper - and also generally implies that there is some sort of surcharge due to a brand name or gouging due to supply constraints. That is categorically not the case with Apple laptops, despite the simplistic replies suggesting otherwise that are so popular here.

Overpriced has little to do with comparisons or brands, although it can help sway opinion. Overpriced is simply someone not willing to pay the money for something. I've really liked some products I've considered to be overpriced. Was on the verge of buying them. Then I saw the price and deemed it too much. Thus overpriced.

It is entirely subjective, no matter how you attempt to spin it.

But what you're really wanting me to say here is that you can get the hardware in Macs considerably cheaper. Which is true and one of the reasons I believe Macs to be overpriced. The switch from RISC processors to Intel ones will have saved Apple a lot of money, money that has never seen to be reduced from the price. The second is the lack of decent software. Apple's software writing skills went rapidly downhill after 2009 or so. Bug ridden, oversimplified to the point of near uselessness and generally bloated.

 

[0098386]

I never used to think that Apple systems were overpriced. I was totally okay in paying more because of two reasons 1) I can run the 2 operating systems I need 2) they're built to last.
That last one I'm not so sure about. I recently bought a MacBook Pro to replace my 11 year old PowerBook. Already from the get go I can't replace the battery or HDD - the two things that go first.

So yeah, I think they are getting greedy. To me at least they're losing that top-end value that put them above the others through the 2000's.

My current iMac is 4 years old and still runs amazing. But should it break I'll be looking into PC's as well as Macs to replace it.

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I believe they've been overpriced ever since the Intel switch.

Other way around for me. Now I can install both Windows and OSX on a single computer rather than having to buy one of each. Dropping Bootcamp support would be the only way to flat-out stop me buying Macs.

 

[Gwendolini]

The switch from RISC processors to Intel ones will have saved Apple a lot of money, money that has never seen to be reduced from the price.

The last G5 iMac did cost 1,299 USD for the 17" version and 1,699 USD for the 20" version.
The current base iMac costs 1,099 USD and then 1,299 USD for the faster 21.5" iMac and the 27" iMac base versions costs 1,799 USD.
The 1,299 USD and the 1,699 USD from 2005 are now worth 1,561 USD and 2,041 USD.

The last 15" G4 PowerBook did cost 1,999 USD back in 2005 and the 15" rMBP costs 1,999 USD in 2014/2015. The 1,999 USD from 2005 are 2,402 USD now.

The last G5 PowerMac with quad core option did cost 3,299 USD back in 2005, which is 3,964 USD now.
The current Mac Pro with quad core CPU costs 2,999 USD.

I guess we can all see where Apple hasn't reduced prices.

You do not have to buy it though.

 

[Michael Goff]

No, overpriced is verifiable by comparing something roughly equivalent. It doesn't just mean you don't want to pay that much for it.

No, overpriced is simply a value opinion. That's completely subjective, no objective way to tell him that it isn't overpriced to him. Some people find a 10k Rolex to be an excellent purchase, others find it overpriced. Neither are wrong, they both value different things.

 

[green9206]

No, overpriced is simply a value opinion. That's completely subjective, no objective way to tell him that it isn't overpriced to him. Some people find a 10k Rolex to be an excellent purchase, others find it overpriced. Neither are wrong, they both value different things.

Overpriced is overpriced. Its not subjective. If Apple tomorrow doubled the prices of the iMac, Macbook, iPad and the iPhone then wouldn't you call it overpriced?
I mean $2000 for an iPhone 6 would not be overpriced? Or would it still be subjective?

 

[Michael Goff]

Overpriced is overpriced. Its not subjective. If Apple tomorrow doubled the prices of the iMac, Macbook, iPad and the iPhone then wouldn't you call it overpriced?
I mean $2000 for an iPhone 6 would not be overpriced? Or would it still be subjective?

To me, yes, that's overpriced. To Bill Gates? Maybe less so.

 

[lowendlinux]

Overpriced is overpriced. Its not subjective. If Apple tomorrow doubled the prices of the iMac, Macbook, iPad and the iPhone then wouldn't you call it overpriced?
I mean $2000 for an iPhone 6 would not be overpriced? Or would it still be subjective?

