Other Is Apple going in the wrong direction with the camera improvements?

[I7guy]

I don't think you understand photography... How do you suppose you get a APSC size sensor inside an iPhone? And larger more expensive glass? Many lenses on their own cost more than even the most expensive iPhone. It physically cannot be done. The largest sensor in a phone is a 1" Sony sensor, a few phones use it however even they don't use the whole sensor area, and a 1" sensor is still tiny compared to DSLR/APSC sized sensors.

True.

However as a photographer myself, I can guarantee that give a complete novice an expensive camera and lens, and give a professional an iPhone who knows what they are doing, and the iPhone photo will be better in most cases.

And give a pro an iPhone and an expensive camera and very good glass, the camera and glass will be better in most cases.

For the size of the sensor and lenses used, Apple have done great work and each year it's improved (mostly).

As others have said, DSLR's are dead in the water, mirrorless is the current and future of professional photography until something even better comes along. Micro 4/3 is basically finished as well, its an ever decreasing market.

Cameras can never be smaller than the sensor and there will always be the case for big glass. I’m holding on to my dslr until it falls apart.

 

[dalestrauss]

• Stop messing around with "Hollywood effects" in videos - waste of resources and only a buying gimmick
• Give us a 10x optical zoom (periscope or liquid lens) and FORGET Samsung space zoom
• Please, please, please stop fine tuning for selfies, Instagram, TikTok - just do a good job around back
• Quit obsessing about DSLR replacement - just shoot for bridge camera performance

 

[unchecked]

There is a reason that Apple uses 'Pro' in their products. Because very few people want to be a 'regular' or buy the base model. Apple sells a lot of 'Pro' products to people who aren't 'pros' or don't need what the 'Pro' range provides.

So, it's to Apple's advantage to focus on the 'Pro' models. While that sounds like it supports what you're suggesting, in the long run it means Apple discontinues models that aren't Pro because they don't sell well.

It's interesting because a lot of people who purport to only buy what they need go for the Pro models. As 'regular' users it's not anything they need. It's simply what they want instead, blowing their whole argument about need.

True to a certain point. That's what I did with my 11 Pro three years back, it having all three sensors. But after spending over a thousand dollars on a phone, I'm not exactly sure I'm going to do the same with the pro model next year when I replace my 11 Pro with the alleged USB-C model.

The slowly upwards price creep is making me consider the non-Pro phones and question maybe the extra camera features isn't worth the bigger price tag.

 

[parajba]

I very much value a good camera. The best camera is the camera you have with you when you need it. I use my iPhone to take pictures of my holidays, kids and special moments with my family, so yes, a good camera is very important and I am glad that they are still investing in this department!

 

[eyoungren]

The slowly upwards price creep…

This has also been a consideration of mine and played some part in my choice to get the 11PM in the capacity I wanted versus the 12PM (which was new when I was buying).

While I will always go for the max capacity and highest end model Apple offers (aside from any of the stuff they may be pushing to the rich) I decided a few years back that my upgrades are now going to be a model behind the current version. It'll be cheaper and I get what I want.

I don't need to be on the bleeding edge.

 

[Azathoth123]

People upgrade for all sorts different reasons which is apparent if you can stand to read one of these ‘upgrade’ threads. So here’s my reason(s) for what it’s worth.

I am into iPhone photography and like the latest and greatest cameras as a general rule. If you’re not into iPhone photography, get one of the non-Pro models and save on storage space. They all make calls and do texting. Apple make a range of phones so you don’t have to pay for features and storage that you don’t believe that you’ll use.

My current phones are an iPhone 12 Pro Max and an iPhone 13 Pro. I’m getting the iPhone 14 Pro Max. How does this even make sense, I’m retired on a fixed income. Two reasons.

One, I’ve always used the Pro, not the Pro Max, the 12 was my first Max. I didn’t feel like a couple of weeks was enough to judge whether I liked the Max size well enough, so I spent a year with it and then went back to the Pro for the 13. I like the Max size though it does take some getting used to. Plus I’m in agreement with several others that the 13 Pro camera is not quite as good as it should be. If you’re using the 13 Pro improved camera specs above the 12 Pro camera, many times it does well, but some times it does not. I think that this is an image stabilization or firmware/software issue not a hardware issue, but who really knows?

