Is Apple concerned/aware about all the negative comments about the new MP?

[APlotdevice]

Pedantically, the Cube was from 2000...13 years ago.



Image

-hh

I said "almost all". In all the time since Apple's revival under Jobs, how many products have been failures verses success stories? The only ones I can recall are the Cube and the second gen iPod Shuffle. Even if there is a couple more, that's still a great track record! Which suggests that Apple actually has a pretty good grasp of the market. Are they going to appease everyone? No, of course not. Such a task is intrinsically impossible. But chances are more people will be overall content with this new Mac Pro than not.

 

[portishead]

The Mac Pro is going to be awesome and sell extremely well. It's the same 100 people complaining in here and probably on other blog sites as well. They likely weren't going to buy a new Mac Pro anyway, and most likely don't make purchasing decisions at their workplace. Negative people will always find a reason to complain. Reasonable people will buy what they need and not spend all day complaining on the internet.

 

[MacVidCards]

The Mac Pro is going to be awesome and sell extremely well. It's the same 100 people complaining in here and probably on other blog sites as well. They likely weren't going to buy a new Mac Pro anyway, and most likely don't make purchasing decisions at their workplace. Negative people will always find a reason to complain. Reasonable people will buy what they need and not spend all day complaining on the internet.

I've purchased 5 in last 4 years. (1 @ 1,1 2 @ 3,1 and 2 @ 4,1)

Won't be getting any iBins.

Was over at a DIT house here in Hollywood 2 weeks ago.

They have more than 30 camera acquisition carts with 2009+ MPs in them.

They are looking at Windows systems now, not excited about the new iBins either.

Wedding video/ insurance documentation folks will think about them, but the REAL Mini will look better.

 

[Tesselator]

The Mac Pro is going to be awesome and sell extremely well. It's the same 100 people complaining in here and probably on other blog sites as well. They likely weren't going to buy a new Mac Pro anyway, and most likely don't make purchasing decisions at their workplace. Negative people will always find a reason to complain. Reasonable people will buy what they need and not spend all day complaining on the internet.

Yup, I agree. But it's likely not 100 people doing the complaining. I guess it's more like 10. At lease those complaining to say that they won't be upgrading. And even most of those will upgrade anyway after the machine releases. Most of the folks complaining about the MacPro 6,1 are doing so out of ignorance or like those mentioned in Hollywood, maybe because it's too damn hot and their air-conditioner is on the fritz.

With the information we have so far no reasonable informed arguments can be made against the MP6,1. As more specific information becomes available there might be some reasonable issues raised but at this point there's nothing bad to say. Well, except: I hate everyone, nothing works like I think it should, Apple sucks, MP6,1 sucks, PC is better, Amiga rules! And other dip-***** remarks like them. They are just not based on any reasonable rationale is all.

I guess it might be considered reasonable for some to complain about the shape tho - <shrug>

 

[handsome pete]

With the information we have so far no reasonable informed arguments can be made against the MP6,1.

Not sure I agree with that statement. If you're saying that no one can form a negative opinion at this point because of the lack of information, then that would imply that an argument for it would be equally misinformed. And in that case the best method is simply "wait and see." But then what would be the point of forums like these?

But I do think both sides of the argument can be made despite the little info we know. Of course we'll certainly find out more, but it's not like we're going to get anything earth shattering revelations when this thing's released. Aside from pricing and real-world performance, what are the other big unknowns?

 

[Tesselator]

Not sure I agree with that statement. If you're saying that no one can form a negative opinion at this point because of the lack of information, then that would imply that an argument for it would be equally misinformed. And in that case the best method is simply "wait and see." But then what would be the point of forums like these?

But I do think both sides of the argument can be made despite the little info we know. Of course we'll certainly find out more, but it's not like we're going to get anything earth shattering revelations when this thing's released. Aside from pricing and real-world performance, what are the other big unknowns?

Yeah just that, price, which GPU models will be selectable and the actual TB2 performance - besides of course overall system performance.

I get what you're saying tho and while I think the "wait and see" stance is by far the most appropriate, I do think almost all of the negative comments are from ignorance while most (but not all) of the positive comments are coming from experience and understanding.

I mean really, what are the negative remarks?