It’d still be subjective.

 

[zhenya]

No, overpriced is simply a value opinion. That's completely subjective, no objective way to tell him that it isn't overpriced to him. Some people find a 10k Rolex to be an excellent purchase, others find it overpriced. Neither are wrong, they both value different things.

Herein lies a subtlety of language. Something can be expensive without being overpriced. The two words are not interchangeable.

In the market as a whole, pricing is set by the competitive marketplace. This largely prevents durable goods from becoming 'overpriced' barring external factors such as supply shortages of popular items where retailers or resellers jack up the prices in the short term. Competition in the marketplace largely prevents something from being overpriced because another player will come in and produce a materially similar item for the price the market will bear. This is why my original questions on this subject were pertinent - what other laptop that is materially similar to those made by Apple are significantly less expensive? When you do an honest assessment of the market, you'll find that anything that is truly similar is priced very near to Apple's prices, and often higher. That means that while an Apple laptop is expensive, it is not overpriced. (The value that certain consumers place on the more premium elements of Apple's laptops that set the price where it is do not factor into the question of whether an item is overpriced or not. They merely determine whether that particular item is too expensive for that particular buyer.)

Instead of durable goods, let's consider other examples. In the stock market, determining the value of a company's stock is a much more nebulous thing as there are many value judgments - as you'd like to include in the discussion - in determining the value of a company and the price the stock should be at. When Apple stock was at $300/share (before the latest split) many people said it was overpriced. Obviously it was not as people who bought at that price have become very wealthy. At $300, it was expensive, but not overpriced. In fact, the split was meant to address that very perception - at $700 or so a share, it had become too expensive for many investors to get in on; yet the market has determined that it was not overpriced.

As a counterpoint to that, it would not be difficult to come up with a list of recent tech stocks that were, in fact, overpriced, even if they were not expensive.

The two words are not equivalent.

 

[tentala]

what other laptop that is materially similar to those made by Apple are significantly less expensive? When you do an honest assessment of the market, you'll find that anything that is truly similar is priced very near to Apple's prices, and often higher. That means that while an Apple laptop is expensive, it is not overpriced. (The value that certain consumers place on the more premium elements of Apple's laptops that set the price where it is do not factor into the question of whether an item is overpriced or not. They merely determine whether that particular item is too expensive for that particular buyer.)

I would love to see an example. I may misunderstand your word "similar". To me, I will say prices from Apple's products are premium.

 

[iSayuSay]

Apple laptops and its mobile products are not expensive or overpriced. They're quite fair for what they are.

As some people stated earlier, I doubt other computer brands would be able to make a "cheaper" laptop given the same design, material, component and software. Buying a $1500 Mac you also pay for the nice aluminum body, great electronics (not raw-powerful-gaming-laptop fast, but it's fast enough for most people and power efficient too), it also has a nice keyboard, and trackpad, great OS and great customer services.

Yes an aluminum body does not get your laptop run any faster. A fanless Macbook also take down the performance and obviously you can't run a Battlefield 4 with 60fps max settings with it. But hey, power efficiency is also a spec and you have to pay for it. Also it's a nice bonus to have a laptop which also nice to look at. Whether they're worth the price to you or not is totally different story.

The only reason PC laptops can get cheaper is by using cheaper components. Plastic crappy enclosure, not-so-great keyboard and sluggish trackpad. When they make it up with better internals (fastest CPU, latest graphic, SSD a la gaming laptop) they can even be more expensive than a Mac. And all of them gaming laptops don't even have retina display yet.

The same point goes with iPhone and iPad and even the Watch. Yes even the Edition. Apple products are not overpriced, it just doesn't have the cheaper option.

Me? I still need a raw power computer for my gaming hobby. But one should still be able to see the values on Apple products.

 

[iSayuSay]

I would love to see an example. I may misunderstand your word "similar". To me, I will say prices from Apple's products are premium.

An example? Well I can give you many. But for one there is Alienware gaming desktop/laptop, Razer laptop, and all of gaming laptop.