Two, my goddaughter is needing an upgrade and she’s not heavy into photography though she uses the camera a good bit, so she’s getting the 13 Pro and I’m keeping the 12 Max as a backup.

 

[macsound1]

What kinda bothers me about the iPhone camera is the “zoom” choices. I feel like the 1x is too wide, the 3x is too zoomed in, and the wide is too fisheye.
If they kept the 3x as is, they’d need to make the 1x like a 1.5x

 

[Sydde]

The lenses are as small as they are ever going to be. Apple can't beat physics.

In theory, there are things they could do with diffraction gratings that could utterly replace lenses and maybe even wind the whole array into one ccd for front and back. The downside is that diffraction cameras have 100% depth of field, meaning you have to use the ML logic to manage background blurring in post.

 

[robgreene]

Am I the only one who thinks this? And not just apple, I could argue the same thing for Samsung and any other manufacture who are trying to build a “Hollywood shooting machine” that fits in a pocket.

After seeing all the camera improvements made year after year, I feel the back camera improvement, as extremely impressive as they are, are geared to an extreme niche market.

So, almost like... a "Pro" phone for a "Pro" niche?

 

[Isamilis]

Am I the only one who thinks this? And not just apple, I could argue the same thing for Samsung and any other manufacture who are trying to build a “Hollywood shooting machine” that fits in a pocket.

After seeing all the camera improvements made year after year, I feel the back camera improvement, as extremely impressive as they are, are geared to an extreme niche market. And some users, such as myself, will never use them to their full capability, so it’s just a waste of a feature that the money and time put into it, could be better invested elsewhere.

In my mind you’d get more people interested in a phone where the back was not so “sticking out” due to the cameras, but then have a better FaceTime camera for FaceTime, Instagram, tik toks, snapchats and all the other things most people use to shoot videos and post them on these platforms.

Is it just me, or do others also feel this way?

I also feel the same. I think Apple should make iPhone “photographer” version. Hence, they can lower price for people like me who had been satisfied with the existing one (which probably majority users).

 

[Sydde]

All they really have to do is build an optional case for the Pro/Max that includes a bayonet ring for mounting a lens over the camera. That ought to satisfy the pros who want really good specialty shots, especially if it has a 48MP sensor with high color fidelity.

 

[DavidChoux]

What else can phone companies develop that are equally as worthwhile? The camera stands out as really the only area where more development would be very useful.

 

[Ruggy]

No. The best camera is the one you have with you and you always have your phone. I've been an amateur photographer all my life and have always had a really good SLR or DSLR and a bagfull of lenses- even had a good darkroom in the old days- but I am genuinely astonished how good the quality of grabshots on the latest phone is compared to the sort of thing I used to sweat over 40 years ago.
It doesn't feel like photography and it doesn't require any skill but there's no doubt the results are absolutely superb.
They still need a better wide angle- the telephoto generally having enough detail to crop- and the portrait mode still needs some work on the bokeh, but truly, what you can do with something that fits into a pocket these days is astonishing.
Even if you only use it as a scanner or in the supermarket most of the time, everyone takes pics on holiday and special events and then who wouldn't want it to be the best it could be?

 

[Jackbequickly]

I think the “hump” for the lenses are here to stay as the lens has to be a certain maximum distance from the sensor so Apple would have to move it out with the hump or make the whole phone thicker and we know how obsessed Apple is when it comes to thin. Another way to get rid of the hump would be with a periscope system but not sure how well,that would work. It would be great for telephoto lenses.

 

[ANDJOE]

If they did this, there would be 1,000 headlines maligning Apple for choosing aesthetics over quality.
Out of curiosity I looked at photos from my iPhone 7 taken in 2017 (still a camera bump but roughly the same width as today’s iPhones). Woof!

 

[sparksd]

I'm another who factors in camera upgrades as a major evaluation point when considering an upgrade. It's a prime driver in my considering upgrading from the 12 Pro Max to the 14.

 

[robgendreau]

I was glad to see the upgrades to the photo system, incremental as it is. For me, though, the sat service is the reason to upgrade. For when I'm using the still too short tele lens out it the bush and get too close to the bear, zooming with my feet... 😂 I wonder if "partially eaten" is one of the drop-down quick message options?

 

[sawpits]

It's always about the kids isn't it?

I don't say that mockingly, just ribbing you.

