Is Apple neglecting Macs?

[eyedee]

I agree to a point, but I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that Apple are neglecting its Mac range. Things change and Apple have quite sensibly amended its own product range (and the speed at which it is pushing through major overhauls) to better fall in line with consumer trends across the board - both leisure users and professionals.

The re-alligment has led to the end of the standard MacBook range (a sad day for some) and the increase in price and power of its Mac Pro desktops generally aimed at the high end professional video editing market (and a Mac product that some were convinced Apple were going to have completely done away with by now).

Their decision to drop the 17" MacBook Pro (whilst no doubt upsetting some users) was a sensible one imho considering the direction that technology and its users are heading. The 15" MBP Retina mostly does away with any need to carry an overly large and heavier 17" portable. The vast improvement of the quality and resolution output of the 15" screen is more than enough to cater for all manner of professional use and allows for multiple applications to be run simultaneously using multiple windows on screen at the same time. Moreover the time and money invested in producing the overall design of the Retina, in terms of computing power, build quality and physical size, is impressive and goes quite some way to prove that Apple remain committed to their Mac products.

Things change, and Apple are leading some of those changes whilst responding to others. A few years ago I wouldn't entertain the idea of purchasing a MacBook Air due to its (in my earlier opinion) severe limitations in the form of a lack of decent hard drive size and no optical drive. A few years later, and still ahead of the trend, I have replaced my fairly recent Mac Pro desktop with a MBP retina sporting a fairly limited SSD HDD and no optical drive and, already, I wouldn't go back. Apple realised that the future was focused on Cloud based functionality, and they took the risk of designing their Mac products with this in mind. The risk, it seems, is paying off.

To say that Apple are not focusing on their Mac range isn't really fair. The MBPr is a substantial improvement and welcome new addition to the Mac range, which whilst expensive will no doubt influence the forthcoming Mac products over the next couple of years. And considering how powerful it is, it's small too... really small. The new Apple business model may well have led to a slower overhaul of all of its Mac products, but that's business and it hasn't stopped Apple continuing to update and replace its product lines.

I believe that Apple will continue to provide for all its consumers for as long as the company is successful by continuing to release innovative and practical computer products for the Mac faithful, just not necessarily in the order and at the pace that some people expect.

 

[seong]

Guys lets chill out for a sec.
Does any of us think Apple is going to end it's mac lineup ever since Apple I was created back in 1976? No. iPod Classic? Perhaps, but not Mac. Even if Tim Cook decided to neglect Macs, I'm sure Steve Jobs will never let his creation be ignored or discontinued.

End thread? jkjk

 

[MacScott]

Apple has also always had a large base of "computer hobbyists" that like to do more than a tablet or an iOS allows them to do. I am afraid they have been losing some of them for a variety of reasons, I would hate to see that accelerated.

 

[mcnallym]

I wouldn't say that Apple is neglecting the Mac range at the moment. Simply that they don't require as much attention as the iOS devices in Apples plan.

Let me expand on that.

The area of the handheld devices is growing / developing a lot more quickly and these users are a lot more fickle, and looking to change there device. It seems like at least once a week there is some new Tablet or Smartphone launched, so Apple need to put a larger share of the resources into this area, to ensure that don't miss out on it.

Also how many people have gone Mac after buying iPads and iPhones etc, so iOS toys are a great introduction to Apple Products. I personally went from nothing to having an iPhone, then the MBPro, later added a mini, appletv and iPod, and then later an iPad

By comparison the computers aren't changing as often as they don't need too. People who will change the phone, because they are bored with there current handset and want a change will happily keep on using the same old desktop/laptop they have been using for years, providing it still does the job that it needs too.

You also have to look past the individual products at the whole way that Apple is moving.

Apple has found out that it won't survive by being yet another computer company making computers. You only have to look at what almost happened to Apple in the past before striking gold with the iPod/iTunes combination.

Apple is no longer about making Computers or even iOS devices. Instead it has moved in the direction of providing a whole ecosystem around iTunes/iCloud and Media Consumption.