With the newest, fastest electronic inside, it can even be more expensive than a Mac. It has plastic body which tends to creaks here and there, bulky, weighs a ton, the display color is crappy to compensate for response time. But yes it runs any games smoothly.

But hey you know instead of buying an Alienware, you could always build your own equivalent gaming desktop PC for a lot cheaper. In which case, Alienware is also "premium"

 

[bluespark]

First, I was only talking about the retina screen and I have a retina mbp already so i know about retina from using it.

But looking at the macbook as a whole, what new info can you get from it from physically handling it? How pretty it is in person? Aesthetics does have it's place but if you're buying a computer just cause it's pretty then you deserve what ever happens.

Nice straw man there.

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It’d still be subjective.

Correct. Subjectivity is not a question of degree.

 

[tentala]

An example? Well I can give you many. But for one there is Alienware gaming desktop/laptop, Razer laptop, and all of gaming laptop.

With the newest, fastest electronic inside, it can even be more expensive than a Mac. It has plastic body which tends to creaks here and there, bulky, weighs a ton, the display color is crappy to compensate for response time. But yes it runs any games smoothly.

But hey you know instead of buying an Alienware, you could always build your own equivalent gaming desktop PC for a lot cheaper. In which case, Alienware is also "premium"

To me, the target customers for Macs are just different (businessmen, maybe). I can have a gaming laptop with 13.3", i7-4710mq, GTX 760m, 1TB 7200 rpm for 990 (or 1150 for Samsung 850 Pro 256gb ssd instead of 7200rpm), (4.5lbs) and just enough what I'm looking for; just different types of users for different laptops.

 

[Isumbras]

In general I don't think Apple products are overpriced. You get very good products which will give you much longer use than say Windows machines. I'm still using a 2009 iMac which I'm still very happy with and which I know will give me a good few years useful life yet and I'm a freelance Mac Support engineer and consultant. Most PC users replace their machines within 2-4 years and spend a lot of money keeping them secure and for software the equivalent of which Apple bundles in free. And the System upgrades are free unlike Windows where you pay through the nose for every new iteration of which most in recent years have been rubbish. No wonder large Corporations and home users stuck to the 11 year old very stable XP system until Microsoft stopped supporting it. Many still stick with it even now.

What I don't like is Apple's current policy of making memory upgrades by the user impossible, demanding that you decide at the point of purchase the amount of memory you want and then that's what you are stuck with. On the older machines you could upgrade the memory for a fraction of the price Apple charges; a very greedy and short sighted marketing decision in my opinion.

 

[Antares]

I would argue that Apple is not being greedy with their pricing of Macs. Take a look at the pricing of computers over the last three decades. Then tell me how you don't think Macs are much cheaper, now. The design, engineering, quality and software Macs every Mac worth the price. Sure, I wish they were lower priced...who wouldn't? However, The price is fair for what you are getting.

I am confused, like many, on how the new MacBook is not the MacBook Air. Everything about it screams that it should be. And, no, the new MacBook doesn't interest me. I need more than what it offers. But the MacBook is fair for those who happy for what it provides.

 

[tresmith]

Nice straw man there.

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Correct. Subjectivity is not a question of degree.

straw man? lol

do you even know what that means?

 

[iFitzgerald]

1019€ for a Mac Mini with a Dual-Core i5, 8GB of RAM, 1TB fusion drive and Iris Graphics (not even Iris Pro). If that isn't overpriced, I don't know what is...

 

[kupkakez]

Man you complain about the pricing of EVERYTHING.i remember around iPhone time you complained about that. I just read your post the other day you think thr Apple watch is too pricey. Geeeeee.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Man you complain about the pricing of EVERYTHING.i remember around iPhone time you complained about that. I just read your post the other day you think thr Apple watch is too pricey. Geeeeee.

A Mac Mini and an iPhone is far from being everything in a normal world.
Plus the poster considers the Watch pricey as well? Oh my God, what a scandal! 350 USD - 10.000 USD for a fashion gadget. Unbelievable!

Get down back to earth, kupkakez.