1. No PCIe slots.
   - The informed know they actually aren't needed - at all.
2. It's going to be a jumble of messy boxes and cables everywhere.
   - Anyone with any experience knows this is total BS - only in one's imagination can this be an issue.
3. Only 4 DIMM slots.
   - It's easy to discover that currently 16x4 is the same cost as 8x8. And almost no one needs or uses more than 64GB. In fact 32GB is probably fine for almost everything one is likely to do in the next two or three years. Here again the informed and experienced know this while the ignorant yell and scream about only 4 DIMM slots. Stupid.
4. There's no internal drives.
   - Yes there are. There is one for sure and probably (unconfirmed at this time) a second one as well - super speedy too! To fill out the missing two and the two ODDs one only needs to spend about $100 on a single additional USB3 enclosure - no big deal and the total system is still much smaller than the previous MacPro models.
5. Can't add a third or forth GPU at full speed.
   - Ya couldn't on any previous MacPro either and now with TB2 you can at least add another 12 or so GPUs for compute and even reasonably speedy Game & video performance. That's a massive upgrade potential yet the ignorant and silly would have us believe that it's a downside. WTF?
6. No GPU selection beyond what Apple promotes.
   - Only true of the internal cards and also true of all previous MacPro systems. Unless one wanted to hack a card, void its warrantee, and/or do without a boot screen. Certainly not Apple approved or recommended. Again they can still be added via TB2 with almost the same performance. The only tests we have showing external GPUs to be slower is based on TB1 not TB2.
7. The MP6,1 is just a MacMini.
   - How ridiculous is that!?! It doesn't spec anything like a Mini!

What else is there? Shape? OK, I can give the ignorant complainers that. If they don't like the looks of it then they don't and that's that. Yet we were given some specific features and every one of them is an upgrade from the previous machine - unless the person looking at them is ignorant or inexperienced to the point of being unable to recognize it.

Besides shape the only reasonable negative argument I could possibly see is that for people who like to upgrade the GPU with every new revision (like GTX470 to GTX 570 to GTX 670 to GTX 770... etc.) they will have to insert the card(s) into an external box and there may be (unconfirmed at this point!!!) a performance hit with some (certainly not the majority at present!!!) games. But of course only Gamers want to do this kind of GPU upgrading in the first place and such cutting edge gamer geeks shouldn't be (and would't be) on a Mac at all - no matter the spec. So even that argument although potentially valid, is somewhat ridiculous!

 

[linuxcooldude]

Just imagine what computers are going to be 20 years from now, will they be the same what we have today? They will be quite different from what we have now.

And you can expect we will have people kicking & screaming all they way to that point.

While sometimes unfortunate, technology does not wait for anyone to catch up.

Even for myself, I would have to make some changes to use the new Mac Pro, old things can't last forever.

 

[portishead]

I've purchased 5 in last 4 years. (1 @ 1,1 2 @ 3,1 and 2 @ 4,1)

Won't be getting any iBins.

Was over at a DIT house here in Hollywood 2 weeks ago.

They have more than 30 camera acquisition carts with 2009+ MPs in them.

They are looking at Windows systems now, not excited about the new iBins either.

Wedding video/ insurance documentation folks will think about them, but the REAL Mini will look better.

And you just reaffirmed everything I said. I can picture you hating on the new Mac Pro to some guy in Hollywood, and he just goes along with what you're saying even though he probably didn't care.

 

[MacVidCards]

And you just reaffirmed everything I said. I can picture you hating on the new Mac Pro to some guy in Hollywood, and he just goes along with what you're saying even though he probably didn't care.

no idea what you are talking about

I was dropping off GTX770 4GB EFI cards for him to evaluate in his setups and we started talking about future. He will decide once the 6,1 is out. But being forced to use TB for everything doesn't have them excited.

Some of us really work in the entertainment industry. I am sorry that you don't understand what I have written.

 

[wallysb01]

Double selection bias. Since the forum goers are already negative, The ones who voted negatively are just the more negative of the negative.

Forum users are already heavily skewed to being a bunch of sourpusses. Then you get the sourest of the sourpusses voting. You can't explain that.

For internet forums in general I might agree, but in the Mac Pro forum I don't think this is as true as it is in other places. There is a good base of people just generally interested in high performance computing and what Apple is doing to provide solutions for the top end.