You have iTunes where you can buy/rent your movies / tv programmes etc. You can then either download to your local iTunes machine ( hopefully a Mac ) and then consume on your home network via your Apple TV / other Macs. Alternatively now thanks to the iCloud then you can stream directly from your purchased section on the iTunes Store on your AppleTV/iOS devices, providing this feature is available in your country.

For general web streaming etc then there are apps / plugins available. An example being when accessing the bbc website then quite often get cannot display media message on the video content. However can access with the bbc new app and can then view the video.

It also helps explain the Bluray situation, which I would say more is because Apple wants you to buy iTunes Content, and nothing to do with being a big bag of hurt.

Personally I would advocate that people still have a local iTunes Storage as not all Movies / TV Programmes are available to purchase on iTunes. Also it is not unheard of for content to disappear from iTunes due to changes in ownership. I am not entirely convinced of the PostPC era, and there will still be a need for a local PC/Mac for a lot of people. There are still parts of the plan that need solving clearly.

This doesn't require Apple to be putting out new Mac's all the time, but can deliver new Macs as Apple see's the need too, as opposed to changing just because they can.

The laptops get more attention then the desktops do for instance. A lot of people on this forum have replaced 2006 Mac Pro's with top end iMacs, from reading various threads. Clearly there isn't the same need for the Mac Pro as there was 6 years ago with the increase in the performance of the mainstream Macs. So from Apples perspective then do they need to put as much effort ( you could say any these days ) into the Mac Pro line.

Movie Creation for most home users will be fine on a MBPro or iMac, iOS development does not require a Mac Pro. A lot of people are finding MBPro's and iMac's for Photo Editing are OK. Please note that I have said most and a lot. There will always be exceptions and I am perfectly aware that most peoples needs or my individual needs will not meet everyones needs.

 

[palmharbor]

Apple Computes changed

I have a iMac I got in 2000. It works fine...absolutely reliable.
I am on my third mac mini in four years (thank God for Apple Care Insurance)
Now with the latest 10.8.2 the SuperDrive no longer works. Spent 6 hours to download a new os that was installed and instead of getting 10.8 which works,
I got 10.8.2 all over again,despite assurances from A.Care that it would be 10.8. Clearly before they released this .2 update they did not bother to check it out...too busy with more apps to upload more pictures to Facabook, I guess.
Apple has become Microsoft. This problem could have been totally avoided by offering 10.8 on a DVD WITHOUT THE DAMN UPDATE...but no.

 

[maflynn]

Apple's focus these past few years has been on products (and services) other then their Macs. Given the high profit margins that those products enjoy, it makes sense. Other then the MBP getting some love this year I think not seeing any iMac/mini/Mac Pro updates is a shame. The iMac refresh is long over due and the state of the Mac Pro computer is ludicrous - it makes no sense to spend so much money on a computer that has the appearance of apple abandoning that sector.

 

[Plutonius]

Apple is a business and it puts its resources where it can earn the most profit. I would also like updated Mac hardware but look at the earnings report and you will see why the Mac is a lower priority.The Mac will be updated but not nearly as often as the IOS devices (The exception will be the Touch. It got an update for this year but it will be a long time before you see another major Touch upgrade).

 

[roadbloc]

It is clear from Apple's keynotes that they are betting big on this apparent Post-PC era. Not convinced of it myself, I like my PCs. But it is hardly surprising they're not paying much attention to Macs when the majority of their profits come from Post-PC devices.

 

[vpro]

Exactly they create but they are not inclusive.

Quick & short answer: yes.

(they are following a market they created)

my poetic attempt at a response:


apple is beating to the rhythm of it's own drum these days

i can't seem to get into the groove of 2012

apple does not allow for people to innovate with them
rather they plough away like mad inventors on crack
leaving everyone in the silvery dust and debris

with no consideration any longer for the loyal pro-sumers or the market
they blaze high standard trails that developers have to spend the next 3 years
catching up to

they should do better at synchronizing apps and externals
before anything is released so that pro-sumers can immediately work
and better create with the new technology
rather than the current trend where we have to wait and wait for apps and externals to become available

customizability in apple is only limited to want they expect you to afford


(the late 2011 17 inch MacBook Pro will always be my beauty and workhorse)

 

[skaertus]

The current designs aren't broken, and changing them costs money.