My own kids (18 and 14) are intensely camera shy. They got that from us (my wife and I), two introvert loners who for their own reasons do whatever it takes to avoid having our pictures taken. We have captured the major moments of our kids lives and they've had to suck it up and stand there each time - grudgingly, silently being belligerent throughout the whole ordeal.

Yeah, my family hates getting our pictures taken. I suppose that makes us not pretty average.

That's been me since I was a kid. For whatever reason, I hated having my picture taken and still do many years later. I have never taken a selfie.

 

[aenflex]

My only issue with the direction phone makers are taking nowadays, particularly Apple & Google, is their insane over processing. They have been steadily improving their hardware but have simultaneously not dialed back any of the post-processing that was more suited to older phones.

I've never wanted my phone to be an optical behemoth or to actually replace my DSLR. There is only so much you can do with a chassis this small and you can't cheat physics. iPhones & Pixels should primarily aim to be dependable point-and-shoot cameras, but they have pushed their software correction a tad further than necessary. The fact that this high processing trajectory is the one they seem quite happy to continue on is what concerns me more than anything else.

They need to do a better job at harmoniously marrying the hardware and software. I want to be able to take solid, natural-looking shots without needing RAW mode or using apps like Halide.

THANK YOU.

I hate my 13 pro camera post-processing and the fact that I can’t turn it off. Even with Moment and Halide, I still hate how fiddly it is. If the 14 pm that I ordered isn’t any better, I’ll prowbly do something rash.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

LOL. I've said it many times here, but again, most of my pictures are shots of stuff at restaurants and grocery stores so my wife can make her choice about what she wants me to bring home.

My last dope shot was a pic of a box of Death Wish Coffee Espresso K-cups in my Walmart shopping cart. That got an 'Oh yeah, baby!" from my wife.

I cannot count how many times I’ve done this. This really hit home 😆

 

[Pilot Jones]

THANK YOU.

I hate my 13 pro camera post-processing and the fact that I can’t turn it off. Even with Moment and Halide, I still hate how fiddly it is. If the 14 pm that I ordered isn’t any better, I’ll prowbly do something rash.

Now I'm actually curious as to what you will do if this trend continues on the iPhone 14 line-up as well 😆

 

[eyoungren]

That's been me since I was a kid. For whatever reason, I hated having my picture taken and still do many years later. I have never taken a selfie.

My problem (and also my sister's) is that my dad was FOREVER taking pictures and we were always pushed in to it because it's what he wanted. On vacations he'd come home having shot four or five rolls of film and made us miserable because we'd have to stand there to have our pictures taken.

Once he started doing slides, OMG. We all got roped into looking at them on the carousel projector. Or he'd present a stack of pictures we'd have to look at. We got absolutely zero agency in any of this. And the kicker is that he was never very good at it. It's a wonder though, because at the end of his life he wasn't worrying about seeing any of these pictures he'd taken.

My wife just doesn't like her picture taken, it makes her uncomfortable. Combine all this with her being a loner and me being a loner - and surprise! Kids who also don't like getting their pictures taken!!!

Shocker!

 

[parkds]

I very much value a good camera. The best camera is the camera you have with you when you need it. I use my iPhone to take pictures of my holidays, kids and special moments with my family, so yes, a good camera is very important and I am glad that they are still investing in this department!

This. I also take the approach of “the best camera is the one you have with you.” So I want the best camera that I can easy carry and that I will always have on me.
I have nice camera bodies and glass but I really don’t want to drag them with me on vacations and such. They are big and heavy. I have a small Fuji x100, but it has become just one more thing to carry also.
I almost exclusively now use my iPhone to capture family moments, birthdays, school events, holidays, and trips. Every upgrade to the camera system is welcome and meaningful to me.

 

[Klae17]

Yes but how far do we take that. If you put the best camera why not the best screen to see the photos. At that point just stop making the regular iPhone and only offer the Pro.

You can look at a photo with a better screen, later, such as your MBP or even a future screen 30 years from now.

You cannot go and take the exact same picture with a better camera, at that point in time, in the exact conditions.

This is how far we take it: Put the best cameras in as many phones and hands as possible.

 

[Klae17]

Myself, I'm kind of partial to making phone calls with my phone.

I mean the camera is cool, but being able to call the people I need/want to is more important to me than the camera. If that's all Apple should focus on then why doesn't Apple just turn the iPhone into the iCamera?

I dont see why a camera inhibits you from doing so. Androids can make calls and have poor cameras.