There are many factors, rational and not, that I've seen expressed by people in guiding their opinion. This isn't just a bunch of "sourpusses". Those that populate this forum generally just want a computer that will let them do their work as easily and cheaply as possible. This isn't the iPhone or iPad forum. Traffic is generally limited to people interested in multi-thousand dollar computers. That filters a lot of the "sourpusses", but that is interesting opinion you have.

 

[OS6-OSX]

OK, how about the moderates? Those that can look at what the MP 6.1 has to offer, compare and contrast it to their current gear and say No Way! It is quite possible to make that assessment without "waiting to see".
Don't know if I am one of the 10 or 100, but I bash Apple because of what it is. Another greedy corporation!
I don't bash the people or their reasons they may be interested in a MP 6.1!
So apple, make sure you get the pricing right or rename it the 2013 Cube!

 

[Tesselator]

I would tend to agree with Sean myself. Here, on other Mac sites, and on every photo equipment or CGI forum I've ever participated in the users there never represent the majority. Usually it's a minority mixed with super-connoisseurs (elitists), those super-eager to have or talk about the latest thing (wanna-be elitists), and those who hate where technology is going. There's also 5% or so in among them who love to share and teach. That's a fair estimate of pretty much every site I've been on. There may be readers who just read and who classify differently but no one hears from them so this remains unclear - there's just not a lot of folks who want to go on-line and say: I'm average, I like average things, and besides being interesting to read (maybe) I don't care about any of the conversations concerning out-of-the-ordinary stuff. There are also those who can't or don't want to think for themselves and who come to forum sites to ask questions - but they almost never opinionate or engage in general discussions.

And yeah, when you profile the opinions of those "super-connoisseurs, super-eager new-tech-talkers, and those who hate where technology is going", it can look pretty negative most of the time about most things.

 

[macs4nw]

Its fair to say that the utmost majority of the MP users are negative about this new MP to say the least. Do you guys think the MP developers and big shots at apple are aware of all this negativity and what do you think would be their reaction to all this?

Might all this justified criticism be a reason for apple to still do a few last-minute changes to the new MP before releasing it or are they just going to sit this one out with the risk of losing even more Pro users to the competition.

Has Apple really screwed up on this one, would there have been some kind of a crisis meeting saying "ok guys i think we screwed up on this one and went a bit to far on this one, the people are not buying into the ************ this time"

Are you kidding me? Too much time, R&D, and too many overall resources, go into these machines, especially such a machine as this PRO, that hasn't been updated in a significant way for at least three years. This is not some flippant decision, they know exactly where they're going with this machine. APPLE is not gonne screw this up!

Hardware wise, APPLE has proven time and again to read the market very well, and this new MacPro, after release and benchmarks, and overcoming some initial trepidation, will prove to be a killer machine, that will be embraced and welcomed by the long suffering pro community. No doubt in my mind.

 

[ApplesAOranges]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1608836/

Check that picture out!

Apple really did it this time!

 

[wallysb01]

there's just not a lot of folks who want to go on-line and say: I'm average, I like average things, and besides being interesting to read (maybe) I don't care about any of the conversations concerning out-of-the-ordinary stuff.
....
And yeah, when you profile the opinions of those "super-connoisseurs, super-eager new-tech-talkers, and those who hate where technology is going", it can look pretty negative most of the time about most things.

So, besides your rather gross generalizations that you pulled from that dark spot you can't see, who are these average people that like average things that are going to pay $4000 for a computer....?

 

[Tesselator]

So, besides your rather gross generalizations that you pulled from that dark spot you can't see, who are these average people that like average things that are going to pay $4000 for a computer....?

A few of them frequent the Apple forums. We don't know that it's $4,000 tho. Who are they? They are the millions of people who bought the MP 5,1 the millions who bought the 4,1 and so on. They are the millions who will buy the MP6,1 too. The millions of people who have never even registered on a forum site.

You know there's only about 300 or so people who are active here on this site in a months time right?

 

[portishead]

Some of us really work in the entertainment industry. I am sorry that you don't understand what I have written.

This isn't a pissing contest. I actually work in the entertainment industry. That's fine that you sell video cards and stuff, but you're still an outsider trying to peek in.

 

[wallysb01]

You know there's only about 300 or so people who are active here on this site in a months time right?

I do, but other than your inane generalizations, I don't see why this 300 isn't at least a moderately accurate subsample of the whole of Mac Pro customers.