Spec updates are fine. They could be a little more regular in some cases (Mac Pro, Mac Mini), but designing a shiny new case and re-tooling their factories "just because" is a waste of time.

It may be expensive. But still, Apple doesn't sell them cheap. It could afford to spend a few dollars making them better.

Also - iWork has certainly been getting updates. No official new version, but it is being updated through software update.

In fact, if you look at those updates, there is no new feature added in years. These updates are just to keep up with the OS. The last update, for instance, was just to support retina displays. No new feature.

Of course there is more focus on iOS devices. This is where the bulk of the money is, and most people don't really need a computer. Pre iPad/tablet, people bought a computer to do stuff they can now do on a tablet without worrying about viruses, etc. Parents, grandparets, people not nerds - they want Facebook, web, online banking, email and video calls. The tablet can do all of that quite happily.

So, that's the point, that Apple is neglecting Macs in favour of iOS devices...

The laptop/desktop hardware problem is more or less "solved". There isn't a huge amount do be done other than higher res displays (see MBP-R) and faster cpu/more ram, which gets delivered with each spec bump.

What would you have them do? Change the design just to make it look different? I quite like the fact that the design hasn't changed.

Not just different, but better. Regular changes in design may be necessary to keep up with technical innovations -- not to waste time or spend money.

In addition, Apple hasn't upated the iMac and the Mac Mini in over a year. It would have costed very little to put an Ivy Bridge processor on these computers. Yet, Apple didn't do it. Not even a spec bump.

 

[jaw04005]

They've neglected their Mac desktop line, but the notebook line gets updated fairly frequently.

I wish they would go back to updating all the Mac lines 2x per year like they were doing in the 2006-2009 era.

 

[skaertus]

What about Apple NOT throwing away stockholders' investments into things that MIGHT appeal to a tiny subset of their customer base?

Well, that might be the point. Assuming that, Apple IS neglecting the Mac.

Ahn, we're not talking about stockholders' investment here. It's money that could have been distributed to the stockholders, but which Apple keeps in the bank instead.

Who is going to buy a $3000 laptop that's too big to take anywhere? What functionality does Apple TV provide that isn't already provided by iTunes and other Apps? How do you expect them to make 2 TB of memory wafer thin? Who on earth NEEDS 2 TB of memory even if they could afford it? Who wants or needs a CD drive.

Fact is, they just did a major refresh of the Mac laptops by introducing the Retina - a machine that simply has no competition. And it's likely to be followed next year with a major refresh of the Air line.

They did a major refresh indeed. After almost four years without a refresh, Apple finally redesigned one of the laptops models, and raised the price of it. Apple redesigns the iPhone quite frequently: it got a retina display, a larger screen, etc. But the price remains the same. However, a much-needed redesign in the MacBook Pro line came accompanied of a hefty pricetag.

While there is one model (which costs a fortune and which few users could buy) that has no competition, all the others have plenty of competitors.

 

[skaertus]

I agree to a point, but I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that Apple are neglecting its Mac range. Things change and Apple have quite sensibly amended its own product range (and the speed at which it is pushing through major overhauls) to better fall in line with consumer trends across the board - both leisure users and professionals.

Not exactly like that. Apple is not aligning itself to the expectations of the consumer base. Apple is creating these trends and is inventing this need to realign because it wants tablets -- not laptops -- to take over the world. And the reason is simple: in the tablets department, Apple has no competition. Nobody talked about tablets, which were completely dead in the water, before Apple released the iPad.

The re-alligment has led to the end of the standard MacBook range (a sad day for some) and the increase in price and power of its Mac Pro desktops generally aimed at the high end professional video editing market (and a Mac product that some were convinced Apple were going to have completely done away with by now).

Their decision to drop the 17" MacBook Pro (whilst no doubt upsetting some users) was a sensible one imho considering the direction that technology and its users are heading. The 15" MBP Retina mostly does away with any need to carry an overly large and heavier 17" portable. The vast improvement of the quality and resolution output of the 15" screen is more than enough to cater for all manner of professional use and allows for multiple applications to be run simultaneously using multiple windows on screen at the same time. Moreover the time and money invested in producing the overall design of the Retina, in terms of computing power, build quality and physical size, is impressive and goes quite some way to prove that Apple remain committed to their Mac products.

The overall design of the retina MacBook Pro is really impressive. But if we look at it, the technology was probably all -- or nearly all -- already there. Retina displays have been around since 2010, and it was improved when Apple released the new iPad earlier this year. Not a big deal in having them in a MacBook after all of this. SSD drives are now popular. Apple just took away the optical disk drive, made the Mac thinner and used the extra space to accomodate more battery. Build quality is indeed very good, but not a far cry from the previous MacBook Pro. The unibody aluminium design is still there. The trackpad remains the same. And the keyboard didn't get a redesign.

And Apple is charging a premium over the laptop because of the redesign. The design of the iPhone 5 is also impressive, but the price remains very much the same as the previous generation.

Things change, and Apple are leading some of those changes whilst responding to others. A few years ago I wouldn't entertain the idea of purchasing a MacBook Air due to its (in my earlier opinion) severe limitations in the form of a lack of decent hard drive size and no optical drive. A few years later, and still ahead of the trend, I have replaced my fairly recent Mac Pro desktop with a MBP retina sporting a fairly limited SSD HDD and no optical drive and, already, I wouldn't go back. Apple realised that the future was focused on Cloud based functionality, and they took the risk of designing their Mac products with this in mind. The risk, it seems, is paying off.

The MacBook Air remained pretty much unchaged since the last redesign in 2010. Of course it got spec bumps, but not enough. A new wave of ultrabooks is coming, and some of them have impressive features that can leave the MacBook Air behind.

To say that Apple are not focusing on their Mac range isn't really fair. The MBPr is a substantial improvement and welcome new addition to the Mac range, which whilst expensive will no doubt influence the forthcoming Mac products over the next couple of years. And considering how powerful it is, it's small too... really small. The new Apple business model may well have led to a slower overhaul of all of its Mac products, but that's business and it hasn't stopped Apple continuing to update and replace its product lines.

I believe that Apple will continue to provide for all its consumers for as long as the company is successful by continuing to release innovative and practical computer products for the Mac faithful, just not necessarily in the order and at the pace that some people expect.

And there you go: Apple slowed the pace of innovations on the Mac line. It shouldn't have. I know that real business is now the iOS devices. But the Mac line has also experienced growth, so there is no reason for Apple to reduce the budget of development in this area. Apple doesn't have to accomodate its budget to the iOS devices instead of Macs. The budget can simply grow larger, because Apple is now a much larger and more profitable company than it was 5 or 10 years ago. That's how business work. And it works like that because the company has to keep competitive.

 

[JoeG4]

I think they kinda are.

The Mac Pro hasn't had an update and they've been ignoring the number one request for that machine since the day it came out (a lower end model). I dunno about you guys, but tons of people here asked for that.

they also haven't stuck an IPS screen in any laptop except the rMBP - meanwhile the MBA 13" competitors have them.. some even 1080p. I don't need a 2560x1440 13".. but IPS would be nice.

seems like some neglect to me. The funny thing is that Apple is what.. the richest tech company in the industry right now by a long shot, and they should be able to afford more engineers and R&D guys than all of the other companies in the industry...

yet they still act like they're capable of only one task at a time... including suing other companies. it's kinda lame.. here we'll spend 6 months making THE NEW IPHONE! Now we're busy suing everyone else.. in another 6 months the new mac pro will come out AND NOTHING ELSE!!!!

Because we can!

Ok I'm exaggerating, but please some other companies come and give Tim Cook his humble pie because I'm bored.

 

[skaertus]

Apple's focus these past few years has been on products (and services) other then their Macs. Given the high profit margins that those products enjoy, it makes sense. Other then the MBP getting some love this year I think not seeing any iMac/mini/Mac Pro updates is a shame. The iMac refresh is long over due and the state of the Mac Pro computer is ludicrous - it makes no sense to spend so much money on a computer that has the appearance of apple abandoning that sector.

I agree with you.

I would not spend so much money on an iMac, as the computer doesn't get an update in more than a year.