 

[Tesselator]

I do, but other than your inane generalizations, I don't see why this 300 isn't at least a moderately accurate subsample of the whole of Mac Pro customers.

Mostly because of the added attribute. In this case the addition of wanting to spend time typing about mac related topics. Most Mac users do NOT have that attribute and it's a very segregating one AFAICT.

Sorry about the inane generalizations tho. It's just my observations from 30 years of on-line forum posting, hosting, modding, and reading. From BIC and PunterBBS's to vBulletin and WordPress. Not sure if that qualifies anything tho.

 

[wallysb01]

Mostly because of the added attribute. In this case the addition of wanting to spend time typing about mac related topics. Most Mac users do NOT have that attribute and it's a very segregating one AFAICT.

Sorry about the inane generalizations tho. It's just my observations from 25 years of on-line forum posting, modding, and reading. From PunterBBS's to vBulletin. Not sure if that qualifies anything tho.

Well when you post degrading generalizations you shoot your credibility completely to hell and any shred of rational thought that might have been present in your argument is going to get ignored.

I agree that the mere fact that these people are hear to vote on that poll leads to selection bias, however I disagree that we have any useful information about how strong that bias is or even to which direction it goes.

 

[Tesselator]

Well when you post degrading generalizations you shoot your credibility completely to hell and any shred of rational thought that might have been present in your argument is going to get ignored.

I don't think my labels there were degrading - unless you think elitism is bad thing. Judging by people's actions I say most people think it's quite a positive. I don't mean "stuck-up" - just elitist. I even threw in words like connoisseur and eager in distinction thereof.

I agree that the mere fact that these people are hear to vote on that poll leads to selection bias, however I disagree that we have any useful information about how strong that bias is or even to which direction it goes.

OK, but when you compare the posted opinions against the unit sales and registered active seats it's pretty telling. That pretty much defines a "direction" IMO. Maybe not... <shrug>

 

[wallysb01]

I don't think my labels there were degrading - unless you think elitism is bad thing. Judging by people's actions I say most people think it's quite a positive. I don't mean "stuck-up" - just elitist. I even threw in words like connoisseur and eager in distinction thereof.

The word elitist often carries a negative connotation in spoken English. Then you also used wanna-be elitists, which I can't see as anything other than an attempt at degrading this group of people you're trying to define, as "wanna-be" anything is pretty ubiquitously used with a negative connotation. If that's not what you intended, I suggest you take more effort in typing what you mean and meaning what you type.

OK, but when you compare the posted opinions against the unit sales and registered active seats it's pretty telling.

Is it? Do show that.

 

[Tesselator]

The word elitist often carries a negative connotation in spoken English. Then you also used wanna-be elitists, which I can't see as anything other than an attempt at degrading this group of people you're trying to define, as "wanna-be" anything is pretty ubiquitously used with a negative connotation. If that's not what you intended, I suggest you take more effort in typing what you mean and meaning what you type.

Well, we're getting pretty semantical now. Just take my word for it I guess - I wasn't intending to be derogatory. I'm totally a wanna-be about so many things just as an example. I probably won't make any more effort in typing tho. People will take things positively, negatively, or neutrally as they wish to. Proven to myself thousands of times over.

- Your wanna-be billionaire friend, Tesselator.

 

[ApplesAOranges]

I would tend to agree with Sean myself. Here, on other Mac sites, and on every photo equipment or CGI forum I've ever participated in the users there never represent the majority. Usually it's a minority mixed with super-connoisseurs (elitists), those super-eager to have or talk about the latest thing (wanna-be elitists), and those who hate where technology is going. There's also 5% or so in among them who love to share and teach. That's a fair estimate of pretty much every site I've been on. There may be readers who just read and who classify differently but no one hears from them so this remains unclear - there's just not a lot of folks who want to go on-line and say: I'm average, I like average things, and besides being interesting to read (maybe) I don't care about any of the conversations concerning out-of-the-ordinary stuff. There are also those who can't or don't want to think for themselves and who come to forum sites to ask questions - but they almost never opinionate or engage in general discussions.

And yeah, when you profile the opinions of those "super-connoisseurs, super-eager new-tech-talkers, and those who hate where technology is going", it can look pretty negative most of the time about most things.

WTF I just read? *facepalm*

 

[Derpage]

I don't think they should be concerned about the negative attitudes of forum posters but more so with the lack of positive blog or news articles.