----------

Apple is a business and it puts its resources where it can earn the most profit. I would also like updated Mac hardware but look at the earnings report and you will see why the Mac is a lower priority.The Mac will be updated but not nearly as often as the IOS devices (The exception will be the Touch. It got an update for this year but it will be a long time before you see another major Touch upgrade).

"Puts its resources". Well, Apple has much more resources now than it had 5 years ago. The Mac line experience growth during these years. It became more profitable. It makes sense to put more -- not less -- resources on the development of the Macs. It doesn't mean that there will be less resources to be put in the iOS devices. Apple should put even more resources in the development of the iOS devices, but this money doesn't have to come from the Mac department. Apple has more than 100 billion in cash. If it is growing (and it is), it should have more money to invest in its own technology to keep up with the leadership.

 

[Carl Sagan]

Apples and oranges, computers are a very mature product so the rate of change isn't possible to compare or compete with a much younger mobile offering...

 

[APlotdevice]

Now try to pick a tablet and write a letter on it. Hard, isn't it? Then try to write an article. Or a book or a dissertation. Can you do it? Can you really live without a keyboard?

Two words: Bluetooth keyboard.

And before you say "if you're going to use a keyboard then why not just get a notebook?", let me point out that the keyboard is only there when one wants it to be. When one simply wants to use the tablet all by itself they can stow the keyboard in their bag or even just leave it at home.

 

[skaertus]

Two words: Bluetooth keyboard.

And before you say "if you're going to use a keyboard then why not just get a notebook?", let me point out that the keyboard is only there when one wants it to be. When one simply wants to use the tablet all by itself they can stow the keyboard in their bag or even just leave it at home.

You could use a keyboard with the iPad or any other tablet. But that solves the problem of writing a letter. Not a book or a dissertation, for instance. The iPad doesn't do real multi-tasking. I can't think of using the iPad for a long period of time to write something really complicated. It's meant for simple tasks.

 

[ericmooreart]

I gave up on Apple and Macs a while ago. I waited and waited for new Sandy Bridge towers. Nothing. So I built a kick ass Hackentosh for under 1000$.

I purchased a Lenovo Thinkpad for my daughter after Apple decided to kill the Macbook line. She had the white macbook for years. The New Macbook Air didn't meet the storage space requirements she needed. (tones of iTunes), and a MacPro was overkill. I could have bought 3 thinkpads for the price of 1.

I'm convinced apple doesn't care. They make ton on IOS so why should they.

 

[skaertus]

I gave up on Apple and Macs a while ago. I waited and waited for new Sandy Bridge towers. Nothing. So I built a kick ass Hackentosh for under 1000$.

I purchased a Lenovo Thinkpad for my daughter after Apple decided to kill the Macbook line. She had the white macbook for years. The New Macbook Air didn't meet the storage space requirements she needed. (tones of iTunes), and a MacPro was overkill. I could have bought 3 thinkpads for the price of 1.

I'm convinced apple doesn't care. They make ton on IOS so why should they.

I'm still not convinced that my next computer will be a Mac.

 

[throAU]

Not just different, but better. Regular changes in design may be necessary to keep up with technical innovations -- not to waste time or spend money.

In addition, Apple hasn't upated the iMac and the Mac Mini in over a year. It would have costed very little to put an Ivy Bridge processor on these computers. Yet, Apple didn't do it. Not even a spec bump.

The Macbook pro design is still better than anything else on the market in terms of aesthetics, feel of the components and quality of build. The internal components are good enough.

I for one would rather have the current machine I have (Sandy Bridge) than some cheap ****** PC-like box that they update every 6 months just to keep it "new" - even if it meant i could give up my current machine and swap it for something like that with ivy bridge for free.


What would you have them do? What is wrong with the current design?


Ivy Bridge vs Sandy bridge is mostly about GPU. The iMac doesn't use the inbuilt GPU. Mac mini - sure, that is old hat and needs either a price drop or replacement, but again there's not a lot of competition out there.

----------

They can make a much smaller case for the Mac Pro.

It's a beautiful design and works great, but it's old. They can fit more in a smaller case.

Being small IS NOT THE POINT of a mac pro.

You want a case large enough to cool down workstation components like Xeons and GPUs. You want enough space for long PCI cards, multiple drive bays, and to do RAID.

You need space for a large board with plenty of RAM slots. You want plenty of space to make it easy to work on, so the user can swap components.

If you want a smaller enclosure, buy an iMac??



Just because the Mac pro doesn't suit your desire for a smaller case, doesn't mean the design is "neglected".

 

[skaertus]

The Macbook pro design is still better than anything else on the market in terms of aesthetics, feel of the components and quality of build. The internal components are good enough.

I for one would rather have the current machine I have (Sandy Bridge) than some cheap ****** PC-like box that they update every 6 months just to keep it "new" - even if it meant i could give up my current machine and swap it for something like that with ivy bridge for free.

What would you have them do? What is wrong with the current design?

Nothing is particularly wrong with the design. However, technology evolves, and allows for a more efficient design from every aspect.

The design of the Macs is still good, but not better than anything else on the market. And "good enough" is not a parameter. A PC may be "good enough", for half of the price of the Mac.

Ivy Bridge vs Sandy bridge is mostly about GPU. The iMac doesn't use the inbuilt GPU. Mac mini - sure, that is old hat and needs either a price drop or replacement, but again there's not a lot of competition out there.

The iMac could benefit from an Ivy Bridge CPU, which is faster than Sandy Bridge, although not by a large margin. And it could also have a better GPU -- an AMD series 7000 instead of 6000.

Being small IS NOT THE POINT of a mac pro.

You want a case large enough to cool down workstation components like Xeons and GPUs. You want enough space for long PCI cards, multiple drive bays, and to do RAID.

You need space for a large board with plenty of RAM slots. You want plenty of space to make it easy to work on, so the user can swap components.

If you want a smaller enclosure, buy an iMac??

Just because the Mac pro doesn't suit your desire for a smaller case, doesn't mean the design is "neglected".

No, but if a design is a carryover from years and years, then yes, it is neglected.

Macs are not perfect, they are far from being perfect. For the price Apple charges, it should update and redesign them more frequently.

As I said, I may not buy a Mac as my next computer. Not because of the price, but because I feel Windows laptops are delivering a better experience for what I want.

 

[throAU]

No, but if a design is a carryover from years and years, then yes, it is neglected.

Macs are not perfect, they are far from being perfect. For the price Apple charges, it should update and redesign them more frequently.

As I said, I may not buy a Mac as my next computer. Not because of the price, but because I feel Windows laptops are delivering a better experience for what I want.

The wheel has been around for years and years and hasn't been changed drastically because it works.

Front page - apple are working on new iMacs apparently. Until you have a BETTER design, theres no point tweaking for the sake of it.


You evidently haven't tried to use the majority of PC laptops out there. I challenge you to do so, without resorting to an external keyboard and mouse.

The trackpads are universally crap, and the keyboards are inferior. They're all 16x9 screens rather than 16x10 in the macbook pros or 13" airs, which is also inferior (imho).

I deal with PC laptops daily at work and to be honest I'd rather pay 1.5x for the same spec in a macbook because they aren't annoying to use due to the crappy input devices and 16x9 screens.

I can actually use my macbook pro as a laptop, without lugging a mouse and sometimes keyboard around with me. I tried to do that with my elitebook and various dells at work, and it drove me nuts within a week. If i have to carry input peripherals with me for with a "portable" machine, what's the point.

 

[KnightWRX]

Front page - apple are working on new iMacs apparently. Until you have a BETTER design, theres no point tweaking for the sake of it.

Yes there is, offering value for the dollar of consumer. As this point, they are selling yesteryears technology (CPUs, GPUs, etc..) at today's prices. At least a refresh of the specs (I dunno why they didn't do Ivy Bridge accross the line and at least bring the GPUs up to 2012 standards, USB3 on all Macs...) would give consumers incentives to move a few extra units.

 

[G51989]

Steve Jobs said himself that Apple is focusing on a post PC erra. Tablets are the future my friend.

Not for people who do real work, A tablet cannot replace a laptop or desktop for serious performance or productivety.